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Breaking the NDA?
Kialey
Member Posts: 42
I'm curious about the consequences for breaking an NDA and revealing information obtained surreptitiously from a company.
Let's say I'd like to post some FRAP videos obtained from a friend who is in the beta for a hugely hyped and widely anticipated upcoming MMOG. Say I post it on a certain message board where I know everyone will see it. What will happen? *I* haven't signed any contracts with any game companies since I'm not in the beta. It could be argued that the company owns the copyright in the video, but would posting small 30 second videos be a violation of that copyright, or would it fall under the fair use exception for news reporting? I mean, gamers everywhere would say the videos are pretty damn news-worthy. It would be a violation of their trade secrets, but once the cat's out of the bag on a trade secret, that secret goes poof. Since I didn't obtain the video, I couldn't be charged with that, I'm thinking. So what then? What are the consequences TO ME? I imagine that I could be forced to reveal the leaker who could possibly be charged with breach of contract, though I seriously doubt it would ever come to that.
As a related analogy, why do websites have to take down pictures taken of movie sets? AICN, for instance, was required to remove the shots of Bumblebee's mock up for the upcoming Transformers movie. Why?
I'm not looking for gut opinions, just facts... if you got em.
Thanks!
Comments
The worst I've seen is they will just delete your beta account so you can no longer participate. That's fact.
As far as any kind of actual legal matter, I doubt it seriously and even if they could bring it into the courts it's far fetched and they most likely wouldn't.
It's really about respecting the company that runs the beta.
Well, as I said, I'm not the one with the beta account. So I can be forced to remove the link? Can the message board I choose to post to be required to remove it? I'm sure they would receive a cease and desist letter.... but does the threat have any teeth?
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But on what basis? I understand it can be harmful to their company, but just because you post damaging news about a company doesn't mean you open yourself up to a lawsuit. This would seem like a First Amendment issue, or at least a fair use exception to the copyright act.
What could they sue me for? What basis would they have to demand removal of a video from beta?
It won't hold water in the courts to be honest if it even got that far which I seriously doubt. The company can go to the site you posted the images on and flash the NDA in their face and have it removed and that site WILL remove it.
The company couldn't touch you though because you didn't sign anything and even if it was YOU in the beta, it would still have a hard time holding water in today's court system.
If it was me I wouldn't post the images because it really could hurt the company itself trying to keep a game in beta behind closed doors until a future date.
Am I helping any?
It won't hold water in the courts to be honest if it even got that far which I seriously doubt. The company can go to the site you posted the images on and flash the NDA in their face and have it removed and that site WILL remove it.
The company couldn't touch you though because you didn't sign anything and even if it was YOU in the beta, it would still have a hard time holding water in today's court system.
If it was me I wouldn't post the images because it really could hurt the company itself trying to keep a game in beta behind closed doors until a future date.
Am I helping any?
I understand the moral obligations in not posting images of a game under development, but for now, I'm focusing solely on the legal aspect of it.
WHY would the forum have to remove the links? The NDA doesn't bind the chosen forum, so what would waiving it in their face do? The NDA is a contract between the parties involved - the game company and the tester. Why couldn't a news site, such as MMORPG.com, post newsworthy images from a game currently in closed beta?
I think that if legal action were taken against anyone, it'd be taken against the friend of your's that leaked the video to you... or something. I mean, it wouldn't be too hard to find out where you are, then put two and two together to see who gave you the video... right?
regardless if you personally agreed to any NDA
these items are copyrighted and protected. any website hosting copyrighted and protected materials is ultimately responsible, not the user who posted the information
kinda like if i wanted to host a bunch of MP3's by metallica on my website for free and never purchased the cd, someone uploaded it to me (or i own the cd, same logic)
the person that holds the rights to anything belonging to the game has to give you exclusive permission to use it, nobody else can do this.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
I understand that the video could be damaging to the company, but how does that bind me to their beta rules? I've signed nothing. I've given no verbal assurances to the company that I'll abide by their rules. My friend, of course, did. I understand that he could be in hot water if I were compelled to reveal his identity, but short of that, I just don't see how the company has a leg to stand on against ME or the forum I posted the link on.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes - that's the biggest issue I see as well. HOWEVER, there is a fair use exception to the Copyright Act for news reporting. A brief video snipet of an upcoming game posted to give information to others might fall into that category. I don't know the answer to whether that's applicable or not.
