While I hate some of the actions Sony has taken in the past (I'm a Planetsider) I also can't help but feel that the maturity of the endless SOE bashing is really, truly unfounded. We can all agree mistakes were made and SOE flubbed the goose, but...
Eh. There are a lot of good people at SOE and sometimes
No ones bashing specific employees at grunt level. Working on a top notch mmorpg title will give you a decent notch on your CV when SOE goes bankrupt. Unfortunately some of the TSRs are incompetent and the CRS sit around all day drinking beer and locking all posts that mention smedleys incompetence, the success story of swgemu or people asking for a refund. But Im sure the devs are sorted - Bugs dont have anyones name on to place blame ... or do they?
-- Note: PlayNC will refuse to allow you access to your account if you forget your password and can't provide a scanned image of the product key for the first product you purchased..... LOL
Originally posted by Malakai Originally posted by KenshuAni Originally posted by Malakai The one thing that many people seem to forget is that everyone at SOE and LA loves video games wants to do the best for SWG. Sure they might have made a big mistake, but they did not want to leave SWG to die a slow death which was what it was doing. Especially being that it has the Star Wars named attached to it. So they rolled the dice and lost. Sometimes you have to take a chance to get anywhere and thats what they did. No one at any game company WANTS to piss of their customers. They all want there players to be happy, but sometimes not all ideas work. Just my 2 cents. Sorry if it was long winded.
I basicly agree with with the excluded part of your post, except for EQ/EQ2. But that is opinion, and I won't bother trying to disagree with that. I definately do not condone any threats to SOE beyond boycotting them.
The problem I have is that you seem to think we should forgive them for their risky endeavor.
1) They purposefully made a change to a game that they KNEW would upset their current subscribers.
2) They then released the NGE unfinished on to those customers that they knew they would upset.
This wasn't taking a risk and losing. This was complete incompetance. I really do hope that someone high up in the company gets fired for this decision as it would be an example for other game developers to not do something so completely stupid!
Actually I never said anywhere in my post that everyone should just forgive them for SWG, nor was it implied. I just simply meant that I think many people react a little too harshly over a game. If you do not like what SOE/LA did to SWG by all means vote with your dollar and cancel your accounts. Email them and let them know you are not happy with the changes. Or simply post in various forums about how unhappy you are. But by all means please keep it civil. We can all express our displeasure without going to far.
Whenever I see people saying that Smedley is some kind of ultimate evil and that they would not even piss on him if he were on fire,(yes I have seen that comment made before) it just makes me shake my head. That is just taking things a little too far. If someone is going to get worked up that much where they feel that much hostility towards a game developer, then maybe they should not be playing these games in the first place. Perhaps the money would be better spent on a good psychology book or anger management courses. It is after all just a game.
I based my assumption from the highlighted portion above. It would appear that I was incorrect, but I think I made a reasonable assumption.
I do agree with you that many people have gone to far using rhetoric. I think that such over heated words do not help.
I agree with your post 100%. I personally blame the leadership. Why blame the paddler when its the captain that turns the rudder? A change in "leadership" would have given me thought to possibly consider another sony game in the future. As it stands with their current attitude of customer exploitation, I'm not going back. I did the same, I cancelled my whole station access because of my disgust with what they did to SWG. The "CU" revamp was a cloning of EQII combat. At the time I figured that was an effort to consolidate support and codebase. Then they just gutted the whole game, presumably to get more out of the license from Lucasarts. Whoever decided that, should leave with immense appologies, and new leadership should come in with promises to make the game something of what it was.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one letting my money talk when it comes to SOE. SOE won't listen to customers ideas, critiisms, etc. Due to the facts mentioned in the previous sentence the logical way to get their attention is by taking your money elsewhere. I know it sucks to leave something that you put so much time into but trust me guys if we all continue to leave in large numbers SOE will either adapt and learn a hard lesson or drop off the MMO map, in my eyes either of these choices are better than the current situation. Again I applaud those such as Vmaxxx who send a message to SOE that people do have the power to force SOE to listen to the customer or be left with empty games and empty pockets.
