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On Ears, Grief, and a Better PvP
Beatnik59
Member UncommonPosts: 2,413
Imagine you are a new enthusiastic player in an MMORPG. You craft your character with care, choose the skills you want, and look forward to action, adventure, and glory.
Let’s say you wander out, and find yourself in a player versus player conflict. You put up the best fight you can muster, but you get killed. Maybe you lose some gold, or an item. You also lose something else.
An ear.
It is something in this hypothetical game that every player who kills another recieves as a reward for killing an opponent.
Now an ear may not have much value in terms of playability. Ears by themselves aren’t used to craft things, and they can’t be sold. Think of an ear in Diablo II, or a corpse in EVE Online. Getting a bagfull of ears, if anything, takes up valuable space that can be used for important things.
But an ear does have your character’s name. It has the date of death. It is in the possession of another player, and can be generated in no other way than to be killed in PvP. It is, in a sense, a reminder and an eternal symbol of a person’s incompetence. For these reasons, one might say an ear is the most valuable item of all. We talk about how a player “owns” somebody or another. Ears, corpses, and other trophies are the epitomy of this concept.
Every day here at MMORPG.com, we see threads and articles about player versus player, or PvP, content. We wonder how we can encourage more players to do it. We also wonder about community, power players, casuals, grief play, and professionalized clans. We wonder why so many use voice programs, macros, eBay sales, balance, and “flavor of the month” PvP templates. We wonder why it seems to be low on the list of priorities for many developers.
We may never be able to solve all these problems. But the road to solving these problems, I would argue, starts with the ear.
The taking of a trophy from the body of an opponent was common in many tribal societies. Then again, it isn’t like the defeated opponent really had to live with the shame of being “owned.” Then again, war in reality has always been a high stakes affair. But with the advent of professional armies, trophy taking was considered to be against established principles of warfare.
There are good reasons for this. The desecration of dead opponents raises the stakes considerably, to the point where any sort of compromise or resolution is beyond hope. It is a statement by one side to another of, “look how we can insult you and how we view you.” It causes a reaction on a level that goes beyond the rational, and escalates the conflict in a way that is no longer controllable.
At this point you may be saying to yourselves, “well if it sustains the conflict and provides more of an incentive to PvP, isn’t that good?” It seems as if this is the thought that most developers who have created things such as ears and corpses hold when attepting to explain the value of them. The thought is that it creates vibrant and healthy PvP, because there is personal honor at stake. Developers know all too well that nobody likes to have part of their character’s corpse in another player’s war chest.
However, this logic is just wrong on so many levels. Its wrong, because there are numerous examples one can point to in reality that show that the taking of war trophies from a corpse makes conflict degenerate into something not very interesting or compelling.
In some cases, the offended party says, “it was a mistake to ever fight here in the first place.” They wonder exactly why they are there, and wonder why they had to subject themselves, and their people, to such savages. In other cases, the offended party says, “let us devote ourselves to making them suffer worse than we are suffering.” They see the dishonor, and become more savage, cold, and inhuman than the opponent.
Neither reaction is healthy for online games. Subscribers to games generally do not want their defeats to be displayed for all to see, know, and ridicule. As a result, they either stay away from PvP entirely, or if they lose in PvP and see their character’s name or death trophy displayed, they leave, and find something else that does not promise fun at the expense of one’s dignity. Items can be replaced. So can virtual wealth. But an ear that symbolizes incompetence is something that goes beyond fun into something that dehumanizes the player on both sides.
Ears and death trophies have nothing really but symbolic value, but what they symbolize is something quite important. Therefore, it is no wonder why games that have them become hotbeds of flame-baiting, underhandedness, shouting, and greif. An ear by any measure is the hardest thing to lose, and so every advantage, whether sporting or not, is used to gather as many ears as possible, and keep all the ears of your friends attached.
When honor and prowress can be measured in how many people have your ear, the players are compelled to do anything and everything to keep their ears, and avenge the ones that display them. Therefore, buying gold or weapons on eBay is worth the risk and expense. Exploits become more common, because an ear doesn’t ever say whether the person who possesses it gained it by an exploit or imbalance.
Roleplay takes a hit, because non-roleplayers are dictating the story development of another player in a way that cannot simply be dismissed to the server community.
The most uber template or class becomes the norm, because its ability to gain ears from opponents gives the player empirical proof of how many players he bested and degraded. Players in your guilds become more suspicious, more seriously minded, and more intolerant of failings. When items or virtual wealth is at stake, mistakes can always be replaced. But when you lose an ear to someone else because your game allies did not perform well, it takes on a much more serious, and inappropriate tone.
If we want to solve the “PvP problem,” we can go a long way by first getting rid of ears, corpses, and all those death trophies. First, we don’t need them for good PvP. The Star Wars Galaxies at launch in 2003 had good PvP, alongside a good community, and diverse templates. Much later, when the force ranking system and PvP ratings were introduced, the community declined in quality. Secondly, death trophies do not give people an incentive to PvP, but rather, an incentive to cancel. Finally, death trophies do not encourage good PvP, but rather, unhealthy PvP where exploits, grief, and power play rules the day.
