Many people who have played EQ1 felt that Erudites were black.
I played multiple characters in WoW and was able to create a female human black character.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
I haven't bothered to read all the posts so if it's been covered ignore me.
Erudites in EQ didn't have large foreheads so you could see them as intellectuals or to make fun of black people. The reason they had large heads is the same reason they're black and have evolved to the strange figures they are in EQ2. The lore on Erudites states that they deal with so much magic on their home isle that it has a mutating effect.
I agree with the OP to a certain extent but i think there just needs to be more diversity overall. Honestly though its the last thing in this world i'll devote my time to worrying about. I'm a white guy that played a black guy in eq1, a japanese guy in EVE and a chinese guy in SRO.
Originally posted by Hohbein Originally posted by ladylore
Originally posted by Hohbein TBH i think this is one of the most pointless whines i've come across in some time. there are plenty of black people characters throughout single player games (too many to mention right now), and as for MMO's there's ALWAYS an option to play a black character.
Not all MMOs. Most, but not all.
Name one
Silkroad online, for one. Gods and Heroes, for another that is coming. But one is based on Asia and one on romans so I think it makes sense for them to not necessarily have diverse characters. Infact, TBH i was personally quite annoyed that in EQ1, if you were an Erudite, you HAD to be black (i personally would quite like to have played a white erudite). But you don't see me complaining about it, do you?
LOL - yes, you are complaining about it right now!
I'm not complaining, I'm stating my opinion.
You stated the opinion it was annoying that Erudites had to be black. That is a complaint. If it is just an opinion, then by your definition, so is the OP. You can make pretty much any race you like in an MMO, be it chinese, indian, whatever.. It's easily doable with different skin tones etc.
I find your line about "In EverQuest the black people had obnoxiously large foreheads - wtf was up with that. At least they were the most intelligent race though." quite offensive, you seem to be suggesting that black people should always be portrayed as more intelligent than others in games, I'm not saying black people can't be intelligent, but you are quite blatently claiming one race is superior to another (which in any case is nonsense).
I guess you never played EverQuest? It was part of EQ's story that the Erudites were the most intelligent race. He wasn't making an assumption or trying to be offensive, simply stating that although he found them to be ugly, at least they weren't ugly AND stupid. Try not to be so sensitive about this subject, eh? That wasn't how it sounded, or how I think he was trying to say it. That is exactly why I took the time to clarify it for you.
I really find it irritating when people (of ANY race) go out of their way to take offense to quite obviously non-offensive things.
Ditto. Try following your own advice, eh my friend? Since when was I your friend? You aren't. Just being polite.
Originally posted by ladylore Originally posted by Hohbein
Originally posted by ladylore
Originally posted by Hohbein TBH i think this is one of the most pointless whines i've come across in some time. there are plenty of black people characters throughout single player games (too many to mention right now), and as for MMO's there's ALWAYS an option to play a black character.
Not all MMOs. Most, but not all.
Name one
Silkroad online, for one. Gods and Heroes, for another that is coming. But one is based on Asia and one on romans so I think it makes sense for them to not necessarily have diverse characters. Silkroad online isn't a game, and gods and heroes hasn't yet been released, so whether or not it will encorperate black people etc is yet to be seen.
Infact, TBH i was personally quite annoyed that in EQ1, if you were an Erudite, you HAD to be black (i personally would quite like to have played a white erudite). But you don't see me complaining about it, do you?
LOL - yes, you are complaining about it right now!
I'm not complaining, I'm stating my opinion.
You stated the opinion it was annoying that Erudites had to be black. That is a complaint. If it is just an opinion, then by your definition, so is the OP.
I was simply stating that, although I had in the past been annoyed by the fact I couldn't be a white erudite, I had never felt the urge to create a thread on an MMORPG website about it, as the OP has. You can make pretty much any race you like in an MMO, be it chinese, indian, whatever.. It's easily doable with different skin tones etc.
I find your line about "In EverQuest the black people had obnoxiously large foreheads - wtf was up with that. At least they were the most intelligent race though." quite offensive, you seem to be suggesting that black people should always be portrayed as more intelligent than others in games, I'm not saying black people can't be intelligent, but you are quite blatently claiming one race is superior to another (which in any case is nonsense).
I guess you never played EverQuest? It was part of EQ's story that the Erudites were the most intelligent race. He wasn't making an assumption or trying to be offensive, simply stating that although he found them to be ugly, at least they weren't ugly AND stupid. Try not to be so sensitive about this subject, eh? That wasn't how it sounded, or how I think he was trying to say it. That is exactly why I took the time to clarify it for you.