Originally posted by Malakai /Agree. Well said, I feel the same way. It amazes me that people bash SOE as a whole, but yet it is only SWG for the most part that is the subject of hatred. EQ has been around for a long time surviving and thriving. It does pretty darn good for a game its age. Do I agree with all the changes they have made to Everquest over the years? No, not at all. But it is still a great game and some of the changes were good. Everquest 2 went from being a good mmorpg to a great mmorpg. I love the changes they made and feel that the direction they are headed with it is wonderful. It is the game that holds my interest the most out of all the games out there. There was a time when I played WoW and loved it, but it soon got very boring so I left. I can certainly understand people being upset about the whole SWG situation, but even in that case some of the comments that people make towards the SOE/LA team that works on SWG is rather harsh. I have even seen comments where people want to inflict physical harm on the SOE/LA team. I mean common lets get real . The one thing that many people seem to forget is that everyone at SOE and LA loves video games wants to do the best for SWG. Sure they might have made a big mistake, but they did not want to leave SWG to die a slow death which was what it was doing. Especially being that it has the Star Wars named attached to it. So they rolled the dice and lost. Sometimes you have to take a chance to get anywhere and thats what they did. No one at any game company WANTS to piss off their customers. They all want their players to be happy, but sometimes not all ideas work. Just my 2 cents. Sorry if it was long winded.
Explain this one then. How come SOE is the only company that charges you for each content patch (e.g. Adventure Packs)? I think SOE as a whole is greedy and it shows not only with SWG, but with EQ and EQ2 with their numerous adventure packs and expansions. SOE needs to either lower their monthly fee to accomodate the costs of adventure packs or make the adventure packs free. Right now, other games offer their content patches for free and just push out an expansion once a year for about $30 or so. Hell some games even offer their expansions for free.
I liked EQ2 okay, but they destroyed it for me when they changed how you get to your final class. I liked starting out as a nobody and then working for the next class up. Now I start out as a Paladin instead of working for it. That combined with the money hungry adventure packs and the inability to play this game on an average computer is why I won't play this game.
Too bad. Someone at the top should take responsibility for how the potentially great product of SWG was so deeply mismanaged. The recent increase in Station Access fees is another example of mismanagement that must have been approved by Smedley. If you have to buy each game box separately and you cannot log into more than one game at a time and the individual game prices haven't increased, then raising the Station Access fee was pure "whatever the market will bare" greed. SOE will die a long slow death under Smedley.
Speaking as a member of the 'corporate world' and having seen CEO's get "fired" before:
While it may be 'technically' true that Smed is still the CEO, IF he was fired it wouldn't be "pack your bags, you're gone" it would be: "As soon as we find your replacement you are gone. Please go home, don't come to the office and don't discuss company policies or business with anyone outside SOE"
So while Smed may, or may not, be CEO still... that statement, taken at face value, may be entirely true but Smed may still be fired
Not saying it is... but Corporate doublespeak used to protect stock value is not at all uncommon when a CEO is terminated. They can't just FIRE a CEO. Stock would take a tremendous hit. They usually find the replacement prior to announcing the departure of the former CEO. Basically saying that the Rumor could very well still be true, even given this announcement.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Not sure it will matter if it is true or not. SWG was the first mmorpg game I ever played but for some reasonit always seemed it took a back seat to eq and the devlopment of eq2. After eq2 was realsed swg seemed tog et more attation for awhile then all the changes seemed to hit. The thing I never got was I knew the wow players they wanted would always post they were just playing swg till wow came out. So there were never going to come back so to me they semmed like a lost cause.
