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Army Dismisses Gay Arabic Linguist
gnomexxx
Member Posts: 2,920
Army Dismisses Gay Arabic Linguist
Here is an outstanding soldier who could have had a very honorable career serving his country. Instead, he is persecuted by people who have no evidence against him except some anonymous emails. He never admitted to anything.
If anyone broke military law, the people asking him if he is gay did? It is, "don't ask, don't tell", right? Are they in any trouble for inquiring?
And I sat and listened to a guy on the radio yesterday talk about how there is no discrimination against gays in America. Bulls**t !!!
This kind of stuff makes me sick. When are we ever going to get over this and quit ruining peoples lives.
I sit here on these boards and read things people write about gays and how easy it must be for them to type those things out. Well, look at this kids picture in the linked story and think about his life now. He went through boot camp, worked to get his Arabic language specialist training, and was a decorated sergeant. He was working hard and doing what he was supposed to do because he wanted to protect his country. Now he gets to go home with nothing but a feeling of betrayal and shame.
Now look what his country did to thank him for his hard work.
Here is an outstanding soldier who could have had a very honorable career serving his country. Instead, he is persecuted by people who have no evidence against him except some anonymous emails. He never admitted to anything.
If anyone broke military law, the people asking him if he is gay did? It is, "don't ask, don't tell", right? Are they in any trouble for inquiring?
And I sat and listened to a guy on the radio yesterday talk about how there is no discrimination against gays in America. Bulls**t !!!
This kind of stuff makes me sick. When are we ever going to get over this and quit ruining peoples lives.
I sit here on these boards and read things people write about gays and how easy it must be for them to type those things out. Well, look at this kids picture in the linked story and think about his life now. He went through boot camp, worked to get his Arabic language specialist training, and was a decorated sergeant. He was working hard and doing what he was supposed to do because he wanted to protect his country. Now he gets to go home with nothing but a feeling of betrayal and shame.
Now look what his country did to thank him for his hard work.
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Comments
That's not the worst of it. Turns out that identifying this person as gay was the result of an 8 month investigation. That's a whole lot of time and energy, to find out the most juvinille of questions, "who is so and so sleeping with?!" This should not be the priority of our military.
As to listening to right-wing blowhards....you may want to reconsider doing that. These gasbags don't make a profit from proving their point, they make a profit from people listening. In other words, you might want to check out http://www.airamerica.com/stations.
Playing Devil’s advocate here, but he admittedly engaged in “relationships” while in the service. Just having a homosexual relationship while in the Armed forces is in violation of the law. It does not matter if his superiors asked him about it or not. He broke the law and his superiors found out about it. He agreed to these terms when he enlisted in the military.
The following is taken from the actual law 10 USC 654 .
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=10&sec=654
(b) Policy. - A member of the armed forces shall be separatedfrom the armed forces under regulations prescribed by the Secretaryof Defense if one or more of the following findings is made andapproved in accordance with procedures set forth in suchregulations:(1) That the member has engaged in, attempted to engage in, orsolicited another to engage in a homosexual act or acts unlessthere are further findings, made and approved in accordance withprocedures set forth in such regulations, that the member hasdemonstrated that -(A) such conduct is a departure from the member's usual andcustomary behavior;(B) such conduct, under all the circumstances, is unlikely torecur;(C) such conduct was not accomplished by use of force,coercion, or intimidation;(D) under the particular circumstances of the case, themember's continued presence in the armed forces is consistentwith the interests of the armed forces in proper discipline,good order, and morale; and(E) the member does not have a propensity or intent to engagein homosexual acts.(2) That the member has stated that he or she is a homosexualor bisexual, or words to that effect, unless there is a furtherfinding, made and approved in accordance with procedures setforth in the regulations, that the member has demonstrated thathe or she is not a person who engages in, attempts to engage in,has a propensity to engage in, or intends to engage in homosexualacts.Is it fair? It depends how you look at it. Serving in the military is not a right it is a privilege. He broke the rules and now he has to suffer the consequences.I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.
But there's no legitimate reason FOR having such a regulation.
Seriously, if the choice is between the security of our nation and gay-bashing, why should anyone pick gay-bashing?
I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.
"Speaking haygywaygy or some other gibberish with your mum doesn't make you foreign."
-baff
I think it's safe to assume that "Don't ask, don't tell" Also means "Don't have homosexual sex".
If you're not supposed to even talk about it, it would make no sense to be allowed to DO it.
"Because there are alot of closed minded individuals out there."
And why should we have to consider them and their close minded problem while in the process ruining hardworking peoples careers and opportunities to do what they feel is right by defending their freedom? I say if they can't keep their opinions to themselves and accept the fact that they live in a free country and be prepared to defend that freedom then they don't deserve to be in an all volunteer military. Nobody is making them serve.
I was in the military and I saw some sad pieces of dung who were allowed to stay in. And most of them were the close minded people you refer to. There were some people I knew that were gay and I promise you every single one of them worked hard and did their jobs well.
