Originally posted by Kyoruto I personally think its funny how they bassically say that faction spacific classes will ruin the game. Because that totally would of happened. Its pretty much they didn't want to try and balance anything at all.
faction specific classes ruining the game...
No. I disagree not with you kyoruto but with Blizard for being so (lame, unimaginative, uncreative,boring) that they have to give horde pallies and alliance shammys. I think thats what the OP is reffering to.
For most of DAOC's online Career I think they balanced classes very well....and each realm had COMPLETELY different classes. Why cant bliz do the same? Cause it has to cater to ANYONE?
Yeah, I know what you mean... I can't help be read what blizzard said and it just sounds like they don't want to put effort in the difference of the classes. Its like amazes me that they'd go and say such a thing.
Siehst du mich Erkennst du mich Ganz tief in meinem Herz ist noch ein Platz f?r dich Ich suche dich Ich sehne mich nach dem was ich geliebt hab doch ich find es nicht
The classes in WoW are considered balanced, because with talent allocation each class can more effectively compete with one another. That doesn't mean that each class can effectively compete by default.
For example, as a Priest I can compete better in combat by allocating points in Shadow talents, but at the detriment of my healing efficacy.
As for Tseric's comments, I'm not sure I agree. I'm of the opinion that a solution exists for any problem. Now, is the solution worth the effort? That's arguable. Imo, adding one class to each faction isn't that big of a deal.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Originally posted by IcoGames The classes in WoW are considered balanced, because with talent allocation each class can more effectively compete with one another. That doesn't mean that each class can effectively compete by default. For example, as a Priest I can compete better in combat by allocating points in Shadow talents, but at the detriment of my healing efficacy.
As for Tseric's comments, I'm not sure I agree. I'm of the opinion that a solution exists for any problem. Now, is the solution worth the effort? That's arguable. Imo, adding one class to each faction isn't that big of a deal.
In computer science there is a difference between NP Hard and NP complete problems. NP complete are problem we can prove take an assload of time, NP Hard are problems the we think take NP Complete amounr of time but can neither prove they take less nor prove they always take the same amount as NP complete. We only know that they are solvable in NP Complete time and do not take anymore.
It may be true that all problems are solvable (not sure on that one), but just how much effort some problems truly take to solve is not exactly cut and dry. As of right now no one in the world or through out history has been able to prove exactly what the optimal time of an NP Hard solution may be. Of coruse this is mathematics and a confined set of things but I believe the example is somewhat useful when talking about just what may be possible.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by SoSikWitIt Rock-Paper-Scissors is BULL.
Everything should not be balanced. Everything should not be fair. I'm getting sick and tired of the whining the WoW community does simply because they can't be the best at every single aspect of the fricking game. Grow some. Life is not balanced. Perfect balance IS NOT FUN. Why do the Devs listen to this nonsense? WHY?!? Dear god Blizzard. I know one of the staples of a buisness is the phrase "the customer is always right", but that doesn't mean you have to bend over for the vocal minority (which is mostly composed of idiots and crybabies).
All that being said.
I support the cross faction classes.
I know, I'm a horrible person.
So your basicly saying I want an "I win" button or else the game is not fun...
Originally posted by Ackbar The pally vs shaman bs of the last 2 years is finally over.
Heh, you wish, now it will just be fear ward. 50% of the people who complained about shaman v pally will just complain about something else. The only reason that had any real impact is because shamans are actually genuinely and obviously inferior for raiding.
You will be hearing about no BE warrior or the completely imba orc stun resistance or whatever other stupidness those people want to complain about.
And all the people who complain about shamans in PvP will still do so.
