3-24-2006

bugzonlsd · July 2006

-ChrisCao-dev SOE-

Howdy again,

There's a lot of discussion going on and I wanted to jump-in at a more basic level to address the themes I see repeated again and again on this thread:

'Star Warsy' Game: I think this is the principle issue driving all of the furor surrounding SWG. I'll be honest, SWG wasn't launched as a Star Wars game first and foremost. Instead, other priorities such as crafting, vast world space, non-SW activities (e.g. Entertaining) and player-created activities were pushed ahead of the essential SW adventure. The people who wanted an online SW adventure tried it out and left. The people who liked the sandbox nature and deep crafting game stayed. But the general direction of JtL, CU, and the NGE were aimed at adventure. Why? Because we wanted to shift the game to first and foremost be about SW adventure.
- The question then becomes why, if you the community wanted a different game, did we go in this direction? To put it simply, we wanted to appeal to a broader SW audience. We wanted to play up the elements most people identify with from Star Wars. In some cases, this meant modifying or eliminating parts of the game that the existing community wanted. But, at the end of the day, we believe we can reach a balance between crafters and adventurers, between combat and non-combat professions, between those who want to live in a simulated world and those who want to live an online SW adventure. And that's why we're continuing to pursue the 'Star Warsy' direction we've established.
Rollback: People are asking for it. But, we aren't seriously considering it. Why? Well, nostalgia tends to color your view of the past. SWG has advanced in a lot of ways a rollback is an all-or-nothing return to what was before. The strides we've made forward would be eliminated (e.g. the quest system). The expansions and additions we've built would be affected. To put it simply, going forward, fixing the game, building on what we've established and refining the direction at hand is the best way to improve your day-to-day experience in the game.
The Future: With a diverse audience come diverse demands. As developers with limited time and resources, we need to choose what we want to focus on. And, to be blunt, SWG's has done a lot of things poorly in the past. There has been a lot of diversity, but very few of the options met the gameplay and quality expectations players expect. In fact, the posting history so regularly brought up by members of this forum (hello, Smugglers) shows just how diverse the ideas have been surrounding this game. And, to be honest, we can't meet all of those expectations.
- We are, however, staying true to the focus on the game we established. We've carved out a scope and direction that we can support and build. We've identified a core set of professions that we can grow and differentiate. We're building the groundwork to deliver a more compelling GCW experience. We're looking at solid solutions for crafting as a part of the future of the game. And, yes, we're putting a Smuggling system into the game.

To put it simply, we're going to keep pushing to refine and expand SWG first and foremost as a SW adventure. We're going to differentiate professions, add adventure content, revamp crafting to be a core part of the fundamental adventure economy, tie-in alternate activities like Entertaining, and work each day to improve the moment-to-moment experience of every player through continued bug fixes and quality improvements. We're not there yet, but as Publish 27 showed (and Publish 28 will continue to prove), we're on our way.

Just thought id throw in yet another pointless thread about the NGE.

bugzonlsd · July 2006

same day concerning the expertise system.

Helios_SOE wrote:

We recognize that the current profession system doesn't allow for any real level of character differentiation. As such, we're currently working on an "Expertise" system, that grants the players "points" to spend on specialization. The expertise system gives the profession system a similar feel to what we had pre-nge as far as character customization goes. The tech for this system is being developed for the next publish (this won't be visible to you guys). The publish after that, we're looking at pushing out the first two professions's worth of expertise trees, with two professions targeted for every publish after that. Generally speaking, we'll have three trees for each profession to choose from, including a GCW tree and a "path" tree that will hold things like "dark" and "light" side powers for Jedi, for instance (or droid specializtion, vs poisons for Bounty hunters - for instance).

That's the plan.

Distopia · July 2006

WOW it took him almost a year to think of a way to explain why they changed the game.

Give that man a cookie.

blondeh · July 2006

He said.... non-SW activities (e.g. Entertaining)

Just goes to show how fucking stupid they are

bugzonlsd · July 2006

Interesting reads people? one sec ill pull more.

Dskare · July 2006

Problem is there might not be anyone left above the age of 15 when they finally do what they say

Dhor, Radiant Galaxy

bugzonlsd · July 2006

One from the the man himself on 3-26-2006

Mr Helios lol.