Even though you may have clarified it, I still don't think that was infact the OP's intention.
I really find it irritating when people (of ANY race) go out of their way to take offense to quite obviously non-offensive things.
Ditto. Try following your own advice, eh my friend? Since when was I your friend? You aren't. Just being polite. That's just rude..
Originally posted by Force83 more of it all, i find it strange that most caucasions are humans and native americans are the opposing race(s).
i dunno what you mean by that (im half apache indian) but i have noticed that in other industries besides games (like history books and movies and other stuff) native americans always seem to be the "bad guy" i havent noticed it in games but a perfect example of what im talking about is...
in my history book this year we were learning about american westward expansion and about the battles with native american tribes throughout the northern states and everytime native americans lost a battle they called it a vicotry and every time they won a battle it was called a massacre (Battle of Little Big Horn) only a about a hundred or so american troops died but somehow its called a massacre when it was a battle (unlike how american troops masacred 100s of native american women and children at sand creek)
but anyway to be on topic i dont think this subject has come up in many of the game developing companies.... i think they only think about it like this "well if we dont have any black people we might get sued" so they let people make black characters and drop the subject right there =/
Is anyone else upset that in most video games (at least in all of my favorite ones) all the cool (human) main characters are always white? I was watchin an episode of The Boondocks, which btw Adult Swim rarely shows and most of the jackass hardcore adult swim fans think is the worst show on Adult Swim (prolly cuz they're all too white to appreciate it's value and uniqueness), where they showed Huey and his brother as really cool anime-samurai-martial artist characters and I thought 'man, I wish there were actually some black characters in anime or in my favorite video games.' Now, I'm black so of course I'd like to see some cool black characters that I could love; but I also think that other races of video game players should be represented more too. I also know that some games do have black characters - but on the rare occasion that they do, they're always retarded...at least in my favorite games. Final Fantasy VII had Barrett...I don't think I need to explain how lame and sterotypical Barrett was. I think Sephiroth shoulda been black... having nothing else about him changed - just made black. In EverQuest the black people had obnoxiously large foreheads - wtf was up with that. At least they were the most intelligent race though. And in EQII they stop being black and pretty much turn into alien-looking creatures...again, wtf. WoW has no black humans. Guild Wars lets you make a black character but I've yet to see a single NPC, or even PC, who is black. Oblivion has a black human race but I didn't like that game much.
As for like other races like hispanic, middle-eastern, indian, and etc. they're like non-existant. Anyways...yeah. /rant.
A thread with the exact same subject of your thread was once posted in another forum. Here is the solution to the "problem" you see:
1. You mention anime. Guess what? Rent the "Animatrix" DVD, and watch the commentary about the history of anime. The originator of Asian anime saw there were zero Asian characters in Walt Disney cartoons. He was a BIG fan of Walt Disney. So what did he do? Did he wait around for Disney to make Asian characters? Did he petition Disney? Did he go around boycotting Disney? NO, no, and no. He instead MADE HIS OWN ASIAN cartoons. Now known as Anime.
Ever hear of DC Comics? Marvel Comics? There was a group of Nubian-Americans.....
(Black-American, and African-American are actually missnomers. European explorer named Leo Africanus said no one lived on this new contenent he FIRST discovered. And named the entire continent after himself! "Blacks" never called theirselves "Blacks" or "blacks" before the Europeans met them. Black is an old English word meaing evil, demoic, un-holy, etc... Just like "whites" never called theirselves "whites" originally. White is an old English word meaning good, just, holy, righteous.
.... a group of Nubian-Americans got together. They saw there were no, to few, Nubian-Americans in comics. Did they petition DC and Marvel comics? Did they call for a boycott of DC and Marvel Comics? NO, no, and no. They instead MADE THEIR OWN NUBIAN-AMERICAN comics/cartoons. The name of their company if my memory serves me right, is "Mile High Comics". They grew sooo big that they rivialed DC Comics! Yes, Superman was sweating. If no one buys Superman, then he litterally ... dies.
Get off your butt, and go visit Barnes and Noble, or your local bookstore. Go read the mini-bio on the creator of "Boondocks". The guy himself told how he saw no, to few Nubian-Americans in comics, cartoons, etc... Did he petition Charles Schultz? Or the other comic creators? Did he boycott comics? NO, no, and no. He instead, MADE HIS OWN Nubian-American comic! And he was college age when he first started.