I say we clean house and get the close minded crap out. I have a feeling their are a lot less of them than you think there are. They're just a vocal minority that likes to get thier evangelical panties in a wad instead of accepting the fact that they live in a free society.
I think it's safe to assume that "Don't ask, don't tell" Also means "Don't have homosexual sex".
If you're not supposed to even talk about it, it would make no sense to be allowed to DO it.
Have you ever served in the military? Well I have. I was a Navy Corpsman. I'm not sure if you know what that is, so I'll explain it to you. Navy Corpsman are trained to be the medics to take care of the Navy and Marine Corps. In doing so I got to see a lot of something that was very telling about heterosexual behavior in the military. Namely, single mothers having children and not knowing who the father was. And I didn't see just a little bit of it, I saw lots of it.
There is RAMPANT multi-partner heterosexual sex going on in the military.
I also got the "pleasure" of treating all the wonderful STD's that straight people catch and spread around. It was like a movie of Outbreak to see someone bring an STD on base and watch the cases come into the clinic one by one as it spread around quicker and quicker. We could just about predict the increase in cases we would get each day as soon as the first case of an STD came in. Heterosexuals are so predictable.
I wouldn't put myself on that pedestal like you seem to be trying to do. The kid joined the military, not the priesthood. If you think you could go without sex then why don't you join the diocese. Otherwise, I wouldn't be so quick to judge.
believe it or not its good that they have such regulations. as for proof i will think of some later. but in all fairness he should have joined the navy instead lol
I think it's safe to assume that "Don't ask, don't tell" Also means "Don't have homosexual sex".
If you're not supposed to even talk about it, it would make no sense to be allowed to DO it.
Have you ever served in the military? Well I have. I was a Navy Corpsman. I'm not sure if you know what that is, so I'll explain it to you. Navy Corpsman are trained to be the medics to take care of the Navy and Marine Corps. In doing so I got to see a lot of something that was very telling about heterosexual behavior in the military. Namely, single mothers having children and not knowing who the father was. And I didn't see just a little bit of it, I saw lots of it.
There is RAMPANT multi-partner heterosexual sex going on in the military.
I also got the "pleasure" of treating all the wonderful STD's that straight people catch and spread around. It was like a movie of Outbreak to see someone bring an STD on base and watch the cases come into the clinic one by one as it spread around quicker and quicker. We could just about predict the increase in cases we would get each day as soon as the first case of an STD came in. Heterosexuals are so predictable.
I wouldn't put myself on that pedestal like you seem to be trying to do. The kid joined the military, not the priesthood. If you think you could go without sex then why don't you join the diocese. Otherwise, I wouldn't be so quick to judge.
Well good for you. Thank you for the story, but STDs have nothing to do with this.
The reality of the situation is that homosexuality is not OK in the military. The majority of military personnel (indeed, Americans in general) feel uncomfortable (to say the least) around homosexuals and homosexual sex. The fact that, in a combat unit, there are only men makes it worse. I"m not in the military but I can understand the reasoning behind this. I also think that this is one of the main reasons that women aren't allowed in combat. The article actually demonstrates my point.
Military investigators wrote that Copas "engaged in at least three homosexual relationships, and is dealing with at least two jealous lovers, either of whom could be the anonymous source providing this information."
Do you really want a love triangle in a combat situation? Come on now.
That said, I do agree with you on this case. I can't believe the Army would take action based on anonymous emails. This doesn't even really make sense. If all they have are anonymous emails, why not just deny it? Maybe I missed something.
I think it's safe to assume that "Don't ask, don't tell" Also means "Don't have homosexual sex".
If you're not supposed to even talk about it, it would make no sense to be allowed to DO it.
Have you ever served in the military? Well I have. I was a Navy Corpsman. I'm not sure if you know what that is, so I'll explain it to you. Navy Corpsman are trained to be the medics to take care of the Navy and Marine Corps. In doing so I got to see a lot of something that was very telling about heterosexual behavior in the military. Namely, single mothers having children and not knowing who the father was. And I didn't see just a little bit of it, I saw lots of it.
There is RAMPANT multi-partner heterosexual sex going on in the military.
I also got the "pleasure" of treating all the wonderful STD's that straight people catch and spread around. It was like a movie of Outbreak to see someone bring an STD on base and watch the cases come into the clinic one by one as it spread around quicker and quicker. We could just about predict the increase in cases we would get each day as soon as the first case of an STD came in. Heterosexuals are so predictable.
I wouldn't put myself on that pedestal like you seem to be trying to do. The kid joined the military, not the priesthood. If you think you could go without sex then why don't you join the diocese. Otherwise, I wouldn't be so quick to judge.
Well good for you. Thank you for the story, but STDs have nothing to do with this.
The reality of the situation is that homosexuality is not OK in the military. The majority of military personnel (indeed, Americans in general) feel uncomfortable (to say the least) around homosexuals and homosexual sex. The fact that, in a combat unit, there are only men makes it worse. I"m not in the military but I can understand the reasoning behind this. I also think that this is one of the main reasons that women aren't allowed in combat. The article actually demonstrates my point.