So I made a comment about SWG moving away from being mostly a world simulation towards being more of a game. As there may have been some misunderstanding, I'll take a minute to clarify.

In any simulation the point is to model the real thing as close as possible in an effort to bring the experience to life. This generally only works well if the simulation is extremely accurate. A world simulation is one of the most complex kind of simulations you could think of building, involving literally billions of variables, knobs and switches that all interconnect in some harmonious manner.

Of course, an extremely accurate world simulation is not only beyond the capacity of a team of game developers to create but is also beyond the processing power of any computers available on the free market today. As such, when game developers create world "simulations" they already have to allow for a large number of inconsistencies (light sabers in SWG have never carried the danger of chopping off a limb, for instance).

World simulations are difficult to maintain because of their inherent lack of precision - there are no truly self governing systems. In addition, while extremely accurate world simulations may not be feasible with today's technology, world simulations with a dizzying number of rules, causes and effects certainly are. Such world simulation games typically suffer from an extreme learning curve and tend to foster unnatural and repetitive game play. I'm not saying that such undesireable gameplay is the result of the world simulation itself - no - it is instead a direct result of our inability to create extremely accurate world simulations. Everything computers do has a pattern to it, and humans have an innate ability to master patterns in the most efficient way possible. Only nature itself is truly random.

As you make more and more provisions for the lack of accuracy in your simulation you naturally gravitate towards a more pliable and "game-y" environment. A "simulation" and a "game" are in essence the same thing, only with varying degrees of accuracy.

This shift away from "simulation" and towards "game" can happen "orderly" as part of a conscious decision making process or it can happen "chaotically" as a side-effect of making provisions for an inaccurate simulation.

That being said, while we may have made a conscious decision to put more "game" into SWG, we are still endeavoring to provide an exciting Star Wars fantasy set in a persistent state world. Persistent state worlds do not necessarily imply "simulation", but they do imply things like community, a virtual society, an economy and other such things we gave grown to enjoy about SWG.

-Helios Titan
-Lead Designer, SWG
"No theory of reality compatible with quantum theory can require spatially separate events to be independent."

Firebird1 · July 2006

Throw in the database change and you have the other reason for no rollback. Granted I was hoping by now they would give a peace offering to the players who had their profession removed. Once this Expertise system is in place the dev team should have some more options on what to implement.

bugzonlsd · July 2006

I found this disgruntled individual trying to get his point across in a big way lol.

1OWND1 wrote:

BTW!!! TELL LUCASARTS TO UPDATE THIER WEBSITE ON TRIALS OF OBI-WAN..ITS STILL ADVERTISING TAMABLE CREATURES ON MUSTAFAR AMONG OTHER THINGS...AND thier site on SWG still refers to the old system

bugzonlsd · July 2006

bah bunk this one

Zaush · July 2006

this was my reply to Chris Cao, a thread I started the same day, that grew to 18 pages

As I read through dev tracker I started to finaly feel some hope that
this game may be saved for me although the lack of target lock is still
a big issue. Alot of good ideas and long long long overdue, serious,
and real communication about the current state of the game came out.

Then
ChrisCao enters the room. Just about every word that he said made the
hair on the back of my neck stand up. I get the feeling that he thinks
he is working on a single player, console action rpg, and not MMORPG. I
mean everything that he says about what his vision of the game has, 1.
already been done, and 2. are sitting by my PS2 collecting dust. The
fact that he discounts the feeling of a very large portion of this
playerbase, and Star Wars fans in general is inexcusable. I am not sure
how old he is, but it is clear to me he has no understanding of who I
am as a Star Wars fan, and what I want out of a Star Wars game. And I
know I speak for 100ks of fans.
A Star Wars virtual world is what we have always craved for. Not about all this heroic garbage.

Haven't
you ever watched the movies, and looked at the characters in the
background and asked yourself "who is that guy? I wonder what he does,
what his life is like, what stories he has to tell?" I have many times.
And that is what I think a Star Wars game should be about. Allowing us
to be that background character, and then building that story of who we
are in the galaxy, what we do, wether it is Atrigo Quint the
BH/Entertainer that own his own cantina, Zaush Du'mas, a smart and
dedicated Jedi who sole purpose is to help those in need, or a
Najothro, a proud Wookiee big game hunter and creature handler who is
mistrustful of most humans except for his long time friend Zaush.