Originally posted by Malakai It amazes me that people bash SOE as a whole, but yet it is only SWG for the most part that is the subject of hatred. EQ has been around for a long time surviving and thriving. It does pretty darn good for a game its age. Do I agree with all the changes they have made to Everquest over the years? No, not at all. But it is still a great game and some of the changes were good. Everquest 2 went from being a good mmorpg to a great mmorpg. I love the changes they made and feel that the direction they are headed with it is wonderful. It is the game that holds my interest the most out of all the games out there. There was a time when I played WoW and loved it, but it soon got very boring so I left. I can certainly understand people being upset about the whole SWG situation, but even in that case some of the comments that people make towards the SOE/LA team that works on SWG is rather harsh. I have even seen comments where people want to inflict physical harm on the SOE/LA team. I mean common lets get real . The one thing that many people seem to forget is that everyone at SOE and LA loves video games wants to do the best for SWG. Sure they might have made a big mistake, but they did not want to leave SWG to die a slow death which was what it was doing. Especially being that it has the Star Wars named attached to it. So they rolled the dice and lost. Sometimes you have to take a chance to get anywhere and thats what they did. No one at any game company WANTS to piss off their customers. They all want their players to be happy, but sometimes not all ideas work. Just my 2 cents. Sorry if it was long winded.
I agree with your points about the physical harm and vandalization of property as completely wrong. However, to let the SOE leadership off the hook for the ruination of SWG is the far other extreme. I stopped playing EQII for that reason. There was no commitment or guarantee they woudn't do the same WoWization to it. There was no reason to continue with Station Access because frankly, I didn't care to start all over playing a game that was so horribly buggy. The game had become something, I didn't buy. Its like taking your hummer to have repairs and coming out with a volkswagen bug engine in it. Its not what I went in with, and I'm not paying for it. The attitudes in the forums were oblivious. All complaints about what was on the test servers were ignored as rantings of a disturbed few. The "leadership" openly mocked those concerns in personal interviews, before and after the conversion. So no, SOE leadership, even after calm review still gets a failing grade. They did gamble, and they lost, they lost subscribers who expected better. The coders and devs shouldn't berate themselves for the leaderships lack of vision.
Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by Malakai /Agree. Well said, I feel the same way. It amazes me that people bash SOE as a whole, but yet it is only SWG for the most part that is the subject of hatred. EQ has been around for a long time surviving and thriving. It does pretty darn good for a game its age. Do I agree with all the changes they have made to Everquest over the years? No, not at all. But it is still a great game and some of the changes were good. Everquest 2 went from being a good mmorpg to a great mmorpg. I love the changes they made and feel that the direction they are headed with it is wonderful. It is the game that holds my interest the most out of all the games out there. There was a time when I played WoW and loved it, but it soon got very boring so I left. I can certainly understand people being upset about the whole SWG situation, but even in that case some of the comments that people make towards the SOE/LA team that works on SWG is rather harsh. I have even seen comments where people want to inflict physical harm on the SOE/LA team. I mean common lets get real . The one thing that many people seem to forget is that everyone at SOE and LA loves video games wants to do the best for SWG. Sure they might have made a big mistake, but they did not want to leave SWG to die a slow death which was what it was doing. Especially being that it has the Star Wars named attached to it. So they rolled the dice and lost. Sometimes you have to take a chance to get anywhere and thats what they did. No one at any game company WANTS to piss off their customers. They all want their players to be happy, but sometimes not all ideas work. Just my 2 cents. Sorry if it was long winded.
Explain this one then. How come SOE is the only company that charges you for each content patch (e.g. Adventure Packs)? I think SOE as a whole is greedy and it shows not only with SWG, but with EQ and EQ2 with their numerous adventure packs and expansions. SOE needs to either lower their monthly fee to accomodate the costs of adventure packs or make the adventure packs free. Right now, other games offer their content patches for free and just push out an expansion once a year for about $30 or so. Hell some games even offer their expansions for free.
