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Episode 45 of The Galaxy Report is out... Fariq interviewed Helios..
Xcathdra
Member CommonPosts: 1,027
Lifted from the SWG forums: The interview with Helios starts at time index 54:20. And sorry to fariq for posting this in here. He usually does...
Xcathdra
http://soe.lithium.com/swg/board/message?board.id=swggpdiscussion&message.id=1007385
We are back with a planned out episode and I think things went well. Here are some of the things we talked about in Episode 45
- What you been doing
- Publish 1.4 Notes
- Summit Notes
- Chapter 2 on Test Center
- Star Wars Galaxies: Complete
- Features from other MMO's we would like to see
- Interview with The Dread Lord Helios Lead Designer of SWG
- Flip's Friday Feature
- TGR Enhancements
I want to thank Helios for taking the time to chat with us.
I would also like to mention that we have a poll on the TGR site seeing if you like the Auto-Aim/Auto-Attack feature on TC. We also put up a thread on our forums looking for the reasons you either like or dis-like it. We are hoping to incoperate this into the show more so we can talk about not only our thoughts but also how some of you are feeling about the games newer features.
Hope to hear from you either in here or on the TGR boards and hope you enjoy this weeks show!!!
Message Edited by Laundryservent on 07-23-2006 09:08 AM
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Comments
Beat me to posting this....
It was a desent show, although I think they were a bit soft on the Publish Plan Timeline... You guys should have DEFINATLY been harder about the missing CD system & the Unbalancing Expertise Release Schedule...
I understand the Softball Interview... I wish they would have asked the hard questions, but it's hard to get the Condemmed to show up to their Hanging...
As far as what game features from other games I'd like to see:
Not a bad show...
Also, if you're going Flame, please don't... Some like me still enjoy the show, even though I don't play anymore...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
The interview was meant to be a quick little chat about 3 years of Galaxies. It was to be part of our 3rd Anniversary show just took awhile to fall into place. I will try to work on getting someone on the show in a little more open dialogue in the future.
Glad you enjoyed the show and I agree Scout as a secondary profession.
When talking about the camping thread, and he stated that although the thread was a bit hostile, he got what he wented out of it, I would liked to know what he did get out of it, and if there was anything actionable down the line.
When talking about GCW and battlefields, I would like to know what there plans are to add more PvE combat aspects to the GCW. Since it seems eveything they added locks out non PvPrs
Thanks though, it was agood report
I just got done listening to it... Good show for the most part. I do wish you guys could of been more persistant with the questions you asked of Helios, but I also understand how that goes...
The one thing I dont really agree with was when Helios was talking about posting, and getting flamed all the time. I would guess if they actually communicated MORE, and gave substance in their repsonses, it might not be so bad. The other problem is He came across as I dont want to post becuase the players are being mean..Sounded like he wants people to kiss ass.. Thats jsut how I perceived it though..
If you ever get a chance would you please ask someone upon high how the FPS style combat ever came about. I still have not seen an answer to this. The only dev who ever responded to my question on this was PEX, and all he said was he wasn't in on that meeting..
As far as what I would like to see in the game... Definiatley the stuff from the post above.. I would like to see them get away from the solo action though, and go back to some interdepndability from profession to profession... I wish they would do what they are going to do with Jedi and BH, and move on to the other professions instead of ignoring them though. If the expertise system is going to cause an unblance, then dont implement it... Get all of the trees for all professions in place and then push it live. This will avoid the complaints about haveing 2 alpha professions, and will avoid them being nerfed for the sake of the professions who have not gotten their expertise tress yet...
Also, did I read somewhere or hear they are thinking about doing cross professions? being able to take bits and pieces from other expertise trees?
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
A person in his position should have better communication skills, and understand good customer service.
Well I listened to the Helios part of the show, and I think Fariq was clear they had to get questions approved ahead of time with LEC (think thats what he said) so you couldn't expect some Jerry Springer interview thing...
Helios acknowledged he was trying to get information about what exactly it was about camps that was missed but it didn't come off well on his part. What he did say was that in the passionate responses he got, he found the information he was looking for, that of course being a list of reasons people liked camps.
