all i have to say is this game is going to rock! the only game im waiting for to come out. all the TRUE mmorpg players out there know what to look for in a mmorpg and this game hits it right on my g spot! a true mmorpg among a sea of fakes.
Originally posted by ENVIEEE all i have to say is this game is going to rock! the only game im waiting for to come out. all the TRUE mmorpg players out there know what to look for in a mmorpg and this game hits it right on my g spot! a true mmorpg among a sea of fakes.
1:A pvp kiddie does not make you a "real" mmorpg player
2:A fully based pvp mmorpg, which will result in just a big pointless battlefield, is not more of a "true" mmorpg then PVE based MMORPG's
3: Darkfall is a low budget mmorpg
4: Quality mmorpg's cost a lot of money.
It is, and it was never the pvp part which make darkfall a "real" mmorpg.
Sure, it is all about definition, but at least for me a real mmorpg is a virtual living world, where you, or better your charakter have
a) the freedom to do what ever he want to do
b) the posibilities to do what ever he want to do
c) living, dynamic world, and not a static world where the exakt same mob is always at the same place, or where the cities and the citizian are always in the same place, where everything is static
But well, look at all other mmorpgs, what can they offer?
- Mostly and in huge varity.. killing mobs. Within quests, dungeons, instances or whatever, but basicly it is killing mobs and this mobs are in the most part always in the same place.
- Ok, some other offer a little bit crafting, and some a good crafting system others no crafting at all.
- Trading, some offers trading of goods, dynamical or static with a real economy or with a static economy
- Exploring, well in the most games you can just one time explore the world, if you have seen everything the game is finished, because it does never change
- PvP, well in the most games it is just a advanced duel function, or some kind of arena fightings
- Empire Building, not a lot of games offer this
- City Building, again not a lot of games offer this
- Politics, politics about war(pvp), about economy(trade)..
Do you know just one game, which offers this possibilities, that you can do what you(or your charakter) want to do?
And have you the freedom to do this, or you are enforced to do this in special places, which are isolated from the rest, where the craftware is not compareable with the dropitems, or where trading is just in some auction houses, or even forced prices. Have you the freedom to pvp, or you are enforced to pvp in some special zones, instances?
That is the point, and that is the point, why a lot of people think Darkfall is maybe the only real mmorpg in development, because they try to give you enough or all thoughable possibilities, and the freedom to do it.
Damn, if you could me point to some other mmorpgs, which will offer anything like that i would be more than happy, but i do only know Darkfall, which will be released in the more or less near future.
The point is, UO(at least for me) tried to go in this direction, but they were limited technically, it was almost the first mmorpg, but there was almost no development or innovation from UO to todays mmorpgs. The most modern mmorpgs offers even much lesser than UO offered for almost 10 years..
That is the point.
PS: And i have even not talked about all features, i have nothing said about naval warfare/trading, piratery, caravans, highwaymens, mercenaries, dynamic mob spawn and mob development, about dynamic cities, city sieges, mounted combat, naval combat, ....
and yes there will be pk'ers ok but the whole point is that you can be the most powerful character and be able to be better then everyone else, in for instance WoW, or DAoC, or really any other mmo, that isnt possible. And you can still be descent in this game w/o having to play 65 hours a week. And when you do get ur skills to level 100, ok learn sum more now, say u got str. 1h swords, shield, and stamina. ok now throw in fire magic, or w/e u want. But this game isnt a end game raid based game, which takes like 5-13 hours to get one thing done, no once u get ur skills to the top, u can log on for 15 mins and get sumthing done still, or for 5 -13 hours and get alot done. Its all about fun. Not being obligated to raid every night with your guild. and waste 7 hours out of ur friday. But if u want to waste 7 hours of ur friday, u still can. But if u really like raiding repeadetly for hours adn hours and hours. the same thing over and over and over again until that one pissant piece of trash kinda ok armor drops for u and u end up still not getting it cuz it gets ninja'd or thers another of ur class tehre that rolled higher, well go play WoW....
Originally posted by Gameloading 2:A fully based pvp mmorpg, which will result in just a big pointless battlefield, is not more of a "true" mmorpg then PVE based MMORPG's
Pointless? In Darkfall you have to fight to keep or gain control of territory, builds, and items. In addition, since Darkfall uses a skill based system instead of level, you can also skill up during pvp. And from a more role-playing perspective, if some guild is taxing the people in their territory too much you can also fight oppression. Pvp has never been more meaningful. If you think all pvp is pointless you've been playing WoW too long.
Originally posted by Jenius Originally posted by Gameloading 2:A fully based pvp mmorpg, which will result in just a big pointless battlefield, is not more of a "true" mmorpg then PVE based MMORPG's
Pointless? In Darkfall you have to fight to keep or gain control of territory, builds, and items. In addition, since Darkfall uses a skill based system instead of level, you can also skill up during pvp. And from a more role-playing perspective, if some guild is taxing the people in their territory too much you can also fight oppression. Pvp has never been more meaningful. If you think all pvp is pointless you've been playing WoW too long.