Military investigators wrote that Copas "engaged in at least three homosexual relationships, and is dealing with at least two jealous lovers, either of whom could be the anonymous source providing this information."
Do you really want a love triangle in a combat situation? Come on now.
That said, I do agree with you on this case. I can't believe the Army would take action based on anonymous emails. This doesn't even really make sense. If all they have are anonymous emails, why not just deny it? Maybe I missed something.
Yes, good for me, because I'm speaking from personal experience. I'm sorry you couldn't pick that out to be my point.
I'll tell you another one of my personal experiences. I knew quite a few gay people who were in the military. Marines and Navy, and they did their jobs VERY well. Better than or as good as the best of the straight people. And I saw no problems with them at all except for a few redneck dumbasses who were quickly put in their place by others around them. I reminded a few of them myself who I would take care of in the field first if the two of them were wounded. Sorry, but if the redneck and the gay guy are both wounded in the field and the gay guy is the better soldier, this Corpsman fixes him first. It's my triage.
I did see lots of problems with these jealous love triangles that you speak of with straight people however. On and off base. I saw these love triangles going on in the barracks. I saw married couples living off base where husbands were cheating on their wives. Yet they were allowed to stay active duty.
So how about them? They're excused of their behavior?
I searched the UCMJ and found nothing about adultery. I am not saying that it is not in there, but I could not find it. There is a specific article concerning sodomy, and by the very nature of a homosexual encounter it would violate this article.
I too was in the military (6 years), and I also witnessed many “love triangles”. These incidents did affect unit morale and in a couple of circumstances they were dealt with by the command.I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.
In the antiquity, the spartans were some of the most powerful military force, and gay relationships between them was encouraged, they would even put lovers in the same batallion since it was well known that soldiers were stronger when defending loved ones than the other armies with individuals that would try to defend themselves first.
It's not really in topic, but i just found it would matter somehow
The whole, "Don't ask, don't tell", thing is a joke. All it is, is just a PC charade, because in the interim, being a homosexual in the military, will get you booted if it's found out(as shown by this case). All it does is just cost money, and time.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
The organisation of Spartan society was certainly rather unusual. At birth, children were judged to be physically fit or unfit. The unfit ones were left to die in the wilderness. Boys and girls were separated at the age of seven. Boys were put into compulsory training that led directly to the military, from which they emerged in their late 20s. The state made marriage and children compulsory. All male Spartan citizens were in the military permanently. Agriculturally, the state subsisted on slave labor from two conquered tribes, the Helots and the Messenians. The Spartan secret police, the Krypteia, regularly dragged slaves from their beds in the night and murdered them if even a hint of rebellion was found. The Spartan state was always deathly afraid of a slave rebellion, that is why they were always so hesitant to commit a large military force to a foreign campaign. There was no money, no economy.
In military terms, they were certainly hard assed bastards, but they could never field an army big enough, for a long period of time, to do any serious conquering. Unlike the Athenians, they had no real navy. All they could do was put a hard core hoplite army into the field for a few months a year. In the Peleponnesian war, this was proven insufficient to defeat the Athenians.
In cultural and humanistic terms, they were severly deficient. Not a fun place to live.
The ironic thing is that Sparta was never really conquered; it's population gradually decreased until only a thousand or so true citizens were left.Their society caused their own downfall.
The organisation of Spartan society was certainly rather unusual. At birth, children were judged to be physically fit or unfit. The unfit ones were left to die in the wilderness. Boys and girls were separated at the age of seven. Boys were put into compulsory training that led directly to the military, from which they emerged in their late 20s. The state made marriage and children compulsory. All male Spartan citizens were in the military permanently. Agriculturally, the state subsisted on slave labor from two conquered tribes, the Helots and the Messenians. The Spartan secret police, the Krypteia, regularly dragged slaves from their beds in the night and murdered them if even a hint of rebellion was found. The Spartan state was always deathly afraid of a slave rebellion, that is why they were always so hesitant to commit a large military force to a foreign campaign. There was no money, no economy.
In military terms, they were certainly hard assed bastards, but they could never field an army big enough, for a long period of time, to do any serious conquering. Unlike the Athenians, they had no real navy. All they could do was put a hard core hoplite army into the field for a few months a year. In the Peleponnesian war, this was proven insufficient to defeat the Athenians.
In cultural and humanistic terms, they were severly deficient. Not a fun place to live.
The ironic thing is that Sparta was never really conquered; it's population gradually decreased until only a thousand or so true citizens were left.Their society caused their own downfall.
But they sure kept morale up.
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</OBAMA>
"Do you really want a love triangle in a combat situation? Come on now."
Do you really have such little faith in the US Armed forces that you think commanding officers aren't capible of handling love triangles when they occour? Relax!
Additionally, we need not worry about magically becoming Spartains just by emulating a portion of one policy. Don't forget that the other developed nations allow LGBT persons in their military, and they certainly have bigots of their own.
Deep Breath, people!