Originally posted by SonofSeth just like in EVE, good newbie can beat braindead veteran, period.
well, what happens if the newbie is in a raven and the veteran is on a freighter? or a tech 2 industrial? or even on a cruiser or battlecruiser? there is a big possibility that the veteran returns home on a pod.
or what if 5 new players with cruisers find a veteran player on a HAC or BS? probably, unless it is a domi or an ishtar, the veteran is gonna come back home on a pod. would 5 level 20 wow players beat a single level 60 player?
just like in EVE, good newbie can beat braindead veteran, period.
well, what happens if the newbie is in a raven and the veteran is on a freighter? or a tech 2 industrial? or even on a cruiser or battlecruiser? there is a big possibility that the veteran returns home on a pod.
or what if 5 new players with cruisers find a veteran player on a HAC or BS? probably, unless it is a domi or an ishtar, the veteran is gonna come back home on a pod. would 5 level 20 wow players beat a single level 60 player?
This is true but in rare cases. What I said earlier. It's a micro manager specialist game.
Not an accurate figure but say there are 300 elite set ups. 150 are to counter the other 150. The chances you will hit your elite counter set up is slim. I've had the 5 missle whore cruisers at the gate. I came out the other side in a Geddon. I was set up to absorb and move. With all injecotrs and a repair kit in low, an MWD and shield boosters in the middle. When I hit the gate, I was doing 2600 ms. They pounded me up bad but even the 5 cruisers simply didn't have enough time to cut through my resists in the 8 seconds it took to get to 1500 from gate. They would have slaughtered an Indy. My set up was aimed at getting my BS at max speed in minimum time, going in a straight line. For travel. Also good for transporting BPC's. Armor/ speed and minimal cargo.
There is no end all be all uber set up in Eve. There is a ying and a yang and hundreds of them.
Honestly I don't know why you hate eve as much as you do, but its clear you have an axe to grind and not an opjective perspective to share.
You don't understand because you and the other EVE fanatics around here really don't care about understanding.
I understand though, and I play EVE, like EVE, and understand where he is coming from.
Listen, its easy for me to say you don't understand because your a console junkie. You see what I did? I used your method of making a claim of fact without backing it up in any way what-so-ever. How am I an eve fanatic? please point it out. quote me. Was it where I criticised the skill training system in another thread on this board? Must make me a fanatic.
I understand that this game isn't for everyone, thats what I have been trying to point out. I may debate someones opinion that the game sucks because its just blob vs. blob because he would just be plain wrong. There are tons of small group and 1v1/2v2 opportunities in this game.
Defending the game from statements that are just plain wrong doesn't make me a fanatic. I'll never say eve is perfect. I'll never say any game is perfect. Fact is what is right for one person, isn't right for everyone. That doesn't make the game bad or the person's taste in games bad either.
Thats the point I made earlier, that you and others are STILL avoiding.
Originally posted by SonofSeth Just one thing, those who say that time spent and millions of skillpoints earned do not matter for PVP are either ignorant or stupid, it's like saying that WoW isn't gear dependednt at all, ofcourse, naked rogue CAN beat an Epic warrior, BUT, it is not trough Epic skills of the rogue, but rather trough "single-braincell skill's" of the warrior, just like in EVE, good newbie can beat braindead veteran, period.
I will agree with the skill point portion of this when you tell me how my level 5 crusier skill helps me when I fly my inty. But you won't, I've made this point many times on thier board and no one responds too it. Sure the time and experience help but thats not something specific to any one game.
To use your analogy: a human priest has tons of epic gear that help with healing (say similar to someone with 5mill in HAC related skills but only one mill in inty related ones. The priest has lots of healing bonus' but few damage ones.) That epic healing gear priest decides he wants to solo pvp. That epic gear doesn't help him much. (similar to how the 5mill in HAC skills only helps a small amount when inty flying.)
That is a pretty cut and dried summery of why vets are not better than newbies beyond pure player talent.
