Originally posted by dolanious EVE is an acquired taste for sure. When I first tried the trial I hated it, thought it was lame. Time based skills? Point and click? Slower than molasis? Community is the most jerk-wad of any i've ever seen? Yeah, I hated it all. Then I got bored because there was nothing else for me to play, so I tried it again, really got into it, and subbed. I have been playing since March I think. I really loved EVE for a while, I embrassed it wholly...
But eventually, it does take its tole on you and her flaws begin to show. First of all, I want to clear up any missonceptions for people. EVE is not a true MMORPG. It's a RTS-MMORPG. It's point-and-click repetitativeness will seriously hurt your fingers (this coming from someone who plays alot of FPS mind you).
Time based skills means you will never, ever, ever reach the level of competitive play that the average vetran has....at least, not for a YEAR + or 10 million skillpoints minimum. And that's WITH all the learning skills maxed (as I had), anyone who argues otherwise is plane wrong, and they know it which is why they vehemently deny it so. I think it's pretty rediculious that you have to play a year plus before you can actually begin to enjoy the game as a pvper.
To top it off, most major 0.0 corps require a huge ammount of skill points or they wont even return your e-mails. They are the worst group of people of any mmorpg i have ever met. Again, 10 plus million sp or don't even bother.
So, since I was a PVPER, 0.0 is where it's at.... that's 90% of the game right there. But unelsss you're in an alliance you can just forget about it. You'll die, there's no reason to hunt there... no way to make money ratting since you'll get ganked faster than you can target. Lets pretend you do get into an Alliance (unless you have 10 mill sp's it'l be a shitty one)... you still don't want to travel by yourself. Everything in the game then becomes whose blob is bigger wins. Wow, that's a ton of fun isn't it? It's all a numbers game. In fact, all of EVE can be summed up in BLOB vs BLOB warefare. That's the meat right there.... and even that doesn't occure as much as it should anymor since systems can't handle it people lag out.... so whenever a station is under siege people don't even try to defend it, they just let it fall.
As I played this game more and more I awoke to my original conclusion that this game is mediocre at best, and I consider anyone who plays it to be a total sucker for it. Honestly, the only reason CCP's subs have gone up recently is from people like me who simply have nothing else to fill that 'space' mmo void that exists on the MMO market right now....
it wont last.
Hi
It seems that you've got a little confused about certain things in the game and had some bad experiences with some idiots (let's be honest, you find them in any game, Eve included).
You said at the top that you really loved Eve for a while, then it seems you got a whole lot of misconceptions into your head. If these really are your concerns and you aren't just posting another 'I hate Eve' thread just for the sake of it, please PM me and I'll try to go through all of them with you.
A few months ago, I founded a corp with a number of people from other games just beginning in EVE. At the time, I had 27m SP or so. They (40-odd people) started with 0.
Six months later, theyve a fully capable PvP corp. They have frequently gone up against considerably larger PvP corps with higher average SP sucessfully. Why? Leadership and tactics. Thats the difference in gang combat. SP are all but irrelevant. If you dont get this, you are not ever going to be a good PvPer in EVE because you simply dont understand the basics.
I am about to try this game out. Read about the free 14-day trial and going to check it out, then purchase another 30-days and see how i like it. I read your post that you are willing to help out NEWB's with joining a player run corp, get some loot, etc. Obviously it might take me a few days to get a hang of things, but after that would you be able to help me out?
Your email was private so, i wasnt sure how to contact you outside these forums. Let me know if you can help.
Originally posted by tirallum Originally posted by Rychek Bottom line for me is that this is a tough game. Its unforgiving. Some of us blame ourselves when we mess up and we learn from it. Others choose to blame the game for thier own mistakes. Truth is we ALL play by the same rules in this game, and as long as that is the case the game is fair enough for me. I swear its funny to me when people make a post and sing it like the game singled them out and was being unfair to them and them alone. We have all been through the tough times in eve. Some of us cry about it and quit. Some of us learned from it and prospered.
The PvP is very unbalanced, and the outcome of the fight is decided 99% times with the fittings/ships/skills before the battle begins. Usually people do not want to risk death if they know they are going to die for sure. This is why this game's PVP is bad.
Only good for the kind of oportunistic people that makes fun on the griefing and bad karma, or the masochists. Real life is enough.
I'll tell you a funny anecdote about the community (worse then WoW):
I managed to get through a pirate gate camp and stay in a safe spot in the solar system, waiting for the pirates to go away. A few minutes later, the whole pirate gang warped to my safespot and killed me. I wondered how they had been able to group warp at my exact position, and asked them! Their answer was the following: "skill", and then they closed the chat window. So there you have your community. Three year old players with T2 ships and modules ganking newbies that go through the gate. And they say it's about "skill" in a pretty badass actitude. LOL. Shortly after that I informed myself about the existence of probes, the scanner and how they worked, pretty simple stuff. I still laugh myself thinking about their answer: "skill". That's the kind of pro and patiente community you have there. And a lot of nerve to brag about it.
And I think piracy and gate camping are very common activities in EVE. This is why, when people talk wonders about EVE, their mature community and ideal PvP, I just LMAO.
Play EVE and have your fun but, please, be a little more humble about yourselves. Make better fanboys out of yourselves
well, as far as i know, using probes correctly is not so easy as it may seem. so i agree that they find you cause of skill.
in fact, you were quite skill-less with your safe spot. so in the end they were better than you, or more skilled, and they found you and killed you.
i dont know what you are complaining about. is it because a group of skilled players found you while you thought you were completely safe?
Originally posted by Ruski1982 Hey Rychek, I am about to try this game out. Read about the free 14-day trial and going to check it out, then purchase another 30-days and see how i like it. I read your post that you are willing to help out NEWB's with joining a player run corp, get some loot, etc. Obviously it might take me a few days to get a hang of things, but after that would you be able to help me out? Your email was private so, i wasnt sure how to contact you outside these forums. Let me know if you can help. Thanks.