The point? You say you see no, to few, Nubian-Americans in Anime, and cartoons. Yes? And? So? Stop complaining... and START D-O-I-N-G. Stop waiting around for others to take action. YOU take ACTION! You buy some art supplies, you practice drawing, you team with friends, you make your own anime. Pass them around for free at first to friends to build up a following. Then later sell them for low cost. After you get a sizeable market, up the cost a bit. Or look around for other young Nubian-Americans who know how to draw, or want to learn how to draw. Buy art supplies for them. Raise money for them to go to school, find scholorships for them. Or just plain pay for their Art School.
One of the most well known art schools is the "Kubert School of Art". I think they have 2 locations. One is in southern New Jersey, USA. Funded by Joe Kubert, one of the most famous artists on the planet. Mentioned in the same circles as Stan Lee.
Why should Asians make Nubian-American characters in their anime? There are extreemly few Nubian-Ameircans living in China, who speak Chinese. Living in Japan, who speak Japanese. Just like why should Disney make more Asian characters in their cartoons? Walt Disney grew up with no Asian people on his block. IF you are really serious, you will take ACTION, and MAKE YOUR OWN Nubian-American anime/cartoons. Or find and fund another Nubian-American who is intrested. Just like the Nubian-Americans who created "Mile High Comics" which almost killed off DC Comics, which almost killed off Superman.
(DC Comics later bought out Mile High Comics, distributing it. Hey, it was up to the Nubian-American creators if they wanted to take the money and sell out, or not and completly kill off DC Comics, then later make Marvel Comics sweat.)
WoW does indeed have Nubian looking people. Go into the town that is south of Goldshire. Where the NPCs are called the "Townwatch". Heck even in Goldshire, one of the innkeepers is Nubian looking. Also any player can create a Nubian looking character. You simply use the character creator to make the skin "dark" (yeah yeah, another word that's a missnomer. I can't think or find a better replacement for this Old English word.)
In Western culture, both Europeans, Euro-Amiercans, and Nubian-Americans, have been institutionalized into always choosing the European looking character. A quick example is the famous author Alex Haley. The guy spends years researching his true family name, after finding out that he and 98% of all Nubian-Americans have fake last names (last names were given by slave masters generations earlier). Alex Haley finds out Haley is not his real family name. WHAT does he do after finding out his real family name? He ignores it and keeps his fake family name! WHY? Because of what I said in the first sentance in this paragraph!
This is the main reason in modern mmorpgs it is rare to see a Nubian looking NPC. As far as I know, RS, EQ, AO, CSWG/SWG, allow players to make characters that are obviously Nubian looking. WoW does too, but not as much as the above mentioned games. AC comes close, you can make your character's skin pretty darn tan heheh.
As far as I know, AO was the first mmorpg to allow players to make characters that are very obviously Asian. EvE comes next closest. One can manipulate the face to look close to Asian.
Originally posted by xplororor A thread with the exact same subject of your thread was once posted in another forum. Here is the solution to the "problem" you see: 1. You mention anime. Guess what? Rent the "Animatrix" DVD, and watch the commentary about the history of anime. The originator of Asian anime saw there were zero Asian characters in Walt Disney cartoons. He was a BIG fan of Walt Disney. So what did he do? Did he wait around for Disney to make Asian characters? Did he petition Disney? Did he go around boycotting Disney? NO, no, and no. He instead MADE HIS OWN ASIAN cartoons. Now known as Anime. Ever hear of DC Comics? Marvel Comics? There was a group of Nubian-Americans..... (Black-American, and African-American are actually missnomers. European explorer named Leo Africanus said no one lived on this new contenent he FIRST discovered. And named the entire continent after himself! "Blacks" never called theirselves "Blacks" or "blacks" before the Europeans met them. Black is an old English word meaing evil, demoic, un-holy, etc... Just like "whites" never called theirselves "whites" originally. White is an old English word meaning good, just, holy, righteous. .... a group of Nubian-Americans got together. They saw there were no, to few, Nubian-Americans in comics. Did they petition DC and Marvel comics? Did they call for a boycott of DC and Marvel Comics? NO, no, and no. They instead MADE THEIR OWN NUBIAN-AMERICAN comics/cartoons. The name of their company if my memory serves me right, is "Mile High Comics". They grew sooo big that they rivialed DC Comics! Yes, Superman was sweating. If no one buys Superman, then he litterally ... dies. Get off your butt, and go visit Barnes and Noble, or your local bookstore. Go read the mini-bio on the creator of "Boondocks". The guy himself told how he saw no, to few Nubian-Americans in comics, cartoons, etc... Did he petition Charles Schultz? Or the