OMG OMG here is comes aww man a steaming pile of crap on this topic. Sorry Gameloading it seems I was right in that some people simply don't read or look at what you type. They see Korean mmo and then take a crap all over it with things that simply aren't true.
Originally posted by Tinybina Yeah the ingame video looked pretty good.. But one thing that struck me that is the same in every KOrean MMORPG ever made was the CLONES.. People look to much alike.. When those 2 warriors (?) were fighting those other two characters (PVP?) they look identical in ever way..
Well unlike the western MMOs, Korean MMOs doesnt have that many races like dwarves, elves and the like.
First off, i rarely see a Korean or Asian MMORPG, where people can customize there armor. Most of the time, you gain, or buy a armor as one set. No mixing helmets, chest armor, leg armor etc. Now, i do understand that Asian MMOPRG's are popular, and the need to a clone setting/real to limit the amount of bandwidth used. Its a lot more easy to send $armor = 101, then a array of all the armor pieces. Same with the character customizing. Most are pure clones. Friend of mine is a L2 addict, and while most character do look gorgias, they are basically clones. Disable name tags, and you can't tell anybody from each other.
Most Asian MMORPG's that get translated are a level/grind feast. End of story. I have yet to see a 3d Asian MMORPG, that does not have both points told above.
Now, while it may be true, that there may be more, hell, Old School Ultima Online type games out there, whats the bloody point if they are in Korean, Japanese, Chinese. No offence, but the few bits of Japanese that i know, are NOT going to cut it in playing a MMORPG. So the fact that the Asian market is bigger, and not so level/grid like, is again a no argument if those games are not released to the general public.
This has the effect, that Asian mmorpg's look great to the western people, but there is a large perception that most Asian MMORPG's are nothing less then zombie/level/robot/grid games. And as long as those other games that do not rely on levels/grid, get translate, that will not change. And all the yelling how people are baka to not see it, will not help.
And to put it bluntly, release those fucking not so clone/level/zombie games in English, and then lets talk. But for now, all that are available are just the same as most of the western one's. A wast of time, unless you like to do the same task over & over again, for the so called "level". O and do not worry, i'm just as critical on western games as i am on Asian ones. And that quote on page 1, about how Aion will not have a level system, but something else... *kuch* Reminds me all to familiar, how SWO was also not a "level" system. While in reality, if you looked past the basic interface, you fond a almost identical system to any leveling system. Right down to the xp's, and leveling of that "skill set".
Ho well... Maybe i'm just to darn critical, but i have not see many MMORPG's the last few years that are not all designed around that same basic EQ pattern. Asian, European, etc. Some try to hide it like SWO, but its still there. True skill freedom is rare.
Originally posted by Arqentus To answer a few things:
First off, i rarely see a Korean or Asian MMORPG, where people can customize there armor. Most of the time, you gain, or buy a armor as one set. No mixing helmets, chest armor, leg armor etc. Now, i do understand that Asian MMOPRG's are popular, and the need to a clone setting/real to limit the amount of bandwidth used. Its a lot more easy to send $armor = 101, then a array of all the armor pieces. Same with the character customizing. Most are pure clones. Friend of mine is a L2 addict, and while most character do look gorgias, they are basically clones. Disable name tags, and you can't tell anybody from each other.
Most Asian MMORPG's that get translated are a level/grind feast. End of story. I have yet to see a 3d Asian MMORPG, that does not have both points told above.
Now, while it may be true, that there may be more, hell, Old School Ultima Online type games out there, whats the bloody point if they are in Korean, Japanese, Chinese. No offence, but the few bits of Japanese that i know, are NOT going to cut it in playing a MMORPG. So the fact that the Asian market is bigger, and not so level/grid like, is again a no argument if those games are not released to the general public.
This has the effect, that Asian mmorpg's look great to the western people, but there is a large perception that most Asian MMORPG's are nothing less then zombie/level/robot/grid games. And as long as those other games that do not rely on levels/grid, get translate, that will not change. And all the yelling how people are baka to not see it, will not help.
And to put it bluntly, release those fucking not so clone/level/zombie games in English, and then lets talk. But for now, all that are available are just the same as most of the western one's. A wast of time, unless you like to do the same task over & over again, for the so called "level". O and do not worry, i'm just as critical on western games as i am on Asian ones. And that quote on page 1, about how Aion will not have a level system, but something else... *kuch* Reminds me all to familiar, how SWO was also not a "level" system. While in reality, if you looked past the basic interface, you fond a almost identical system to any leveling system. Right down to the xp's, and leveling of that "skill set".
