Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
EVE compared to Ryzom
frkhot97
Member Posts: 393
Hello
My buddy has been promoting EVE alot to me so I tried it today. I'm playing Ryzom and like it very much, and he did too until he quit 2 weeks ago in favour of EVE. His complain is that Ryzom is a grind and that it is far too easy. As we all know, in these sandbox type games you get back what you put in; if you only grind - the game becomes a grind, etc. EVE seems to have some nice things from my point of view, the risk of being involved in PvP (not a big PvP'er myself, but I like the risk), and the really massive universe. There are things I don't like with what I've seen as well, but Ryzom has its downsides as well.
But I am curious to know two things, if you played Ryzom (and gotten a bit into harvesting/crafting which is where Ryzom really get complex) - how do they compare? Does EVE have a more complex gamesystem than Ryzom? When I look at the GUI, I feel very newbiesh and can't really see the trees for the forest.
And, what about leveling up? WoW is very level dependant, your level decides what to wear and what area to play in. Does the player's experience of the game change as you gain levels (or what the EVE term is)?
Comments
Unfortunately I haven't played Ryzom so I can't compare the two, but I will tell you this: EVE is the most grind-orientated MMORPG I have ever played. Also, I didn't feel like the actual gameplay changed when leveling up, you just got bigger numbers everywhere. In my opinion the best space sim mmorpg to date is still JumpGate, however it was developed and maintained with a budget which restricted the content way too much, and nowadays it's just old...
EVE is a complete JumpGate ripoff btw, the biggest difference is that they made a completely different combat system, JumpGate was actually fun to fight in while EVE is not.
Its apples to oranges, honestly.
If you want to try it, try it. Eve is [comparatively] the complete opposite of the grind games. And, the very honest truth is, you'll either like Eve or you won't. Of course, the same is said about every other game. I would recommend trying Eve though. If you don't like it then you can always go back to the game you already enjoy.
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
I contest that it is a grind based game. You can be a casual player and still be a valuable member of a group.
Frkhot, I'm afraid I haven't played Ryzom either (though I have been tempted at times, it looks like a nice game). Though I can tell you about the "leveling" system.
EVE's system is not based on levels, it's based on skills. But EVE's skill system is totally independent of the time you put in. It's based solely on time (and your attributes, each skill has a primary and secondary attribute focus). You "level up" even when you're not playing. The good news is that you don't have to play endlessly to go up in level. The bad news is you have to wait, sometimes for a significant amount of time, for some things.
This however does not mean that you can never catch up with veterans. The maximum level you can get on any skill is lvl 5. It's only on average 5% more than lvl 4 and takes at least 5x the time to train. The only advantage being in the game for a long time gives you is the ability to expand to different ships and other pursuits. Specialization is key for new players.
IMHO, your experience in EVE is largely independent from what skills you have. It's largely what you do and the group you're in. I was mining in a low security system my 2nd day with the corp I joined. I was in a free for all 0.0 system my first month because I wanted to check it out. I made friends and got to know new people, worked with them. I joined a 0.0 based corp, and that's where I live now.
So your experience in EVE is largely based on what YOU do. The initiatives YOU take. That I believe is one of the strengths of EVE. I was 2 days old and I was able to help out my new corp, and a month old and I was working with veterans of one of EVE's "lawless" regions.
I hope that helps (and that you get an actual comparison by knowledgeable individuals). If you do join EVE, feel free to send me a mail or convo.
God Bless
Creed Richards
why do people even bother with trolling on forumns he was asking about EVE not whatever crappy game you wanna plug in.
Eve does have mining, i have played ryzom and EVE and i liked ryzomscrafting more, as you could collect different quality mats, i play EVE atm, and i m not really that involved with the crafting.
Despite the apples and oranges...
Thanks for all your posts, this is what I understood so far:
Neither EVE or Ryzom has an "end game" (which is good IMO), the game is pretty much the same first week as it is after a year, it's only based on what the player wants. No grind for levels in EVE, but for equipment (ships and modules)?
What about the game's complexity? I see the graphs and maps and stuff, so far very abstract. Ryzom's crafting gui looks quite simple too me, but making the best items takes lots of effort and involves secret recipes. I don't know really how to form the question, but - despite the GUI, is the game system complicated in an interesting and entertaining way? And how/what aspects of it? Aaargh, sorry it's a stupid question.
(1997) UO --> EQ -> Runescape -> DAoC -> WoW -> EVE + WAR (2008)
The UI is very very hard to learn at first. They provide you with a lot of tools from the start. If you skip the tutorial you will be forever lost in the game. To put it the best way I can, EVE doesn't have a learning curve, it has a learning Cliff.
There is an infinate amount of ways to become successful in the game, all you need is a little creativity and proper knowledge of the games tools.
