Yes one thing they did not understand about ED was how this affected the high level game's levelling speed (or if they understood it they chose to ignore or underestimate its impact). If it took you, with more damage slots,4 hits to take out a bad guy, it's going to take you say 5 hits now. They said, "Well we counter-act the fact that you swing more, by cutting down the endurance costs." So this makes it take the same total endurance to take the guy out. BUT... each swing still takes X seconds. X has not changed. So if you are taking 25% more swings, you are taking 25% longer, to beat up on the same bad guys. That means every mission takes 25% longer, and levelling is 25% slower than before as a result.
Apparently it did not occur to them, or they chose to ignore, that this just might make the game less fun for a lot of people.... especially those who are concerned with levelling, levelling, levelling (which seems to be the main sort of person this game attracts).
Chessack - Actually, it is much more than that because you are also taking more damage from mobs that take longer to take out, and you are taking more damage total as your defensive powers are also not as good. Basically every power is nerfed, so you aren't healing, buffing, or attacking anywhere near what heroes pre-Issue 6 could handle.
Thus, they really need to put leveling speed up by about 75% to get it back to where it was before the enhancement nerfs. . . but I really think they should up it by 100% or more to make the pace of leveling less burdensome.
This is a game that peopel could replay over and over if it weren't such a pain to go through the late game. They have a ton of interesting powersets to play, as evidenced by people playing so many alts. . . but people hate the mid-to-high level game because it's so slow, as evidenced by the huge number of alts that are abandoned between levels 20-35.
Its even possible that they saw the slower leveling progression as a 'positive' thing, given the belief that if a player has reached level 50 and seen all the content, they'll be inclined to leave the game. (My first instinct was actually to build Alts after reaching 50, but I abandoned each of them in the 20s and ultimately quit because it was too slow to level them).
Perhaps they're starting to realize that "The Grind" is one of the biggest complaints leveled against them, so in addition to bringing back some old subs, this weekend could doubly be serving as a "datamining" exercise, to study the results of level progression under double XP.
Originally posted by Chessack Yes one thing they did not understand about ED was how this affected the high level game's levelling speed (or if they understood it they chose to ignore or underestimate its impact). If it took you, with more damage slots,4 hits to take out a bad guy, it's going to take you say 5 hits now. They said, "Well we counter-act the fact that you swing more, by cutting down the endurance costs." So this makes it take the same total endurance to take the guy out. BUT... each swing still takes X seconds. X has not changed. So if you are taking 25% more swings, you are taking 25% longer, to beat up on the same bad guys. That means every mission takes 25% longer, and levelling is 25% slower than before as a result.
Apparently it did not occur to them, or they chose to ignore, that this just might make the game less fun for a lot of people.... especially those who are concerned with levelling, levelling, levelling (which seems to be the main sort of person this game attracts).
C
I had actually pointed out that very thing back when those changes hit the game. I take some small measure of comfort in that I was right, but I would rather they'd reverted the game back to what it had been, because I liked playing it so much.
The Devs have stated that they're happy with the levelling speed. Based on player reactions, they're pretty much the only ones.
Chessack - Actually, it is much more than that because you are also taking more damage from mobs that take longer to take out, and you are taking more damage total as your defensive powers are also not as good. Basically every power is nerfed, so you aren't healing, buffing, or attacking anywhere near what heroes pre-Issue 6 could handle. Thus, they really need to put leveling speed up by about 75% to get it back to where it was before the enhancement nerfs. . . but I really think they should up it by 100% or more to make the pace of leveling less burdensome. This is a game that peopel could replay over and over if it weren't such a pain to go through the late game. They have a ton of interesting powersets to play, as evidenced by people playing so many alts. . . but people hate the mid-to-high level game because it's so slow, as evidenced by the huge number of alts that are abandoned between levels 20-35.
I remember when the Devs admitted how surprised they were that everyone made so many alts. Now they're celebrating that aspect of the game. It's impossible to see all of the content on one toon in CoH, so if you're actually interested in doing that, you need to make a couple alts. Since that's the case, they might as well increase the levelling speed, so people can have multiple toons at the level cap.