What
you have done here, and what ChrisCao has completely discounted, is
what we used to have in the game, and what we all thought was special
and unique. I am persoanly insulted by not only his comments but by the
tone of his comments and his complete lack of respect for our feelings
and desires from a Star Wars game.

I understand that this game
failed to meet its projected financial and subscription goals that were
set for it in the orginal design. I also understand that SOE lacks the
expertise and resourced to adequatly maintain and expand on the old
game code. But to completly discount why alot of us played this game in
the 1st place, "Choose YOUR own path, and define YOUR role as you
prepare to take your rightful place in the Star Wars universe. You're
only limited by your imagination." This is quoted on the back the box
YOU Created. I want that feeling back, and after looking at the plan
and overall vision of this game, it looks to me that my hopes and
dreams of a Star Wars game that gives me the near unlimited freedom to
live out my own Star Wars adventure, how I choose it to be, is lost for
good. With SOE monopolizing the the Star Wars license for MMORPGs, it
is either the NGE or nothing. ChrisCaos comments where like a kick in
the teeth when I was already down.

bugzonlsd · July 2006

I hope in the end, when these guys are finally done changing the game it was worth all this anger, frustration, hate, cancelling and dissapointment, Or this has all been the biggest waste of time in MMo history.

Do I think the devs want the best for swg?

Yea I think they do.

Do I think the players want the best for swg?

Definetly.

Do I think the two are achieiving this ?

Not at all.

Whats the solution?

Only time will tell.

nthnaoun · July 2006

First of all I want to thank Bugzonlsd for posting this. Now on to the meat of my post.

It's about time we got an explanation. Now I'm not one of the disgruntle Vets. I played the game Pre-NGE and enjoyed it in one month spurts. But even then the game was boring and the only thing I wanted (Jedi) added even more boring to the picture.

I am unhappy with the changes, because I wanted Jedi to be special and it to be the Alpha class it is. I wanted it to be hard to get. It should have been a reward to people who Mastered their 2 proffesions and kept their account active for 1-2 years, plus after that, they should have had to do a long extensive line of quests that took you from being FS to learning the Force and then to the Jedi Knight Trials. You can fill in the blanks there.

I like the quest system they have now, hate the over the shoulder view and the new combat system, and I hate the reduction of melee oriented classes.

I guess what this means is that the Devs et al really aren't going to roll back or give us our own servers. Well I will keep checking the forums for changes, but this saddens me.

nthnaoun · July 2006

Originally posted by Zaush
this was my reply to Chris Cao, a thread I started the same day, that grew to 18 pages

As I read through dev tracker I started to finaly feel some hope that this game may be saved for me although the lack of target lock is still a big issue. Alot of good ideas and long long long overdue, serious, and real communication about the current state of the game came out.

Then ChrisCao enters the room. Just about every word that he said made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I get the feeling that he thinks he is working on a single player, console action rpg, and not MMORPG. I mean everything that he says about what his vision of the game has, 1. already been done, and 2. are sitting by my PS2 collecting dust. The fact that he discounts the feeling of a very large portion of this playerbase, and Star Wars fans in general is inexcusable. I am not sure how old he is, but it is clear to me he has no understanding of who I am as a Star Wars fan, and what I want out of a Star Wars game. And I know I speak for 100ks of fans.
A Star Wars virtual world is what we have always craved for. Not about all this heroic garbage.

Haven't you ever watched the movies, and looked at the characters in the background and asked yourself "who is that guy? I wonder what he does, what his life is like, what stories he has to tell?" I have many times. And that is what I think a Star Wars game should be about. Allowing us to be that background character, and then building that story of who we are in the galaxy, what we do, wether it is Atrigo Quint the BH/Entertainer that own his own cantina, Zaush Du'mas, a smart and dedicated Jedi who sole purpose is to help those in need, or a Najothro, a proud Wookiee big game hunter and creature handler who is mistrustful of most humans except for his long time friend Zaush.

What you have done here, and what ChrisCao has completely discounted, is what we used to have in the game, and what we all thought was special and unique. I am persoanly insulted by not only his comments but by the tone of his comments and his complete lack of respect for our feelings and desires from a Star Wars game.