He sounded very reasonable to me. Battlefields sure isn't something I'd prefer focus on, but the GCW is, at the base, supposed be be the reason for the games existence so *grumble* I guess I can see it...
I would prefer that they just put back what they have taken away (BE, CH, Ranger, Doctor (yes it is gone don't tell me its not some cruddy BS form of CM), all the crafting professions back to the level of usefulness they had...just put it all back then do whatever else you have in mind. But undo the damage already done, and don't do anymore going forward.
You know how come Fariq never adresses why the forums are the way they are with with flames and trolls? He always just blows off that issue then goes on with this lets defend SOE and get our points across respectfully and fix there bugs for them because Devs are to busy with character aging what bs. The reason the forums are the way they are because of SOE !! and they continue to lie and lie and lie!! So how can u have any respect for a company like that or the people? I would love to see this addressed with honesty not oh there great guys i know i had dinner with them for 5 minutes they really want a good game. So i dont feel bad for poor Helios cuz he cant go on the boards and be told hes great and NGE is awesome and whatever else he wants to hear. Because SOE caused this whole problem with the boards NOT THE PLAYERS!! The other issue is they dont care about the game NGE is the prime example of this. People want complexity and diversity not battlefront with wow together. They disregarded and threw away the vets for one and then the peoples who proffesions got axed was just plain wrong and unnaceptable as well. So u have these issues combined with ongoing lies and they wonder why people flame the way they do when they created the problem in the first place. As for ides everyones told them what they want and they dont give 2 sh#ts all they want is to hear how to make NGE bearable and better and it sucks!!
We're sitting in our offices thinking of ways to upset our paying customers. I think were on track to meet that goal.
John Smedley
I understand, but considering this was promised by Smed 6 months from the launch of the NGE, and was promised for Publish 30 at the Summits (and in posts) by the Dev's, this is a big issue. It's about trust, vision & followthrough IMO.
We all have those moments, where we want what we can get & to see the future. It gives us hope. However, what is it going to do to the game? What will new players think? What will it do the the Profession Balance? Why are they starting with 2 Professions that will beneift least from these changes, instead of those that NEED SOMETHING? This could destroy the game. Right now, it's about 3 months between Pubs. How long will people play in an unbalanced system?
If you haven't had a chance, try the DDO Demo. I'm not saying it's a great game, but the Combat system is worth a peak. After you get the feel of it, imagine if you could play like that in SWG. It's not perfect, but it's definatly a good Action / RPG combat system, and best one I've seen to this point.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
I would like to request that YOU Obraik make a constructive post regarding one thing I have a concern with. I would do it, but I am not subscribed.
Please explain to them that we want the camera centered behind us and not a over the shoulder view thing. I personally would like the option to go from centered to First Person View. I just have a hard time steering my character around when he is turned to the right slightly.
Thank you Obraik if you can do this for us.
I do plan to return to Galaxies, but I am waiting for my new computer. I want to do the station pass thing, so I can play both EQ2 and SWG.
Another thing I got from this, is that there won't be a rollback. From what I hear, he wants to know what you liked about the Pre-CU, game mechanic wise. Such as having the camera centered, or things that can be possibly implemented in the NGE system.
I am convinced that the NGE is here to stay and that SOE does want to make this a fun game for everyone to play. I believe they are doing their best. I believe they are listening to people, but people aren't responding with constructive posts. Note that not every idea or wish will be implemented that you elaborate on in their forums. So posting, "Give us Pre-CU servers" isn't constructive.
A person in his position should have better communication skills, and understand good customer service.
Not to defend Helios, but just to play the devils advocate and it could be true also. I've been to college and can tell that he has decent communicative skills or at least he has the knowledge to from what he described as having a constructive post. Maybe it's not his communication skills, but other comprehending skills. I have read the forums a lot and have noticed that most posters don't show any sign of knowing how to use the English language properly. This leads me to believe that the fault may lie with posters and not him. Another thing worth mentioning is that the Moderators are the CSR's, not Helios. While it wouldn't hurt to have good customer relations skills, his position does not require him to provide customer service to you all.
