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self proclaimed PvP games

kahnzkahnz Member Posts: 244

Why is it that self proclaimed PvP games are so PvE and level oriented?  I mean in MMORPGs that are supposed to be about massive battles only the people with the highest level characters are really a factor.  If you are even 10% in level below the highest level players then you are pretty much worthless.  What would be wrong with a game allowing 100 level 1 characters to be a factor against 10 level 40 characters.  In reality, massive battles are mostly chaos and many veteran soldiers have fallen to the stray bullet of a newb.  I know that a certain suspension of disbelief is required to play any game, and that most players want a feeling of acting out a heroic feat.  I just feel that in a game that is supposed to be PvP oriented a character's level should just be one factor instead of the only factor.

BTW I am saying "PvP", but I mean PvP and RvR in general.

Comments

  • RollinDutchRollinDutch Member Posts: 550


    Originally posted by kahnz

    Why is it that self proclaimed PvP games are so PvE and level oriented?  I mean in MMORPGs that are supposed to be about massive battles only the people with the highest level characters are really a factor.  If you are even 10% in level below the highest level players then you are pretty much worthless.  What would be wrong with a game allowing 100 level 1 characters to be a factor against 10 level 40 characters.  In reality, massive battles are mostly chaos and many veteran soldiers have fallen to the stray bullet of a newb.  I know that a certain suspension of disbelief is required to play any game, and that most players want a feeling of acting out a heroic feat.  I just feel that in a game that is supposed to be PvP oriented a character's level should just be one factor instead of the only factor.
    BTW I am saying "PvP", but I mean PvP and RvR in general.


    The game you are looking for is EVE. Tactics + Leadership > 'Levels', by a large margin.
  • joejccva71joejccva71 Member UncommonPosts: 848

    Personally I can't stand those massive battles between large groups of players for a couple reasons:

    1 - It's just a huge lag fest
    2 - It's almost impossible to kill anyone yourself because either you have trouble targetting them amongst the hundreds of other morons in the way, or it's because by the way you get to him, cast a spell or shoot your bow he's already dead. Again blaming lag.

    I personally like smaller battles, but that's just my opinion of course.

  • MinscMinsc Member UncommonPosts: 1,353


    Originally posted by kahnz

    Why is it that self proclaimed PvP games are so PvE and level oriented?  I mean in MMORPGs that are supposed to be about massive battles only the people with the highest level characters are really a factor.  If you are even 10% in level below the highest level players then you are pretty much worthless.  What would be wrong with a game allowing 100 level 1 characters to be a factor against 10 level 40 characters.  In reality, massive battles are mostly chaos and many veteran soldiers have fallen to the stray bullet of a newb.  I know that a certain suspension of disbelief is required to play any game, and that most players want a feeling of acting out a heroic feat.  I just feel that in a game that is supposed to be PvP oriented a character's level should just be one factor instead of the only factor.
    BTW I am saying "PvP", but I mean PvP and RvR in general.


    Because most games rely so heavily on gear and levels, because there is such a power variance between noobs and vets there is very little chance for a large group of lowbies to take out even a singe high-level character.

    There are a few games that buck this trend, GW being one as level 20 is max level and it takes very little time to get there, and EVE-Online being another, since gear means SFA and with the way skills work vets are not vastly more powerful than a group of noobs.

    Level-based and gear-based advancement is a poor game mechanic, but it's easy to program so lazy devs ftl.
  • chungalungchungalung Member Posts: 17
    i would imagine an mmo no matter the genre where theres pure player skills involverd.. action orientated.. the only thing that matters is your skills, and what armor or whatever stuff you have.

    but i think you need some type of advanced or eye candy style technology if you want to actually pretend that yer holding a sword instead of using keyboard + nouse.
  • MadAceMadAce Member Posts: 2,461



    Originally posted by chungalung
    i would imagine an mmo no matter the genre where theres pure player skills involverd.. action orientated.. the only thing that matters is your skills, and what armor or whatever stuff you have.

    but i think you need some type of advanced or eye candy style technology if you want to actually pretend that yer holding a sword instead of using keyboard + nouse.