I understand that this game failed to meet its projected financial and subscription goals that were set for it in the orginal design. I also understand that SOE lacks the expertise and resourced to adequatly maintain and expand on the old game code. But to completly discount why alot of us played this game in the 1st place, "Choose YOUR own path, and define YOUR role as you prepare to take your rightful place in the Star Wars universe. You're only limited by your imagination." This is quoted on the back the box YOU Created. I want that feeling back, and after looking at the plan and overall vision of this game, it looks to me that my hopes and dreams of a Star Wars game that gives me the near unlimited freedom to live out my own Star Wars adventure, how I choose it to be, is lost for good. With SOE monopolizing the the Star Wars license for MMORPGs, it is either the NGE or nothing. ChrisCaos comments where like a kick in the teeth when I was already down.

Nice post, but one thing. I like the movies and everything else Star Wars. But what draws me in is the Heroic Jedi. The Powers, the Lightsabers, the codes and the lore. All of it. Not the guy in the background. And no, I never asked myself who that guy in the background is. I am more inclined to believe the person who says that Jedi are what bring them to Star Wars. You can look at Pre-NGE and it will prove my point. Not everyone, but just about everyone was a Jedi, Grinding for Jedi, or was FS for FS powers.

Granted I want the same thing as you, but I want Jedi to be special and very hard to get. By hard, I mean it should be a reward to the dedicated and it should not be a wack a mole grind either. It should be time as an active subscriber, plus completion of a very long quest line. Then of course you have the wack a mole grind to become stronger in the force. But anyways...

MrArchy · July 2006

Originally posted by bugzonlsd

-ChrisCao-dev SOE-
Howdy again,
There's a lot of discussion going on and I wanted to jump-in at a more basic level to address the themes I see repeated again and again on this thread:

'Star Warsy' Game: I think this is the principle issue driving all of the furor surrounding SWG. This isn't the principle complaint of the majority of the refugees - that the current game sucks compared to prior incarnations is. On the topic of Star Warsy - this game isn't; consider the Jedi/BH fued you've created and fostered- then watch the films, the BH fued with Smugglers, not Jedi (Greedo vs. Han in Eisley, Jabba's posse w/ Fett vs Han and Chewie at the starport, Fett/IG-88/Bossk/Dengar vs Han in the asteroid field - the only Jedi/BH action happened because Fett was flirting w/ Special Edition Ents at Jabba's pad) Instead, other priorities such as crafting, vast world space yup, no vast world space in SW movies ever, non-SW activities (e.g. Entertaining yup, no Ents in Eisley in the movies, or in Jabba's Palace, etc.) and player-created activities which usually filled in for any missing Star Warsy elements were pushed ahead of the essential SW adventure. The people who wanted an online SW adventure tried it out and left nope - the ppl who thought it was too complex (see comments in next blue section) left, the peeps who thought it was an online SW adventure are now generally refered to as "Refugees".
The question then becomes why, if you the community wanted a different game, did we go in this direction? To put it simply, we wanted to appeal to a broader SW audience i.e., dumb it down since you couldn't be bothered at the time to compose a good introductory quest chain for new players. We wanted to play up the elements most people identify with from Star Wars i.e., you wanted to make everyone Jedi/Sith? They're just about the only "iconic" part of SW that no other game has. In some cases, this meant modifying or eliminating parts of the game that the existing community wanted after all, why should find a way to give your subs what they want, they're only paying customers. But, at the end of the day, we believe we can reach a balance between crafters you said (in previous paragraph) crafters weren't Star Warsy and adventurers, between combat and non-combat professions again, you just identified non-combs as not Star Warsy , between those who want to live in a simulated world and those who want to live an online SW adventure.
Rollback: People are asking for it. But, we aren't seriously considering it. Why? Well, nostalgia tends to color your view of the past. True. Very true. Agree 100% true. SWG has advanced not true, changed yes, but advanced no in a lot of ways a rollback is an all-or-nothing return to what was before. The strides we've made forward would be eliminated (e.g. the quest system what the ?!?! Not sure what this means, there have always been quests in this game). The expansions and additions we've built would be affected Roll them back too (except ToOW, obviously, you just might have to recode it) - you'd have some bugs in ROTW to fix, but you should already know what they are and what the fixes are - same w/ JTL. To put it simply, going forward, fixing the game, building on what we've established and refining the direction at hand is the best way to improve your day-to-day experience in the game. You've been screwing this up since CU (some would argue before then even), why should we trust you again?!?!?!?!
The Future: With a diverse audience come diverse demands. And, to be blunt, SWG's has done a lot of things poorly in the past. There has been a lot of diversity, but very few of the options met the gameplay and quality expectations players expect. Design and implement it better using, oh I don't know, TC maybe? Do crazy things like load test events for lag, or solicit for bugs and fix them before release? In fact, the posting history so regularly brought up by members of this forum (hello, Smugglers) shows just how diverse the ideas have been surrounding this game - yup, having Smugglers...... oh, I dunno..... smuggle - it's a very diverse idea indeed. And, to be honest, we can't meet all of those expectations. You really haven't met very many for a while now, don't worry about it.