Another poster said that it seemed like he was implying that we kiss his ass in our posts. I didn't see it that way, because what he says is taught in basic college composition. What I get from the community and from your post with the customer service comment, is that he should be kissing ours, which is also wrong.
Thank you.
Intresting take.. but here is one of the issues.. They say the NGE is here to say and they wont be doing a roolback. However we are seeing them taking stuff from pre NGE days (some stuff they said would never come back) and placing it back into the game. To me this says the NGE has failed for what they thought it could do. In order to save it we are seeing them adding stuff back in the players loved.
SOE / LEC still have never answered to anyones satisfaction HOW the NGE came about. I dont buy into the Feedback from Veterans, as they state.
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
A flaw in Helios' thinking regarding the communication skills of players is: the Combat Upgrade and NGE drove out Doctors, Armorsmiths, Weaponsmiths, Bioengineers, Rangers, Creature Handlers, and so many more professions that attracted thoughtful articulate people.
Although there are still many on the official boards and a high percentage here who can say what they think in the civilized manner Helios admires, the target audience of the game spends more time thinking about the size of their lightsabers than they do game mechanics and visions of a Galactic Civil War that means anything at all. The Developers have the populace, by and large, that they asked for. And they seem so unhappy about it. How do they really plan to go forward from here?
A person in his position should have better communication skills, and understand good customer service.
Not to defend Helios, but just to play the devils advocate and it could be true also. I've been to college and can tell that he has decent communicative skills or at least he has the knowledge to from what he described as having a constructive post. Maybe it's not his communication skills, but other comprehending skills. I have read the forums a lot and have noticed that most posters don't show any sign of knowing how to use the English language properly. This leads me to believe that the fault may lie with posters and not him. Another thing worth mentioning is that the Moderators are the CSR's, not Helios. While it wouldn't hurt to have good customer relations skills, his position does not require him to provide customer service to you all.
Another poster said that it seemed like he was implying that we kiss his ass in our posts. I didn't see it that way, because what he says is taught in basic college composition. What I get from the community and from your post with the customer service comment, is that he should be kissing ours, which is also wrong.
Thank you.
I am not saying the DEVS need to kiss the playerbases ass. I am saying the Devs shouldnt ignore valid and well written posts just because they are negative or dont put the NGE in a good light. The Devs do NOT communicate with the players like the should. They could easily add polls to the game that only current subscribers can access, yet they dont( In my opinion thier egos could not take the shock that the majority of people dont like some of the things they are doing). They try to infer what the players want from threads that they only post once or twice in. You cant make a game that the majority of people will like by doing it that way.
You also cannot create a post named shinies and trinkets and NOT expect the playerbase to be pissed about it. Its all about how you present yourself to the people, and acting like you are better than they or you are smarter than they are is wrong, no matter how you meant it, because in the end its hard to convey humor / feeling in a written text. Not to mention once the topics are started they are for the most part left alone by the OP, when they could of taken some time and asked people to explain their ideas and build off of them. I have only seen this once in the fourms, and in the end we had about 22 pages of very useful ideas that solved a myriad of isses. In the end thoughnone ever saw the light of day.... Hope fades...
I beleive the comment by Helios about the camps spoke a thousand words. Whether or not people took it the wrong way it went on to show that the LEAD designer for the game, the one with the vision, had no clue how integral basic community relations were in game. To follow up he made absolutely no attempt to explain what he was trying to do with that question. He opened up pandoras box, and instead of stating "Hey, this is why I want to know" He just left the room to go nuts.. Not once did he define his intentions.
I understand he has been to college, as have I... Just because one is educated doesnt mean one knows how to speak to the public.
To clarify my point... There was a study done between a groupf of college Seniors (engineering) and a group of 5th graders. They were both given the same problem - Take this elephant and find a way to place him into a refridgerator. The college students spent most of their time coming up with equations and forumlaes to try to fit the elephant into the refridgerator. In the end the 5th graders beat the college students with their answer = An elephant CANNOT fit into a refridgerator.