I've been with the game for a while now and I am learning something every day. The crafting system is one of the best in my oppinion. Sure, for some of the super rare blueprints you need to do a little extra work, but it's worth it.
To say the least, I always have something to look forward too when I log on. However, this game isn't for everyone (Especially stupid flamers who have never played the game like the one I just replied to above). Keep an open mind
We don't hate the people that don't like EVE. Everyone has a specific taste 
(1997) UO --> EQ -> Runescape -> DAoC -> WoW -> EVE + WAR (2008)
You can go pirate and ransom people and/or make them explode and steal the loot. You can go mercenary and wage war for ISK. You can do trading, researching, building, scamming, stealing, "banking", transports, play on the stock market or you can get an I-Win-Button by getting a blueprint original from your research agent and never have to worry about ISK again. I'm still waiting for that bpo you crappy agent!
Since most of your questions have been answered already I will just give my input about what I think about EVE.
Currently a player of World of Warcraft, I decided to give EVE a second chance after I had already tried it once, skipped the tutorial and said wow this game sucks. I was bored and decided to give it another chance trying the tutorial to the very end.
I will have to say it is probably one of the only best MMOs out right now. The game offers a lot of depth and choice of action as to what you want to do. Now there's no killing dragons or anything like that but I think what the game has to offer is probably a lot better than killing dragons and collecting your phat lewts. I found myself wanting to play more and more each day I logged on WoW. I just kept saying to myself man I wish this raid would hurry up and end so I can play more EVE. Of course you will have to grind some bit in all MMOs, so.
It probably doesn't sound like much but if I were you, I would download the trial and give it a spin, and if you like it enough, purchase a subscription and set yourself to goal. You can basically do anything you want. IE I was thinking of ditching the freelancer combat type person and creating a character for the sole purpose of mining/crafting and running a business for players. Like others have said just keep an open mind and don't try to incorporate this game in similarities to other dragon or undead raid boss games. Again, apples and oranges.
Hope you enjoy it.
Well Your questions seem to have been answered already so ill just say a few things about eve.
Do the tutorial its long hard and boring but because of eve's complexity its best you at least try it. Then join a corp i advise a mining one because the learning curve tends to be easier in this are.
If you want ot go into crafting well first of all eve has the most comprehensive crafting system and its about to get even more complex with the next FREE expansion. Currently crafting a basic blueprint involves getting the various minerals and useing then with the blueprint to make a product.
With a tech 2 item things get more complex now its true it needs minerals like the last example but it also needs tech 2 components which are made by Player owned stations [POS]. they make these components by mining moons for basic eliments which are then mixed to make basic reactions then basic reactions are mixed to make complex reactions then complex reactions are mixed to make tech 2 parts.
This is just the basics in production i have not mentioned things like titan construction which can take months to make 1 unit.
In future we are getting new resources and products to make like comet ining nebulas to mine system wide asteroid fields etc. also we are gettin certain black market drugs to make that act like combat drugs.
Point is the market is HUGE.
Another point is the games developers are always adding new content and are very comunacative with us for example recently we have been hearing about there future plans such as...
Landing on planets
collonisation/building collonys.
capital ship class industial ships [crafter class]*
a station foyer/bar for meeting fellow pilots.*
RTS land combat.*
Now the stuff with stars by them havent even progressed beyond ideas bourd so it will be a while but its confirmed the devs want them in one day.
I played the Ryzom trial, so I have a very basic understanding of the game. At the time it seemed a lot like old SWG (which I played a lot of) so I think I know what you're looking for.
EVE is a combat-centric game. The crafting side is no where near as complex as Ryzom / SWG. "Harvesting" is mining asteroids for ore, which is turned into minerals for building. The minerals are the same no matter who mines them, the only diffference is how fast you do it and how much waste you have turning ore into minerals.
While the act of "crafting" isn't complex really, the market system is pretty realistic, so the point of complexity is actually selling your products.
As far as what systems are complex, they pretty much all have to do with player interaction. The PvE isn't particularily varied or challenging and the solo crafter often finds they have a tough life (unless they get really lucky and get access to a rare production schematic - but that's lottery based). By contrast, the player in a large alliance can get involved in diplomacy and fleet fights, the solo trader is attempting to beat out the other traders on a lucrative trade business (while avoiding being blown up by pirates after the loot), the manufacturer tries to minimize costs / maximize profit compared to other builders, etc.
It's all player driven. If you don't like interaction then EVE will be a dull grind. If you like getting involved with others, and most importantly you like (and are capable of) setting larger goals for yourself without being spoonfed quests, then you'll probably like EVE.
I have no problem if somebody made bad experiences in EVE and tells us in a constructive manner, but this outright lying and spreading of false information makes me wonder if you have ever logged into the game for longer than 5 seconds.