We are, however, staying true to the focus on the game we established. Indeed - it's more fubar every time you devs touch it. We've carved out a scope and direction that we can support and build. We've identified a core set of professions that we can grow and differentiate. We're building the groundwork to deliver a more compelling GCW experience dropped from current development plan. We're looking at solid solutions for crafting as a part of the future of the game. And, yes, we're putting a Smuggling system into the game believe it when I see it, heard it before (many times).
To put it simply, we're going to keep pushing to refine and expand SWG first and foremost as a SW adventure. We're going to differentiate professions, add adventure content I thought Smed said no new content until bugs are fixed, revamp crafting to be a core part of the fundamental adventure economy can't be any less fundamental ATM, tie-in alternate activities like Entertaining but that's not Star Warsy by your argument, and work each day to improve the moment-to-moment experience of every player through continued bug fixes and quality improvements. We're not there yet, but as Publish 27 showed (and Publish 28 will continue to prove), we're on our way Chapter 1 says you're not.

Edited for main points, my comments in (Imperial) blue.

My thoughts - First, I contend the majority of players who don't like the current system wouldn't list the relative "Star Warsy"-ness as their primary gripe. I personally thought pre-CU and CU was plenty Star Warsy, esp after JTL was launched. I perceive the primary gripe to be that it's becoming a less fun and engaging gaming experience, in large part because it's being dumbed down.

Second, just listen to the damn players - not every single one, but listen to the dominant chorus. Great case in point -

DEVS: Whaddaya want?

PLAYERS: Hoth as PvP battleground

DEVS: k, here's JTL

PLAYERS: kewl, that's a great add, but we still want Hoth as PvP battleground

DEVS: k, here's Kashyyyk

PLAYERS: very nice, but we still want Hoth as PvP battleground - could probably fit with continuity pretty easily, too

DEVS: has nothing to do with continuity, but here's Mustafar

PLAYERS: hrmmm, k, we still want Hoth as PvP battleground

DEVS: k, here's Restuss, and no, the lag issues on TC won't carry over. We guarantee it.

In sum, these $OE drones are just fraggin' clueless.

Graviton · July 2006

Originally posted by MrArchy

Originally posted by bugzonlsd

-ChrisCao-dev SOE-
Howdy again,
There's a lot of discussion going on and I wanted to jump-in at a more basic level to address the themes I see repeated again and again on this thread:

'Star Warsy' Game: I think this is the principle issue driving all of the furor surrounding SWG. This isn't the principle complaint of the majority of the refugees - that the current game sucks compared to prior incarnations is. On the topic of Star Warsy - this game isn't; consider the Jedi/BH fued you've created and fostered- then watch the films, the BH fued with Smugglers, not Jedi (Greedo vs. Han in Eisley, Jabba's posse w/ Fett vs Han and Chewie at the starport, Fett/IG-88/Bossk/Dengar vs Han in the asteroid field - the only Jedi/BH action happened because Fett was flirting w/ Special Edition Ents at Jabba's pad) Instead, other priorities such as crafting, vast world space yup, no vast world space in SW movies ever, non-SW activities (e.g. Entertaining yup, no Ents in Eisley in the movies, or in Jabba's Palace, etc.) and player-created activities which usually filled in for any missing Star Warsy elements were pushed ahead of the essential SW adventure. The people who wanted an online SW adventure tried it out and left nope - the ppl who thought it was too complex (see comments in next blue section) left, the peeps who thought it was an online SW adventure are now generally refered to as "Refugees".
The question then becomes why, if you the community wanted a different game, did we go in this direction? To put it simply, we wanted to appeal to a broader SW audience i.e., dumb it down since you couldn't be bothered at the time to compose a good introductory quest chain for new players. We wanted to play up the elements most people identify with from Star Wars i.e., you wanted to make everyone Jedi/Sith? They're just about the only "iconic" part of SW that no other game has. In some cases, this meant modifying or eliminating parts of the game that the existing community wanted after all, why should find a way to give your subs what they want, they're only paying customers. But, at the end of the day, we believe we can reach a balance between crafters you said (in previous paragraph) crafters weren't Star Warsy and adventurers, between combat and non-combat professions again, you just identified non-combs as not Star Warsy , between those who want to live in a simulated world and those who want to live an online SW adventure.
Rollback: People are asking for it. But, we aren't seriously considering it. Why? Well, nostalgia tends to color your view of the past. True. Very true. Agree 100% true. SWG has advanced not true, changed yes, but advanced no in a lot of ways a rollback is an all-or-nothing return to what was before. The strides we've made forward would be eliminated (e.g. the quest system what the ?!?! Not sure what this means, there have always been quests in this game). The expansions and additions we've built would be affected Roll them back too (except ToOW, obviously, you just might have to recode it) - you'd have some bugs in ROTW to fix, but you should already know what they are and what the fixes are - same w/ JTL. To put it simply, going forward, fixing the game, building on what we've established and refining the direction at hand is the best way to improve your day-to-day experience in the game. You've been screwing this up since CU (some would argue before then even), why should we trust you again?!?!?!?!
The Future: With a diverse audience come diverse demands. And, to be blunt, SWG's has done a lot of things poorly in the past. There has been a lot of diversity, but very few of the options met the gameplay and quality expectations players expect. Design and implement it better using, oh I don't know, TC maybe? Do crazy things like load test events for lag, or solicit for bugs and fix them before release? In fact, the posting history so regularly brought up by members of this forum (hello, Smugglers) shows just how diverse the ideas have been surrounding this game - yup, having Smugglers...... oh, I dunno..... smuggle - it's a very diverse idea indeed. And, to be honest, we can't meet all of those expectations. You really haven't met very many for a while now, don't worry about it.

We are, however, staying true to the focus on the game we established. Indeed - it's more fubar every time you devs touch it. We've carved out a scope and direction that we can support and build. We've identified a core set of professions that we can grow and differentiate. We're building the groundwork to deliver a more compelling GCW experience dropped from current development plan. We're looking at solid solutions for crafting as a part of the future of the game. And, yes, we're putting a Smuggling system into the game believe it when I see it, heard it before (many times).
To put it simply, we're going to keep pushing to refine and expand SWG first and foremost as a SW adventure. We're going to differentiate professions, add adventure content I thought Smed said no new content until bugs are fixed, revamp crafting to be a core part of the fundamental adventure economy can't be any less fundamental ATM, tie-in alternate activities like Entertaining but that's not Star Warsy by your argument, and work each day to improve the moment-to-moment experience of every player through continued bug fixes and quality improvements. We're not there yet, but as Publish 27 showed (and Publish 28 will continue to prove), we're on our way Chapter 1 says you're not.

Edited for main points, my comments in (Imperial) blue.

My thoughts - First, I contend the majority of players who don't like the current system wouldn't list the relative "Star Warsy"-ness as their primary gripe. I personally thought pre-CU and CU was plenty Star Warsy, esp after JTL was launched. I perceive the primary gripe to be that it's becoming a less fun and engaging gaming experience, in large part because it's being dumbed down.

Second, just listen to the damn players - not every single one, but listen to the dominant chorus. Great case in point -

DEVS: Whaddaya want?

PLAYERS: Hoth as PvP battleground

DEVS: k, here's JTL

PLAYERS: kewl, that's a great add, but we still want Hoth as PvP battleground

DEVS: k, here's Kashyyyk

PLAYERS: very nice, but we still want Hoth as PvP battleground - could probably fit with continuity pretty easily, too

DEVS: has nothing to do with continuity, but here's Mustafar

PLAYERS: hrmmm, k, we still want Hoth as PvP battleground

DEVS: k, here's Restuss, and no, the lag issues on TC won't carry over. We guarantee it.

In sum, these $OE drones are just fraggin' clueless.

That was a beutifull post, made me laugh and cry at the same time.

Oh and Hoth as a pvp battle ground sounds like a good idea.