Well... thanks for your opinion. Give me your stuff. Play something else. NEXT!
We can agree to disagree, or we can bicker constantly... either way, I'm right. SobaKai.com There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
Originally posted by Raver Certainly everyone flames when i say it but EVE should either:
* Create an XP based server for poeple who need to see "the level above their head" as one responder put it * OR have some in game bonuses - EG 3 months free skill points if you play 3 months etc to give the newbie a bit of a boost.
FYI, when eve was 1st released it DID have a grind system included. the system was SEVERALLY ABUSED to the point where it was removed.
example: every time you activeded your afterburner u got a few points on that skill. the abuse= people logged in for days at a time just flying into a random direction and leaving the computer on thereby gaining skill's while not doing anything.
i've been playing for over 3 years. i have 2 char's, each having around 27 mill skillpoints. yet only 30% of the skills would be used depending on the ship i'm in.
i mean, if i'm piloting a interceptor the 2 mill skill points in that races BS and cruiser skill wouldn't even factor into it. i've seen 3 mill skill point people in interceptors take out battlecruisers simply because they knew how to use the ship they are in, and have set it up right for how they fight.
i think i have about 7 mill skillpoints that are used by all the ships(like navigation skills and stuff) but i have like 10 mill skill points in ship command skilltree alone, and with all those skill points in there, when in a firefight i would only use the 1 ship skill because i'm in just one ship.
Originally posted by SonofSeth Originally posted by apertotes well, what happens if the newbie is in a raven and the veteran is on a freighter? or a tech 2 industrial? Well, then he obviously isn't planing to fight, is he? I mean, you're not gonna race Dodge Viper in your delivery van, or are YOU?
yes, but can you find a level 60 WoW player not ready to fight?
Originally posted by SonofSeth Well, then he obviously isn't planing to fight, is he? I mean, you're not gonna race Dodge Viper in your delivery van, or are YOU?
I recommend not trying to "debate" with this guy. He's an avid flamer here in the Eve forums.
We can agree to disagree, or we can bicker constantly... either way, I'm right. SobaKai.com There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
Originally posted by allmus i mean, if i'm piloting a interceptor the 2 mill skill points in that races BS and cruiser skill wouldn't even factor into it. i've seen 3 mill skill point people in interceptors take out battlecruisers simply because they knew how to use the ship they are in, and have set it up right for how they fight. i think i have about 7 mill skillpoints that are used by all the ships(like navigation skills and stuff) but i have like 10 mill skill points in ship command skilltree alone, and with all those skill points in there, when in a firefight i would only use the 1 ship skill because i'm in just one ship.
Thank you. Thats what Ive been saying.
Im calling all you "Why play when you can never EVER catch up to the vets" guys out.
Respond to this line of reasoning or I will assume you have no response. I will assume you either wussed out, or admitted you were wrong.
Comments
well, what happens if the newbie is in a raven and the veteran is on a freighter? or a tech 2 industrial? or even on a cruiser or battlecruiser? there is a big possibility that the veteran returns home on a pod.
or what if 5 new players with cruisers find a veteran player on a HAC or BS? probably, unless it is a domi or an ishtar, the veteran is gonna come back home on a pod. would 5 level 20 wow players beat a single level 60 player?
well, what happens if the newbie is in a raven and the veteran is on a freighter? or a tech 2 industrial? or even on a cruiser or battlecruiser? there is a big possibility that the veteran returns home on a pod.
or what if 5 new players with cruisers find a veteran player on a HAC or BS? probably, unless it is a domi or an ishtar, the veteran is gonna come back home on a pod. would 5 level 20 wow players beat a single level 60 player?
This is true but in rare cases. What I said earlier. It's a micro manager specialist game.
Not an accurate figure but say there are 300 elite set ups. 150 are to counter the other 150. The chances you will hit your elite counter set up is slim. I've had the 5 missle whore cruisers at the gate. I came out the other side in a Geddon.