@ topic: Welcome to EVE
Maybe I overlooked but nobody really explained how production works in EVE. First off, there are currently 2 Tech levels in EVE. Generally Tech 1 is easier to produce, also character skill wise.
Lets say you want to build a cruiser. First off you need about 2 skills ("Industry" and "Production Efficiency" are important). Then you need to aquire a blue print of said ship, by either buying a blue print original or a copy of an original. Originals give you unlimited number of "production runs", copies are limited to a certain number. And yes original blueprints can be researched to be more efficient (requiring less minerals) when you use them to build something. Naturally if you buy a copy do so from a well researched original, so you have less waste minerals. The difference si the price. An unresearched cruiser blue print original off the npc market costs about 60 to 80 Million ISKs, while a copy costs a few hundred thousand.
Now all you need are the actual minerals. There are close to a dozen in EVE (eg. Tritanium, Isogen, etc.) Minerals you get by either mining ores (and then refining the minerals out of them), by refining (npc) loot, or by purchase (or stealing) from other players. There are several Mining Spreadsheets available that show you quite exactly how much minerals you get in a certain amount of time.
If you have everything you need to build the cruiser bring that material to a space station which has manufacturing capabilities (a lot of NPC stations have, but not all), rent a "production slot", choose the blueprint you want to build off, and basically you are set. After a certain amount of time depnding on skills again, the item is done and you can claim it in the station it was produced. Every T1 item is made that way.
The difference to T2 items is that you need a lot more so called components, and a T1 version of the item. So eg, if you want to build a "Deimos" Heavy Assualt Ship, you need it's Tech 1 "base", in this case the "Thorax" cruiser. Components you get from POS (Player owned station) installations (first some raw materials, which must be further processed. And last but not least you need a special mineral (morphite). Assitionally the complete T2 production chain is player controlled, save the generation of the Blueprints, which are randomly distributed to characters by so called research agents. This random distribution is one of the few points I eally hate about EVE.
All in all the "crafting" in EVE is quite interesting and multi layered. It comes in especialyl hndy, when you are in a far and remote system and you need eg ammunition and some general modules, which are not available in that part of space. Also you can make a nice income with manufacture in EVE, no matter if T1 or T2, you just need to know 3 things: what, when, where.
------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
Just because you don't have one umbrella-function handling all of your skill increases at the same time doesn't mean that you don't level up. You most definately have leveling in the the eve skill system, and if you look at what he was getting at in the original post when he was talking about leveling up he was refering to the progression in general and how that affects what you can use. Try seeing the whole context will ya.
In Ryzom you gather resrouces, you looking for rare ones, you go though a complex combine process doing all kinds of stuff to figure out quality of the item.
In EVE all resources are rapidly avalable, it your job to put it all together though. It also depends on where you want to start,
Lets say I just want to craft a microwarp drive (MWD). If I want to make 1, I can easly enough mine resources myself or buy them from a player. Rent a factory in the station, make em and though them out on the market, very easy and simple (and that is how lots of starter traders in EVE make money).
Now one level deeper, lets say you want to make 500 MWDs because that is a fairly common item and people buy it a lot. You can try to mine resources yourself, it will take you a long time though. Another option is to buy it from players, but there is no good price in your region, so you go check prices in other areas until you find what is the most optimal combination for you. Another words you start building a logistics network. Also lets say you dont want to fly around for 3 hours to get all materials well now you can team up with someone who can help you and split the profits.
First 2 steps very simple, now lets take a look where system gets really deep.
To produce a tech 2 MWD which is a much better version of regular one. Well now you need resources that can be obtained by obtaining alloys that are obtained though reactions that are perfomed in 0.0 space at player owned stations, those reactions need components that are mined from the moons in 0.0 space. (Usually no one goes from creating tech 2 items from the very basic, everyone does one or two steps of the way).
Then you also have capital ships and tech 2 ships require hundered of subcompomenets that are also manufactured at player owned stations.
There is a lot to be said about player stations too, but that deals with the whole other part of the economy. This is the very very basics of crafting system, not mentioning BPOs, BPCs, RFs, Outposts, Freights and 0.0 space (which is entirely player controled area).
The best comparison I can give you, Ryzom would be something like a nomad tribe where you look for better resources in the wild and then perfect your methods of putting it all together. (which is not bad it is just that type of system) EVE is a moden manufacture process where every factory specilizes in making their own thing and supply that product to the market, there are contracts between factories, ton and tons of logistics issues not counting in game politics which goes hand in hand with economy and crafting system.
The systems are very differnt but to be honest I have yet to see a game where economics is integerated into the game on such a level.
GUI is very complex, there are a ton of menus that invoke sub menues and more submenues. I think that it is the biggest problem EVE has when attracting new players. If you skip tutorial 90% chance you will not like EVE.