<-----SOE

oreyi · July 2006

Let's be realistic, they have been trying to convert a turd into a cake, and they can't be imbecile enough not to realize it isn't working.

I think they are "making time" until someone finishes a new MMOG about Star Wars.

Fignar · July 2006

Edited because my rant was too long so basically........

If you analyse what he's saying it boils down to this : "The game was too complex for us to use we didn't know how to code or implement anything the community wanted sorry for our lack of ability. During one of our crack binges what we did was decide to dumb the game down to a managable level reflecting our abilities and what we thought you were able to understand. We also have no ferking idea how to do any thing unique so we are ripping off ideas from WoW".

Shayde · July 2006

If nostalgia is coloring my opinion of pre-cu SWG, then what is coloring my opinion that the game currently blows goats?

kanezfan · July 2006

Originally posted by Shayde
If nostalgia is coloring my opinion of pre-cu SWG, then what is coloring my opinion that the game currently blows goats?

The brown poop that's staining all of it right now?

maxanto · July 2006

Originally posted by Shayde
If nostalgia is coloring my opinion of pre-cu SWG, then what is coloring my opinion that the game currently blows goats?

See Shayde its not fair. You make statements like this that just beg me to say something, but then I get reported for flaming you. It tears at me that I can't respond in a way I thought you thought was fun. Sorry if I hurt your feelings yesterday. I was a bit on the defensive from being flamed by everyone who is pro-emulation yadda yadda.

But your chat about my underware was a bit troubling...

almagill · July 2006

Originally posted by maxanto

Originally posted by Shayde
If nostalgia is coloring my opinion of pre-cu SWG, then what is coloring my opinion that the game currently blows goats?

See Shayde its not fair. You make statements like this that just beg me to say something, but then I get reported for flaming you. It tears at me that I can't respond in a way I thought you thought was fun. Sorry if I hurt your feelings yesterday. I was a bit on the defensive from being flamed by everyone who is pro-emulation yadda yadda.

But your chat about my underware was a bit troubling...

Get your head out of your underwear Max. You keep mentioning it as if you *want* us to keep thinking about it..

and it's distracting me from my daydream about Smed in a nylon wookiee suit dancing Exotic 4 with torches...

maxanto · July 2006

Originally posted by almagill

Originally posted by maxanto

Originally posted by Shayde
If nostalgia is coloring my opinion of pre-cu SWG, then what is coloring my opinion that the game currently blows goats?

See Shayde its not fair. You make statements like this that just beg me to say something, but then I get reported for flaming you. It tears at me that I can't respond in a way I thought you thought was fun. Sorry if I hurt your feelings yesterday. I was a bit on the defensive from being flamed by everyone who is pro-emulation yadda yadda.

But your chat about my underware was a bit troubling...

Get your head out of your underwear Max. You keep mentioning it as if you *want* us to keep thinking about it..

and it's distracting me from my daydream about Smed in a nylon wookiee suit dancing Exotic 4 with torches...

But you are right. I do want you to mull it over. Think about it all day, when you have your lunch, when you go to the potty after lunch, when you crawl in bed with your significant other... then really think about it.

Shayde · July 2006

Originally posted by maxanto

Originally posted by Shayde
If nostalgia is coloring my opinion of pre-cu SWG, then what is coloring my opinion that the game currently blows goats?

See Shayde its not fair. You make statements like this that just beg me to say something, but then I get reported for flaming you. It tears at me that I can't respond in a way I thought you thought was fun. Sorry if I hurt your feelings yesterday. I was a bit on the defensive from being flamed by everyone who is pro-emulation yadda yadda.

But your chat about my underware was a bit troubling...

I have no idea who reported you.. I'm just thinking a mod thought you said something questionable.

Don't get me started on underwear again... I just saw a Vicky's Secret ad, and you don't want those mental pictures.

On that note.. neither do I.

maxanto · July 2006

Originally posted by Shayde

Originally posted by maxanto

Originally posted by Shayde
If nostalgia is coloring my opinion of pre-cu SWG, then what is coloring my opinion that the game currently blows goats?

See Shayde its not fair. You make statements like this that just beg me to say something, but then I get reported for flaming you. It tears at me that I can't respond in a way I thought you thought was fun. Sorry if I hurt your feelings yesterday. I was a bit on the defensive from being flamed by everyone who is pro-emulation yadda yadda.