I might've been more interested in participating in PvP if you didn't have to change your character's build around to be effective. If you could have multiple characters up at the level cap because of easy levelling, they might have more people doing the PvP thing since you wouldn't have to grind so much to get to 50.
Originally posted by trike Originally posted by Chessack Yes one thing they did not understand about ED was how this affected the high level game's levelling speed (or if they understood it they chose to ignore or underestimate its impact). If it took you, with more damage slots,4 hits to take out a bad guy, it's going to take you say 5 hits now. They said, "Well we counter-act the fact that you swing more, by cutting down the endurance costs." So this makes it take the same total endurance to take the guy out. BUT... each swing still takes X seconds. X has not changed. So if you are taking 25% more swings, you are taking 25% longer, to beat up on the same bad guys. That means every mission takes 25% longer, and levelling is 25% slower than before as a result.
Apparently it did not occur to them, or they chose to ignore, that this just might make the game less fun for a lot of people.... especially those who are concerned with levelling, levelling, levelling (which seems to be the main sort of person this game attracts).
C
I had actually pointed out that very thing back when those changes hit the game. I take some small measure of comfort in that I was right, but I would rather they'd reverted the game back to what it had been, because I liked playing it so much.
The Devs have stated that they're happy with the levelling speed. Based on player reactions, they're pretty much the only ones.
Orly?
There are people complaining about the 2x xp event on the CoH official boards. Complaining.
There are people complaining about the 2x xp event on the CoH official boards. Complaining.
Can't please 'em all.
Wow.
Well, if Cryptic is content to just please those few extremely hardcore folks who've stuck around despite the game being such a grind, then they are stupid. Hopefully, they play the game enough without cheating at all that they know what a grind the game is after level 20 and can make their own decisions.
Originally posted by trike I remember when the Devs admitted how surprised they were that everyone made so many alts. Now they're celebrating that aspect of the game. It's impossible to see all of the content on one toon in CoH, so if you're actually interested in doing that, you need to make a couple alts. Since that's the case, they might as well increase the levelling speed, so people can have multiple toons at the level cap.
I might've been more interested in participating in PvP if you didn't have to change your character's build around to be effective. If you could have multiple characters up at the level cap because of easy levelling, they might have more people doing the PvP thing since you wouldn't have to grind so much to get to 50.
I'll disagree that you need multiple characters to see all the content in CoX. I say that if you always group, you could cover every mission on either the heroe or villian side. How you do those missions is where the alt-aholics syndrome comes into play. Go blaster and your sniping and pulling groups apart. If your a Brute, you SMASH. You could even see the warshade/peacebringer arcs without even having either of those arctypes, just join a group who is doing those story arcs.
PvE characters are a mixed bag for PvP, some builds don't have to change, others you have to completely redo your character. On the other hand, PvP characters work equally well in PvP and PvE.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
There are people complaining about the 2x xp event on the CoH official boards. Complaining.
Can't please 'em all.
Wow.
Well, if Cryptic is content to just please those few extremely hardcore folks who've stuck around despite the game being such a grind, then they are stupid. Hopefully, they play the game enough without cheating at all that they know what a grind the game is after level 20 and can make their own decisions.
Surprise!
To make our Double XP Weekend even more extra-special, we have granted each Supergroup member 20,000 Prestige! This was automatically done during this morning's maintenance, so enjoy!
If they complain about that too.. they can feel free to give it to me.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I agree with making it permanent! Although the game does still feel like a grind even with double xp, of course it could have been me running pvp missions non-stop to get the good xp love but its still grinding.
Somone had mentioned in another forum possibly the main game forums about suggesting a server or a slider bar option that allows people who want more xp to get it but allows for traditional players to still enjoy the game at their level and pace--sounded like a good plan to me...of course you can't make everyone happy and people were still complaining about the double xp weekend saying they leveled toooo fast...wtf!?
Just my 2 infamy!
---I'm not trying to hurt you, I'm simply saving you from that hideous costume you're wearing.