Sure we would love to have ya. Contact our recruiting guy via eve-mail. Name is Ira theos.
I quit Eve about a year ago, deleted my chars first etc - so I could focus on my exams. Still after my exams I got back in game, I still havn't passed the magic "10 mil SP" the topic starter keeps refering to. I dont even know where he got that number from, except its a nice round number
You can actually be extremely usefull already, in a Heavy assault cruiser - which is one of the more skill intensive ships outside of capital ships. No character can use all his Skillpoints at any given time, and this grows with the amount he have accomulated. The biggest advantage of an "old" player specialized in combat is that they have a wider array of ships at their disposal. Moreover the "old" players have trained some of the more obscure skills to lvl5 (which only gives 5% extra but takes as much and more than lvl1-4 combined). So if you want to compete, with low skillpoints - specialize.
So, do I envy the ppl with lots of skills - no, actually not. Do I regret deleting my 21M SP char and starting afresh when I came back - heck no. EvE is not, and will never be, a mainstream game - because its harsh death penalties and competitive nature isn't for everyone. To be honest, its a great game - PvP is meaningful with loss. You cannot win over anyone if they dont loose anything, nor can you yourself get excited if youi dont risk anything. In EvE no loss is painless, no battle is meaningless - thats its beauty.
The PvP is very unbalanced, and the outcome of the fight is decided 99% times with the fittings/ships/skills before the battle begins. Usually people do not want to risk death if they know they are going to die for sure. This is why this game's PVP is bad.
This is true for almost (if not all) PVP games. The Sims Online may be more of your cup of tea.
Originally posted by dolanious EVE is an acquired taste for sure. When I first tried the trial I hated it, thought it was lame. Time based skills? Point and click? Slower than molasis? Community is the most jerk-wad of any i've ever seen? Yeah, I hated it all. Then I got bored because there was nothing else for me to play, so I tried it again, really got into it, and subbed. I have been playing since March I think. I really loved EVE for a while, I embrassed it wholly...
But eventually, it does take its tole on you and her flaws begin to show. First of all, I want to clear up any missonceptions for people. EVE is not a true MMORPG. It's a RTS-MMORPG. It's point-and-click repetitativeness will seriously hurt your fingers (this coming from someone who plays alot of FPS mind you).
Time based skills means you will never, ever, ever reach the level of competitive play that the average vetran has....at least, not for a YEAR + or 10 million skillpoints minimum. And that's WITH all the learning skills maxed (as I had), anyone who argues otherwise is plane wrong, and they know it which is why they vehemently deny it so. I think it's pretty rediculious that you have to play a year plus before you can actually begin to enjoy the game as a pvper.
To top it off, most major 0.0 corps require a huge ammount of skill points or they wont even return your e-mails. They are the worst group of people of any mmorpg i have ever met. Again, 10 plus million sp or don't even bother.
So, since I was a PVPER, 0.0 is where it's at.... that's 90% of the game right there. But unelsss you're in an alliance you can just forget about it. You'll die, there's no reason to hunt there... no way to make money ratting since you'll get ganked faster than you can target. Lets pretend you do get into an Alliance (unless you have 10 mill sp's it'l be a shitty one)... you still don't want to travel by yourself. Everything in the game then becomes whose blob is bigger wins. Wow, that's a ton of fun isn't it? It's all a numbers game. In fact, all of EVE can be summed up in BLOB vs BLOB warefare. That's the meat right there.... and even that doesn't occure as much as it should anymor since systems can't handle it people lag out.... so whenever a station is under siege people don't even try to defend it, they just let it fall.
As I played this game more and more I awoke to my original conclusion that this game is mediocre at best, and I consider anyone who plays it to be a total sucker for it. Honestly, the only reason CCP's subs have gone up recently is from people like me who simply have nothing else to fill that 'space' mmo void that exists on the MMO market right now....
it wont last.
mate this game is balanced not like L2 where everybody can kill and u lost sp for that that realy sucks! I see u want to be the strongest in the beggining and that stupid! First u must learn then play lile the strongist! I have character with 12.5 mill sp! Most of them i am pvp, my only goul! I got killd sometime but i am happy becouse i know there are many stronger then me and better!! Time will come to me when i will be strong and better! so plz EVE is then best and balanced game in world
Originally posted by Winters666mate this game is balanced not like L2 where everybody can kill and u lost sp for that that realy sucks! I see u want to be the strongest in the beggining and that stupid! First u must learn then play lile the strongist! I have character with 12.5 mill sp! Most of them i am pvp, my only goul! I got killd sometime but i am happy becouse i know there are many stronger then me and better!! Time will come to me when i will be strong and better! so plz EVE is then best and balanced game in world
Please, please tell me your not from an english langauge country (as in it is a first langauge) because that was discraceful... Sorry for the hijak but man, thats just bad... oh so bad...
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
Originally posted by dolanious [snip]Honestly, the only reason CCP's subs have gone up recently is from people like me who simply have nothing else to fill that 'space' mmo void that exists on the MMO market right now....it wont last.
From the Official EVE-onine forum:
I want to take this time to thank many of D2 for the absolutly epic battles that have fought throughout the week. My account is barely 4 months old but I'm sure I'm taking part in things that some people with 2 yrs under there belt haven't had the opportunity to see. Both D2 and Goonfleet have pulled out all stops and have shown that neither is going to let this system just slip away. I wish everyone could see just how absolutly brutal some of these fights are with both sides absolutly refusing to die (well... refusing to stay dead). In my opinion the experience gained from this campain is worth more than XZH and its surrounding systems. I salute everyone that has taken part.
Now think about it. What differentiates you from that guy I quoted?