Ho well... Maybe i'm just to darn critical, but i have not see many MMORPG's the last few years that are not all designed around that same basic EQ pattern. Asian, European, etc. Some try to hide it like SWO, but its still there. True skill freedom is rare.
And true playing freedom is even rarer.
Although I disagree with you on your assesment of the Asian / West games (read my stuff farther back) Western games are no better at all then big Asian release games, they just put the grind somewhere else and fool you by loading you up on an overwhelming amount of idiot task.
I'm pretty suprised at how well WoW does in the Asian market. I hope Asian game designers don't try to make their games to simple because of WoW's success.
plain & simple: because wow endgame is a grindfest (items & rep for items).
asian mmorpgs ARE grinds, not because they are worse than western games but because they are done by EASTERN developers. these developers cater the different cultural habit asian markets have. different ppl like different games (and gamestyles). take lineage 2 for example: done by eastern devs. it got some western influences, but in its core its a grind. the real game starts at the endgame. western ppl tolerate the grind because it's only the way to the endgame (which is, tbh, WAY above the average asian mmorpg). or FF: another high quality game, and again a grind. btw, I've heard most wow players are from the eastern market (~2/3).. interesting, isn't it ?
eve just started beta in china. I wonder how many ppl will play the retail since it's the TOTAL opposite of the usual asian gameplay (Im not impliing anything, I'm just curious ).
Originally posted by LeGray I'm pretty suprised at how well WoW does in the Asian market. I hope Asian game designers don't try to make their games to simple because of WoW's success. plain & simple: because wow endgame is a grindfest (items & rep for items). asian mmorpgs ARE grinds, not because they are worse than western games but because they are done by EASTERN developers. these developers cater the different cultural habit asian markets have. different ppl like different games (and gamestyles). take lineage 2 for example: done by eastern devs. it got some western influences, but in its core its a grind. the real game starts at the endgame. western ppl tolerate the grind because it's only the way to the endgame (which is, tbh, WAY above the average asian mmorpg). or FF: another high quality game, and again a grind. btw, I've heard most wow players are from the eastern market (~2/3).. interesting, isn't it ? eve just started beta in china. I wonder how many ppl will play the retail since it's the TOTAL opposite of the usual asian gameplay (Im not impliing anything, I'm just curious ). btw, no one has mentioned spellborn yet
Give me a popular Western game where you don't grind.
Hehe, as usual i'm not impressed. There's hundreds of Asian mmo's out there, and i can easily say that i've played a huge amount of them, and yet most of em offer very little depht "All in one so to speak". I'll say this with a smile on my lips, crap !!!. Bring on the fire.
Originally posted by Xzaro Originally posted by LeGray I'm pretty suprised at how well WoW does in the Asian market. I hope Asian game designers don't try to make their games to simple because of WoW's success. plain & simple: because wow endgame is a grindfest (items & rep for items). asian mmorpgs ARE grinds, not because they are worse than western games but because they are done by EASTERN developers. these developers cater the different cultural habit asian markets have. different ppl like different games (and gamestyles). take lineage 2 for example: done by eastern devs. it got some western influences, but in its core its a grind. the real game starts at the endgame. western ppl tolerate the grind because it's only the way to the endgame (which is, tbh, WAY above the average asian mmorpg). or FF: another high quality game, and again a grind. btw, I've heard most wow players are from the eastern market (~2/3).. interesting, isn't it ? eve just started beta in china. I wonder how many ppl will play the retail since it's the TOTAL opposite of the usual asian gameplay (Im not impliing anything, I'm just curious ). btw, no one has mentioned spellborn yet
Give me a popular Western game where you don't grind.
It's not that you don't grind in western game, it's that in Eastern games the whole point is "Go kill 100 wolves, level up." I can't speak for any game but CoH, but in CoH you aren't arresting thugs to level up, you are arresting thugs to find the warhouse where they are making the dangerious, mutagenic drug, then raiding that wearhouse to take the drug off the streets and then stopping the monster that is a human who war horribly mutated by the drug into a ravid beast. Those are the good western games to me, where there is a grind but it isn't the focos of your attention(psst, there's a reason why I don't play Warcraft )
Originally posted by keiichi2k3 Ragnarok Online, Silkroad Online, Hero Online, RF Online, Mu Online, SEAL online, FlyForFun, ROSE Online, Conquer Online and Lineage all essentially share the same gameplay formula, and that is the undeniable truth. Endless grinding for extremely limited character development and freedom. You play to kill and only to kill, and to attain a few measly points used to strengthen your character by a marginal amount. And by end game, how many skills have you unlocked for your character? And by that point do you even remotely ENJOY playing that character class?