    Try StarPort: Galactic Empires.  Twitch-based; higly strategical and kinda unique.
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  • JestunhiJestunhi Member UncommonPosts: 40


    Originally posted by RollinDutch

    Originally posted by kahnz
    Why is it that self proclaimed PvP games are so PvE and level oriented? I mean in MMORPGs that are supposed to be about massive battles only the people with the highest level characters are really a factor. If you are even 10% in level below the highest level players then you are pretty much worthless. What would be wrong with a game allowing 100 level 1 characters to be a factor against 10 level 40 characters. In reality, massive battles are mostly chaos and many veteran soldiers have fallen to the stray bullet of a newb. I know that a certain suspension of disbelief is required to play any game, and that most players want a feeling of acting out a heroic feat. I just feel that in a game that is supposed to be PvP oriented a character's level should just be one factor instead of the only factor.
    BTW I am saying "PvP", but I mean PvP and RvR in general.
    The game you are looking for is EVE. Tactics + Leadership > 'Levels', by a large margin.


    I Must be miss-reading this reply... It looks like he is saying Eve is an example of a game where levels don't matter?

    This couldn't be further from the truth... you will almost always be beaten by the guy with 5 million more skillpoints (months of training time) more than you.

  • RollinDutchRollinDutch Member Posts: 550


    Originally posted by Jestunhi




    I Must be miss-reading this reply... It looks like he is saying Eve is an example of a game where levels don't matter?
    This couldn't be further from the truth... you will almost always be beaten by the guy with 5 million more skillpoints (months of training time) more than you.


    You'll be beaten by him because he's smarter or luckier then you. A difference in skillpoints is a marginal edge in 1v1 fights and irrelevant next to leadership and tactics in group combat.

    Of course, the fact you dont know this already means that 'levels' not mattering is a problem for you - it means that the only real way to reliably win is to be smarter.
  • JestunhiJestunhi Member UncommonPosts: 40


    Originally posted by RollinDutch

    Originally posted by Jestunhi
    I Must be miss-reading this reply... It looks like he is saying Eve is an example of a game where levels don't matter?
    This couldn't be further from the truth... you will almost always be beaten by the guy with 5 million more skillpoints (months of training time) more than you.
    You'll be beaten by him because he's smarter or luckier then you. A difference in skillpoints is a marginal edge in 1v1 fights and irrelevant next to leadership and tactics in group combat.Of course, the fact you dont know this already means that 'levels' not mattering is a problem for you - it means that the only real way to reliably win is to be smarter.


    I havent played in a while... and in single PvP situations it can be less important (a good carrier pilot could drop a titan for example)... however i never lost once in PvP.

    Looking at what i typed i see i was a little bit carried away... however skill points is a major factor (not "always beat" as i said above :p)

  • kahnzkahnz Member Posts: 244

    well AoC sounds great, but I heard Funcom promise all kinds new things before AO was released and most of them didn't make it to Rubi-Kai (at least not at release).  Has AoC started beta?

    Not trying to bash Funcom BTW. I think AO was a pretty ballsy venture back in the day.  It's just that EVERY MMO to hit the market claims the same thing and then they produce a POS.  I usually don't even bother to look at advertisements or give much weight to press releases.  Marketing Departments and Game Development normally are miles apart (figuratively AND physically).

  • fredrik1fredrik1 Member Posts: 144


    Originally posted by kahnz
    Why is it that self proclaimed PvP games are so PvE and level oriented?  I mean in MMORPGs that are supposed to be about massive battles only the people with the highest level characters are really a factor.  If you are even 10% in level below the highest level players then you are pretty much worthless.  What would be wrong with a game allowing 100 level 1 characters to be a factor against 10 level 40 characters.  In reality, massive battles are mostly chaos and many veteran soldiers have fallen to the stray bullet of a newb.  I know that a certain suspension of disbelief is required to play any game, and that most players want a feeling of acting out a heroic feat.  I just feel that in a game that is supposed to be PvP oriented a character's level should just be one factor instead of the only factor.
    BTW I am saying "PvP", but I mean PvP and RvR in general.

    While not a mmorpg, wwiiol has no other perks for gaining experience than equipment.

    Even so as new and (sometimes) better equipment is researched the bar for which rank you must be to use them are lowered for all other equipment. So everyone always have a chance to compete, and skill is always the larger factor regardless of which equipment you use.


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