other comic creators? Did he boycott comics? NO, no, and no. He instead, MADE HIS OWN Nubian-American comic! And he was college age when he first started. The point? You say you see no, to few, Nubian-Americans in Anime, and cartoons. Yes? And? So? Stop complaining... and START D-O-I-N-G. Stop waiting around for others to take action. YOU take ACTION! You buy some art supplies, you practice drawing, you team with friends, you make your own anime. Pass them around for free at first to friends to build up a following. Then later sell them for low cost. After you get a sizeable market, up the cost a bit. Or look around for other young Nubian-Americans who know how to draw, or want to learn how to draw. Buy art supplies for them. Raise money for them to go to school, find scholorships for them. Or just plain pay for their Art School. One of the most well known art schools is the "Kubert School of Art". I think they have 2 locations. One is in southern New Jersey, USA. Funded by Joe Kubert, one of the most famous artists on the planet. Mentioned in the same circles as Stan Lee. Why should Asians make Nubian-American characters in their anime? There are extreemly few Nubian-Ameircans living in China, who speak Chinese. Living in Japan, who speak Japanese. Just like why should Disney make more Asian characters in their cartoons? Walt Disney grew up with no Asian people on his block. IF you are really serious, you will take ACTION, and MAKE YOUR OWN Nubian-American anime/cartoons. Or find and fund another Nubian-American who is intrested. Just like the Nubian-Americans who created "Mile High Comics" which almost killed off DC Comics, which almost killed off Superman. (DC Comics later bought out Mile High Comics, distributing it. Hey, it was up to the Nubian-American creators if they wanted to take the money and sell out, or not and completly kill off DC Comics, then later make Marvel Comics sweat.)
And sadly to this day... Anime and Manga comes out ... and we STILL dont see many Asian characters in it. All of em are European if not most...
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
I completely disagree with that logic. If I played an asian-oriented game about an ancient samurai that saves the world (a la Jade Empire), it would completely devastate my imersion if my character was hispanic.
I think how they're working races into most games nowadays (not just MMO's) is fine the way it is going.
Speaking of... anybody play the Prey demo yet? Being a Cherokee, I loved it. :P
Actually, it would not "completely devastate ... immersion". Between 20% to 50% of Asians are Spanish. It brings up how sensless and dumb labels are! Go to Asia, Philipines, Indonesia, and those Asians speak Spanish, Have Spanish NAMES.. Your "immersion" suffers because your education is limited. Not originally your fault, because the western school system is flawed. But if your over 18, or when you become over age 18, then you can choose to travel the world, and see it for yourself. Asians with Spanish names, speaking Spanish.
And sadly to this day... Anime and Manga comes out ... and we STILL dont see many Asian characters in it. All of em are European if not most...
There is an intresting reason for that. Glad you noticed. You also need to check out the DVD The Animatrix and the comments/interview section. They touch on this. The father of all Asian anime was a HUGE fan of Disney. Especially Micky Mouse. When he started making cartoons for Asia, he simply copied Disney , at first. And giving Asian names to his characters. Since Disney was western, and he copied Disney, all his characters had "round eyes". The Asian animators who came after him, copied him.
So it can be said that in the early days of Asian cartoons/anime/hentai/manga it was not a case of "self hate", it was simpy a case of detailed copying of Disney. BUT at present time, the question is... do present and current Asian animators conciously KNOW they are not drawing characters that look Asian? In the Animatrix DVD they show examples of Asian art before there was anime. All the characters had obviously Asian features, and eyes. So Asian artists up until the early 1900's were drawing their cartoons and art to look exactly like they looked.
I guess in present time, one would have to walk up to an Asian artist, and dare them to draw a character that looked exactly like them. And see if they are able to do it. If they can't, or refuse, then they suffer from institutionalized self hate, and mind washing - simular to my example about Alex Haley.
Originally posted by xplororor Originally posted by methane47 And sadly to this day... Anime and Manga comes out ... and we STILL dont see many Asian characters in it. All of em are European if not most...
There is an intresting reason for that. Glad you noticed. You also need to check out the DVD The Animatrix and the comments/interview section. They touch on this. The father of all Asian anime was a HUGE fan of Disney. Especially Micky Mouse. When he started making cartoons for Asia, he simply copied Disney , at first. And giving Asian names to his characters. Since Disney was western, and he copied Disney, all his characters had "round eyes". The Asian animators who came after him, copied him.