------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
The PvP is very unbalanced, and the outcome of the fight is decided 99% times with the fittings/ships/skills before the battle begins. Usually people do not want to risk death if they know they are going to die for sure. This is why this game's PVP is bad.
Only good for the kind of oportunistic people that makes fun on the griefing and bad karma, or the masochists. Real life is enough.
I'll agree with this part, at least. Given how weapons have a very narrow optimal range and they barely do anything outside of that range, combat, at least 1 on 1, tends to be fairly boring, especially when the winner is obvious all of the time. I recently picked up the trial for Vendetta Online and it's a space game with actual dog-fighting. Which means the ship/loadout doesn't automatically determine the battle and one player can't take it easy knowing he's already won.
Originally posted by Mylon Originally posted by tirallum
The PvP is very unbalanced, and the outcome of the fight is decided 99% times with the fittings/ships/skills before the battle begins. Usually people do not want to risk death if they know they are going to die for sure. This is why this game's PVP is bad.
Only good for the kind of oportunistic people that makes fun on the griefing and bad karma, or the masochists. Real life is enough.
I'll agree with this part, at least. Given how weapons have a very narrow optimal range and they barely do anything outside of that range, combat, at least 1 on 1, tends to be fairly boring, especially when the winner is obvious all of the time. I recently picked up the trial for Vendetta Online and it's a space game with actual dog-fighting. Which means the ship/loadout doesn't automatically determine the battle and one player can't take it easy knowing he's already won.
Let me ask you this. Does it make logical sense for weapons to be effective a great distances? My friend, 1.5km is a long long way away for anything. You just need to remember that skill points do not make this game.
I have a friend who I met when I first started playing the game who within our first month, got a covert ops ship with good weapons (And this is under 1mil SP need I mind you) and had a corp hire him as a Special Operations Director.
I recomend you give the game at least one more try before you give up on it. Sure ganking is going to happen, happens in all PVP games. Group of two guys in HACs catch a lonely hauler with out instas in a .4 system. It's the haulers fault for not checking before hand his route safety (The map lets you see ship and pod killings of where you are going). If Eve were real life, I'd expect them to do what they did in game to that poor newbie hauler (Which happened to be me -_- Good thing it was only an Itty 3).
I like to think of EVE like this. EVE is like collecting ships as a hobby. You can build them, make them look neat, put on all sorts of weapons and think of cool stories behind them just like a real life model. However in EVE, you get to blow things up with your nice collection
(1997) UO --> EQ -> Runescape -> DAoC -> WoW -> EVE + WAR (2008)
Hawk noobs, get them on the defensive, snipe them and feed them full of bullshit advice.
Like how all the alts in Corp brag about their tanked BS.
You know, the armor layered one that has 0 inertia and takes 600 seconds to warp out from gates, even with instas and is a sitting duck for player rats.
Originally posted by free2play This board reminds me alot of corp noob channel. Hawk noobs, get them on the defensive, snipe them and feed them full of bullshit advice. Like how all the alts in Corp brag about their tanked BS. You know, the armor layered one that has 0 inertia and takes 600 seconds to warp out from gates, even with instas and is a sitting duck for player rats. __________ To the OP, you came to the wrong place. Sorry.
No battleship is going to warp out fast enough to survive a gatecamp, and a solid close-range PvP fitting (which for armas, megas, scorps, and domis is plates plates and more plates) might give you the shot to take a few of them with you (assuming you arent absurdly outnumbered).
Now think about it. What differentiates you from that guy I quoted?
Maybe he has a real life friend already in EVE, who won't take him to task for losing a ship or two, or taking time off, or not being on voice chat?
This is the type of game that will kill you if you don't know someone on the inside before you get there. This is why most of the growth of EVE has come from the buddy key program.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by free2play This board reminds me alot of corp noob channel. Hawk noobs, get them on the defensive, snipe them and feed them full of bullshit advice. Like how all the alts in Corp brag about their tanked BS. You know, the armor layered one that has 0 inertia and takes 600 seconds to warp out from gates, even with instas and is a sitting duck for player rats. __________ To the OP, you came to the wrong place. Sorry.
I'm sorry, but thats the same for all games and the internet in general. There will always be people taking shots at each other.
You dismiss the posts that were attempts to be helpful, mine included. Perhaps I did snipe a bit later but that was after my helpful posts were dismissed without response or rebuttal. Honestly I don't know why you hate eve as much as you do, but its clear you have an axe to grind and not an opjective perspective to share.
You can continue to pick and choose what you respond too, but that will only further exemplify to me your lack of rational arguement for the replies you skip over.
Honestly I don't know why you hate eve as much as you do, but its clear you have an axe to grind and not an opjective perspective to share.
You don't understand because you and the other EVE fanatics around here really don't care about understanding.
I understand though, and I play EVE, like EVE, and understand where he is coming from.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Beatnik59 Originally posted by Rychek Honestly I don't know why you hate eve as much as you do, but its clear you have an axe to grind and not an opjective perspective to share. You don't understand because you and the other EVE fanatics around here really don't care about understanding. I understand though, and I play EVE, like EVE, and understand where he is coming from.
free2play always posts as if is own faults and lack of understanding were the game's fault. i have seen him do that at least 4 times. he then gets lots of replies, many of them helpful, though harsh, and some flames, and then he always blames the community.
well, i agree with rychek. there are many people trying to help, but he just ignores those posts and insults the community.
i have seen him post about loosing BS to level 3 missions twice. and the first time he got lots of helpful replies. guess what, 2 weeks later he posts again. he lost a shield tanked apoc to a level 3 mission. and again, he wants us to believe it is the game's fault.
again he got some helpful answers. of course they were harsh. i think he deserved it, but nevertheless they were very helpful regarding his problem with missions and BS. and again he blames the community.
so tell what is it you understand and the rest of us dont
Originally posted by apertotes so tell what is it you understand and the rest of us dont
That EVE is a game like any other. It has bugs, a community, gameplay, customer service, and value similar to the vast majority of others out right now.