Exactly, POINTLESS. everybody will just be focused on the pvp content, including the developers. It will just turn into a big all out pvp warzone. no roleplaying, just mindless killing. an ugly version of battlefield 2 (very ugly, I might add)
Exactly, POINTLESS. everybody will just be focused on the pvp content, including the developers. It will just turn into a big all out pvp warzone. no roleplaying, just mindless killing. an ugly version of battlefield 2 (very ugly, I might add)
The pvp is so meaningful it will become pointless. That makes a lot of sense. I think what you should have said was that pvp is so meaningful everything other than it will be pointless.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Jenius
Originally posted by Gameloading 2:A fully based pvp mmorpg, which will result in just a big pointless battlefield, is not more of a "true" mmorpg then PVE based MMORPG's
Pointless? In Darkfall you have to fight to keep or gain control of territory, builds, and items. In addition, since Darkfall uses a skill based system instead of level, you can also skill up during pvp. And from a more role-playing perspective, if some guild is taxing the people in their territory too much you can also fight oppression. Pvp has never been more meaningful. If you think all pvp is pointless you've been playing WoW too long.
Exactly, POINTLESS. everybody will just be focused on the pvp content, including the developers. It will just turn into a big all out pvp warzone. no roleplaying, just mindless killing. an ugly version of battlefield 2 (very ugly, I might add)
Wow. It's pretty obvious that you know nothing of Darkfall. There are a lot of morons going about saying that Darkfall is this hardcore battlefield game where you go out and KILLZ STUFFZ. I've been a member of the community for quite some time, and I can safely say that DF defines meaning. Everything you do in-game has meaning. The players evolve the world. It isn't just a bunch of random PvP with FPS and nice graphics. There is an extensive crafting system. Many players will devote many of their starting skills towards tradeskills.
I mean honestly, Darkfall offers so much, and is way, way beyond a meaningless battleground. Either stop talking about what you don't know, or go educate yourself. Darkfall (Official)
1:A pvp kiddie does not make you a "real" mmorpg player
2:A fully based pvp mmorpg, which will result in just a big pointless battlefield, is not more of a "true" mmorpg then PVE based MMORPG's
3: Darkfall is a low budget mmorpg
4: Quality mmorpg's cost a lot of money.
A mmorpg imo is a game world without instances (wow + gw, etc. are not mmorpgs imo) and has been cleverly build with non-linear gameplay in a living and breathing virtual world - meaning you can do what you want, play the game in a multitude of different ways.
A quality mmorpg don't need to cost alot of money. WoW probably cost alot of money, and its a disgrace to the genre. Obviously alot of people think its great, but mostly these people haven't played alot of other mmorpgs, or they come from the line of previous mindnumbing pve focused mmorpgs that wow builds on top off, or people simply don't have any alternatives, and only play it to stay in contact with their guildmates.
I have no clue how they do it - the people who keep playing it I mean, I personally quit after my first molten core run and went back to AC/DT. Wow is the exact opposite of a good mmorpg. It's a mind numbing neverending pve grind, where you fight the same boring boss mob day after day, month after month, year after year.
Darkfall on the other hand is pure mmorpg innovation. It tries to push the genre a quantum leap forward, its not just a mmorpg. It takes all the best parts of mmorpg gaming:
- a huge world, with endless possibilities and non-linear gameplay focused on player conflict to be the endgame instead of repetitive pve boss runs.
- player skill based pvp - meaning the skill of the player plays a huge role when determining the outcome of battles. In wow your equipment is the most important factore, in Darkfall its player skill. They have gone to great length discoraging zerging, examples are: a) no names over players heads, b) no skill less /target feature. So basicly what this means is a small coordinated group have a good chance vs a huge un coordinated zerg.
- and last but not least we have a sort of RTS meta game - featuring kingdom building and world conquest, mixed with a healthy dose of politics and lots of possibilities for intrigue.
Basily they could have rushed the game out the door, like SWG did, and let their customers pay for an unfinished game while they finished it the next 2 years. But it would probably get much the same result that as for swg - loosing most of the customer base.
Personally I would rather wait, and get a finished game. The only mistake Razorwax/Aventurine did, was the same one Wolfpack did with Shadowbane. They started advertising their game waaaaay too soon in the process - they probably should have waited until they had a locked the beta date before starting any real advertising.
Originally posted by KhaelSan Originally posted by Gameloading facts of life:
1:A pvp kiddie does not make you a "real" mmorpg player
2:A fully based pvp mmorpg, which will result in just a big pointless battlefield, is not more of a "true" mmorpg then PVE based MMORPG's
3: Darkfall is a low budget mmorpg
4: Quality mmorpg's cost a lot of money.