Originally posted by orion2355 I agree with making it permanent! Although the game does still feel like a grind even with double xp, of course it could have been me running pvp missions non-stop to get the good xp love but its still grinding. Somone had mentioned in another forum possibly the main game forums about suggesting a server or a slider bar option that allows people who want more xp to get it but allows for traditional players to still enjoy the game at their level and pace--sounded like a good plan to me...of course you can't make everyone happy and people were still complaining about the double xp weekend saying they leveled toooo fast...wtf!? Just my 2 infamy!
Well, they have a small population that actually plays their game now. . . and there is this weird group of forum people with CoX who don't actually play the game. Instead, they post about the game constantly.
Hopefully some of the devs will play the game on their own without cheating from levels 20-50. I think they'd have to agree that the game neeed to be less of a grind if they actually played it.
I admit, I'm one of those weird forum users who post on here even though I don't have an active account. I do it because I plan on coming back, after the game changes a bit more...kinda like how I reactivated my EQ2 account after they changed their game play. I left EQ2 happy with the state of the game and returned even more happy with the state of the game
The above statement is the opinions of Sanctus_Mors, you do not have to agree, but please be civil
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
Originally posted by Sanctus_Mors @ Dink I admit, I'm one of those weird forum users who post on here even though I don't have an active account. I do it because I plan on coming back, after the game changes a bit more...kinda like how I reactivated my EQ2 account after they changed their game play. I left EQ2 happy with the state of the game and returned even more happy with the state of the game The above statement is the opinions of Sanctus_Mors, you do not have to agree, but please be civil
Not on here. . . on the CoX boards. I thought that was clear from the context. My point is that they have a closed system so their feedback from the CoX boards can no longer be trusted. They've already scared off most of the gamers who have normal or moderate opinions.
Yeah, I was actually reading a Tankers thread entitled "But I'm not broken". I found it mildy entertaining, nothing of note stood out to me that would get it deleted. I can only imagine what someone posted the next day to have the entire thread removed.
Originally posted by tute Yeah, I was actually reading a Tankers thread entitled "But I'm not broken". I found it mildy entertaining, nothing of note stood out to me that would get it deleted. I can only imagine what someone posted the next day to have the entire thread removed.
But that's the thing. . . they've nerfed for so long and so hard that they have these weird forum posters who spent an immense amount of time and effort defending the game and the devs decisions.
I'm not sure what their motivation could be. Maybe they think that they are helping the game by trying to do damage control or something? Or maybe they just don't have experience with other games and don't realize that they are playing a game that is a horrible grind. . . thus low replayability.
On this particular subject, tanks aren't broken as an AT. They do their job of taking damage incredibly well. . . it's just that they are worthless in PvP. No one needs a damage sponge that can only deal minor melee damage in PvP.
I don't think they're broke either aka completely unplayable, just not as fun as they used to be. If they would just raise the aggro/AoE limit up to 30 and our abiilty to handle that many(the amount of +2 Nemesis minions and Lts I could handle at once in Issue 5 at level 50) for toons above level 40 or 45, then I could be a satisfied player again. I'm willing to compromise between herding half a map and the current limit of 17.
Opp, my bad Dink...sorry was thinking these forums. Kinda weird to pay $15 a month and not play. Maybe I should go back and completely edit the post...naw too much work. too much
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
Comments
Apparently it did not occur to them, or they chose to ignore, that this just might make the game less fun for a lot of people.... especially those who are concerned with levelling, levelling, levelling (which seems to be the main sort of person this game attracts).
C
Chessack - Actually, it is much more than that because you are also taking more damage from mobs that take longer to take out, and you are taking more damage total as your defensive powers are also not as good. Basically every power is nerfed, so you aren't healing, buffing, or attacking anywhere near what heroes pre-Issue 6 could handle.
Thus, they really need to put leveling speed up by about 75% to get it back to where it was before the enhancement nerfs. . . but I really think they should up it by 100% or more to make the pace of leveling less burdensome.
This is a game that peopel could replay over and over if it weren't such a pain to go through the late game. They have a ton of interesting powersets to play, as evidenced by people playing so many alts. . . but people hate the mid-to-high level game because it's so slow, as evidenced by the huge number of alts that are abandoned between levels 20-35.