This got me thinking about DAOC, and why it felt better to me. In some ways Hero Online's combat is more entertaining, but that might just be because it's a bit more flashy and non-stop. Mostly, though, DAOC is pure grind, too. There's RVR and crafting, but the vast majority of the time was spent grinding, especially in its early days.
I think it may be that character development made a huge difference. I know my DAOC characters were not unique, but they did feel personalized, both in appearance, and in performance. They didn't feel so cookie-cutter, and that made it more fun for me to see how they'd turn out and perform in the end-game, and it made socializing through them more fun, becuase they were known for the things that made them who they were. The choices I'd made for them, creating thier strengths, weaknesses, and appearance.
In Hero Online, and most other Korean MMOs, it's not like that at all. Character development is much more simplistic and linear. To me, that makes it much more boring. It puts the entire emphasis on levels as the only differentiation from one character to the next, and the only point of playing at all.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
the words:"Ragnarok Online, R.O.S.E Online, and Limited character development" don't fit in one sentence, nu - uh. I am a 2 years old Ragnarok Online veteran and Ragnarok Online is one of the few games that give TRUE character development freedom. no two characters are the same other then look.
OK all I am going to say is that Korean MMO's to me look awsome I love the characters and worlds of them the long game time, Music, feel of the characters and abilitys of them. One thing that is really interesting is that AION if you havent looked up info on it at all is being fully created by BOTH Korean and American game designers so this will be really really interesting. Also the most powerful game engine ever used in an MMO the FARCRY game engine. I have looked in every website about AION and it looks very good to me.
I'll get excited when a good Asian mmo breaks into Western P2P market, as yet there is only really Lineage 2, which gets less numbers than DDO in the Western market last I checked.
Originally posted by Jodando Originally posted by Gameloading
I think many of you will be glad to hear this:
"According to Yong Taek Bae, Associate Producer for NCsoft Seoul, there will be none of the level-grinding which is common in Korean MMOs. Although not fully disclosed at this time, the leveling-up system will be different from what you would normally expect."
Hm... That oughta keep some Korean MMO haters out there quiet.
Then again... people will always find a way to bring a game down. Buncha BABIES they are!
Anyways. I'm glad they're trying to appeal to the Western audience. Like I said before, Koreans are getting a better and better grasp on the MMO industry. Should we watch out or embrace?
Yeah I think that korea may have just now understood how large of a playerbase there is in the states and europe, they are deffinitly getting better at marketing games towards them.
Aion may look good, many korean MMO's do. But like many posters have said, you dont know until you get your hands on it. Personally, that combat system looks a little stale.
"Without funk, is there hope for panda?" -Derivative of Ishmael
Comments
...
*throws his copy of Super Mario Bros. 3 on the ground*
You worthless piece of crap!
Wait, no... what am I talking about... it doesn't surprise me at all.
Hmm...
First off, i rarely see a Korean or Asian MMORPG, where people can customize there armor. Most of the time, you gain, or buy a armor as one set. No mixing helmets, chest armor, leg armor etc. Now, i do understand that Asian MMOPRG's are popular, and the need to a clone setting/real to limit the amount of bandwidth used. Its a lot more easy to send $armor = 101, then a array of all the armor pieces. Same with the character customizing. Most are pure clones. Friend of mine is a L2 addict, and while most character do look gorgias, they are basically clones. Disable name tags, and you can't tell anybody from each other.
Most Asian MMORPG's that get translated are a level/grind feast. End of story. I have yet to see a 3d Asian MMORPG, that does not have both points told above.
Now, while it may be true, that there may be more, hell, Old School Ultima Online type games out there, whats the bloody point if they are in Korean, Japanese, Chinese. No offence, but the few bits of Japanese that i know, are NOT going to cut it in playing a MMORPG. So the fact that the Asian market is bigger, and not so level/grid like, is again a no argument if those games are not released to the general public.