A mmorpg imo is a game world without instances (wow + gw, etc. are not mmorpgs imo) and has been cleverly build with non-linear gameplay in a living and breathing virtual world - meaning you can do what you want, play the game in a multitude of different ways.
it may be your oppinion, but its a FACT World of Warcraft is an MMORPG.
A quality mmorpg don't need to cost alot of money. WoW probably cost alot of money, and its a disgrace to the genre. Obviously alot of people think its great, but mostly these people haven't played alot of other mmorpgs, or they come from the line of previous mindnumbing pve focused mmorpgs that wow builds on top off, or people simply don't have any alternatives, and only play it to stay in contact with their guildmates.
thats just your way of saying: "I don't like it, so its not a good mmorpg and all those people that play it don't know what a real mmorpg is"
I have no clue how they do it - the people who keep playing it I mean, I personally quit after my first molten core run and went back to AC/DT. Wow is the exact opposite of a good mmorpg. It's a mind numbing neverending pve grind, where you fight the same boring boss mob day after day, month after month, year after year.
PVP does not make a game intresting. at all. for some it might, for most it doesn't. fighting the same boss mob? the end game, perhaps. but the normal game sure as hell doesn't. in fact, the quest are made this way that you WON'T be fighting the same mobs over and over again.
Darkfall on the other hand is pure mmorpg innovation. It tries to push the genre a quantum leap forward, its not just a mmorpg. It takes all the best parts of mmorpg gaming:
- a huge world, with endless possibilities and non-linear gameplay focused on player conflict to be the endgame instead of repetitive pve boss runs.
- player skill based pvp - meaning the skill of the player plays a huge role when determining the outcome of battles. In wow your equipment is the most important factore, in Darkfall its player skill. They have gone to great length discoraging zerging, examples are: a) no names over players heads, b) no skill less /target feature. So basicly what this means is a small coordinated group have a good chance vs a huge un coordinated zerg.
- and last but not least we have a sort of RTS meta game - featuring kingdom building and world conquest, mixed with a healthy dose of politics and lots of possibilities for intrigue.
The problem with it is simply this: A great sword will lose all its meaning. its just another weapon to kill another player. your character will become nothing more then just another tool to kill other players with it. all roleplaying aspects like a true fantasy world and deep dungeons will be wasted on this game. the only thing that will matter Is killing other players. you might want to play the game otherwise, but the game WILL turn into just a big battlefeld. mark my words.Darkfall is a game that will look better on paper then it will actually be once its finished. you probably will think that I have no idea what I'm talking about, and I can't blame you for that.the list of features is nice, but the PVE will be crap (thats the price you pay for "twitch" based gameplay, pve will always be much less fun) while it improves pvp, so everybody will just play pvp as PvE will be boring as hell. and THATS why darkfall will turn into battlefield 1500.
Basily they could have rushed the game out the door, like SWG did, and let their customers pay for an unfinished game while they finished it the next 2 years. But it would probably get much the same result that as for swg - loosing most of the customer base.
Personally I would rather wait, and get a finished game. The only mistake Razorwax/Aventurine did, was the same one Wolfpack did with Shadowbane. They started advertising their game waaaaay too soon in the process - they probably should have waited until they had a locked the beta date before starting any real advertising.
Originally posted by Gameloading The problem with it is simply this: A great sword will lose all its meaning. its just another weapon to kill another player. your character will become nothing more then just another tool to kill other players with it. all roleplaying aspects like a true fantasy world and deep dungeons will be wasted on this game. the only thing that will matter Is killing other players. you might want to play the game otherwise, but the game WILL turn into just a big battlefeld. mark my words.Darkfall is a game that will look better on paper then it will actually be once its finished. you probably will think that I have no idea what I'm talking about, and I can't blame you for that.the list of features is nice, but the PVE will be crap (thats the price you pay for "twitch" based gameplay, pve will always be much less fun) while it improves pvp, so everybody will just play pvp as PvE will be boring as hell. and THATS why darkfall will turn into battlefield 1500.
But in WOW everyone have legendary nasty looking shiny weapons. Everyone looks alike also. No one has just regular weapons, so the legendary weapons you speak of are not really that legendary, they are the standard.
And yeah when i referred to wow as a pve grind of course i mean the endgame. It's all about the endgame. Especially in a small world like in WOW. I mean it took me and my guildmates from 13-30 days to hit lvl 60, and that was ok fun, but after that... endless pve grind for years awaits you - thats when i quit - how some of my guildmates can stand this after years of the same I dont understand, and never will.
And is wow a mmorpg? Well it probably is, but think about it. After lvl 60 most people spend maybe 90% of their time in instanced lan-games. Guildwars? Not a mmorpg.. I would call it traditional multiplayer. Same thing with DDO - 90% of the game is group instances, playing out much like a regular multiplayer session in neverwinther nights or baldurs gate. And none of these 3 are living breathing worlds. So like I said, in my oppinion these are not "real" mmorpgs.