So it can be said that in the early days of Asian cartoons/anime/hentai/manga it was not a case of "self hate", it was simpy a case of detailed copying of Disney. BUT at present time, the question is... do present and current Asian animators conciously KNOW they are not drawing characters that look Asian? In the Animatrix DVD they show examples of Asian art before there was anime. All the characters had obviously Asian features, and eyes. So Asian artists up until the early 1900's were drawing their cartoons and art to look exactly like they looked.
I guess in present time, one would have to walk up to an Asian artist, and dare them to draw a character that looked exactly like them. And see if they are able to do it. If they can't, or refuse, then they suffer from institutionalized self hate, and mind washing - simular to my example about Alex Haley.
I think i remember you saying the exact thing in a very similar thread some time ago.. Mabye it wasn't you... but then after that... two people started battling it out over how credible one source (The Animatrix) can be....
Anyways... That is besides the point... The point here is that there is a gross under-representation of ethnicity in MMOs... Asian and Non-Asian... And there has to be a change... Just because we shouldn't look to skin color... doesn't mean we should not want to associate with the character... Imagine if Captin america was Chineez... Do you think He would be the superhero he is today? What if he was Native Indian... wouldn't that be a better reprentation of the word "America" Anyways... I know you think that it's not important... but sometimes people just want to be able to relate.. Thats why games that have a really good custimization scheme are highly praised... and those that dont are said to offer no Uniqueness... Just like Tomb Raider offered a heroic look at women in games... Which changed the thinking of many girls that games were just for guys... Sometimes otherpeople just want to associate with something other than a 6'3 white buff male with blonde hair and blue eyes... Not as a racist angle... just as one that We tend to flock to things that look like us..
But at the same time in the Western World I can very much understand that whites are majority and they come first.... But it would just be good to have every once in a while...
I remember when I was first reading about the sequel to Warcraft 2... It was supposed to be an adventure game called WarCraft Adventures... i think... Anyways it was going to be based on the Orc from now WarCraft3 and tell the story about how he was raized by humans and then he left home to reunite the might Orc clans... And i couldn't help but feel like that would have been such an awesome game.. taking normal Associations of the Human race throughing it out the window... and forcing us to see the game from a Totally new perspective... Well... i guess that didn't work out to well... It got canned... And now we'll probably never see it....
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
Old Topic, but I just wanted to add my part. I play the game ( WoW ) It would be nice to have a fantasy Character ( just what the game is anyway ) that dosnt look like someone else lol. But me. I guess that's asking to much of Blizzard. Imagine a Nite Elf that was Brown lol OMG! Let's not go overboard ! Heaven's Forbid we have Brown Elves on a Server! What about a Asian looking Rogue? Afros on a Priest? lol I mean think of how fun looking that would all be. It's a game, Make it fun, That was the whole intent right?. If alot of people feel left out, dont complain about it, because if u are complaining you probably just don't understand them anyway nor the whole point in this Topic.
Originally posted by zawadi Old Topic, but I just wanted to add my part. I play the game ( WoW ) It would be nice to have a fantasy Character ( just what the game is anyway ) that dosnt look like someone else lol. But me. I guess that's asking to much of Blizzard. Imagine a Nite Elf that was Brown lol OMG! Let's not go overboard ! Heaven's Forbid we have Brown Elves on a Server! What about a Asian looking Rogue? Afros on a Priest? lol I mean think of how fun looking that would all be. It's a game, Make it fun, That was the whole intent right?. If alot of people feel left out, dont complain about it, because if u are complaining you probably just don't understand them anyway nor the whole point in this Topic.
Sure it could be done. But YOU would have to do it. Or you would have to invest your own money in someone to do it. Current RPGs, and MMORPGs, are based on D&D, which is based on Tolkien, which is based on old European mythology, and superstitions. This is why you do not see Elves with Afros LOL. Because in ancient Europe, it was tooo rare to see someone with an afro. When they came up with their superstitions, the charcters would have more European features, and less likely afros.
The lore of Elves is even more proof of "fantasy beliefs" being based on current superstions. Western superstions come from Western, and Northern Europe. Which comes from Southern, and Eastern Europe.
Current beliefs are that all Elves are Tall, Wise, look nice, are sleek, and have ancient wisdom. Did you know there was a time when all Elves were tiny, short, silly, whimsical? Some residuale hints of this are:
1. Santa's Elves
2. The Keebler Elves
The superstition of Santa comes from southern European supertitions. It survived to this day. It was the superstitious Northern, Western Europeans, then later in America, that changed their superstions to make Elves be tall, wise, etc... But the original lore behind Elves still survives with Santa's Elves, and the Keebler Elves. Dwarves and Elves used to mean the exact same thing. Go back further, and Pixies, Elves, Dwarves, Sprites, all ment the exact same thing. Tiny, small, silly, mischevious creatures. Sometimes with bad intentions.