I was set up to absorb and move. With all injecotrs and a repair kit in low, an MWD and shield boosters in the middle. When I hit the gate, I was doing 2600 ms. They pounded me up bad but even the 5 cruisers simply didn't have enough time to cut through my resists in the 8 seconds it took to get to 1500 from gate. They would have slaughtered an Indy.
My set up was aimed at getting my BS at max speed in minimum time, going in a straight line. For travel. Also good for transporting BPC's. Armor/ speed and minimal cargo.
There is no end all be all uber set up in Eve. There is a ying and a yang and hundreds of them.
You don't understand because you and the other EVE fanatics around here really don't care about understanding.
I understand though, and I play EVE, like EVE, and understand where he is coming from.
Listen, its easy for me to say you don't understand because your a console junkie. You see what I did? I used your method of making a claim of fact without backing it up in any way what-so-ever. How am I an eve fanatic? please point it out. quote me. Was it where I criticised the skill training system in another thread on this board? Must make me a fanatic.
I understand that this game isn't for everyone, thats what I have been trying to point out. I may debate someones opinion that the game sucks because its just blob vs. blob because he would just be plain wrong. There are tons of small group and 1v1/2v2 opportunities in this game.
Defending the game from statements that are just plain wrong doesn't make me a fanatic. I'll never say eve is perfect. I'll never say any game is perfect. Fact is what is right for one person, isn't right for everyone. That doesn't make the game bad or the person's taste in games bad either.
Thats the point I made earlier, that you and others are STILL avoiding.
To use your analogy: a human priest has tons of epic gear that help with healing (say similar to someone with 5mill in HAC related skills but only one mill in inty related ones. The priest has lots of healing bonus' but few damage ones.) That epic healing gear priest decides he wants to solo pvp. That epic gear doesn't help him much. (similar to how the 5mill in HAC skills only helps a small amount when inty flying.)
That is a pretty cut and dried summery of why vets are not better than newbies beyond pure player talent.
Yeah, anyone leaving EVE, you may contact me and I'll gladly take your stuff too!
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
FYI, when eve was 1st released it DID have a grind system included. the system was SEVERALLY ABUSED to the point where it was removed.
example: every time you activeded your afterburner u got a few points on that skill. the abuse= people logged in for days at a time just flying into a random direction and leaving the computer on thereby gaining skill's while not doing anything.
i've been playing for over 3 years. i have 2 char's, each having around 27 mill skillpoints. yet only 30% of the skills would be used depending on the ship i'm in.
i mean, if i'm piloting a interceptor the 2 mill skill points in that races BS and cruiser skill wouldn't even factor into it. i've seen 3 mill skill point people in interceptors take out battlecruisers simply because they knew how to use the ship they are in, and have set it up right for how they fight.
i think i have about 7 mill skillpoints that are used by all the ships(like navigation skills and stuff) but i have like 10 mill skill points in ship command skilltree alone, and with all those skill points in there, when in a firefight i would only use the 1 ship skill because i'm in just one ship.
yes, but can you find a level 60 WoW player not ready to fight?
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
Recommendation noted, oh wait, wait a minute, you were talking about me, weren't you!?
Im calling all you "Why play when you can never EVER catch up to the vets" guys out.
Respond to this line of reasoning or I will assume you have no response. I will assume you either wussed out, or admitted you were wrong.
Well, i have about 20 mil SP and some weeks ago a 2 month old Player killed and Podded me,
we had a clear 1 vs 1, and i had the wrong ship and fitting for countering,
so there are ways to get down highSP player, and there are many of them.
to free2play, they overhauled the Mordus Headhunter Mission and it nearly killed of my BS, too.
That mission has class of a lower lvl 4 mission and hits nicely if you arent aware.
Anyway, thats happening after patches, get used to and use shuttles to check the stages before.
And if you cant take it alone, get someone along who can help you
( I know logistic Cruiser sound crazy but they are the God Mode Button
in Kill-Missions, i ride myself three of them, thats my specialisation)