Think about this scenario that played out back in 2000 when me and my friends were playing AC Darktide. We had taken over the city of Ayan Baqur with our allies, the sell rates were the best in the game, and with our allies we were a force to be reckoned with.
Here we lived happily for some months. Then one day during the x-mas vacation, I log in and see the most feared enemy has taken over the city. We of course gather all friends, and try to fight back for a week or so, but in the end our enemies seems more determined and skilled. We have lost all our equipment and money from many deaths, so we scattered off to other towns.
AC/DT was a living breathing world, where players changed the landscape. The endgame was fighting over ressources and levelling spots. And it wasnt even build for this. It didnt have city building, or anythig. This meta-game was something the players invented.
Now Darkfall is build around this meta game of conquest. I am not saying everyone will like it, some would rather go in peace, and not fight other players at all, playing their mmorpg more in a casual way, being part of the community. But ALOT of people will love the aspects of the meta game I am talking about.
1:A pvp kiddie does not make you a "real" mmorpg player
2:A fully based pvp mmorpg, which will result in just a big pointless battlefield, is not more of a "true" mmorpg then PVE based MMORPG's
3: Darkfall is a low budget mmorpg
4: Quality mmorpg's cost a lot of money.
1. A MMORPG is a role playing game. PvP could actually be far more immersive if, character/story appropriate, than kill XXX of XXX quests.
2. The only "recent" (aka 2nd to 3rd generation MMORPGs) MMORPG I have found with a real storyline was FFXI pre CoP release. After that it kinda stopped having connections IMO. Now a continous war does not mean there is no story behind it, just because games like WoW and GW have no story behind their PvP doesn't mean all games must lack story to have PvP.
3. SoR is a low budget MMO and massively better than most games with 50% to 200% their budget. DOesn't matter how much cash you have if all you can make is a pretty box. Content takes more creativity than cash.
4. Nope, they need a lot of talent creating them. Good talent has a way of getting the cash they need, but no amount of cash will ever make up for lack of talent.
- and last but not least we have a sort of RTS meta game - featuring kingdom building and world conquest, mixed with a healthy dose of politics and lots of possibilities for intrigue.
The problem with it is simply this: A great sword will lose all its meaning. its just another weapon to kill another player. your character will become nothing more then just another tool to kill other players with it. all roleplaying aspects like a true fantasy world and deep dungeons will be wasted on this game. the only thing that will matter Is killing other players. you might want to play the game otherwise, but the game WILL turn into just a big battlefeld. mark my words.Darkfall is a game that will look better on paper then it will actually be once its finished. you probably will think that I have no idea what I'm talking about, and I can't blame you for that.the list of features is nice, but the PVE will be crap (thats the price you pay for "twitch" based gameplay, pve will always be much less fun) while it improves pvp, so everybody will just play pvp as PvE will be boring as hell. and THATS why darkfall will turn into battlefield 1500.
This doesn't make any sense, you are claiming that PvE in its curent form is somehow more complex than PvP and that PvE grind (killing same mindles mob a million times) gives more feeling of a real fantasy world and adds into roleplay? -Tell me, beside dancing night elves, how was there roleplay in WoW? Crafting is next to useless, no player owned houses, shops, NPC servants, no talking to opposite aligment and so on.
Of course, WoW is just one PvE grindgame but IMHO it clearly shows how restricted gameworld/lack of freedom only harms roleplaying.
And that because of open PvP and twitch combat somehow makes PvE crap in DF? How did you come to this conclusion? What I have read, even PvE is more challenging in DF than in any of the EQ clones curently in teh works. I for one am not going to fight all the time against other people, because of huge gameworld to explore, moving mob spawns, PvE events that only happen once, mobs building their own camps/fortresses and raiding clan cities, leet mobs that hunt you to worlds end and last but not least, demigods that roam the lands once in a while
Yeah you're right, PvE in this game doesn't sound interesting at all.
PVE does not make a game intresting. at all. for some it might, for most it doesn't. fighting the same boss mob? the end game, perhaps. but the normal game sure as hell doesn't. in fact, the quest are made this way that you WILL be fed through uninteresting, linear crap with the knowledge that everyone else has already done what your trying to accomplish so what your doing is worthless.
Darkfall on the other hand is pure mmorpg innovation. It tries to push the genre a quantum leap forward, its not just a mmorpg. It takes all the best parts of mmorpg gaming:
- a huge world, with endless possibilities and non-linear gameplay focused on player conflict to be the endgame instead of repetitive pve boss runs.