Superstions constantly change. So yeah, if you want to change the European superstions to a new view that Elves have afros, go for it! IF you can convice a large number of the public, then you will have effectivly changed it just like how Elves are no longer seen as being short, and tiny. But to do this, you will have to make your own game, and make it a good game that it catches on.
i think games are the one thing nowadays that are really racially diverse. i mean u wont find anyplace else which is as racially diverse as online games. goodness, ive met ppl from all over the freakin world by playing games! thats not gonna happen in ur city or on many forums u go to. anyways, y is it that whenever we're talkin 'racially diverse' the main issue thats discussed is black vs white? yeah u (entropy) did mention other races at the end but ur rant mostly summed up the black/white racial issue. as for color skin in games, most of them have a range of skin pigments.
(p.s. im not some hardcore gamer who has experience with all the mmorpgs out there, but ive played my share and i do kno wut im talkin about )
Comments
Many people who have played EQ1 felt that Erudites were black.
I played multiple characters in WoW and was able to create a female human black character.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
I haven't bothered to read all the posts so if it's been covered ignore me.
Erudites in EQ didn't have large foreheads so you could see them as intellectuals or to make fun of black people. The reason they had large heads is the same reason they're black and have evolved to the strange figures they are in EQ2. The lore on Erudites states that they deal with so much magic on their home isle that it has a mutating effect.
I agree with the OP to a certain extent but i think there just needs to be more diversity overall. Honestly though its the last thing in this world i'll devote my time to worrying about. I'm a white guy that played a black guy in eq1, a japanese guy in EVE and a chinese guy in SRO.
Make a difference!
in my history book this year we were learning about american westward expansion and about the battles with native american tribes throughout the northern states and everytime native americans lost a battle they called it a vicotry and every time they won a battle it was called a massacre (Battle of Little Big Horn) only a about a hundred or so american troops died but somehow its called a massacre when it was a battle (unlike how american troops masacred 100s of native american women and children at sand creek)
but anyway to be on topic i dont think this subject has come up in many of the game developing companies.... i think they only think about it like this
"well if we dont have any black people we might get sued" so they let people make black characters and drop the subject right there =/
...just my thoughts
A thread with the exact same subject of your thread was once posted in another forum. Here is the solution to the "problem" you see:
1. You mention anime. Guess what? Rent the "Animatrix" DVD, and watch the commentary about the history of anime. The originator of Asian anime saw there were zero Asian characters in Walt Disney cartoons. He was a BIG fan of Walt Disney. So what did he do? Did he wait around for Disney to make Asian characters? Did he petition Disney? Did he go around boycotting Disney? NO, no, and no. He instead MADE HIS OWN ASIAN cartoons. Now known as Anime.
Ever hear of DC Comics? Marvel Comics? There was a group of Nubian-Americans.....
(Black-American, and African-American are actually missnomers. European explorer named Leo Africanus said no one lived on this new contenent he FIRST discovered. And named the entire continent after himself! "Blacks" never called theirselves "Blacks" or "blacks" before the Europeans met them. Black is an old English word meaing evil, demoic, un-holy, etc... Just like "whites" never called theirselves "whites" originally. White is an old English word meaning good, just, holy, righteous.
.... a group of Nubian-Americans got together. They saw there were no, to few, Nubian-Americans in comics. Did they petition DC and Marvel comics? Did they call for a boycott of DC and Marvel Comics? NO, no, and no. They instead MADE THEIR OWN NUBIAN-AMERICAN comics/cartoons. The name of their company if my memory serves me right, is "Mile High Comics". They grew sooo big that they rivialed DC Comics! Yes, Superman was sweating. If no one buys Superman, then he litterally ... dies.
Get off your butt, and go visit Barnes and Noble, or your local bookstore. Go read the mini-bio on the creator of "Boondocks". The guy himself told how he saw no, to few Nubian-Americans in comics, cartoons, etc... Did he petition Charles Schultz? Or the other comic creators? Did he boycott comics? NO, no, and no. He instead, MADE HIS OWN Nubian-American comic! And he was college age when he first started.