But your chat about my underware was a bit troubling...

I have no idea who reported you.. I'm just thinking a mod thought you said something questionable.

Don't get me started on underwear again... I just saw a Vicky's Secret ad, and you don't want those mental pictures.

On that note.. neither do I.

HA! I justremembered when Homer got a vision of Barney (from the simpsons) wearing the same outfit from "I dream of Genie"... He was even humming the tune of the show... it was... troubling.

Zaush · July 2006

Originally posted by nthnaoun

Originally posted by Zaush
this was my reply to Chris Cao, a thread I started the same day, that grew to 18 pages

As I read through dev tracker I started to finaly feel some hope that this game may be saved for me although the lack of target lock is still a big issue. Alot of good ideas and long long long overdue, serious, and real communication about the current state of the game came out.

Then ChrisCao enters the room. Just about every word that he said made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I get the feeling that he thinks he is working on a single player, console action rpg, and not MMORPG. I mean everything that he says about what his vision of the game has, 1. already been done, and 2. are sitting by my PS2 collecting dust. The fact that he discounts the feeling of a very large portion of this playerbase, and Star Wars fans in general is inexcusable. I am not sure how old he is, but it is clear to me he has no understanding of who I am as a Star Wars fan, and what I want out of a Star Wars game. And I know I speak for 100ks of fans.
A Star Wars virtual world is what we have always craved for. Not about all this heroic garbage.

Haven't you ever watched the movies, and looked at the characters in the background and asked yourself "who is that guy? I wonder what he does, what his life is like, what stories he has to tell?" I have many times. And that is what I think a Star Wars game should be about. Allowing us to be that background character, and then building that story of who we are in the galaxy, what we do, wether it is Atrigo Quint the BH/Entertainer that own his own cantina, Zaush Du'mas, a smart and dedicated Jedi who sole purpose is to help those in need, or a Najothro, a proud Wookiee big game hunter and creature handler who is mistrustful of most humans except for his long time friend Zaush.

What you have done here, and what ChrisCao has completely discounted, is what we used to have in the game, and what we all thought was special and unique. I am persoanly insulted by not only his comments but by the tone of his comments and his complete lack of respect for our feelings and desires from a Star Wars game.

I understand that this game failed to meet its projected financial and subscription goals that were set for it in the orginal design. I also understand that SOE lacks the expertise and resourced to adequatly maintain and expand on the old game code. But to completly discount why alot of us played this game in the 1st place, "Choose YOUR own path, and define YOUR role as you prepare to take your rightful place in the Star Wars universe. You're only limited by your imagination." This is quoted on the back the box YOU Created. I want that feeling back, and after looking at the plan and overall vision of this game, it looks to me that my hopes and dreams of a Star Wars game that gives me the near unlimited freedom to live out my own Star Wars adventure, how I choose it to be, is lost for good. With SOE monopolizing the the Star Wars license for MMORPGs, it is either the NGE or nothing. ChrisCaos comments where like a kick in the teeth when I was already down.

Nice post, but one thing. I like the movies and everything else Star Wars. But what draws me in is the Heroic Jedi. The Powers, the Lightsabers, the codes and the lore. All of it. Not the guy in the background. And no, I never asked myself who that guy in the background is. I am more inclined to believe the person who says that Jedi are what bring them to Star Wars. You can look at Pre-NGE and it will prove my point. Not everyone, but just about everyone was a Jedi, Grinding for Jedi, or was FS for FS powers.

Granted I want the same thing as you, but I want Jedi to be special and very hard to get. By hard, I mean it should be a reward to the dedicated and it should not be a wack a mole grind either. It should be time as an active subscriber, plus completion of a very long quest line. Then of course you have the wack a mole grind to become stronger in the force. But anyways...

I agree 100% about Jedi. I was ver dishearten to see how Jedi was treated in game, from both SOE and the playerbase. When I did things with my Jedi charcter I always asked myslef, "Is this something that a Jedi would do?" I was so discouraged to see Jedi Questing for loot etc.

I guess a Star Wars purist, Jedi should be played a certian way, and have meaning in the game, and not just some other profession. It was sad to see how Jedi players acted in game, and the roles they took on.

I guess I would rather see a Star Wars MMORPG set in the Old Republic era, and have Jedi optainable through similar means as KOTOR I.

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3-24-2006

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