- player skill based pvp - meaning the skill of the player plays a huge role when determining the outcome of battles. In wow your equipment is the most important factore, in Darkfall its player skill. They have gone to great length discoraging zerging, examples are: a) no names over players heads, b) no skill less /target feature. So basicly what this means is a small coordinated group have a good chance vs a huge un coordinated zerg.
- and last but not least we have a sort of RTS meta game - featuring kingdom building and world conquest, mixed with a healthy dose of politics and lots of possibilities for intrigue.
The problem with a PvE game is simply this: A great sword is pointless, what are you gonna use it for, killing more mobs? its just another weapon to kill another mob with. your character will become nothing more then just another tool to kill other mobs with. all roleplaying aspects like a true fantasy world and deep dungeons will be wasted on PvE games because when did you ever see your favorite fantasy character grinding on overgrown rats and giant snakes? Nah, they were too busy killing PEOPLE for that nonsense, even the Warcraft books showcase this. the only thing that will matter Is killing other monsters. you might want to play the game otherwise, but the game WILL turn into just a big grindfest. mark my words.Darkfall is a game like any other game in development, you dont really know shit about it until youve got the opinion of those who have played it or uve played it yourself. you probably will think that I have no idea what I'm talking about, and I can't blame you for that.the list of features is nice, but the PVE will be dynamic, which make make it seem like less of a grind and provide for more interesting content, and the twitch combat style will keep things interactive (this isnt some mutant fps mut like swg, this is different), while it improves pvp, so everybody most people wiill play both pve and pvp, since both will be fun as hell. and THATS why darkfall will be the next great mmorpg for players looking for a true virtual world, hardcore pvp, and freedom.
Basily they could have rushed the game out the door, like SWG did, and let their customers pay for an unfinished game while they finished it the next 2 years. But it would probably get much the same result that as for swg - loosing most of the customer base.
Personally I would rather wait, and get a finished game. The only mistake Razorwax/Aventurine did, was the same one Wolfpack did with Shadowbane. They started advertising their game waaaaay too soon in the process - they probably should have waited until they had a locked the beta date before starting any real advertising.
shit flies both way Gameloading. dont you see that your mmorpg preferences differ from the majority who follow this game? Go away, there is no reason for you to look forward to this title.
oh there we go again. you say something negative about a game and voilá , your a troll.
fine then, if saying something negative about a game makes you a troll, then I am a troll. live with it, get used to it. at least I base my opinion on previous games that involved twitch based PVE, you on the other hand are led by emty promises of a small company with 20 developers in greece that are making a low budget title.and no, I won't go away. I have a right to state my opinion on the game, these are the not the official Darkfall forums. if you don't like negative comments about your precious game, then just ignore me.
about me saying the darkfall pve will be crap, I base that on Dungeon & Dragons online PvE, which is also "twitch" based. from what the gameplay trailer have shown us, the Darkfall PVE will be more or less the same. its boring. Darkfall is just too based on pvp to be succesfull. don't get me wrong, I'm a pvp fan myself. but if you throw THIS much pvp in the game, then things like equipment, your character and the world will lose their value. its all about killing the other players. its like a first person shooter, if you pick up that powerfull bazooka that makes you really strong. but you don't mind losing it, as you can find another weapons that will do the job as well. what I fear is that the game will just be a big battlefield, with nothing more then pvp ganking and fighting.
The Graphics look like something you'de see in Knight online or some free MMORPG.
My build: Sapphire Radeon HD 4850, Asus P5GC-MX/1333 Motherboard, 4gb G.SKILL DDR2 667MHz RAM, Core 2 Duo e7200 CPU, 250gb Western Digital SATA Harddrive, Windows Vista Home Basic 64-bit.
Originally posted by waike no one wants to hear anything form a WoW player.
thats funny, because I am a 100% sure that if I said "Darkfall will be the next big game, the best thing since sliced bread blabla" that you would suddenly care about what I have to say, despite me being a WoW player.
Comments
1:A pvp kiddie does not make you a "real" mmorpg player
2:A fully based pvp mmorpg, which will result in just a big pointless battlefield, is not more of a "true" mmorpg then PVE based MMORPG's
3: Darkfall is a low budget mmorpg
4: Quality mmorpg's cost a lot of money.
Sure, it is all about definition, but at least for me a real mmorpg is a virtual living world, where you, or better
your charakter have
a) the freedom to do what ever he want to do
b) the posibilities to do what ever he want to do
c) living, dynamic world, and not a static world where the exakt same mob is always at the same place, or
where the cities and the citizian are always in the same place, where everything is static
But well, look at all other mmorpgs, what can they offer?
- Mostly and in huge varity.. killing mobs. Within quests, dungeons, instances or whatever, but basicly it is
killing mobs and this mobs are in the most part always in the same place.
- Ok, some other offer a little bit crafting, and some a good crafting system others no crafting at all.