The point? You say you see no, to few, Nubian-Americans in Anime, and cartoons. Yes? And? So? Stop complaining... and START D-O-I-N-G. Stop waiting around for others to take action. YOU take ACTION! You buy some art supplies, you practice drawing, you team with friends, you make your own anime. Pass them around for free at first to friends to build up a following. Then later sell them for low cost. After you get a sizeable market, up the cost a bit. Or look around for other young Nubian-Americans who know how to draw, or want to learn how to draw. Buy art supplies for them. Raise money for them to go to school, find scholorships for them. Or just plain pay for their Art School.
One of the most well known art schools is the "Kubert School of Art". I think they have 2 locations. One is in southern New Jersey, USA. Funded by Joe Kubert, one of the most famous artists on the planet. Mentioned in the same circles as Stan Lee.
Why should Asians make Nubian-American characters in their anime? There are extreemly few Nubian-Ameircans living in China, who speak Chinese. Living in Japan, who speak Japanese. Just like why should Disney make more Asian characters in their cartoons? Walt Disney grew up with no Asian people on his block. IF you are really serious, you will take ACTION, and MAKE YOUR OWN Nubian-American anime/cartoons. Or find and fund another Nubian-American who is intrested. Just like the Nubian-Americans who created "Mile High Comics" which almost killed off DC Comics, which almost killed off Superman.
(DC Comics later bought out Mile High Comics, distributing it. Hey, it was up to the Nubian-American creators if they wanted to take the money and sell out, or not and completly kill off DC Comics, then later make Marvel Comics sweat.)
BTW, you silly guy...
WoW does indeed have Nubian looking people. Go into the town that is south of Goldshire. Where the NPCs are called the "Townwatch". Heck even in Goldshire, one of the innkeepers is Nubian looking. Also any player can create a Nubian looking character. You simply use the character creator to make the skin "dark" (yeah yeah, another word that's a missnomer. I can't think or find a better replacement for this Old English word.)
In Western culture, both Europeans, Euro-Amiercans, and Nubian-Americans, have been institutionalized into always choosing the European looking character. A quick example is the famous author Alex Haley. The guy spends years researching his true family name, after finding out that he and 98% of all Nubian-Americans have fake last names (last names were given by slave masters generations earlier). Alex Haley finds out Haley is not his real family name. WHAT does he do after finding out his real family name? He ignores it and keeps his fake family name! WHY? Because of what I said in the first sentance in this paragraph!
This is the main reason in modern mmorpgs it is rare to see a Nubian looking NPC. As far as I know, RS, EQ, AO, CSWG/SWG, allow players to make characters that are obviously Nubian looking. WoW does too, but not as much as the above mentioned games. AC comes close, you can make your character's skin pretty darn tan heheh.
As far as I know, AO was the first mmorpg to allow players to make characters that are very obviously Asian. EvE comes next closest. One can manipulate the face to look close to Asian.
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
I think how they're working races into most games nowadays (not just MMO's) is fine the way it is going.
Speaking of... anybody play the Prey demo yet? Being a Cherokee, I loved it. :P
Actually, it would not "completely devastate ... immersion". Between 20% to 50% of Asians are Spanish. It brings up how sensless and dumb labels are! Go to Asia, Philipines, Indonesia, and those Asians speak Spanish, Have Spanish NAMES.. Your "immersion" suffers because your education is limited. Not originally your fault, because the western school system is flawed. But if your over 18, or when you become over age 18, then you can choose to travel the world, and see it for yourself. Asians with Spanish names, speaking Spanish.
There is an intresting reason for that. Glad you noticed. You also need to check out the DVD The Animatrix and the comments/interview section. They touch on this. The father of all Asian anime was a HUGE fan of Disney. Especially Micky Mouse. When he started making cartoons for Asia, he simply copied Disney , at first. And giving Asian names to his characters. Since Disney was western, and he copied Disney, all his characters had "round eyes". The Asian animators who came after him, copied him.
So it can be said that in the early days of Asian cartoons/anime/hentai/manga it was not a case of "self hate", it was simpy a case of detailed copying of Disney. BUT at present time, the question is... do present and current Asian animators conciously KNOW they are not drawing characters that look Asian? In the Animatrix DVD they show examples of Asian art before there was anime. All the characters had obviously Asian features, and eyes. So Asian artists up until the early 1900's were drawing their cartoons and art to look exactly like they looked.
I guess in present time, one would have to walk up to an Asian artist, and dare them to draw a character that looked exactly like them. And see if they are able to do it. If they can't, or refuse, then they suffer from institutionalized self hate, and mind washing - simular to my example about Alex Haley.