Originally posted by shae I think the key idea above all else that is said there was BALANCE.... I am so BEYOND tired of hearing about balance, class A has to be balanced with class B, faction A has to be balanced with faction B, weapon and gear A has to be balanced with weapon and gear B.... OMG !!! Enough with the balancing already. Whethers it's WoW, EQ2 or SWG, the idea of damned balanced game will ruin every single innovative idea that will ever come down the turn pike in future games. Listen, I don't want a balanced character, I want a character that can grow and learn as I grow and learn, I want a class OR SKILLS SETS, that can do their purpose properly the way they are supposed to work. Let MY skill be the balancing point. Who in their right mind thinks that a Warrior should be balanced with a Priestess !!! WTF ARE THEY THINKING! Why should both factions be equal? Why can't one have an advantage in numbers and the other in power? Why can't one weapon be better then another at end game. Blah... I just don't get it. Personally, I see this as that one thing that will make or break so many future MMO's. And the worst part about it is that it's not the dev's forcing stupid freaking balance on us, it's the PLAYER BASE that keep moaning that their Wizzard in EQ2 isn't as strong as the Warlock... so they yell Balance!!!.
how about this for balance...
make every class however the heck you want to make it BUT, every class will have another class that can kick it's butt, hands-down.
my example being... class A toon has so-so gear (greens/blues), great player behind it. Class A is the killer class of class R. Class R has a so-so player with pretty good gear (blues/purps). the get into it 1v1, Class A walks away after a fairly easy win.
then, to caveat this, you always have a nemesis class that will hand your ass to you. if you don't like it, too damned bad. every guild will have multiple members of EVERY class. you will play a class because YOU LIKE IT, not because it's got the best min/max talents/gear.
edited to add: also, raid gear would only work in raid instances. pvp gear would work everywhere BUT raid instances. you have two character paper dolls with your two gears on them. this isn't the real world, you fit tons of stuff into a backpack/pouch that could never ever fit into it 'realistically'. so if this idea isn't "real" to you, pick apart the unrealism in the game FIRST, get that fixed, THEN take issue with this idea.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I believe having the offensive shaman class for horde and the defensive Paladin for Alliance only has caused a great imbalance n the game.
Each class in WoW is very unique from each other. Some mmo's don't have this uniqueness, they will have very similar traits with different class names which imo kinda sux.
To save the uniqueness of the classes and offer a balance to the game these classes need to be made available to both factions.
People can say what they want about the dev team not putting any effort in it but you show me a dev team that can balance the factions when one faction has a dps class and the other faction has a buff bot class.
Originally posted by dannicus I believe having the offensive shaman class for horde and the defensive Paladin for Alliance only has caused a great imbalance n the game. Each class in WoW is very unique from each other. Some mmo's don't have this uniqueness, they will have very similar traits with different class names which imo kinda sux. To save the uniqueness of the classes and offer a balance to the game these classes need to be made available to both factions. People can say what they want about the dev team not putting any effort in it but you show me a dev team that can balance the factions when one faction has a dps class and the other faction has a buff bot class.
I take it that you believe in order to "balance" the two factions and still have different classes they would need to have two classes with the same role implemented in different ways? Or two classes which are essentially functionally the same? Or is it just impossible to balance at all unless you give all the classes to each faction?
In this case both classes are buff bots and the major difference in raids is how the buffs work. Basically totem buffs are mechanically inferior in large raids. I would say most people thought pally/shammy was fine in 5 mans. In raids the offense/defense of pally/shaman never really mattered.
Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by dannicus I believe having the offensive shaman class for horde and the defensive Paladin for Alliance only has caused a great imbalance n the game. Each class in WoW is very unique from each other. Some mmo's don't have this uniqueness, they will have very similar traits with different class names which imo kinda sux. To save the uniqueness of the classes and offer a balance to the game these classes need to be made available to both factions. People can say what they want about the dev team not putting any effort in it but you show me a dev team that can balance the factions when one faction has a dps class and the other faction has a buff bot class.
I take it that you believe in order to "balance" the two factions and still have different classes they would need to have two classes with the same role implemented in different ways? Or two classes which are essentially functionally the same? Or is it just impossible to balance at all unless you give all the classes to each faction?
In this case both classes are buff bots and the major difference in raids is how the buffs work. Basically totem buffs are mechanically inferior in large raids. I would say most people thought pally/shammy was fine in 5 mans. In raids the offense/defense of pally/shaman never really mattered.
in PvP Totems are superior, also shammys have the self rezz thing going on.. that's like an extra soul stone much more effective than DI.