- Trading, some offers trading of goods, dynamical or static with a real economy or with a static economy
- Exploring, well in the most games you can just one time explore the world, if you have seen everything
the game is finished, because it does never change
- PvP, well in the most games it is just a advanced duel function, or some kind of arena fightings
- Empire Building, not a lot of games offer this
- City Building, again not a lot of games offer this
- Politics, politics about war(pvp), about economy(trade)..
Do you know just one game, which offers this possibilities, that you can do what you(or your charakter) want to do?
And have you the freedom to do this, or you are enforced to do this in special places, which are isolated from the rest, where the craftware is not compareable with the dropitems, or where trading is just in some auction houses, or even forced prices.
Have you the freedom to pvp, or you are enforced to pvp in some special zones, instances?
That is the point, and that is the point, why a lot of people think Darkfall is maybe the only real mmorpg in development, because they try to give you enough or all thoughable possibilities, and the freedom to do it.
Damn, if you could me point to some other mmorpgs, which will offer anything like that i would be more than happy, but i do only know Darkfall, which will be released in the more or less near future.
The point is, UO(at least for me) tried to go in this direction, but they were limited technically, it was almost the first mmorpg, but there was almost no development or innovation from UO to todays mmorpgs.
The most modern mmorpgs offers even much lesser than UO offered for almost 10 years..
That is the point.
PS: And i have even not talked about all features, i have nothing said about naval warfare/trading, piratery,
caravans, highwaymens, mercenaries, dynamic mob spawn and mob development, about dynamic cities, city sieges, mounted combat, naval combat, ....
Pointless? In Darkfall you have to fight to keep or gain control of territory, builds, and items. In addition, since Darkfall uses a skill based system instead of level, you can also skill up during pvp. And from a more role-playing perspective, if some guild is taxing the people in their territory too much you can also fight oppression. Pvp has never been more meaningful. If you think all pvp is pointless you've been playing WoW too long.
Pointless? In Darkfall you have to fight to keep or gain control of territory, builds, and items. In addition, since Darkfall uses a skill based system instead of level, you can also skill up during pvp. And from a more role-playing perspective, if some guild is taxing the people in their territory too much you can also fight oppression. Pvp has never been more meaningful. If you think all pvp is pointless you've been playing WoW too long.
Exactly, POINTLESS. everybody will just be focused on the pvp content, including the developers. It will just turn into a big all out pvp warzone. no roleplaying, just mindless killing. an ugly version of battlefield 2 (very ugly, I might add)
Pointless? In Darkfall you have to fight to keep or gain control of territory, builds, and items. In addition, since Darkfall uses a skill based system instead of level, you can also skill up during pvp. And from a more role-playing perspective, if some guild is taxing the people in their territory too much you can also fight oppression. Pvp has never been more meaningful. If you think all pvp is pointless you've been playing WoW too long.
Exactly, POINTLESS. everybody will just be focused on the pvp content, including the developers. It will just turn into a big all out pvp warzone. no roleplaying, just mindless killing. an ugly version of battlefield 2 (very ugly, I might add)
Wow. It's pretty obvious that you know nothing of Darkfall. There are a lot of morons going about saying that Darkfall is this hardcore battlefield game where you go out and KILLZ STUFFZ. I've been a member of the community for quite some time, and I can safely say that DF defines meaning. Everything you do in-game has meaning. The players evolve the world. It isn't just a bunch of random PvP with FPS and nice graphics. There is an extensive crafting system. Many players will devote many of their starting skills towards tradeskills.
I mean honestly, Darkfall offers so much, and is way, way beyond a meaningless battleground. Either stop talking about what you don't know, or go educate yourself. Darkfall (Official)
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A quality mmorpg don't need to cost alot of money. WoW probably cost alot of money, and its a disgrace to the genre. Obviously alot of people think its great, but mostly these people haven't played alot of other mmorpgs, or they come from the line of previous mindnumbing pve focused mmorpgs that wow builds on top off, or people simply don't have any alternatives, and only play it to stay in contact with their guildmates.
I have no clue how they do it - the people who keep playing it I mean, I personally quit after my first molten core run and went back to AC/DT. Wow is the exact opposite of a good mmorpg. It's a mind numbing neverending pve grind, where you fight the same boring boss mob day after day, month after month, year after year.
Darkfall on the other hand is pure mmorpg innovation. It tries to push the genre a quantum leap forward, its not just a mmorpg. It takes all the best parts of mmorpg gaming:
- a huge world, with endless possibilities and non-linear gameplay focused on player conflict to be the endgame instead of repetitive pve boss runs.
- player skill based pvp - meaning the skill of the player plays a huge role when determining the outcome of battles. In wow your equipment is the most important factore, in Darkfall its player skill. They have gone to great length discoraging zerging, examples are: a) no names over players heads, b) no skill less /target feature. So basicly what this means is a small coordinated group have a good chance vs a huge un coordinated zerg.