Sometime the most educated of people still miss the simple points. I beleive Helios fits in this category.. No doubt he is intelligent and knows what he is talking about, but I think he lacks the ability to "see" how important simple conceptes are to the game, as well as talk to the people .He can give us 20 thousand lines of code to fix a professions, but in the end he wont be able to understand how people use that profession to interact with others to gain enjoyment from it from a social aspect.
I have been to college, I have been through 2 police academies for 2 different states, and I have talked to my fair share of Super intelligent people and people with very little to no education. I have found the more intelligent people are, the more self important they think they are, the more they think they are right, the more they think everyone else is wrong, the more they think people should bend to the way they see the world.
In the end the major issue I see is not the NGE, or auto aim, or the progaramming issues. It is Communication They have never been good at this (from SOE to LEC, from managment to the devs to Customer service down to the players). They just assume they know what they are doing and do it, and dont take into account how the players feel about something. I can safely assume that had they said the CU is not working out and this is our idea of how to fix it)NGE), yeah people would of complained, but the bulk would of felt like they are part of the solution, and stuck around. The devs spend a lot of their time coding the game.. I would safely say the players spend more time in game than the devs do coding it. This whole thing could of been averted had they simply communicated... That, in the end, is their undoing.
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Also, every time SOE says they care about the game or want to make it fun, is an outright lie.
Every day they show that it's a lie. If they really wanted to make the game good and bring in players to an immersive and fun game, they'd roll back to Pre-CU and work from there. Just doing that would make the game much more playable, much more fun, much more immersive, and bring in many more players. Any bugs they could fix from there and they could recode all the content from the CU on into the Pre-CU system. That would be what's best for the game. That would make it fun. That would show they care.
Their refusal to even open a couple classic servers shows that they don't give a rat's ass.
/rant off
SWG Tempest: Cardo Dycen RIP
Eve: Cardoh Dycen
I support random drug testing for all SOE employees
Intresting take.. but here is one of the issues.. They say the NGE is here to say and they wont be doing a roolback. However we are seeing them taking stuff from pre NGE days (some stuff they said would never come back) and placing it back into the game. To me this says the NGE has failed for what they thought it could do. In order to save it we are seeing them adding stuff back in the players loved.
SOE / LEC still have never answered to anyones satisfaction HOW the NGE came about. I dont buy into the Feedback from Veterans, as they state.
Xcathdra
It may be so that the NGE is a failure and that they are implementing Pre-NGE things back into the game. That only strengthens my point though. They won't be doing a roll back, but they will re-implement things that used to be in the game that they see their customers wanting. I'm sure they won't implement everything the customers ask for, because for one, some of the things customers ask for won't fit with the NGE and for two, it may not fit the vision that the Devs have for SWG now. I see no problem with this, as it is their game.
It is only SOE/LEC responsibility to provide you with an explanation. Even then, it is not something they have to do. Whether or not it is to anyones satisfaction is not their problem. You could argue that it is their problem by stating that subscriptions will fall because of it. You are right in that argument, but it still does not change the fact that they are obligated to give you an explanation for changing their game. It is also not their problem that you don't buy into the feedback from Veterans thing. Suppose the feedback from Veteran thing is true. What if the Veterans that gave feedback are the same 100k Veteran subscribers that are still playing. Suppose the 200k Veteran subscribers that quit because of the NGE didn't speak up, and that is believable since we all know the forums are the vocal minority. They could be right. There was a source that said 80% of the playerbase are veterans and that 110k-170k people still play SWG, which by non WOW standards is still doing pretty good. Compare those numbers to games like DAoC and AC, which are arguably better games right now.
Interesting points Athela. Allow me to comment on them. The Professions you named with the exception of Rangers and CH's are non combative professions and from a certain viewpoint can be considered more of a Roleplaying role, which I support of course. No from a roleplaying standpoint, you can still roleplay as a Doctor and the many other professions you named off. As a matter of fact, you can still play the majority of those professions, just in a condensed manner.