There is an intresting reason for that. Glad you noticed. You also need to check out the DVD The Animatrix and the comments/interview section. They touch on this. The father of all Asian anime was a HUGE fan of Disney. Especially Micky Mouse. When he started making cartoons for Asia, he simply copied Disney , at first. And giving Asian names to his characters. Since Disney was western, and he copied Disney, all his characters had "round eyes". The Asian animators who came after him, copied him.
So it can be said that in the early days of Asian cartoons/anime/hentai/manga it was not a case of "self hate", it was simpy a case of detailed copying of Disney. BUT at present time, the question is... do present and current Asian animators conciously KNOW they are not drawing characters that look Asian? In the Animatrix DVD they show examples of Asian art before there was anime. All the characters had obviously Asian features, and eyes. So Asian artists up until the early 1900's were drawing their cartoons and art to look exactly like they looked.
I guess in present time, one would have to walk up to an Asian artist, and dare them to draw a character that looked exactly like them. And see if they are able to do it. If they can't, or refuse, then they suffer from institutionalized self hate, and mind washing - simular to my example about Alex Haley.
I think i remember you saying the exact thing in a very similar thread some time ago.. Mabye it wasn't you... but then after that... two people started battling it out over how credible one source (The Animatrix) can be....
Anyways... That is besides the point... The point here is that there is a gross under-representation of ethnicity in MMOs... Asian and Non-Asian... And there has to be a change... Just because we shouldn't look to skin color... doesn't mean we should not want to associate with the character... Imagine if Captin america was Chineez... Do you think He would be the superhero he is today? What if he was Native Indian... wouldn't that be a better reprentation of the word "America" Anyways... I know you think that it's not important... but sometimes people just want to be able to relate.. Thats why games that have a really good custimization scheme are highly praised... and those that dont are said to offer no Uniqueness... Just like Tomb Raider offered a heroic look at women in games... Which changed the thinking of many girls that games were just for guys... Sometimes otherpeople just want to associate with something other than a 6'3 white buff male with blonde hair and blue eyes... Not as a racist angle... just as one that We tend to flock to things that look like us..
But at the same time in the Western World I can very much understand that whites are majority and they come first.... But it would just be good to have every once in a while...
I remember when I was first reading about the sequel to Warcraft 2... It was supposed to be an adventure game called WarCraft Adventures... i think... Anyways it was going to be based on the Orc from now WarCraft3 and tell the story about how he was raized by humans and then he left home to reunite the might Orc clans... And i couldn't help but feel like that would have been such an awesome game.. taking normal Associations of the Human race throughing it out the window... and forcing us to see the game from a Totally new perspective... Well... i guess that didn't work out to well... It got canned... And now we'll probably never see it....
EDIT: Found a great Wiki for it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warcraft_Adventures
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
The lore of Elves is even more proof of "fantasy beliefs" being based on current superstions. Western superstions come from Western, and Northern Europe. Which comes from Southern, and Eastern Europe.
Current beliefs are that all Elves are Tall, Wise, look nice, are sleek, and have ancient wisdom. Did you know there was a time when all Elves were tiny, short, silly, whimsical? Some residuale hints of this are:
1. Santa's Elves
2. The Keebler Elves
The superstition of Santa comes from southern European supertitions. It survived to this day. It was the superstitious Northern, Western Europeans, then later in America, that changed their superstions to make Elves be tall, wise, etc... But the original lore behind Elves still survives with Santa's Elves, and the Keebler Elves.
Dwarves and Elves used to mean the exact same thing. Go back further, and Pixies, Elves, Dwarves, Sprites, all ment the exact same thing. Tiny, small, silly, mischevious creatures. Sometimes with bad intentions.
Superstions constantly change. So yeah, if you want to change the European superstions to a new view that Elves have afros, go for it!
Yeah, you have a thought in your head it sounds good in your head then you write it down and you realize how pathetic it was, happens all the time.
Professor Hubert Farnsworth - That question is less stupid but, you asked it in a profoundly stupid way.
i think games are the one thing nowadays that are really racially diverse. i mean u wont find anyplace else which is as racially diverse as online games. goodness, ive met ppl from all over the freakin world by playing games! thats not gonna happen in ur city or on many forums u go to. anyways, y is it that whenever we're talkin 'racially diverse' the main issue thats discussed is black vs white? yeah u (entropy) did mention other races at the end but ur rant mostly summed up the black/white racial issue. as for color skin in games, most of them have a range of skin pigments.
(p.s. im not some hardcore gamer who has experience with all the mmorpgs out there, but ive played my share and i do kno wut im talkin about
)