I liked EQ2 okay, but they destroyed it for me when they changed how you get to your final class. I liked starting out as a nobody and then working for the next class up. Now I start out as a Paladin instead of working for it. That combined with the money hungry adventure packs and the inability to play this game on an average computer is why I won't play this game.
Well, I am going to have to beg to differ with you on both points and heres why. The first statement is flat out incorrect. SOE has added plenty of free content over the course of their patch history. As a matter of fact I just recently looked at the patch history again and saw several new zones/instances that they added for free which were not tied to any expansion or adventure pack. Here is the link to the whole update history for you to look at for yourself-
Also I would not classify the adventure packs as mere "content patches". They are more like mini expansions or mega sized adventures which are offered at a small price. They are purely optional and have no impact on the game. I do not own any of them, but I will probably spring for the Fallen Dynasty one because it sounds pretty good. Also anyone who is currently a Station Access subscriber at the time when the pack comes out gets it for free.
Your last point is valid though because it is your opinion and I respect that . I disagree though as do many other players(which is what initiated the change) that having the archtype system removed was a bad idea. The archtype system while having good intentions and was well thought out created the problem of killing replayability. The simple fact of the matter was if you had one type of class and you wanted to try another, you had to go through 19 levels of generic skills all over again. And if your new class is in the same archtype like a mage for instance, it was even worse because now you were doing EXACTLY the same thing as last time.
Also another reason why they did it was it made more sense. If you were an evil Troll on his way to be a dreaded shadow knight. Why do you also have holy spells? That was a turn off to alot of other people. Most people wanted to feel like a shadow knight, necromancer, paladin, etc. from day one. Even if it was a weak version of the class.
Comments
--
Note: PlayNC will refuse to allow you access to your account if you forget your password and can't provide a scanned image of the product key for the first product you purchased..... LOL
I basicly agree with with the excluded part of your post, except for EQ/EQ2. But that is opinion, and I won't bother trying to disagree with that. I definately do not condone any threats to SOE beyond boycotting them.
The problem I have is that you seem to think we should forgive them for their risky endeavor.
1) They purposefully made a change to a game that they KNEW would upset their current subscribers.
2) They then released the NGE unfinished on to those customers that they knew they would upset.
This wasn't taking a risk and losing. This was complete incompetance. I really do hope that someone high up in the company gets fired for this decision as it would be an example for other game developers to not do something so completely stupid!
Actually I never said anywhere in my post that everyone should just forgive them for SWG, nor was it implied. I just simply meant that I think many people react a little too harshly over a game. If you do not like what SOE/LA did to SWG by all means vote with your dollar and cancel your accounts. Email them and let them know you are not happy with the changes. Or simply post in various forums about how unhappy you are. But by all means please keep it civil. We can all express our displeasure without going to far.
Whenever I see people saying that Smedley is some kind of ultimate evil and that they would not even piss on him if he were on fire,(yes I have seen that comment made before) it just makes me shake my head. That is just taking things a little too far. If someone is going to get worked up that much where they feel that much hostility towards a game developer, then maybe they should not be playing these games in the first place. Perhaps the money would be better spent on a good psychology book or anger management courses. It is after all just a game.
I based my assumption from the highlighted portion above. It would appear that I was incorrect, but I think I made a reasonable assumption.
I do agree with you that many people have gone to far using rhetoric. I think that such over heated words do not help.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one letting my money talk when it comes to SOE. SOE won't listen to customers ideas, critiisms, etc. Due to the facts mentioned in the previous sentence the logical way to get their attention is by taking your money elsewhere. I know it sucks to leave something that you put so much time into but trust me guys if we all continue to leave in large numbers SOE will either adapt and learn a hard lesson or drop off the MMO map, in my eyes either of these choices are better than the current situation. Again I applaud those such as Vmaxxx who send a message to SOE that people do have the power to force SOE to listen to the customer or be left with empty games and empty pockets.