As stated by Obraik, which I trust and I admire his character, especially with the taunts and flames he has weant through on this forum, but yet he still stays optimistic and nice; he stated that most people on his server were above the age of 18 and also that 100+ people were participating in the Restuss event (PvP wise). Now if Obraik is to be believed, which I find no reason not to, chances are people are mature minded and people take part in the GCW. This goes directly against what you said and also against what the disgruntle Vets state as the target market, which has been coined as 12 years olds with ADD.
So I find it very easy to see how SOE plans to go forward from here.
A person in his position should have better communication skills, and understand good customer service.
Not to defend Helios, but just to play the devils advocate and it could be true also. I've been to college and can tell that he has decent communicative skills or at least he has the knowledge to from what he described as having a constructive post. Maybe it's not his communication skills, but other comprehending skills. I have read the forums a lot and have noticed that most posters don't show any sign of knowing how to use the English language properly. This leads me to believe that the fault may lie with posters and not him. Another thing worth mentioning is that the Moderators are the CSR's, not Helios. While it wouldn't hurt to have good customer relations skills, his position does not require him to provide customer service to you all.
Another poster said that it seemed like he was implying that we kiss his ass in our posts. I didn't see it that way, because what he says is taught in basic college composition. What I get from the community and from your post with the customer service comment, is that he should be kissing ours, which is also wrong.
Thank you.
I did not mean communications skills from a mechanical standpoint. It doesn't seem that he really thinks things through before he communicates to the playerbase, and then doesn't follow up to clearify his meaning. Like it or not he is one of the faces of the management team. He needs to not only be clear and concise on what he is saying and why, but then explain as mush as he can when questioned.
I don't think he should kiss ass, but he should know and appreciate where his paychecks come from, and treat the customer with kid gloves given the tense and volitle enviroment of the forums. Even though he may tell us something we don't want to hear, there is a certain way to relay difficult messages to people with out causing more speculation and anger.
A person in his position should have better communication skills, and understand good customer service.
Not to defend Helios, but just to play the devils advocate and it could be true also. I've been to college and can tell that he has decent communicative skills or at least he has the knowledge to from what he described as having a constructive post. Maybe it's not his communication skills, but other comprehending skills. I have read the forums a lot and have noticed that most posters don't show any sign of knowing how to use the English language properly. This leads me to believe that the fault may lie with posters and not him. Another thing worth mentioning is that the Moderators are the CSR's, not Helios. While it wouldn't hurt to have good customer relations skills, his position does not require him to provide customer service to you all.
Another poster said that it seemed like he was implying that we kiss his ass in our posts. I didn't see it that way, because what he says is taught in basic college composition. What I get from the community and from your post with the customer service comment, is that he should be kissing ours, which is also wrong.
Thank you.
I am not saying the DEVS need to kiss the playerbases ass. I am saying the Devs shouldnt ignore valid and well written posts just because they are negative or dont put the NGE in a good light. The Devs do NOT communicate with the players like the should. They could easily add polls to the game that only current subscribers can access, yet they dont( In my opinion thier egos could not take the shock that the majority of people dont like some of the things they are doing). They try to infer what the players want from threads that they only post once or twice in. You cant make a game that the majority of people will like by doing it that way.
You also cannot create a post named shinies and trinkets and NOT expect the playerbase to be pissed about it. Its all about how you present yourself to the people, and acting like you are better than they or you are smarter than they are is wrong, no matter how you meant it, because in the end its hard to convey humor / feeling in a written text. Not to mention once the topics are started they are for the most part left alone by the OP, when they could of taken some time and asked people to explain their ideas and build off of them. I have only seen this once in the fourms, and in the end we had about 22 pages of very useful ideas that solved a myriad of isses. In the end thoughnone ever saw the light of day.... Hope fades...
I beleive the comment by Helios about the camps spoke a thousand words. Whether or not people took it the wrong way it went on to show that the LEAD designer for the game, the one with the vision, had no clue how integral basic community relations were in game. To follow up he made absolutely no attempt to explain what he was trying to do with that question. He opened up pandoras box, and instead of stating "Hey, this is why I want to know" He just left the room to go nuts.. Not once did he define his intentions.