It is not perfect like many passionate defenders of it claim it to be, but it does have very good and novel features that the detractors need to acknowlege. The huge nature of Tranquility, the graphics, the diversity in skills, and the huge potential for player creativity are definate plus marks found in no other game.
It is also not as flawed as many who detract from it make it out to be, but this does not mean it doesn't have serious flaws that the supporters of it just fail to take seriously when they are pointed out. The community can be helpful when it chooses to be, but it is also an entrenched community that has no reason to really care. It has problems with unattended gameplay, spawn camping, uber-loots, griefing, biased GMing, balance, voice software segragation, and performance issues. These issues have been brought up too many times, by too many players current and former, for them to not be valid.
However, before "Oveur's Brigade" comes here to blob assault my post like they always do when they see anything other than "EVE is the greatest and you suck," let me just say that just because they are valid issues doesn't make the game bad. It just makes the game like any other game out there. Its good enough to keep many a player's interest, with enough flaws that it will drive many players away. EVE is not bad, but its not perfect either. 130,000 subscriptions takes it out of the "niche game" category, but I believe that this is only because something as deep as EVE isn't around right now, and players are settling for it.
I do know one thing though. There are not 130,000 individuals playing on Tranquility. I'd say half that if we are lucky, because many players have multiple accounts, since they allow you to train multiple characters at the same time. I'd also would venture to say that China notwithstanding, the number of potential new players to Tranquility is quickly depleating, because given three years, buddy programs, and free trials, pretty much everyone who would be interested in this game has either tried it and signed, or tried it and rejected it. Notice something else when visiting MMORPG charts. Much of EVE's success comes at SWG's expense, and you can see the trend where EVE rises correlate quite nicely to a decline in SWG's subscriber rates around the time of the CU, and later with the NGE.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Rychek Originally posted by free2play This board reminds me alot of corp noob channel. Hawk noobs, get them on the defensive, snipe them and feed them full of bullshit advice. Like how all the alts in Corp brag about their tanked BS. You know, the armor layered one that has 0 inertia and takes 600 seconds to warp out from gates, even with instas and is a sitting duck for player rats. __________ To the OP, you came to the wrong place. Sorry.
I'm sorry, but thats the same for all games and the internet in general. There will always be people taking shots at each other.
You dismiss the posts that were attempts to be helpful, mine included. Perhaps I did snipe a bit later but that was after my helpful posts were dismissed without response or rebuttal. Honestly I don't know why you hate eve as much as you do, but its clear you have an axe to grind and not an opjective perspective to share.
You can continue to pick and choose what you respond too, but that will only further exemplify to me your lack of rational arguement for the replies you skip over.
There are always good eggs in the bunch as well and for the record, I don't hate Eve. Do a history check, I have posted all the good things in Eve that I could find. Devs don't wreck the game with half ass fixes being high on the list. I just see flaws and don't hesitate to bitch. It's not to say the game should be shelved, it's to say there are imbalances. I went and did the Mordus Mission L1 and L2 tonight. 1 in a frig, 2 in a BC (I don't own a cruiser) They were eyes closed, stupid easy missions. That is a flaw to me. To go from L2 stupid easy to L3 stupid hard. I know how to beat the L3 Mordus. With the bugs, with an Apoc. Go train Sentry drones and sit 200 km with a really good lock bonus fitting. (I have some that will get me to near 200km)
Like all the solutions, it means time, lots of time. Back to what I said, in the mean time? Do stupid easy L2 missions? Eve is not a difficult game, it is not 'skilled'. No game is. It's code. All code is the same. You can or you can't. Yes or no, 0's and 1's.
In fairness, I am in the wrong. My toon is Gallente. I am doing Gallente missions in an Amarr ship. Fighting Caldari for the most part. I own Sansha's. This is what is may make Eve complex, yet it is a flaw. It's about micro managing specialties. It's why the argument you need to be l33t is rubbish. Nobody can be l33t in one battle because there is an opposite to everything. Everything voids itself out in Eve.
Want an 'easy' answer to Eve? At the beginning of the game, have the neocon chick suggest skills to train next. (turn the option off it you don't want it) Base it on a question you get asked either in creation or at the neocon stage. Miner or combat pilot for example. Unless you know the order of specialist routes, this game can become a very big headache that most people will never take the time to figure out.
Originally posted by Beatnik59 Originally posted by Azirophos
Now think about it. What differentiates you from that guy I quoted?
Maybe he has a real life friend already in EVE, who won't take him to task for losing a ship or two, or taking time off, or not being on voice chat? This is the type of game that will kill you if you don't know someone on the inside before you get there. This is why most of the growth of EVE has come from the buddy key program.
I have to contest this assertion. I joined my first corp my 2nd day from replying to a forum post. The one after that, in which I will be celebrating my 2nd anniversary fairly soon, was a chance meeting between me and my CEO in 0.0 space because he noticed we lived near each other. We got to talking and found that we enjoyed each others company and I joined his corp when I left the first. I am practically now his second in command.
I've made a lot of friends since I came down to the Querious Region, just by chatting and offering my help, or even hiring people (when I was new in 0.0 I offered BS pilots half my mining yeild in exchange for their protection).
Knowing people beforehand helps, but it is by no means necessary.
Originally posted by Beatnik59 Maybe he has a real life friend already in EVE, who won't take him to task for losing a ship or two, or taking time off, or not being on voice chat? This is the type of game that will kill you if you don't know someone on the inside before you get there. This is why most of the growth of EVE has come from the buddy key program.
Primarily, I would say, it is attitude and motivation what makes the difference between the two. If you are playing in circumstances that are not to your liking (like being forced to do something by your corp you don't want), then you always have the option to change things. There are corps for every taste out there in EVE. What I don't like are people who blame their own indecisiveness and lack of creativity on EVE, making a big fuss about "how bad" the game is.
Other points you mentioned: 1.) When I started EVE I didn't have a friend who played it already.
2.) Taking time off was never a problem to me or anyone I know in game. I know no corp which doesn't understand that RL comes first. If you are in such a corp, then move to another one.
3.) Voice Chat. Usually PvP oriented corps have the requirement to be at least able to listen on voice chat. You don't need to be an entertainer, or whatever, just be able to follow voice commands. Try organizing a fleet of 70 to 200 people without voice comms - good luck with that. Even with voice comms it's a daunting task. Voice comms will always give you an advantage, no matter if it's EVE, WoW, DAoC, Dawn of War, CS, BF2, etc. And you can't blame corps for trying to utilize that advantage.
Originally posted by free2play I just see flaws and don't hesitate to bitch.
There is absolutely no problem if you are brining a (real) problem or question to the forums, but its all a matter of how it is brought to the forums. But, if the post is just even remotely constructive, then it will be certainly better received then a pure "orgy of whinage". I don't say you did that, I'm just saying this in general.
Originally posted by free2play That is a flaw to me. To go from L2 stupid easy to L3 stupid hard. I know how to beat the L3 Mordus.
Then why does a friend of mine complain, that L3s are too easy with his Ferox? And no, I didn't help him much either, only maybe with a fitting or two - but then again that is something that any new player can get, either on forums or help channels.
Originally posted by free2play Unless you know the order of specialist routes, this game can become a very big headache that most people will never take the time to figure out. Just my opinion.
Players of Chracters which are now 2 years or older had to figure out things even with less information. That Aurora Tutorial didn't exist back then, there were less players and "firsthand" experience wasn't that widespread. Yet I (and a lot of others) still managed to make a good skill planning for my(our) character(s). I for my part sat down, looked at what equipment I wanted to be able to use and checked the skill requirements on market of that piece of equipment - so I "backtraced" what skills I need to learn and at what level. This has nothing to do with having friends in game or not, or if you are in a player corp, or how intelligent you are, but simple good old patience and a sheet of paper and a pen. Yes there were less skills back then, but the new skills still build on a freamwork of basics which are valid till today.
------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
dolanius, you just can't get over the fact they left you alone in the cold... and that is because you are an annoying chap. in my n00b days of eve i found people on the local chat that helped me finish missions just because they liked to. i found a corp that took me in even if i dropped the rankings, a corp of 30 vets, in a big alliance, that's moving to 0.0 and building POS. i found people takin' hours to explain the skill system (which is great, you just don't have the brain to get it. you just wanted to 0wn and, guess what, you couldn't...) and even givin' me money just because i needed it to insure my ship. a mmorpg is not only PvP. is a virtual persistent world where even hauling ore for 11 hrs may be great fun just beacuse the company is great. and i started the game alone. no RL friends in there. the first char corp i got in was shit. i just left them. it's not eve you looking for. it's counterstrike. no char advancement, no fuss, no need to switch on brain. BTW, when you'll find that you will get 0wned even in CS, there's always that wallhack.
Easy to asnwer the Planetside argument. Planetside uses CSHD (Client Side Hit Detction). I have been playing Planetside for years and belive me, its VERY laggy. I regulalrly play with friends in the same room (makes communication so much easier) and you can clearly see then that when someone starts running, other peopel don't see them run for about a second or two.
So yeah, planetside is laggy, but circumvents alot by using CSHD (the only reason it exists, same as WWIIOL. Ever seen the lag on some 64 player BF2 Matches? Thats cuase thats Server Side Hit Detection [SSHD]). Did you ever play PS and wonder why you died to a sniper even though you just got behind that rock? That becuase of the CSHD and the lag. To you, you where behind the rock, becuase of the lag the server was showing you in the open and that sniper drilled you as you ran to the said rock, even though you thought you where behind it.
So yeah.. there you go. CSHD wouldn't work in EvE due to the way the game works (not exactly twitch is it?)
Originally posted by dolanious EVE is an acquired taste for sure. When I first tried the trial I hated it, thought it was lame. Time based skills? Point and click? Slower than molasis? Community is the most jerk-wad of any i've ever seen? Yeah, I hated it all. Then I got bored because there was nothing else for me to play, so I tried it again, really got into it, and subbed. I have been playing since March I think. I really loved EVE for a while, I embrassed it wholly...
...
it wont last.
You sir said it best!
That post was not a troll, nor was it a flame, I agree with the post and don't play anymore, some of you disagree and you play, simple.
Just one thing, those who say that time spent and millions of skillpoints earned do not matter for PVP are either ignorant or stupid, it's like saying that WoW isn't gear dependednt at all, ofcourse, naked rogue CAN beat an Epic warrior, BUT, it is not trough Epic skills of the rogue, but rather trough "single-braincell skill's" of the warrior, just like in EVE, good newbie can beat braindead veteran, period.
Comments
It seems that you've got a little confused about certain things in the game and had some bad experiences with some idiots (let's be honest, you find them in any game, Eve included).
You said at the top that you really loved Eve for a while, then it seems you got a whole lot of misconceptions into your head. If these really are your concerns and you aren't just posting another 'I hate Eve' thread just for the sake of it, please PM me and I'll try to go through all of them with you.
Thanks.
A few months ago, I founded a corp with a number of people from other
games just beginning in EVE. At the time, I had 27m SP or so. They
(40-odd people) started with 0.
Six months later, theyve a fully capable PvP corp. They have frequently
gone up against considerably larger PvP corps with higher average SP
sucessfully. Why? Leadership and tactics. Thats the difference in gang
combat. SP are all but irrelevant. If you dont get this, you are not
ever going to be a good PvPer in EVE because you simply dont understand
the basics.
Hey Rychek,
I am about to try this game out. Read about the free 14-day trial and going to check it out, then purchase another 30-days and see how i like it. I read your post that you are willing to help out NEWB's with joining a player run corp, get some loot, etc. Obviously it might take me a few days to get a hang of things, but after that would you be able to help me out?
Your email was private so, i wasnt sure how to contact you outside these forums. Let me know if you can help.
Thanks.
The PvP is very unbalanced, and the outcome of the fight is decided 99% times with the fittings/ships/skills before the battle begins. Usually people do not want to risk death if they know they are going to die for sure. This is why this game's PVP is bad.
Only good for the kind of oportunistic people that makes fun on the griefing and bad karma, or the masochists. Real life is enough.
I'll tell you a funny anecdote about the community (worse then WoW):
I managed to get through a pirate gate camp and stay in a safe spot in the solar system, waiting for the pirates to go away. A few minutes later, the whole pirate gang warped to my safespot and killed me. I wondered how they had been able to group warp at my exact position, and asked them! Their answer was the following: "skill", and then they closed the chat window. So there you have your community. Three year old players with T2 ships and modules ganking newbies that go through the gate. And they say it's about "skill" in a pretty badass actitude. LOL. Shortly after that I informed myself about the existence of probes, the scanner and how they worked, pretty simple stuff. I still laugh myself thinking about their answer: "skill". That's the kind of pro and patiente community you have there. And a lot of nerve to brag about it.
And I think piracy and gate camping are very common activities in EVE. This is why, when people talk wonders about EVE, their mature community and ideal PvP, I just LMAO.
Play EVE and have your fun but, please, be a little more humble about yourselves. Make better fanboys out of yourselves
well, as far as i know, using probes correctly is not so easy as it may seem. so i agree that they find you cause of skill.
in fact, you were quite skill-less with your safe spot. so in the end they were better than you, or more skilled, and they found you and killed you.
i dont know what you are complaining about. is it because a group of skilled players found you while you thought you were completely safe?
I quit Eve about a year ago, deleted my chars first etc - so I could
focus on my exams. Still after my exams I got back in game, I still
havn't passed the magic "10 mil SP" the topic starter keeps refering
to. I dont even know where he got that number from, except its a nice
round number
You can actually be extremely usefull already, in a Heavy assault
cruiser - which is one of the more skill intensive ships outside of
capital ships. No character can use all his Skillpoints at any given
time, and this grows with the amount he have accomulated. The biggest
advantage of an "old" player specialized in combat is that they have a
wider array of ships at their disposal. Moreover the "old" players have
trained some of the more obscure skills to lvl5 (which only gives 5%
extra but takes as much and more than lvl1-4 combined). So if you want
to compete, with low skillpoints - specialize.
So, do I envy the ppl with lots of skills - no, actually not. Do I
regret deleting my 21M SP char and starting afresh when I came back -
heck no. EvE is not, and will never be, a mainstream game - because its
harsh death penalties and competitive nature isn't for everyone. To be
honest, its a great game - PvP is meaningful with loss. You cannot win
over anyone if they dont loose anything, nor can you yourself get
excited if youi dont risk anything. In EvE no loss is painless, no
battle is meaningless - thats its beauty.
The PvP is very unbalanced, and the outcome of the fight is decided 99% times with the fittings/ships/skills before the battle begins. Usually people do not want to risk death if they know they are going to die for sure. This is why this game's PVP is bad.
This is true for almost (if not all) PVP games. The Sims Online may be more of your cup of tea.
http://www.TheGamersAssociation.com
Please, please tell me your not from an english langauge country (as in it is a first langauge) because that was discraceful... Sorry for the hijak but man, thats just bad... oh so bad...
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
From the Official EVE-onine forum:
Now think about it. What differentiates you from that guy I quoted?
------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
The PvP is very unbalanced, and the outcome of the fight is decided 99% times with the fittings/ships/skills before the battle begins. Usually people do not want to risk death if they know they are going to die for sure. This is why this game's PVP is bad.
Only good for the kind of oportunistic people that makes fun on the griefing and bad karma, or the masochists. Real life is enough.
I'll agree with this part, at least. Given how weapons have a very narrow optimal range and they barely do anything outside of that range, combat, at least 1 on 1, tends to be fairly boring, especially when the winner is obvious all of the time. I recently picked up the trial for Vendetta Online and it's a space game with actual dog-fighting. Which means the ship/loadout doesn't automatically determine the battle and one player can't take it easy knowing he's already won.
The PvP is very unbalanced, and the outcome of the fight is decided 99% times with the fittings/ships/skills before the battle begins. Usually people do not want to risk death if they know they are going to die for sure. This is why this game's PVP is bad.
Only good for the kind of oportunistic people that makes fun on the griefing and bad karma, or the masochists. Real life is enough.
I'll agree with this part, at least. Given how weapons have a very narrow optimal range and they barely do anything outside of that range, combat, at least 1 on 1, tends to be fairly boring, especially when the winner is obvious all of the time. I recently picked up the trial for Vendetta Online and it's a space game with actual dog-fighting. Which means the ship/loadout doesn't automatically determine the battle and one player can't take it easy knowing he's already won.
Let me ask you this. Does it make logical sense for weapons to be effective a great distances? My friend, 1.5km is a long long way away for anything. You just need to remember that skill points do not make this game.
I have a friend who I met when I first started playing the game who within our first month, got a covert ops ship with good weapons (And this is under 1mil SP need I mind you) and had a corp hire him as a Special Operations Director.
I recomend you give the game at least one more try before you give up on it. Sure ganking is going to happen, happens in all PVP games. Group of two guys in HACs catch a lonely hauler with out instas in a .4 system. It's the haulers fault for not checking before hand his route safety (The map lets you see ship and pod killings of where you are going). If Eve were real life, I'd expect them to do what they did in game to that poor newbie hauler (Which happened to be me -_- Good thing it was only an Itty 3).
I like to think of EVE like this. EVE is like collecting ships as a hobby. You can build them, make them look neat, put on all sorts of weapons and think of cool stories behind them just like a real life model. However in EVE, you get to blow things up with your nice collection
(1997) UO --> EQ -> Runescape -> DAoC -> WoW -> EVE + WAR (2008)
This board reminds me alot of corp noob channel.
Hawk noobs, get them on the defensive, snipe them and feed them full of bullshit advice.
Like how all the alts in Corp brag about their tanked BS.
You know, the armor layered one that has 0 inertia and takes 600 seconds to warp out from gates, even with instas and is a sitting duck for player rats.
__________
To the OP, you came to the wrong place. Sorry.
Now think about it. What differentiates you from that guy I quoted?
Maybe he has a real life friend already in EVE, who won't take him to task for losing a ship or two, or taking time off, or not being on voice chat?
This is the type of game that will kill you if you don't know someone on the inside before you get there. This is why most of the growth of EVE has come from the buddy key program.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
You dismiss the posts that were attempts to be helpful, mine included. Perhaps I did snipe a bit later but that was after my helpful posts were dismissed without response or rebuttal. Honestly I don't know why you hate eve as much as you do, but its clear you have an axe to grind and not an opjective perspective to share.
You can continue to pick and choose what you respond too, but that will only further exemplify to me your lack of rational arguement for the replies you skip over.
You don't understand because you and the other EVE fanatics around here really don't care about understanding.
I understand though, and I play EVE, like EVE, and understand where he is coming from.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
free2play always posts as if is own faults and lack of understanding were the game's fault. i have seen him do that at least 4 times. he then gets lots of replies, many of them helpful, though harsh, and some flames, and then he always blames the community.
well, i agree with rychek. there are many people trying to help, but he just ignores those posts and insults the community.
i have seen him post about loosing BS to level 3 missions twice. and the first time he got lots of helpful replies. guess what, 2 weeks later he posts again. he lost a shield tanked apoc to a level 3 mission. and again, he wants us to believe it is the game's fault.
again he got some helpful answers. of course they were harsh. i think he deserved it, but nevertheless they were very helpful regarding his problem with missions and BS. and again he blames the community.
so tell what is it you understand and the rest of us dont
That EVE is a game like any other. It has bugs, a community, gameplay, customer service, and value similar to the vast majority of others out right now.
It is not perfect like many passionate defenders of it claim it to be, but it does have very good and novel features that the detractors need to acknowlege. The huge nature of Tranquility, the graphics, the diversity in skills, and the huge potential for player creativity are definate plus marks found in no other game.
It is also not as flawed as many who detract from it make it out to be, but this does not mean it doesn't have serious flaws that the supporters of it just fail to take seriously when they are pointed out. The community can be helpful when it chooses to be, but it is also an entrenched community that has no reason to really care. It has problems with unattended gameplay, spawn camping, uber-loots, griefing, biased GMing, balance, voice software segragation, and performance issues. These issues have been brought up too many times, by too many players current and former, for them to not be valid.
However, before "Oveur's Brigade" comes here to blob assault my post like they always do when they see anything other than "EVE is the greatest and you suck," let me just say that just because they are valid issues doesn't make the game bad. It just makes the game like any other game out there. Its good enough to keep many a player's interest, with enough flaws that it will drive many players away. EVE is not bad, but its not perfect either. 130,000 subscriptions takes it out of the "niche game" category, but I believe that this is only because something as deep as EVE isn't around right now, and players are settling for it.
I do know one thing though. There are not 130,000 individuals playing on Tranquility. I'd say half that if we are lucky, because many players have multiple accounts, since they allow you to train multiple characters at the same time. I'd also would venture to say that China notwithstanding, the number of potential new players to Tranquility is quickly depleating, because given three years, buddy programs, and free trials, pretty much everyone who would be interested in this game has either tried it and signed, or tried it and rejected it. Notice something else when visiting MMORPG charts. Much of EVE's success comes at SWG's expense, and you can see the trend where EVE rises correlate quite nicely to a decline in SWG's subscriber rates around the time of the CU, and later with the NGE.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
You dismiss the posts that were attempts to be helpful, mine included. Perhaps I did snipe a bit later but that was after my helpful posts were dismissed without response or rebuttal. Honestly I don't know why you hate eve as much as you do, but its clear you have an axe to grind and not an opjective perspective to share.
You can continue to pick and choose what you respond too, but that will only further exemplify to me your lack of rational arguement for the replies you skip over.
There are always good eggs in the bunch as well and for the record, I don't hate Eve. Do a history check, I have posted all the good things in Eve that I could find. Devs don't wreck the game with half ass fixes being high on the list. I just see flaws and don't hesitate to bitch. It's not to say the game should be shelved, it's to say there are imbalances. I went and did the Mordus Mission L1 and L2 tonight. 1 in a frig, 2 in a BC (I don't own a cruiser) They were eyes closed, stupid easy missions. That is a flaw to me. To go from L2 stupid easy to L3 stupid hard. I know how to beat the L3 Mordus. With the bugs, with an Apoc. Go train Sentry drones and sit 200 km with a really good lock bonus fitting. (I have some that will get me to near 200km)
Like all the solutions, it means time, lots of time. Back to what I said, in the mean time? Do stupid easy L2 missions? Eve is not a difficult game, it is not 'skilled'. No game is. It's code. All code is the same. You can or you can't. Yes or no, 0's and 1's.
In fairness, I am in the wrong. My toon is Gallente. I am doing Gallente missions in an Amarr ship. Fighting Caldari for the most part. I own Sansha's. This is what is may make Eve complex, yet it is a flaw. It's about micro managing specialties. It's why the argument you need to be l33t is rubbish. Nobody can be l33t in one battle because there is an opposite to everything. Everything voids itself out in Eve.
Want an 'easy' answer to Eve?
At the beginning of the game, have the neocon chick suggest skills to train next. (turn the option off it you don't want it) Base it on a question you get asked either in creation or at the neocon stage. Miner or combat pilot for example. Unless you know the order of specialist routes, this game can become a very big headache that most people will never take the time to figure out.
Just my opinion.
Now think about it. What differentiates you from that guy I quoted?
Maybe he has a real life friend already in EVE, who won't take him to task for losing a ship or two, or taking time off, or not being on voice chat?
This is the type of game that will kill you if you don't know someone on the inside before you get there. This is why most of the growth of EVE has come from the buddy key program.
I have to contest this assertion. I joined my first corp my 2nd day from replying to a forum post. The one after that, in which I will be celebrating my 2nd anniversary fairly soon, was a chance meeting between me and my CEO in 0.0 space because he noticed we lived near each other. We got to talking and found that we enjoyed each others company and I joined his corp when I left the first. I am practically now his second in command.
I've made a lot of friends since I came down to the Querious Region, just by chatting and offering my help, or even hiring people (when I was new in 0.0 I offered BS pilots half my mining yeild in exchange for their protection).
Knowing people beforehand helps, but it is by no means necessary.
Primarily, I would say, it is attitude and motivation what makes the difference between the two. If you are playing in circumstances that are not to your liking (like being forced to do something by your corp you don't want), then you always have the option to change things. There are corps for every taste out there in EVE. What I don't like are people who blame their own indecisiveness and lack of creativity on EVE, making a big fuss about "how bad" the game is.
Other points you mentioned:
1.) When I started EVE I didn't have a friend who played it already.
2.) Taking time off was never a problem to me or anyone I know in game. I know no corp which doesn't understand that RL comes first. If you are in such a corp, then move to another one.
3.) Voice Chat. Usually PvP oriented corps have the requirement to be at least able to listen on voice chat. You don't need to be an entertainer, or whatever, just be able to follow voice commands. Try organizing a fleet of 70 to 200 people without voice comms - good luck with that. Even with voice comms it's a daunting task. Voice comms will always give you an advantage, no matter if it's EVE, WoW, DAoC, Dawn of War, CS, BF2, etc. And you can't blame corps for trying to utilize that advantage.
There is absolutely no problem if you are brining a (real) problem or question to the forums, but its all a matter of how it is brought to the forums. But, if the post is just even remotely constructive, then it will be certainly better received then a pure "orgy of whinage". I don't say you did that, I'm just saying this in general.
Then why does a friend of mine complain, that L3s are too easy with his Ferox? And no, I didn't help him much either, only maybe with a fitting or two - but then again that is something that any new player can get, either on forums or help channels.
Players of Chracters which are now 2 years or older had to figure out things even with less information. That Aurora Tutorial didn't exist back then, there were less players and "firsthand" experience wasn't that widespread. Yet I (and a lot of others) still managed to make a good skill planning for my(our) character(s). I for my part sat down, looked at what equipment I wanted to be able to use and checked the skill requirements on market of that piece of equipment - so I "backtraced" what skills I need to learn and at what level. This has nothing to do with having friends in game or not, or if you are in a player corp, or how intelligent you are, but simple good old patience and a sheet of paper and a pen. Yes there were less skills back then, but the new skills still build on a freamwork of basics which are valid till today.------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
dolanius, you just can't get over the fact they left you alone in the cold...
and that is because you are an annoying chap.
in my n00b days of eve i found people on the local chat that helped me finish missions just because they liked to. i found a corp that took me in even if i dropped the rankings, a corp of 30 vets, in a big alliance, that's moving to 0.0 and building POS. i found people takin' hours to explain the skill system (which is great, you just don't have the brain to get it. you just wanted to 0wn and, guess what, you couldn't...) and even givin' me money just because i needed it to insure my ship.
a mmorpg is not only PvP. is a virtual persistent world where even hauling ore for 11 hrs may be great fun just beacuse the company is great.
and i started the game alone. no RL friends in there. the first char corp i got in was shit. i just left them.
it's not eve you looking for. it's counterstrike. no char advancement, no fuss, no need to switch on brain.
BTW, when you'll find that you will get 0wned even in CS, there's always that wallhack.
Easy to asnwer the Planetside argument. Planetside uses CSHD (Client Side Hit Detction). I have been playing Planetside for years and belive me, its VERY laggy. I regulalrly play with friends in the same room (makes communication so much easier) and you can clearly see then that when someone starts running, other peopel don't see them run for about a second or two.
So yeah, planetside is laggy, but circumvents alot by using CSHD (the only reason it exists, same as WWIIOL. Ever seen the lag on some 64 player BF2 Matches? Thats cuase thats Server Side Hit Detection [SSHD]). Did you ever play PS and wonder why you died to a sniper even though you just got behind that rock? That becuase of the CSHD and the lag. To you, you where behind the rock, becuase of the lag the server was showing you in the open and that sniper drilled you as you ran to the said rock, even though you thought you where behind it.
So yeah.. there you go. CSHD wouldn't work in EvE due to the way the game works (not exactly twitch is it?)
But yeah.. moo
You sir said it best!
That post was not a troll, nor was it a flame, I agree with the post and don't play anymore, some of you disagree and you play, simple.
Just one thing, those who say that time spent and millions of skillpoints earned do not matter for PVP are either ignorant or stupid, it's like saying that WoW isn't gear dependednt at all, ofcourse, naked rogue CAN beat an Epic warrior, BUT, it is not trough Epic skills of the rogue, but rather trough "single-braincell skill's" of the warrior, just like in EVE, good newbie can beat braindead veteran, period.