This has the effect, that Asian mmorpg's look great to the western people, but there is a large perception that most Asian MMORPG's are nothing less then zombie/level/robot/grid games. And as long as those other games that do not rely on levels/grid, get translate, that will not change. And all the yelling how people are baka to not see it, will not help.
And to put it bluntly, release those fucking not so clone/level/zombie games in English, and then lets talk. But for now, all that are available are just the same as most of the western one's. A wast of time, unless you like to do the same task over & over again, for the so called "level". O and do not worry, i'm just as critical on western games as i am on Asian ones. And that quote on page 1, about how Aion will not have a level system, but something else... *kuch* Reminds me all to familiar, how SWO was also not a "level" system. While in reality, if you looked past the basic interface, you fond a almost identical system to any leveling system. Right down to the xp's, and leveling of that "skill set".
Ho well... Maybe i'm just to darn critical, but i have not see many MMORPG's the last few years that are not all designed around that same basic EQ pattern. Asian, European, etc. Some try to hide it like SWO, but its still there. True skill freedom is rare.
And true playing freedom is even rarer.
Although I disagree with you on your assesment of the Asian / West games (read my stuff farther back) Western games are no better at all then big Asian release games, they just put the grind somewhere else and fool you by loading you up on an overwhelming amount of idiot task.
I agree 100% with your closing statement.
True skill freedom is rare.
And true playing freedom is even rarer.
Its pretty damn sad isn't it?
I'm pretty suprised at how well WoW does in the Asian market. I hope Asian game designers don't try to make their games to simple because of WoW's success.
plain & simple: because wow endgame is a grindfest (items & rep for items).
asian mmorpgs ARE grinds, not because they are worse than western games but because they are done by EASTERN developers. these developers cater the different cultural habit asian markets have. different ppl like different games (and gamestyles).
take lineage 2 for example: done by eastern devs. it got some western influences, but in its core its a grind. the real game starts at the endgame. western ppl tolerate the grind because it's only the way to the endgame (which is, tbh, WAY above the average asian mmorpg). or FF: another high quality game, and again a grind. btw, I've heard most wow players are from the eastern market (~2/3).. interesting, isn't it ?
eve just started beta in china. I wonder how many ppl will play the retail since it's the TOTAL opposite of the usual asian gameplay (Im not impliing anything, I'm just curious
).
btw, no one has mentioned spellborn yet
I'll say this with a smile on my lips, crap !!!. Bring on the fire.
It's not that you don't grind in western game, it's that in Eastern games the whole point is "Go kill 100 wolves, level up." I can't speak for any game but CoH, but in CoH you aren't arresting thugs to level up, you are arresting thugs to find the warhouse where they are making the dangerious, mutagenic drug, then raiding that wearhouse to take the drug off the streets and then stopping the monster that is a human who war horribly mutated by the drug into a ravid beast. Those are the good western games to me, where there is a grind but it isn't the focos of your attention(psst, there's a reason why I don't play Warcraft
better to me. In some ways Hero Online's combat is more entertaining,
but that might just be because it's a bit more flashy and non-stop.
Mostly, though, DAOC is pure grind, too. There's RVR and crafting, but
the vast majority of the time was spent grinding, especially in its
early days.
I think it may be that character development made a
huge difference. I know my DAOC characters were not unique, but they
did feel personalized, both in appearance, and in performance. They
didn't feel so cookie-cutter, and that made it more fun for me to see
how they'd turn out and perform in the end-game, and it made
socializing through them more fun, becuase they were known for the
things that made them who they were. The choices I'd made for them,
creating thier strengths, weaknesses, and appearance.
In Hero
Online, and most other Korean MMOs, it's not like that at all.
Character development is much more simplistic and linear. To me, that
makes it much more boring. It puts the entire emphasis on levels as
the only differentiation from one character to the next, and the only
point of playing at all.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
Then again... people will always find a way to bring a game down. Buncha BABIES they are!
Anyways. I'm glad they're trying to appeal to the Western audience. Like I said before, Koreans are getting a better and better grasp on the MMO industry. Should we watch out or embrace?
Yeah I think that korea may have just now understood how large of a playerbase there is in the states and europe, they are deffinitly getting better at marketing games towards them.
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I love MMorpgs..
Anyway, I'll be excited in ANY MMORPG when it's released and I can play it.
ArchLord is still awful though.
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