I understand he has been to college, as have I... Just because one is educated doesnt mean one knows how to speak to the public.
To clarify my point... There was a study done between a groupf of college Seniors (engineering) and a group of 5th graders. They were both given the same problem - Take this elephant and find a way to place him into a refridgerator. The college students spent most of their time coming up with equations and forumlaes to try to fit the elephant into the refridgerator. In the end the 5th graders beat the college students with their answer = An elephant CANNOT fit into a refridgerator.
Sometime the most educated of people still miss the simple points. I beleive Helios fits in this category.. No doubt he is intelligent and knows what he is talking about, but I think he lacks the ability to "see" how important simple conceptes are to the game, as well as talk to the people .He can give us 20 thousand lines of code to fix a professions, but in the end he wont be able to understand how people use that profession to interact with others to gain enjoyment from it from a social aspect.
I have been to college, I have been through 2 police academies for 2 different states, and I have talked to my fair share of Super intelligent people and people with very little to no education. I have found the more intelligent people are, the more self important they think they are, the more they think they are right, the more they think everyone else is wrong, the more they think people should bend to the way they see the world.
In the end the major issue I see is not the NGE, or auto aim, or the progaramming issues. It is Communication They have never been good at this (from SOE to LEC, from managment to the devs to Customer service down to the players). They just assume they know what they are doing and do it, and dont take into account how the players feel about something. I can safely assume that had they said the CU is not working out and this is our idea of how to fix it)NGE), yeah people would of complained, but the bulk would of felt like they are part of the solution, and stuck around. The devs spend a lot of their time coding the game.. I would safely say the players spend more time in game than the devs do coding it. This whole thing could of been averted had they simply communicated... That, in the end, is their undoing.
Xcathdra
Everything you just typed should be in a memo and placed on every desk at SOE.
I am not saying the DEVS need to kiss the playerbases ass. I am saying the Devs shouldnt ignore valid and well written posts just because they are negative or dont put the NGE in a good light. The Devs do NOT communicate with the players like the should. They could easily add polls to the game that only current subscribers can access, yet they dont( In my opinion thier egos could not take the shock that the majority of people dont like some of the things they are doing). They try to infer what the players want from threads that they only post once or twice in. You cant make a game that the majority of people will like by doing it that way.
You also cannot create a post named shinies and trinkets and NOT expect the playerbase to be pissed about it. Its all about how you present yourself to the people, and acting like you are better than they or you are smarter than they are is wrong, no matter how you meant it, because in the end its hard to convey humor / feeling in a written text. Not to mention once the topics are started they are for the most part left alone by the OP, when they could of taken some time and asked people to explain their ideas and build off of them. I have only seen this once in the fourms, and in the end we had about 22 pages of very useful ideas that solved a myriad of isses. In the end thoughnone ever saw the light of day.... Hope fades...
I beleive the comment by Helios about the camps spoke a thousand words. Whether or not people took it the wrong way it went on to show that the LEAD designer for the game, the one with the vision, had no clue how integral basic community relations were in game. To follow up he made absolutely no attempt to explain what he was trying to do with that question. He opened up pandoras box, and instead of stating "Hey, this is why I want to know" He just left the room to go nuts.. Not once did he define his intentions.
I understand he has been to college, as have I... Just because one is educated doesnt mean one knows how to speak to the public.
To clarify my point... There was a study done between a groupf of college Seniors (engineering) and a group of 5th graders. They were both given the same problem - Take this elephant and find a way to place him into a refridgerator. The college students spent most of their time coming up with equations and forumlaes to try to fit the elephant into the refridgerator. In the end the 5th graders beat the college students with their answer = An elephant CANNOT fit into a refridgerator.
Sometime the most educated of people still miss the simple points. I beleive Helios fits in this category.. No doubt he is intelligent and knows what he is talking about, but I think he lacks the ability to "see" how important simple conceptes are to the game, as well as talk to the people .He can give us 20 thousand lines of code to fix a professions, but in the end he wont be able to understand how people use that profession to interact with others to gain enjoyment from it from a social aspect.