- and last but not least we have a sort of RTS meta game - featuring kingdom building and
world conquest, mixed with a healthy dose of politics and lots of possibilities for intrigue.
---
And for those who say: blah blah df is vaporware, blah blah blah... well check devs answer on beta and delay here:
http://www.the-combine.com/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleNo=327
Basily they could have rushed the game out the door, like SWG did, and let their customers pay for an unfinished game while they finished it the next 2 years. But it would probably get much the same result that as for swg - loosing most of the customer base.
Personally I would rather wait, and get a finished game. The only mistake Razorwax/Aventurine did, was the same one Wolfpack did with Shadowbane. They started advertising their game waaaaay too soon in the process - they probably should have waited until they had a locked the beta date before starting any real advertising.
Khael[SUN]
SUN - peekayin since pong
Webdeveloper on:
http://www.guildofsun.com
http://www.bloodmonarchy.com
it may be your oppinion, but its a FACT World of Warcraft is an MMORPG.
A quality mmorpg don't need to cost alot of money. WoW probably cost alot of money, and its a disgrace to the genre. Obviously alot of people think its great, but mostly these people haven't played alot of other mmorpgs, or they come from the line of previous mindnumbing pve focused mmorpgs that wow builds on top off, or people simply don't have any alternatives, and only play it to stay in contact with their guildmates.
thats just your way of saying: "I don't like it, so its not a good mmorpg and all those people that play it don't know what a real mmorpg is"
I have no clue how they do it - the people who keep playing it I mean, I personally quit after my first molten core run and went back to AC/DT. Wow is the exact opposite of a good mmorpg. It's a mind numbing neverending pve grind, where you fight the same boring boss mob day after day, month after month, year after year.
PVP does not make a game intresting. at all. for some it might, for most it doesn't. fighting the same boss mob? the end game, perhaps. but the normal game sure as hell doesn't. in fact, the quest are made this way that you WON'T be fighting the same mobs over and over again.
Darkfall on the other hand is pure mmorpg innovation. It tries to push the genre a quantum leap forward, its not just a mmorpg. It takes all the best parts of mmorpg gaming:
- a huge world, with endless possibilities and non-linear gameplay focused on player conflict to be the endgame instead of repetitive pve boss runs.
- player skill based pvp - meaning the skill of the player plays a huge role when determining the outcome of battles. In wow your equipment is the most important factore, in Darkfall its player skill. They have gone to great length discoraging zerging, examples are: a) no names over players heads, b) no skill less /target feature. So basicly what this means is a small coordinated group have a good chance vs a huge un coordinated zerg.
- and last but not least we have a sort of RTS meta game - featuring kingdom building and
world conquest, mixed with a healthy dose of politics and lots of possibilities for intrigue.
The problem with it is simply this: A great sword will lose all its meaning. its just another weapon to kill another player. your character will become nothing more then just another tool to kill other players with it. all roleplaying aspects like a true fantasy world and deep dungeons will be wasted on this game. the only thing that will matter Is killing other players. you might want to play the game otherwise, but the game WILL turn into just a big battlefeld. mark my words.Darkfall is a game that will look better on paper then it will actually be once its finished. you probably will think that I have no idea what I'm talking about, and I can't blame you for that.the list of features is nice, but the PVE will be crap (thats the price you pay for "twitch" based gameplay, pve will always be much less fun) while it improves pvp, so everybody will just play pvp as PvE will be boring as hell. and THATS why darkfall will turn into battlefield 1500.
And for those who say: blah blah df is vaporware, blah blah blah... well check devs answer on beta and delay here:
http://www.the-combine.com/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleNo=327
Basily they could have rushed the game out the door, like SWG did, and let their customers pay for an unfinished game while they finished it the next 2 years. But it would probably get much the same result that as for swg - loosing most of the customer base.
Personally I would rather wait, and get a finished game. The only mistake Razorwax/Aventurine did, was the same one Wolfpack did with Shadowbane. They started advertising their game waaaaay too soon in the process - they probably should have waited until they had a locked the beta date before starting any real advertising.
But in WOW everyone have legendary nasty looking shiny weapons. Everyone looks alike also. No one has just regular weapons, so the legendary weapons you speak of are not really that legendary, they are the standard.
And yeah when i referred to wow as a pve grind of course i mean the endgame. It's all about the endgame. Especially in a small world like in WOW. I mean it took me and my guildmates from 13-30 days to hit lvl 60, and that was ok fun, but after that... endless pve grind for years awaits you - thats when i quit - how some of my guildmates can stand this after years of the same I dont understand, and never will.
And is wow a mmorpg? Well it probably is, but think about it. After lvl 60 most people spend maybe 90% of their time in instanced lan-games. Guildwars? Not a mmorpg.. I would call it traditional multiplayer. Same thing with DDO - 90% of the game is group instances, playing out much like a regular multiplayer session in neverwinther nights or baldurs gate. And none of these 3 are living breathing worlds. So like I said, in my oppinion these are not "real" mmorpgs.