And actually - I think there's a similar case on an analagous issue: someone obtained the exclusive rights to President Ford's memoirs, but the heart of this information was scooped by a news site that posted all of the big secrets of the forthcoming book. With the big secrets out, the publisher complained, no one would buy the book. Unfortunately, I don't remember the outcome of this. lol
but it is a legal issue. per my last response, the material is protected. the game distributors have exclusive rights to this information and it can only be distributed by them
regardless of any NDA you chose to sign, if you distribute information that they did not personally release.. you would be held accountable.
there ARE copyright and distribution laws you know..
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Yes - that's the biggest issue I see as well. HOWEVER, there is a fair use exception to the Copyright Act for news reporting. A brief video snipet of an upcoming game posted to give information to others might fall into that category. I don't know the answer to whether that's applicable or not.
And actually - I think there's a similar case on an analagous issue: someone obtained the exclusive rights to President Ford's memoirs, but the heart of this information was scooped by a news site that posted all of the big secrets of the forthcoming book. With the big secrets out, the publisher complained, no one would buy the book. Unfortunately, I don't remember the outcome of this. lol
honestly, nobody has ever really got in any trouble for releasing information on video games prematurely (that I know of). its hard to track down who did what.
but there have been numerous occassions when information was prematurely leaked by whatever media, and had to be pulled once the game distributor/developer got wind of it.
take the dreanei announcement Computer Gaming Magazine made.
so "real" trouble? not so much.. but leaving information on a site that doesnt belong to you is another discussion. I would imagine if such info was leaked and was considered damaging enough that the game company wanted it pulled, they would do so.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Movie critics have to request permission to use a scene from a movie if it isnt released yet
Yes - that's the biggest issue I see as well. HOWEVER, there is a fair use exception to the Copyright Act for news reporting. A brief video snipet of an upcoming game posted to give information to others might fall into that category. I don't know the answer to whether that's applicable or not.
And actually - I think there's a similar case on an analagous issue: someone obtained the exclusive rights to President Ford's memoirs, but the heart of this information was scooped by a news site that posted all of the big secrets of the forthcoming book. With the big secrets out, the publisher complained, no one would buy the book. Unfortunately, I don't remember the outcome of this. lol
honestly, nobody has ever really got in any trouble for releasing information on video games prematurely (that I know of). its hard to track down who did what.
but there have been numerous occassions when information was prematurely leaked by whatever media, and had to be pulled once the game distributor/developer got wind of it.
take the dreanei announcement Computer Gaming Magazine made.
so "real" trouble? not so much.. but leaving information on a site that doesnt belong to you is another discussion. I would imagine if such info was leaked and was considered damaging enough that the game company wanted it pulled, they would do so.
Interesting... I'll look that up. I'm not aware CGW pulling an announcement. Then again, if true, it was probably done for public relations purposes. Blizzard likely said, if you don't pull this, we're not giving you any future interviews, screenshots, or information for your magazine.
But isn't that similar to the NYT posting about the NSA spying program? Or the PACER bank monitoring? Certainly the leaker can be prosecuted, but not the news provider.
Also, it sounds like your dipping into national security issues, which opens a whole 'nother can of worms.
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Nonesense. I *know* that's not the way the law works. If I run a news site and say insiders tell me that Microsoft's new Vista software will be horrible, and those statements are taken as true and hurt the company, I am not liable for any damages to Microsoft. The First Amendment protects us against that. If I just completely make up the story, then sure. But otherwise, no. Also, proving speculative damages like that would be beyond impossible.
No, there has to be an actual cause of action before suit can be brought. Copyright violation sounds like the only viable one to me so far. I don't believe, in the scenario I presented, I can be prosecuted for breach of contract of disclosure of their trade secrets.
You have to remember that online gaming isnt very old. True there has never been a big scene about a NDA agreement breech, it doesnt mean one will happen soon. Depending on where and how its done, Breaking an NDA might amount to corporate espionage, or else it might amount to a slap on the wrist. Only time will tell.
actually this is similar to an apple fourm,
at http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/174096756/m/101002222731
In hypothetical terms...
If someone were to perhaps release this information on a... less than accurate account of youTube (or something of the like) under a less than accurate forum name... it wouldn't be in a companies best interest to be hunting down company after company to try and get them to release personal IP addresses and the like... so the leak would be annonymous so to speak.
As for the legal matter, in a hypothetical situation as above, I don't think much would come into play as it would be more than a nuissance to find out who did it...
But this is all hypothetical, of course
EDIT: And in this hypothetical situation the hypothetical poster would have to hypothetically e-mail me this link for further observation immediately... just in case of course...