I have been to college, I have been through 2 police academies for 2 different states, and I have talked to my fair share of Super intelligent people and people with very little to no education. I have found the more intelligent people are, the more self important they think they are, the more they think they are right, the more they think everyone else is wrong, the more they think people should bend to the way they see the world.
In the end the major issue I see is not the NGE, or auto aim, or the progaramming issues. It is Communication They have never been good at this (from SOE to LEC, from managment to the devs to Customer service down to the players). They just assume they know what they are doing and do it, and dont take into account how the players feel about something. I can safely assume that had they said the CU is not working out and this is our idea of how to fix it)NGE), yeah people would of complained, but the bulk would of felt like they are part of the solution, and stuck around. The devs spend a lot of their time coding the game.. I would safely say the players spend more time in game than the devs do coding it. This whole thing could of been averted had they simply communicated... That, in the end, is their undoing.
Xcathdra
You may be right when you suggested that Helios may be clueless as to what the customers want and from what I gleaned from the interview, he has a vision and that's the way it is and he may take ideas as long as they are constructed properly and backed up with proof or explanations.
So this is why I believe it is very important for those that are unhappy to take their time in writing out a post. They should include a thesis that states their point or problem clearly and then procede to proving or explaining their point in detail with the use of easy to read bullets or numbers, so that Helios can easily go back and forth from the post to his tablet or whatever he takes notes on. Maybe he will use the idea, maybe he won't, but the point is that we need to get our point across the best way possible and it requires people to use the writing skills they were taught. If he doesn't listen, then we know to stay away from the game, but what if he does listen? It has been proven with the auto aim and dark/light expertise trees that they have been listening.
What I am saying is if you want to change the game, you need to play by their rules or speak with your wallet. Either way, that is all there is to do and no reason to get bent out of shape about it. We all wasted time, were attached to the old game, has lost valuable items or were made worthless, but in the end, it is a game. A persons values should be more than SWG. It's black and white to me. Play by their rules or speak with your wallet. Because we all know, they won't pay any attention to complaining and rants. We all know how those petitions for Pre-CU worked out. We all know how well quitting the game worked out also. Either way they will move forward with the NGE and the only thing we can do to get our old game back is by having some of the features implemented into the NGE. The only way that will happen is by posting contructively and clear.
I don't think he should kiss ass, but he should know and appreciate where his paychecks come from, and treat the customer with kid gloves given the tense and volitle enviroment of the forums. Even though he may tell us something we don't want to hear, there is a certain way to relay difficult messages to people with out causing more speculation and anger.
You are right. He may not think things through and then he might procede to post things that are ambiguous. This just results in many interpretations of his meaning on what he posts and could incite riots like the one I am gethering happened on the boards.
Interesting points Athela. Allow me to comment on them. The Professions you named with the exception of Rangers and CH's are non combative professions and from a certain viewpoint can be considered more of a Roleplaying role, which I support of course. No from a roleplaying standpoint, you can still roleplay as a Doctor and the many other professions you named off. As a matter of fact, you can still play the majority of those professions, just in a condensed manner.
So I find it very easy to see how SOE plans to go forward from here.
As a matter of fact, I used to roleplay a doctor. I had an inventory full of woundpacks, stims, cure poison/cure disease/buffs, HEALING stuff that made me feel like a doc. I tried to help keep people alive, healthy and strong. Now, my inventory is filled with brains and organs and my toolbar is full of poisons. I was a TK Master, then a Master Swordsman to help in a fight as well. Now I stand around emitting noxious gas (in game only
). It just isn't fun to roleplay a doctor anymore.
Why would anyone condense when they can add and enhance?
Interesting points Athela. Allow me to comment on them. The Professions you named with the exception of Rangers and CH's are non combative professions and from a certain viewpoint can be considered more of a Roleplaying role, which I support of course. No from a roleplaying standpoint, you can still roleplay as a Doctor and the many other professions you named off. As a matter of fact, you can still play the majority of those professions, just in a condensed manner.
So I find it very easy to see how SOE plans to go forward from here.