Think about this scenario that played out back in 2000 when me and my friends were playing AC Darktide. We had taken over the city of Ayan Baqur with our allies, the sell rates were the best in the game, and with our allies we were a force to be reckoned with.
Here we lived happily for some months. Then one day during the x-mas vacation, I log in and see the most feared enemy has taken over the city. We of course gather all friends, and try to fight back for a week or so, but in the end our enemies seems more determined and skilled. We have lost all our equipment and money from many deaths, so we scattered off to other towns.
AC/DT was a living breathing world, where players changed the landscape. The endgame was fighting over ressources and levelling spots. And it wasnt even build for this. It didnt have city building, or anythig. This meta-game was something the players invented.
Now Darkfall is build around this meta game of conquest. I am not saying everyone will like it, some would rather go in peace, and not fight other players at all, playing their mmorpg more in a casual way, being part of the community. But ALOT of people will love the aspects of the meta game I am talking about.
Alot of people want the "game" part back in mmorpgs - you know games in a traditional way has a looser and a winner. Maybe read http://www.guildofsun.com/Web/Site/News/Archive/Articles/A+SUN+Manifesto
Khael[SUN]
http://www.guildofsun.com
Khael[SUN]
SUN - peekayin since pong
Webdeveloper on:
http://www.guildofsun.com
http://www.bloodmonarchy.com
1. A MMORPG is a role playing game. PvP could actually be far more immersive if, character/story appropriate, than kill XXX of XXX quests.
2. The only "recent" (aka 2nd to 3rd generation MMORPGs) MMORPG I have found with a real storyline was FFXI pre CoP release. After that it kinda stopped having connections IMO. Now a continous war does not mean there is no story behind it, just because games like WoW and GW have no story behind their PvP doesn't mean all games must lack story to have PvP.
3. SoR is a low budget MMO and massively better than most games with 50% to 200% their budget. DOesn't matter how much cash you have if all you can make is a pretty box. Content takes more creativity than cash.
4. Nope, they need a lot of talent creating them. Good talent has a way of getting the cash they need, but no amount of cash will ever make up for lack of talent.
This doesn't make any sense, you are claiming that PvE in its curent form is somehow more complex than PvP and that PvE grind (killing same mindles mob a million times) gives more feeling of a real fantasy world and adds into roleplay?
-Tell me, beside dancing night elves, how was there roleplay in WoW? Crafting is next to useless, no player owned houses, shops, NPC servants, no talking to opposite aligment and so on.
Of course, WoW is just one PvE grindgame but IMHO it clearly shows how restricted gameworld/lack of freedom only harms roleplaying.
And that because of open PvP and twitch combat somehow makes PvE crap in DF? How did you come to this conclusion? What I have read, even PvE is more challenging in DF than in any of the EQ clones curently in teh works. I for one am not going to fight all the time against other people, because of huge gameworld to explore, moving mob spawns, PvE events that only happen once, mobs building their own camps/fortresses and raiding clan cities, leet mobs that hunt you to worlds end and last but not least, demigods that roam the lands once in a while
Yeah you're right, PvE in this game doesn't sound interesting at all.
seriously isnt every mmo pointless?
Quoted for Truth,
Gameloading your point is mute.
@ Everyone, everyone has their own style of play, for some DF potentially offers what they want, for others it doesnt.
Before the game is in beta that is all we can say.
Gameloading you obviously dont like the concept of this game, so why follow it? Oh thats right, you're a troll.
shit flies both way Gameloading. dont you see that your mmorpg preferences differ from the majority who follow this game? Go away, there is no reason for you to look forward to this title.
oh there we go again. you say something negative about a game and voilá , your a troll.
fine then, if saying something negative about a game makes you a troll, then I am a troll. live with it, get used to it. at least I base my opinion on previous games that involved twitch based PVE, you on the other hand are led by emty promises of a small company with 20 developers in greece that are making a low budget title.and no, I won't go away. I have a right to state my opinion on the game, these are the not the official Darkfall forums. if you don't like negative comments about your precious game, then just ignore me.
about me saying the darkfall pve will be crap, I base that on Dungeon & Dragons online PvE, which is also "twitch" based. from what the gameplay trailer have shown us, the Darkfall PVE will be more or less the same. its boring.
Darkfall is just too based on pvp to be succesfull. don't get me wrong, I'm a pvp fan myself. but if you throw THIS much pvp in the game, then things like equipment, your character and the world will lose their value. its all about killing the other players. its like a first person shooter, if you pick up that powerfull bazooka that makes you really strong. but you don't mind losing it, as you can find another weapons that will do the job as well. what I fear is that the game will just be a big battlefield, with nothing more then pvp ganking and fighting.
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