Its even possible that they saw the slower leveling progression as a 'positive' thing, given the belief that if a player has reached level 50 and seen all the content, they'll be inclined to leave the game. (My first instinct was actually to build Alts after reaching 50, but I abandoned each of them in the 20s and ultimately quit because it was too slow to level them).
Perhaps they're starting to realize that "The Grind" is one of the biggest complaints leveled against them, so in addition to bringing back some old subs, this weekend could doubly be serving as a "datamining" exercise, to study the results of level progression under double XP.
The Devs have stated that they're happy with the levelling speed. Based on player reactions, they're pretty much the only ones.
I might've been more interested in participating in PvP if you didn't have to change your character's build around to be effective. If you could have multiple characters up at the level cap because of easy levelling, they might have more people doing the PvP thing since you wouldn't have to grind so much to get to 50.
The Devs have stated that they're happy with the levelling speed. Based on player reactions, they're pretty much the only ones.
Orly?
There are people complaining about the 2x xp event on the CoH official boards. Complaining.
Can't please 'em all.
Wow.
Well, if Cryptic is content to just please those few extremely hardcore folks who've stuck around despite the game being such a grind, then they are stupid. Hopefully, they play the game enough without cheating at all that they know what a grind the game is after level 20 and can make their own decisions.
I'll disagree that you need multiple characters to see all the content in CoX. I say that if you always group, you could cover every mission on either the heroe or villian side. How you do those missions is where the alt-aholics syndrome comes into play. Go blaster and your sniping and pulling groups apart. If your a Brute, you SMASH. You could even see the warshade/peacebringer arcs without even having either of those arctypes, just join a group who is doing those story arcs.
PvE characters are a mixed bag for PvP, some builds don't have to change, others you have to completely redo your character. On the other hand, PvP characters work equally well in PvP and PvE.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
Wow.
Well, if Cryptic is content to just please those few extremely hardcore folks who've stuck around despite the game being such a grind, then they are stupid. Hopefully, they play the game enough without cheating at all that they know what a grind the game is after level 20 and can make their own decisions.
Surprise!
To make our Double XP Weekend even more
extra-special, we have granted each Supergroup member 20,000 Prestige! This was
automatically done during this morning's maintenance, so enjoy!
If they complain about that too.. they can feel free to give it to me.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Double xp. AAAAAAH! That makes me think about SWG. NOOOOOOOOOOO!
Not again...
x)
I'm thinking it's more of a PR thing. Wish they'd make it permanent though--less grind.
I agree with making it permanent! Although the game does still feel like a grind even with double xp, of course it could have been me running pvp missions non-stop to get the good xp love but its still grinding.
Somone had mentioned in another forum possibly the main game forums about suggesting a server or a slider bar option that allows people who want more xp to get it but allows for traditional players to still enjoy the game at their level and pace--sounded like a good plan to me...of course you can't make everyone happy and people were still complaining about the double xp weekend saying they leveled toooo fast...wtf!?
Just my 2 infamy!
---I'm not trying to hurt you, I'm simply saving you from that hideous costume you're wearing.
Well, they have a small population that actually plays their game now. . . and there is this weird group of forum people with CoX who don't actually play the game. Instead, they post about the game constantly.
Hopefully some of the devs will play the game on their own without cheating from levels 20-50. I think they'd have to agree that the game neeed to be less of a grind if they actually played it.
@ Dink
I admit, I'm one of those weird forum users who post on here even though I don't have an active account. I do it because I plan on coming back, after the game changes a bit more...kinda like how I reactivated my EQ2 account after they changed their game play. I left EQ2 happy with the state of the game and returned even more happy with the state of the game
The above statement is the opinions of Sanctus_Mors, you do not have to agree, but please be civil
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
But that's the thing. . . they've nerfed for so long and so hard that they have these weird forum posters who spent an immense amount of time and effort defending the game and the devs decisions.
I'm not sure what their motivation could be. Maybe they think that they are helping the game by trying to do damage control or something? Or maybe they just don't have experience with other games and don't realize that they are playing a game that is a horrible grind. . . thus low replayability.
On this particular subject, tanks aren't broken as an AT. They do their job of taking damage incredibly well. . . it's just that they are worthless in PvP. No one needs a damage sponge that can only deal minor melee damage in PvP.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't