As a matter of fact, I used to roleplay a doctor. I had an inventory full of woundpacks, stims, cure poison/cure disease/buffs, HEALING stuff that made me feel like a doc. I tried to help keep people alive, healthy and strong. Now, my inventory is filled with brains and organs and my toolbar is full of poisons. I was a TK Master, then a Master Swordsman to help in a fight as well. Now I stand around emitting noxious gas (in game only
). It just isn't fun to roleplay a doctor anymore.
Why would anyone condense when they can add and enhance?
Not sure, but the cold truth is that the NGE is here and the old game is gone. No sense in rehashing old arguments.
Interesting points Athela. Allow me to comment on them. The Professions you named with the exception of Rangers and CH's are non combative professions and from a certain viewpoint can be considered more of a Roleplaying role, which I support of course. No from a roleplaying standpoint, you can still roleplay as a Doctor and the many other professions you named off. As a matter of fact, you can still play the majority of those professions, just in a condensed manner.
So I find it very easy to see how SOE plans to go forward from here.
As a matter of fact, I used to roleplay a doctor. I had an inventory full of woundpacks, stims, cure poison/cure disease/buffs, HEALING stuff that made me feel like a doc. I tried to help keep people alive, healthy and strong. Now, my inventory is filled with brains and organs and my toolbar is full of poisons. I was a TK Master, then a Master Swordsman to help in a fight as well. Now I stand around emitting noxious gas (in game only
). It just isn't fun to roleplay a doctor anymore.
Why would anyone condense when they can add and enhance?
Not sure, but the cold truth is that the NGE is here and the old game is gone. No sense in rehashing old arguments.
I still disagree with this point... I have seen this argument go back and forth with regards to reimplementing vs. a roll back. By adding stuff back into the game it just reinforces the fact that the NGE is not working as intended. If it were they would of never needed to add back in auto aim, or target lock for example. They stated that it would never make a comeback. You talked about playing by their rules.. Again this is not so easy... They code the game, we play it. We should have more input into changes (provided buisness models arent affect negatively by the choices). We see this in other games, where players say this would be cool, and the devs say, awesome id, but would be even cooler is if we take your idea and do this to it...
The current devs do NOT do this. They dont have a vision.... Their "vision" has changed numerous numerous times... Its changed not becuase of the playerbase, but because they are out of touch with what the players want. They are grasping for straws to bring players in, and by changing the core game every 6 months it chases away A. The players who stuck around B. The players the previous change brought in, that are now pissed the game has changed and C. Potential customers who follow the game, but are borderline on playing it, see it as non stable... In the end by not listening / taking negative feedback for improvements they are hurting themselves and the game.
The funny thing about doing a roll back, or even doing classic servers at this point, is I dont think many people would flock back.. Their (SOE/LEC) track record with SWG and how they treat their customers is horrible, and that is affecting their bottom line.
I would like to find the full quote / question that a player asked Julio at the San Diego summit. Julios partial response was "If we are here next year"...As a producer you dont say that to the public unless things are bleak and you are pretty sure you got the job at the next big company.
It all comes back to communication. They stopped doing this right around the CU. This was also the first time they posted a poll about a combat upgrade. The one the majority of players voted for was NOT the one they implemented. After this they stopped doing polls. They stopped asking players for feedback. You stated that we should make intelligent posts with bullet points and numbers... Go through the archives on SOE forums, you will find many many many posts like you described. They are either ignored, or a dev pops in and makes some one line statment and never comes back to it.
The other problem is I have seen numerous posts, again like you described, on what was WRONG with the game, and how to fix it. These were removed, trashed and the OP's warned about trolling / flaming.
They Silence the negative feedback, and then wonder why people leave the game. They changed the game for a new target audience, there is no denying this, Smedley stated it himself. They changed the game and the audience they got are the 12 year old gimme gimme now I dont want to work for it crowd.
They are screwed with this being these types will get bored after a few months.. They dont give the detailed feedback that the old school people did.
SOE changed the game for moeny reasons... They are now reaping the rewards....
Packed house at the first set of summits....
maybe 45 at the San Diego summit...
They are in trouble, and are to damn proud to admit they made a mistake.
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.