Originally posted by RollinDutch Originally posted by Urza123 Third, I do agree with you on one thing, new world war is comming soon. One that will be a lot bigger in size then the Great Norther War, since population of EVE has doubled since that time. Everything is in place it is only a matter of time before true major ego's will clash. We have to attibute much to the reasons of why it is going to happen to Devs because that is where they are leading this whole thing to. Giving us more and more tools to wage wars on massive scales.
Thats amusing. There will never be another war on the same scale as the GNW, or the SA/CA conflict. Ever. The closest will be RA/LV war thats been simmering for the last year or so.
There are more players and less reason for them to fight.
Well never say never.
As for will never be on such scale.....well when BoB/ASCN will clash together I am sure a lot of corps will jump on that band wagon. I can tell you one thing that day is comming and I think that it will be sooner then we think.
I agree Urza. Its impossible to make players quit who are strongly determined. Which is why I question the wisdom of this move, because they have set the criteria for victory in such absolute terms.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
As for will never be on such scale.....well when BoB/ASCN will clash together I am sure a lot of corps will jump on that band wagon. I can tell you one thing that day is comming and I think that it will be sooner then we think.
The problem with the Bob/ASCN war is the possibility of a third front appearing behind BoB at the same time. Yes it will be BoB/ASCN but there is always the double fronts both Alliances will HAVE to face in the end because of the threat their wars will create for other players. The only true problem I will forsee from this is the ultimate destruction of the t2 market because, as we all know only a few people/corps have access to enough of these BPO's to keep the market cheap enough. With the two most infuencial and most likely T2 BPO controlling Alliances at war, they will not sell their modules to third parties but save them opn themselves and in the end cause an inflation beyond scope. CCP will have to make a serious intervention at this point, it may cause a later saturation on the market, but hell. I'm already freaking that my BCU II's are going to double.
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
Originally posted by Rod_B Guilt by association has always been one of the standards in Eve. Your association with people determines your reputation and status more then do your own actions in this game. If anyone is strict in applying this principle it's BoB.
And I thought CELES were the masters of "associative warfare" *g*
On a more serious note: This whole matter got out of hand very badly, and I wonder if more should have been done by the community as whole to "soothe the waves" a bit. While we may get nice footage of huge (lagged?) battles, I am not so sure that such a "rift of hatred" among a large number of the active community is that good. I have no problem with BoB purging Goons from EVE (or the other way round, even if the chance of that happening like our sun going supernova in the next 2 days), but mingling RL issues that much with in game issues and winding up on that can't be good. These are the situations we can thank the long standing feuds and wars of RL. While some may credit EVE for such things being possible at all, I certainly see it as a sign that humans will never change. We will always carry the crap of our forefathers around and shoving it under our "sworn enemies" noses.
I understand that a lot (likely even most) of BoB and Goon members simply see it as a possibility to have fun and shoot stuff, but somehow this whole issue is really depressing if you think about it, tbh. It would be nice if we could forget this matter and just move on with playing a game, but I forsee a war of attrition that will pale the GNW.
------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
The "Great" Northern War wasn't all that spectacular.
Maybe I didnt see the other side, but from my angle it looked like alot of 4 hour long council meetings about nothing. Thankfulluy I didnt hang around to hear them.
As far as "personal" wars. I think they're supposed to be personal. You're supposed to want to fight for something, some cause, right?
So "driving people out the game" is neigh impossible unless you are griefing carebears, trying to get them to cancel their sub.
Eve is war. If you're not logging in every day expecting to make war either economically industrially or militarily, then what the f*ck you playin the game for???
By the way, I think that Remedial showed true brilliance by declaring war today on IRON, BoB, D2, RISE, and RAZOR.
And no, I'm not kidding...or am I?
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Beatnik59 By the way, I think that Remedial showed true brilliance by declaring war today on IRON, BoB, D2, RISE, and RAZOR. And no, I'm not kidding...or am I? On a side note, I just saw a goon (Tag <OhGOD>) Get blown un in Jita.... Sounds like the Goons may have more to worry about then just BOB and company....
If you look at the map, and switch to "ships destroyed last 24 hours," and "pods destroyed last 24 hours," you will see where the Goons are, and Jita and Kisogo seem to be areas of Goon activity.
I think the Goons knew that this next week was going to see a lot of heavy losses. Then again, I'm not sure that really matters to your average Goon. Let's just say that from what I can see about the Goons, the alliances are doing exactly what Remedial wants them to do.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Beatnik59 If you look at the map, and switch to "ships destroyed last 24 hours," and "pods destroyed last 24 hours," you will see where the Goons are, and Jita and Kisogo seem to be areas of Goon activity. I think the Goons knew that this next week was going to see a lot of heavy losses. Then again, I'm not sure that really matters to your average Goon. Let's just say that from what I can see about the Goons, the alliances are doing exactly what Remedial wants them to do.
I guess then I'd better get used to that then. At least in Jita they can get cheap frigates and also some form of protection from CONCORD from other players.
Bob kills lots of goonies in su......bob get bored gangs get toned back.....bob kill lots more goonies in su...2-3 months go by....goonies try again for conquerable space bob stops em......rinse repeat a bunch more times....year later goons get bored bein a multi mmo group start quitin enmasse. Just my opinion of what will end up happen. Thing is goons have cut them selves of from most the major groups that could help them so unless Bob gets involved in a major war theres no way goonies can escape syn. As far as losses go goons don't really care I think. But having no chance to go further in game will destruct em eventually...it'll just take awhile.
I think BOB needs to grow up. This was just an escuse to declare war on another 'big' corp. I'd rather them come out and say that they just feel like having a large scale war rather than blame it on something that should not have caused such drama.
No matter, I agree it was isolated insodent that the corp should have been informed of and taken care of itself, at least this is how a rational realist would have delt with it. However it's a game and people don't think twise about their actions in them.
Some higher ups wanted war and wanted to make their mark on the game's history, they found a scapegoat of a reason since they don't want fingers pointed at them for starting conflict just for the sake of a war, and here they've got something one can easly twist to feed their own purposes.
Kinda makes you think of war now adays. We just can't live with someone elses point of view, so we gotta blow them up
BENIFACTORS: 1) The good news goes to those crafters not in direct alliance with any of the sides. The more things go boom, the more people have to buy. And people don't go to war with cheap ships or equipment, they buy the best of the best. Though most of these corps will have their own crafters, something so large will reach out to everyone
2) With all these organizations at eachother's throats, the renigade pirates might just be benofiting. With the corps more worried about killing the other corp, the pirates are less of a target and can sit back, let the corps duke it out, and sweep in to pick off the rest and get the spoils.
Galactic War at it's finest is springing to life, subscribe now and watch the carnage!
Originally posted by Beatnik59 To make a long story short, a BOB member put a link to a certain forum signature on either the SA or the GoonFleet forums that many took offence to concerning a deceased player. BoB thinks that it was a sick gesture, so they got pissed and declared war. They are mad, and they are saying that they want to erradicate GoonFleet for the sake of the community. GoonFleet argues that the forum sig was about four months old, and an isolated case that should have never been brought to the official forums in this manner. They argue that it is disgusting BoB would make such a public spectacle out of this just as a pretext for war. The Goons are saying that this is stirring up the "honet's nest" like nothing else before or since. That's the basics of it, but the locked threads can go into more detail. I can't say that either side is blameless, but all I know is that its gone waaaayyyy beyond civil. Its personal.
Im in Goonswarm we just wardecked BoB they didnt wardeck us
Im in Goonswarm we just wardecked BoB they didnt wardeck us
Way to take it to 'em Goons...Goodbye.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Sadly its a game of numbers anymore. BoB showed that with their lag war in EC. Goonswarm has the numbers to do alone what BoB and ASCN did in EC so I don't see any damage being inflicted on them. The only way to beat an alliance of any size now is from within. You can't beat lag.
BoB has the capacity to win, proof is in the pudding. Their past exploits and engagements have left them the victor in almost all cases. Honestly I can think of only one time they did not accomplish their goal.
D2 (formerly G) have the capacity and allies needed to win. In the past in the north I have called this group of pilots friend and enemy. They are a tough nut to crack, even when you attack their surrogate region.
What do these two alliances have in common? A proven histroy of prevailing through full scale engagements.
Goons IMO do not have the history or resolve to outlast this war. And as far as I know goons have lost to D2+allies twice already now. IMO it looks like goons just want to go out with a bang, and are tired of the game.
Originally posted by squeee BoB has the capacity to win, proof is in the pudding. Their past exploits and engagements have left them the victor in almost all cases. Honestly I can think of only one time they did not accomplish their goal.
D2 (formerly G) have the capacity and allies needed to win. In the past in the north I have called this group of pilots friend and enemy. They are a tough nut to crack, even when you attack their surrogate region.
What do these two alliances have in common? A proven histroy of prevailing through full scale engagements.
Goons IMO do not have the history or resolve to outlast this war. And as far as I know goons have lost to D2+allies twice already now. IMO it looks like goons just want to go out with a bang, and are tired of the game.
I'd agree with you but this is looking less and less like a traditional war. Fighting in Empire space where no big capital ships can go, able to hide in stations... Heck they may even be using T1 Frigs to save isk. This will either be very quick or very drawn out.
You know I'm kinda relieved to not be involved in a huge war for once. Seems the only one I missed out on was the CA SA war. Suppose 6 months of being in F-E will do that to ya.
Not sure if goon swarm has their own kb and my old like to d2 killboard doesnt work anymore. As always dont trust anyone to post all their losses, but be 95% sure they will post all their kills.
Comments
There are more players and less reason for them to fight.
Well never say never.
As for will never be on such scale.....well when BoB/ASCN will clash together I am sure a lot of corps will jump on that band wagon. I can tell you one thing that day is comming and I think that it will be sooner then we think.
I agree Urza. Its impossible to make players quit who are strongly determined. Which is why I question the wisdom of this move, because they have set the criteria for victory in such absolute terms.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
And I thought CELES were the masters of "associative warfare" *g*
On a more serious note: This whole matter got out of hand very badly, and I wonder if more should have been done by the community as whole to "soothe the waves" a bit. While we may get nice footage of huge (lagged?) battles, I am not so sure that such a "rift of hatred" among a large number of the active community is that good. I have no problem with BoB purging Goons from EVE (or the other way round, even if the chance of that happening like our sun going supernova in the next 2 days), but mingling RL issues that much with in game issues and winding up on that can't be good. These are the situations we can thank the long standing feuds and wars of RL. While some may credit EVE for such things being possible at all, I certainly see it as a sign that humans will never change. We will always carry the crap of our forefathers around and shoving it under our "sworn enemies" noses.
I understand that a lot (likely even most) of BoB and Goon members simply see it as a possibility to have fun and shoot stuff, but somehow this whole issue is really depressing if you think about it, tbh. It would be nice if we could forget this matter and just move on with playing a game, but I forsee a war of attrition that will pale the GNW.
------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
As far as I can tell BoB doesn't HAVE any competition, it doesn't have any rivals, just people on their schitlist.
But who knows maybe GS can give em a run for their money. :-D
Ah this is why I love eve. The backstabbing, the forum drama, its beautiful.
Maybe I didnt see the other side, but from my angle it looked like alot of 4 hour long council meetings about nothing. Thankfulluy I didnt hang around to hear them.
As far as "personal" wars. I think they're supposed to be personal. You're supposed to want to fight for something, some cause, right?
So "driving people out the game" is neigh impossible unless you are griefing carebears, trying to get them to cancel their sub.
Eve is war. If you're not logging in every day expecting to make war
either economically industrially or militarily, then what the f*ck you
playin the game for???
By the way, I think that Remedial showed true brilliance by declaring war today on IRON, BoB, D2, RISE, and RAZOR.
And no, I'm not kidding...or am I?
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
If you look at the map, and switch to "ships destroyed last 24 hours," and "pods destroyed last 24 hours," you will see where the Goons are, and Jita and Kisogo seem to be areas of Goon activity.
I think the Goons knew that this next week was going to see a lot of heavy losses. Then again, I'm not sure that really matters to your average Goon. Let's just say that from what I can see about the Goons, the alliances are doing exactly what Remedial wants them to do.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Bob kills lots of goonies in su......bob get bored gangs get toned back.....bob kill lots more goonies in su...2-3 months go by....goonies try again for conquerable space bob stops em......rinse repeat a bunch more times....year later goons get bored bein a multi mmo group start quitin enmasse. Just my opinion of what will end up happen. Thing is goons have cut them selves of from most the major groups that could help them so unless Bob gets involved in a major war theres no way goonies can escape syn. As far as losses go goons don't really care I think. But having no chance to go further in game will destruct em eventually...it'll just take awhile.
I think BOB needs to grow up. This was just an escuse to declare war on another 'big' corp. I'd rather them come out and say that they just feel like having a large scale war rather than blame it on something that should not have caused such drama.
No matter, I agree it was isolated insodent that the corp should have been informed of and taken care of itself, at least this is how a rational realist would have delt with it. However it's a game and people don't think twise about their actions in them.
Some higher ups wanted war and wanted to make their mark on the game's history, they found a scapegoat of a reason since they don't want fingers pointed at them for starting conflict just for the sake of a war, and here they've got something one can easly twist to feed their own purposes.
Kinda makes you think of war now adays. We just can't live with someone elses point of view, so we gotta blow them up
BENIFACTORS:
1) The good news goes to those crafters not in direct alliance with any of the sides. The more things go boom, the more people have to buy. And people don't go to war with cheap ships or equipment, they buy the best of the best. Though most of these corps will have their own crafters, something so large will reach out to everyone
2) With all these organizations at eachother's throats, the renigade pirates might just be benofiting. With the corps more worried about killing the other corp, the pirates are less of a target and can sit back, let the corps duke it out, and sweep in to pick off the rest and get the spoils.
Galactic War at it's finest is springing to life, subscribe now and watch the carnage!
Top Ten Most Misused Words/Phrases in MMO Industry...
Way to take it to 'em Goons...Goodbye.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Sadly its a game of numbers anymore. BoB showed that with their lag war in EC. Goonswarm has the numbers to do alone what BoB and ASCN did in EC so I don't see any damage being inflicted on them. The only way to beat an alliance of any size now is from within. You can't beat lag.
Make a difference!
D2 (formerly G) have the capacity and allies needed to win. In the past in the north I have called this group of pilots friend and enemy. They are a tough nut to crack, even when you attack their surrogate region.
What do these two alliances have in common? A proven histroy of prevailing through full scale engagements.
Goons IMO do not have the history or resolve to outlast this war. And as far as I know goons have lost to D2+allies twice already now. IMO it looks like goons just want to go out with a bang, and are tired of the game.
Anyway if youd like to follow along with the war:
BOB Killboard
Goonfleet killboard
Not sure if goon swarm has their own kb and my old like to d2 killboard doesnt work anymore. As always dont trust anyone to post all their losses, but be 95% sure they will post all their kills.