Personally I think to save the uniqueness of the classes they need to be made available to both factions.
also self satisfaction for the Alliance to see gay paladins and even gayer NE look alikes (bloodelves) on the horde side all rolled up in one
Comments
faction specific classes ruining the game...
No. I disagree not with you kyoruto but with Blizard for being so (lame, unimaginative, uncreative,boring) that they have to give horde pallies and alliance shammys. I think thats what the OP is reffering to.
For most of DAOC's online Career I think they balanced classes very well....and each realm had COMPLETELY different classes. Why cant bliz do the same? Cause it has to cater to ANYONE?
Yeah, I know what you mean... I can't help be read what blizzard said and it just sounds like they don't want to put effort in the difference of the classes. Its like amazes me that they'd go and say such a thing.
Siehst du mich
Erkennst du mich
Ganz tief in meinem Herz
ist noch ein Platz f?r dich
Ich suche dich
Ich sehne mich
nach dem was ich geliebt hab
doch ich find es nicht
The classes in WoW are considered balanced, because with talent allocation each class can more effectively compete with one another. That doesn't mean that each class can effectively compete by default.
For example, as a Priest I can compete better in combat by allocating points in Shadow talents, but at the detriment of my healing efficacy.
As for Tseric's comments, I'm not sure I agree. I'm of the opinion that a solution exists for any problem. Now, is the solution worth the effort? That's arguable. Imo, adding one class to each faction isn't that big of a deal.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
It may be true that all problems are solvable (not sure on that one), but just how much effort some problems truly take to solve is not exactly cut and dry. As of right now no one in the world or through out history has been able to prove exactly what the optimal time of an NP Hard solution may be. Of coruse this is mathematics and a confined set of things but I believe the example is somewhat useful when talking about just what may be possible.
Uh. Read that post again champ.
----ITS A TRAP!!!----
You will be hearing about no BE warrior or the completely imba orc stun resistance or whatever other stupidness those people want to complain about.
And all the people who complain about shamans in PvP will still do so.
make every class however the heck you want to make it BUT, every class will have another class that can kick it's butt, hands-down.
my example being... class A toon has so-so gear (greens/blues), great player behind it. Class A is the killer class of class R. Class R has a so-so player with pretty good gear (blues/purps). the get into it 1v1, Class A walks away after a fairly easy win.
then, to caveat this, you always have a nemesis class that will hand your ass to you. if you don't like it, too damned bad. every guild will have multiple members of EVERY class. you will play a class because YOU LIKE IT, not because it's got the best min/max talents/gear.
edited to add: also, raid gear would only work in raid instances. pvp gear would work everywhere BUT raid instances. you have two character paper dolls with your two gears on them. this isn't the real world, you fit tons of stuff into a backpack/pouch that could never ever fit into it 'realistically'. so if this idea isn't "real" to you, pick apart the unrealism in the game FIRST, get that fixed, THEN take issue with this idea.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I believe having the offensive shaman class for horde and the defensive Paladin for Alliance only has caused a great imbalance n the game.
Each class in WoW is very unique from each other. Some mmo's don't have this uniqueness, they will have very similar traits with different class names which imo kinda sux.
To save the uniqueness of the classes and offer a balance to the game these classes need to be made available to both factions.
People can say what they want about the dev team not putting any effort in it but you show me a dev team that can balance the factions when one faction has a dps class and the other faction has a buff bot class.
In this case both classes are buff bots and the major difference in raids is how the buffs work. Basically totem buffs are mechanically inferior in large raids. I would say most people thought pally/shammy was fine in 5 mans. In raids the offense/defense of pally/shaman never really mattered.
In this case both classes are buff bots and the major difference in raids is how the buffs work. Basically totem buffs are mechanically inferior in large raids. I would say most people thought pally/shammy was fine in 5 mans. In raids the offense/defense of pally/shaman never really mattered.
in PvP Totems are superior, also shammys have the self rezz thing going on.. that's like an extra soul stone much more effective than DI.
Personally I think to save the uniqueness of the classes they need to be made available to both factions.
also self satisfaction for the Alliance to see gay paladins and even gayer NE look alikes (bloodelves) on the horde side all rolled up in one