Now I know this post is going to get flamed by those who think that by making PvP more balanced, more rewarding, more inclusive, and more realistic, we can entice more people to PvP, and we can keep the ears. However, balance issues that can normally be overlooked are much more serious when a symbolic thing like an ear is at stake. Rewards are also quite insignificant when compared to producing a mark of incompetence, like an ear. Better to be poor, and have never produced an ear, than be wealthy, and everybody having your ear. When ears are at stake, people do not jump in, because they know they can lose too much in the name of something that was supposed to be fun. And as far as realism is concerned, the mutilation of corpses is done by only the most savage, heinous, and frightening warzones. This feature is certainly not something we play these games to experience.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Comments
Hmm, not sure why nobody's responding. Perhaps because your post is relatively long (sad, I know) and perhaps because others have had the same experience I've had regarding trophies and pvp. Specifically, almost none worth mentioning.
I've seen honourable and dishonourable conduct in an out of pvp in many different games, as well as in the same game. I've played a lot of MMOs without trophies, which both did and did not have bad communities or "savage" pvp. In those that did have trophies, I've never seen any indication of them being a major motivation in anything, with very few even collecting them. I can't even think of Diablo 2's multiplayer as having been an exception, since there are far better reasons why that community became rotten to the core, and in many matters inside and outside of the very limited pvp that game offered (along with potential ears).
In other words, I have no idea what you're talking about. Whatever evidence you've seen about trophies and such, I apparently haven't seen it.
I just read your entire post, and I can't help but noticing how 'right' you really are... However, let's change the situation a bit. Let's talk about a game that's partly PVP, partly normal, PVP is allowed, but only in a PVP zone called The Wilderness. Yes, for all ye who ask, I do mean Runescape...
Long before I had nice stuff, I was a n00b amongst the high-levels... And at some time someone invited me to go to the Wilderness cause he wanted to show me something, when we arrived at a very high -x zone in the Wilderness. He tried to kill me, I saw my chance, I ran... I ran like hell to be honest, cause I knew if i would die, I'd lose that Bronze sword, or this Bronze chainmail torso, that i spend such a hard time mining for...
Many levels later i found myself doing nasty stuff that's alike, just to have fun, killing lower levels because of boreness, not for the loot... However, noone is forced to go into the Wilderness... I always did quests and experienced the fun outside of The PVP Zone, this way i couldn't lose an 'ear' (referring to your words)
After I died in the Wilderness, i never bought an expensive armor again, I just wore some clothes, not even a good sword but a mere staff, and i trained Magic a bit... I looked like a Fransiscian Monk, but I liked this way of playing, because it was realistic... Only Knights with blue veigns had a chance to buy an armor in the Middle-Ages, or very rich traders...
Now aside from the fact that after reading this you'll probably think that i've lost my mind, but I agree that new MMORPGS, common MMORPGS or even older ones, leave a bad taste after getting killed from PVP Combat... However, how much fun didn't you have when you won that awesome blade in UO, because you just killed someone? These higher stakes really made it more fun (I never played UO neverethless, but I've read lots of posts about it).
I find myself wondering now... Should we make it possible to lose more than an 'ear' with PVP combat? Or should it be only your dignity?
In my opinion they should make it more realistic,... In Medieval times they didn't just kill people on sight like on PVP servers, but people were somehow friendly... If you had a problem, the guards took care of it (of course bribing them would of been an option).
If you wanted to fight, there was an arena which you were able to enter at your own risk.
This is where common MMORPGS like WoW screw it up, by allowing one alliance to kill another when they meet, thereby making only one build (or one template) the real build for pvp.
I fear that we need a third person to clarify things up a bit, cause honestly, I can't see the wood beneath the trees anymore...
Jackall
P.S. I'm Belgian and underaged so don't even bother listing all the typo's
I decide who lives or who dies!
I decide who lives or who dies!
You are right.
Not everyone becomes "ear hungry" after losing an ear.
Some quit the game altogether. Others play it safe, basically guaranteeing they don't lose another ear. Others respec, or pick up a FOTM, so they don't lose it. Some just go overboard and become harassers to gain back the ear that was lost through nasty means, because being "owned" by a player in a literal sense is a rather nasty concept.
How does that help make PvP in MMORPGs better?
I mean, what does it tell you when everyone and your grandmother has your ear in their stash? It means there isn't much worth doing except quit, because everyone has proof of your suckage.
I don't see how any of this creates better PvP. If we want to give an incentive to do well in PvP, there are better ways of doing it than producing a unique and degrading item that shows how much of a loser you are. Maybe looting items that the defeated equipped, or getting a severe death penalty in terms of XP loss, or financial loss.
You see, those things can be regained, they can be regained by doing better in PvP, and so it makes more people PvP. But an ear? Or a corpse? Those things serve no purpose other than to humiliate the loser, and who goes into PvP just to end up in some twink's ear sack?
I think the best PvP is the PvP that is pursued. People don't pursue PvP when you become an object to be ridiculed when you lose. If more people would PvP if we didn't have death trophies, and less non-PvPers would have an issue with it, isn't it worth it? I mean, it ain't like you FFA PvP guys have much support in the industry and from other players. If keeping our ears is going to get good PvP in our games, isn't it worth taking a look at?
Death trophies make balance a much more salient issue, because an ear or a corpse doesn't care if you are an FOTM, or a gimped class. Get rid of the death trophies, and we'll be able to deal with imbalances, and specialized options.
Death trophies make exploits all that much worse. Because when you are sitting in a haxx0rz sack, the corpse doesn't say if he used a hack, or earned it. Get rid of death trophies, and hacks and sploits won't cause as much of a problem.
I see no evidence that death trophies make for a better PvP game. The games that have them would be just as good if they didn't have them, and would probably be much better received, played, and pursued. So then why have them? To keep people away from the game? To make people who actually try and PvP quit?
Give me some arguments as to how an ear that proves you were owned makes games better.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE