E3

drunkfatjew · May 2006

Well the folks at RR promised some news (big/little/insignificant) on TC during E3. I've scoured the internet and have seen nothing. I'm guessing thats the news....nothing. RR continues to suck it every single day. If any RR people are reading this forum, y'all are youre own worse enemies. Gratz with that.

shae · May 2006

Is RR even at E3 ? I checked the mmocenter.com site and didn't see any information, TC doesn't even have a page yet, so couldn't check that.

Havn't seen any info or news about RR on this site regarding E3 or any other MMO site for that matter. So I'm just guessing but maybe they're not even there ?

RemyVorender · May 2006

They said they were "going", but whether that entails showing off their product or just walking around remains to be seen...

fulmanfu · May 2006

oh and the chronicle does have a spectacular new website, or so they claim. (i know makes no sense but that fits the mold for RR)

they just don't want to put it up. o.O.
i guess its cuz they will miss their old 'free bb's and a 6th graders computer class project' looking website..

shae · May 2006

Originally posted by fulmanfu

oh and the chronicle does have a spectacular new website, or so they claim. (i know makes no sense but that fits the mold for RR)
they just don't want to put it up. o.O.
i guess its cuz they will miss their old 'free bb's and a 6th graders computer class project' looking website..

Well your that much more ahead of me, after searching through the mmocenter.com forums (yeah they don't like really pretty, but that's not always so important) I could hardly find any information at all, at least what available to the general public. There was many posts like this one:

http://mmocenter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1846&sid=e997ee0cc6886e480e2671a7df28e5d4

Where you see CS basically all but dismissing the poster and the even more like this one:

http://mmocenter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1840&sid=e997ee0cc6886e480e2671a7df28e5d4

Where not only does CS again dismiss the question in hand but other community members kinda make a running joke of it.

Now after all that, it seems theres alot of information being passed around behind the sceens and perhaps even some directed to Beta members in some sort of "beta forum" at which point they may be subeject to NDA.

To top this, they really don't seem to care that the rest of us are left in the dark and they've obviously no issue with shutting down any questions or attempts to clarify matters. Assume what you want or need from this, but IMO, someone at RR really needs to look Public Relations in their local yellow book directory, as things of this nature will only become more daunting in the future.

RemyVorender · May 2006

I agree 100%.

The PR this game has at this point in time is going to single-handedly destroy it. It's a shame because from what I hear, this game has some great and new ideas never attempted before in an MMO. It would be unfortunate if no one were to play it because they treat their followers like crap...and we all know what word of mouth can do to a company/game.

NegativeJoe · May 2006

You couldn't be more wrong about beta members getting alot of info. They get nothing except a very occasional writeup from a fan on their visit to the studios. Basically they give out some sort of kosher hotdog if you go to atlanta.

shae · May 2006

Originally posted by remyburke

I agree 100%.
The PR this game has at this point in time is going to single-handedly destroy it. It's a shame because from what I hear, this game has some great and new ideas never attempted before in an MMO. It would be unfortunate if no one were to play it because they treat their followers like crap...and we all know what word of mouth can do to a company/game.

Well I remember about a year and half ago starting to pay attention to a games development team I had been following for awhile until then, that game was Dark and Light.

Many things caused me to raise an eyebrow in NP3's direction at the time, a complete lack of respect for it's community was one, an unwillingness to filter any answers to popular questions was another, not realising the importance of it's community was probably the biggest one.

Had I oppoturnity to speak with a TC Dev, I'd ask them to visit the DnL website and take a good read at the official forums and get a reality kick of what community-developer annomosity will do to a game.

infra172 · May 2006

Exactly

Bissrok · May 2006

They're posting a summary of what they've done at E3 on the beta forums when they get back. At the moment they're still there.

Once more, calm the fuck down. They don't owe you the information (even if you pre-ordered) and they're not out to impress you.

FergRedbeard · May 2006

it would be nice to see the beta forums....

just a peak? please?

On a side note...I sorda agree with some of the critics about RR failing the PR class....however...when the game does come out....I'm not really going to care what the PR was like before hand...I'm going to play based on what the game actually looks like and what people say about it in action....

So essentially....I'm waiting....mostly patient

would prefer too see more...but resigned myself a couple months ago that that would happen "when it happens"

life goes on....

fulmanfu · May 2006

Originally posted by Bissrok
TThey don't owe you the information (even if you pre-ordered) and they're not out to impress you.

i would think any company would want to impress us. that just makes no sense sorry

shae · May 2006

Originally posted by Bissrok
They're posting a summary of what they've done at E3 on the beta forums when they get back. At the moment they're still there.

Once more, calm the fuck down. They don't owe you the information (even if you pre-ordered) and they're not out to impress you.

Ah yes, the calling of an intellectual response, well done Bissrok, well done.

Had you even bothered reading the thread, you would have noticed that until you came in with that lovely summation of agnst filled pre-pubescent maturity, an actual discussion was happening. It was conversing, a sharring of oppinions, both positive and negative but calm and to the point.

Since you've obviously no grasp of this just yet, I'd like to point you in the direction of like minded folks that I'm sure you'll feel quite at home with.

I believe the WoW forums, are that-a-way -----> http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com .

Now, that being said. You make a point, half baked certainly, but it's a point none the less.

Does, RR as a development team, have any responsibility in the filtering of information to me, or people(s) like me, the future and potential players of TC or any other mmocenter.com Game for that matter?

In my oppinion, no, aboslutely not. They've no resposibility to that in the slightest. But, that also means I have a right to assume and attempt to interpret what I can from what little information they give out and try to make sense of it all. This is the PR value to being clear with your vision, with your goals and your wants, so that the community doesn't fall into speculation but grows with you based on solid ground.

You seem to support a community growing, well actually by your words it's quite obvious you could care less about "community", but I digress. You seem to support building a future plans on quick sand. I do not.

I want a game like TC and a team like RR to do well, I'd like to see them succeed, and all of my responses here were simply my oppinion on what I think is being done well and what is not, nothing more and nothing less. If you want to be beligerent and prove your self to be something your obviously not, then be my guest. I myself prefer an open venue where ideas can be discussed readily, openly and freely.

shae · May 2006

Originally posted by Bissrok
They're posting a summary of what they've done at E3 on the beta forums when they get back. At the moment they're still there.

Also, if you could post a link to this information that would be great. I've yet to see any information about this on the mmocenter.com forums that does not involve Africa.

drunkfatjew · May 2006

Shae, well said. No... perfectly said. Does any developer have any obligation to the community, no none. But that developer has to understand that in the absence of information the community (to the extent that one can exist in an informational void) is left to its own devices. Anyone whose studied sociology will tell you that a community left to its own devices generally heads into unpleasant directions (Lord of the Flies). Why would a company purposely keep an eager community in the dark?

My original comment regarding E3 was to illustrate a point. Which is that RR has *again* misled / misinformed / failed (pick your word here) to fullfill their statements.

For those interested in the Beta forums, its one of the most profoundly barren forums I've ever seen. Threads of half baked promises, accusations, and pleas for information. Which is just so amazing considering that this game is purportedly being released this year. Hell there are games being released next year with more information, better forums and more details than TC.

bverji · May 2006

Shae, well said. No... perfectly said. Does any developer have any obligation to the community, no none.

I totally disagree, they do have an obligation; it's a social obligation. Is it an obligation inforcable by law? No, however, that doesn't mean it's not an obligation. You hear this excuse all the time from fanboies and it just doesn't hold water. People have an obligation once they begin a discorse to continue that discourse. If someonewere to begin a conversation with you and then they just decided to walk off in the middle of it most people would be offended.

Likewise once a company begins communicating about their product they have created an associtation with those interested and have a social obligation to continue to communicate. How is it that a conmpany can create an expectation and then not be obligated to attemt to fill that expectation? Simple answer they can't.

That's why most people have lost interest with the game, have gotten upset w/ RR, and find the company to be uncredible. Their obligation can't be inforced by law perhaps, but it is being inforced by the community with their expression of their disatisfaction.

Elnator · May 2006

Until they're ready for a closed beta they don't really have any obligation whatsoever to share information with anyone. In fact, it's in their best interest NOT to as they probably want to protect their IP. Once they start talking about what the game is going to support the cat, as they say, is out of the bag.

Now, that said, it IS in their best interest to at least keep their fans informed on what is going on.

Personally I could care less. If they want to keep their audience in the dark and kill any chance of word-of-mouth adevertizing ? Up to them.

shae · May 2006

Originally posted by Elnator
Until they're ready for a closed beta they don't really have any obligation whatsoever to share information with anyone. In fact, it's in their best interest NOT to as they probably want to protect their IP. Once they start talking about what the game is going to support the cat, as they say, is out of the bag.

Now, that said, it IS in their best interest to at least keep their fans informed on what is going on.

Personally I could care less. If they want to keep their audience in the dark and kill any chance of word-of-mouth adevertizing ? Up to them.

And this is where I get so completely confused. I mean, I'm right there with you El, it's their right to do and say what they wish, as I've explained in my previous post, but it absolutely baffles me. Maybe I'm just not smart enough to figure it out, maybe it is really is just me but I just can't wrap my head around it.

I see a small start up developement company with, by everyone's account, very talented and passionate people on the payroll. This company needs to compete with some pretty big names, but that's ok, in todays market, just about anything is possible. To me this would also mean they need to use each and every posibility at their disposal to be succesful, does it not make sense that community support be at the very TOP of that list of posibility's ?

When I saw them hire CG, a passionate community member, I remember thinking to myself: "Wow, how great is that, these people really get it, they want the community to be part of the mix, part of the process, is that actually possible?"

Well, after some time, I guess it's actually not, at least not by RR. So now I'm just kinda left being confused and stumped, wondering and asking myself why they would take this road instead of the one that would give them a significant edge in the industry, a jump in the poles so to speak.

A smaller start up may not have the money, the man power or the experience of say an SOE, Blizzard or Mythic but they can develope a solid, loyal following that will go into hell and back right along side them, if only their given the chance, why is this such a hard concept to grasp ?

It's a shame, such a very very big shame.

New_to_MMO · May 2006

I'm guessing this was seen by everyone, but to answer the OP...it's still alive and supposedly some info in June...

Aside from Africa, Rapid Reality remains hard at work on its two other ventures: Endless Ages and The Chronicle.

At this time, there is little new to report on Endless Ages, save to say that there are finalizing their re-launch plans for the title, including distribution.

The Chronicle remains in full-scale development, with more information to be released sometime in June. Their current priorities are general polish and continuing to expand and improve the visual look of the game.

As a company, they’ve almost completed a round of hiring announced here a few months ago.

Long term, their plan is to launch MMOCenter.com. However, their ambitions have been toned down slightly. They still intend to work on multiple projects at once and hopefully launch a new title every year, once they get the initial glut out the door. However, while their development cycles will overlap, they no longer intend to try and launch more than one game at a time.

With this in mind, Machines has been paused while the company focuses on Africa, Endless Ages and The Chronicle.

DeletedAcct · May 2006

Originally posted by Bissrok
They're posting a summary of what they've done at E3 on the beta forums when they get back. At the moment they're still there.

Once more, calm the fuck down. They don't owe you the information (even if you pre-ordered) and they're not out to impress you.

Personally, I think that maybe since those "pre-orders" gave them money to add to the funding of this "project" that they very well do owe something to those people. Unless they want to refund everyone until they are ready and have their shit together. Thank god my pre-order came from a contest and I didn't actually pay for it. Saves me the request for a refund. In short, Blissrok, if your perception of what they owe or don't owe their community is shared by the devs themselves, then the game can rot for all I care. NEXT!!

shae · May 2006

Well I've been fairly vocal about the negative aspects of whats going on at RR in regards to TC but I think it's only fair that I mention the good along with the bad.

There seems to have been a "healthy" discussion over the last few days on the mmocenter.com forums, linky winky here:

http://www.mmocenter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1872

Now, CG hasn't offered any new information or even a reasoning behind such poor treatment of the community on behalf of RR BUT it is contact, contact with some emotion no less.

Does it make up for the complete lack of respect ? In my oppinion, not so much, but it's a step. It's an admission that someone over there knows that a problem within the community exists, now about all anyone can do is hope that steps are taken to correct the issues.

infra172 · May 2006

"
I was merely explaining why most of the Team does not frequent the
Forums. They're building something that they love, and positive outlook
on it is important to morale. If they come on here and see negativity,
their morale will fall. Some of them might loose their drive to come in
on weekends to stay ahead of schedule.

Attitudes here on the Forums can easily spread to the team working
on the game (this goes for any title). The more positive effect, the
more the team would most likely visit. I recall back in August and
September there was perhaps 1 bashing thread (by a Trials of Ascension
fanboy), and the Team was always checking the Forums and hanging out in
IRC in their offtime."

Its all our fault! They'd have the game out by now if we hadn't hurt their widdle feewings!

But seriously. What is wrong with these people? Who the hell do they think they are? Who the hell do they think pays the bills?

JelloB2000 · July 2006

[quote]Originally posted by bverji

Shae, well said. No... perfectly said. Does any developer have any obligation to the community, no none. [/b][/quote]

I totally disagree, they do have an obligation; it's a social obligation. (...)[/quote]

NO, its an obligation to the investors because a company that is not noticed & cannot maintain a customers attention cannot sell there products (mmorpg:s are products, nothing more nothing less).

If the game is released this year: who will actually try it? The people that have tried to look for information but found none or the people that dont even know it exists?

This is nothing new, there a ton of books on why companys fail & one of them is failure to get attention & maintain it (try college/high school books on marketing they usually have one chapter dedicated for big companies that died out because they stopped caring about pr & marketing).
(And empty hype destroys more than helps *cough*Mourning, D&L, D&D, AA, FoM*cough*.)

So no they dont need to do anything if they want to stay small & forgotten in a years time.
Edit: minor edit, quote might look messed up.

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