Peace
Explain this one then. How come SOE is the only company that charges you for each content patch (e.g. Adventure Packs)? I think SOE as a whole is greedy and it shows not only with SWG, but with EQ and EQ2 with their numerous adventure packs and expansions. SOE needs to either lower their monthly fee to accomodate the costs of adventure packs or make the adventure packs free. Right now, other games offer their content patches for free and just push out an expansion once a year for about $30 or so. Hell some games even offer their expansions for free.
I liked EQ2 okay, but they destroyed it for me when they changed how you get to your final class. I liked starting out as a nobody and then working for the next class up. Now I start out as a Paladin instead of working for it. That combined with the money hungry adventure packs and the inability to play this game on an average computer is why I won't play this game.
Speaking as a member of the 'corporate world' and having seen CEO's get "fired" before:
While it may be 'technically' true that Smed is still the CEO, IF he was fired it wouldn't be "pack your bags, you're gone" it would be: "As soon as we find your replacement you are gone. Please go home, don't come to the office and don't discuss company policies or business with anyone outside SOE"
So while Smed may, or may not, be CEO still... that statement, taken at face value, may be entirely true but Smed may still be fired
Not saying it is... but Corporate doublespeak used to protect stock value is not at all uncommon when a CEO is terminated. They can't just FIRE a CEO. Stock would take a tremendous hit. They usually find the replacement prior to announcing the departure of the former CEO. Basically saying that the Rumor could very well still be true, even given this announcement.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Not sure it will matter if it is true or not. SWG was the first mmorpg game I ever played but for some reasonit always seemed it took a back seat to eq and the devlopment of eq2. After eq2 was realsed swg seemed tog et more attation for awhile then all the changes seemed to hit. The thing I never got was I knew the wow players they wanted would always post they were just playing swg till wow came out. So there were never going to come back so to me they semmed like a lost cause.
Oh well I am a totaly newbie
Explain this one then. How come SOE is the only company that charges you for each content patch (e.g. Adventure Packs)? I think SOE as a whole is greedy and it shows not only with SWG, but with EQ and EQ2 with their numerous adventure packs and expansions. SOE needs to either lower their monthly fee to accomodate the costs of adventure packs or make the adventure packs free. Right now, other games offer their content patches for free and just push out an expansion once a year for about $30 or so. Hell some games even offer their expansions for free.
I liked EQ2 okay, but they destroyed it for me when they changed how you get to your final class. I liked starting out as a nobody and then working for the next class up. Now I start out as a Paladin instead of working for it. That combined with the money hungry adventure packs and the inability to play this game on an average computer is why I won't play this game.
Well, I am going to have to beg to differ with you on both points and heres why. The first statement is flat out incorrect. SOE has added plenty of free content over the course of their patch history. As a matter of fact I just recently looked at the patch history again and saw several new zones/instances that they added for free which were not tied to any expansion or adventure pack. Here is the link to the whole update history for you to look at for yourself-
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=269.
Also I would not classify the adventure packs as mere "content patches". They are more like mini expansions or mega sized adventures which are offered at a small price. They are purely optional and have no impact on the game. I do not own any of them, but I will probably spring for the Fallen Dynasty one because it sounds pretty good. Also anyone who is currently a Station Access subscriber at the time when the pack comes out gets it for free.
Your last point is valid though because it is your opinion and I respect that
. I disagree though as do many other players(which is what initiated the change) that having the archtype system removed was a bad idea. The archtype system while having good intentions and was well thought out created the problem of killing replayability. The simple fact of the matter was if you had one type of class and you wanted to try another, you had to go through 19 levels of generic skills all over again. And if your new class is in the same archtype like a mage for instance, it was even worse because now you were doing EXACTLY the same thing as last time.
Also another reason why they did it was it made more sense. If you were an evil Troll on his way to be a dreaded shadow knight. Why do you also have holy spells? That was a turn off to alot of other people. Most people wanted to feel like a shadow knight, necromancer, paladin, etc. from day one. Even if it was a weak version of the class.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7