Well leveling is technically exists but it is a lot different. You choose a skill to train up, and that one skill is responsible for a very small special area that it covers. As you advance skills get more and more specilized, but there is no such thing in EVE when difference in 1 skill level will make you either gimp or elite. If WoW from level 59 to levle 60 it is a huge vitory for you. EVE gives you lots of small victories, some bigger some smaller but there is no huge ones.
Hope this helps.
Just because you don't have one umbrella-function handling all of your skill increases at the same time doesn't mean that you don't level up. You most definately have leveling in the the eve skill system, and if you look at what he was getting at in the original post when he was talking about leveling up he was refering to the progression in general and how that affects what you can use. Try seeing the whole context will ya.
You were still trolling. Honestly, any way you attempt to justify your "speach" is simply going to be shot down. There's always one!
Whole context? Its a forum reply, not a peice of art!
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
If you want to 'grind' there is always mining.
If you want to fight, even a person less than a month into the game can get in a 0.0 frigate gang and have fun killing a 3 year old players faction battleship.
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
<imgsrc="http://files1.guildlaunch.net/guild/library/86975/Black_Fire.jpg">;
<ahref="http://profile.xfire.com/aetiuslonginus"><img src="http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sh/type/2/aetiuslonginus.png"; width="450" height="34" /></a>
Is it me or is the guy quoting the same as the one being quoted here
I think he posted with the wrong account.
Damn I remember following Ryzom a long time ago and i completely forgot about it, guess i'll have to find some kind of trial and try it out.
Can't really add anything more than what's being said, EVE is what you make it.
-iCeh
Just because you don't have one umbrella-function handling all of your skill increases at the same time doesn't mean that you don't level up. You most definately have leveling in the the eve skill system, and if you look at what he was getting at in the original post when he was talking about leveling up he was refering to the progression in general and how that affects what you can use. Try seeing the whole context will ya.
Bar,
It is generally accepted in the RPG Universe that you need 1 key ingredient to actually level up, that is an experience point system. You can not measure ones progress in EVE by levels.
Also, as Soba said, you were trolling in the first place. Big Numbers? Are you reffering to your Attributes? If you plan properly (yes it requires a brain to do this) you can get all sorts of neat toys and new options for you to do. However, if you refer to your big numbers as damage done to a ship, or your attributes, you must have never even played the game through the tutorial.
Anyway, I'm done with my rant.
(1997) UO --> EQ -> Runescape -> DAoC -> WoW -> EVE + WAR (2008)
Just because you don't have one umbrella-function handling all of your skill increases at the same time doesn't mean that you don't level up. You most definately have leveling in the the eve skill system, and if you look at what he was getting at in the original post when he was talking about leveling up he was refering to the progression in general and how that affects what you can use. Try seeing the whole context will ya.
Is it me or is the guy quoting the same as the one being quoted here
I think he posted with the wrong account.
If my mind isn't playing a trick on me you're wondering if I am bar.
Nope
I try to speak in paragraphs when possible. Not a jumble of random unorganized crap 
Besides, having a 2nd account on this site is a waste of time in my oppinion >.>
(1997) UO --> EQ -> Runescape -> DAoC -> WoW -> EVE + WAR (2008)
Ok here's my two cents, for what it is worth, since I am playing Eve and Ryzom currently.
I have been playing Eve for 3 years now. I'm a total addict. Like everyone says. Eve is what you make it. Sometimes I get so involved just chatting with other players, I don't do anything. One thing no one seems to mention, is the chat in Eve. You can compleatly cover your screen with chat windows if you want to and carry on as many conversations as your brain will allow.
All pvp'rs use Teamspeak or Ventrillo. It is simply a neccesity when you have hundreds of players fighting each other at the same time. You must listen to your commanders or you will get pwnd. That is why ccp will soon be integrating voice chat into the game.
I just started playing Ryzom about a week ago, I'm still on the new newb island, which I find very nice. Eve is beautifull in it's own right. However those of us who have been in space for a long time, miss seeing trees and the like. Ryzom offers beautiful landscapes that feel very real. It's a great escape for me. There are actual herds of beasts and the weather seems to always be changing. I've only done a little crafting, it looks like it gets very complicated, which is a good thing. Crafting in Wow for example is about as boring as it gets.
I am paying for Ryzom and have crated an alt and sent him to the mainland. The desert area didn't look to impressive, the Jungle however did. I didn't see very many players, but I have been told that they are all in higher leve areas, so I am not moving my main char from newbie island for a while.
I guess I could sum all of this up by saying, I like them both and plan to continue playing both. Eve is beautifull space, and Ryzom is a beautifull planet. I wish ccp would just buy Nevraxx, then we could all just fly to Ryzom, land our ships and play all in one big game. Until then i will just have to pay for each
u only can compare the customer service performace lag
BestSigEver :P
