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Does the Grind Go Away?
bonobotheory
Member UncommonPosts: 1,007
in Ryzom
I'm currently playing the trial, and thinking of upgrading to full access. I've created two characters so far, just to see how different I could make them, and going through the harvesting mini-grinds with both of them has made me wonder about the full game. There are quests where I had to get a certain number of a specific material, which involved harvesting for hours and hoping I got lucky enough time. It was dull and it was painful, especially compared to the rest of the gameplay, which I found fun and entertaining.
I see a stanza available that will let me prospect for clothing items only, and I assume there are available stanzas for all material types. Does this cut down on that hopeless feeling I get whenever I equip my pick? Does the lack of quests on the mainland make this a moot point? Is it possible to just purchase what I need, or are there some rare materials that nobody will part with for any price? In other words, does this ever end? Or will I always have to harvest eleventy billion dingdong nuggets just to find those five joojoo berries I really wanted?
I have to say, this is the only part of the game I don't like so far (okay, the mini-map sucks too, but it's a minor issue). Even the crafting grind is mild compared to this.
Comments
Sure, there are stanzas that will make you find exactly what you are looking for. And you'll soon find out where to search for certain mats, so the feeling of random digging will eventually go away. The crafter that doesn't dig will have to work really hard because mats are rather expensive and usually low quality.
It´ll all get a bit better, but on the "downside", actuall I think it is a big and intriqueing plus, some supreme Materials will only be found under specific conditions in specific places. The Primeroots for example.
This will make prospecting at once more interesting but more time consuming too, as sometimes you´ll have to wait for the Sun to come up, or rain to start falling, or even a specific season, to find what you need.
I think it´s one of the most sophisticated prospecting systems ever devised in an MMORPG.
CU
MaDSaM
Do you dare to adapt?
You can't craft everything yourself, even if you are a crafter. So you're going to have to buy or trade for what you need to some extent no matter what. If you don't like harvesting, then don't do it. I would say this though -- I'd do all the harvesting quests on newbie island. They are a tutorial... meant to teach rather than be fun. But they will teach you the basics of harvesting, so if you ever do decide to pick it up again some day, you'll know what you need to get started.
As for the mainland... you can do quests if you want, but they are't required and they don't give you much reward other than faction points (if you are interested in those). So you won't have any reason to dig for things unless you want to (for example I dig for seeds and amber for my jewel crafting).
Digging definitely does get better. In the low 90s (desert forage) I can now reliably get 4 units per source, and often 5 (if I use gentle everything, desert specialization, and seed/amber specialization -- costs a lot of focus but I can get 5 per source). And since I have triple-source prospecting, I can get 3 sources per pull... one will fade before I get to it, but I can get to two... which means 10 units per prospecting "pull." If you're used to getting 1 source at a time and 1 unit per pull, yes, getting 15 of them feels like forever. I can get 15 in 2 pulls easily -- it would take 5 minutes (if that).
Eventually prospecting, harvesting, etc, becomes much more viable. If the activity is boring to you, I doubt it will ever be fun, but it won't keep taking an hour to collect 10 things. In an hour of prospecting in the right place I can get 300+ units of seed, for example.
C
If your doing the same thing over and over to gain skills and level then it's still grind.
Originally posted by Jhughesy
Originally posted by savingmay there was never a grind in the first place IMO. YOU get to choose whether or not you grind. Personally, fighting-crafting-harvesting, and the option to get to choose whichever you want to do is not a grind. There way too much to do on each skill to ever grind.
If your doing the same thing over and over to gain skills and level then it's still grind.
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I don't know if there are a definition of "grind" in MMOs, but I agree to some extent. I'd call doing the same mindless thing over and over to gain benefits in game a grind. Both Ryzom and EVE Online can be played like that, while WoW MUST be played like that.
You can definately play Ryzom, only using cats (XP doublers) killing plants and learning nothing until level 250, but a lot of the game has very little with levels to do. Finding a recipe, exploring (learning to avoid aggro is very useful), finding digspots, participating in events, etc.
Games like WoW are so very much more level dependant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_grinding
Who cares about the Wiki "definition" of "grind"? I mean really.
It's a stupid question that people keep asking. Everyone with "is there a grind is there a grind". That term means different things to different people.
If you're fixated on it and need to keep asking, then you probably should *not* play *any* game with progression.
Im so sick of this ridiculous argument. What do the people who call EVERY freaking variation on character progression a "grind" want? To rocket to max skill/level immediately? People say "its a grind if its not fun". But its not "fun" if you dont *want* it to be fun. Dont people get that?!
Some of the most fun Ive had in ANY MMO was just hanging out XPing with friends in EQ1. To the masses of malcontent net posters, thats one of the most egregious examples of a "grind" there is.
If you find needing to put time into a game in order to develop your character a "frustrating grind", then you shouldnt play RPGs.
This problem is a mental one with certain players. They decide for THEMSELVES that the "end game" IS the game and/or that they need max level to "win" and then they bitch about the time it takes. I leveled my mage to 60 in WoW just questing, soloing and casually grouping. It took a long time and it was always fun. I never felt like I was just mindlessly repeating things because I never just mindlessly repeated things. If I found myself getting bored, I would /gasp QUIT AND DO SOMETHING ELSE. If the whole world beat me to 60, I DIDNT CARE.
So the answer to the question is no, the "grind" doesnt go away. Saga is a traditional MMO in that it is about building your character. If the very idea of having to put time into character development makes you cringe, then Saga is not for you.
To me a "grind" in an mmorpg equates to "I'm doing this now so I can have fun later."
Like back when I played SWG if you wanted to master weaponsmith you had to make like 3000 blaster barrels (there was a faster way if you had just the right stuff but for the purpose of this post let's ignore that). That was definitely a grind. You just clicked and clicked and clicked. It was a drudgerous process.
Now when I went hunting with people on Dantooine killing anything and everything, or went Krayt hunting with a bunch of folks and I gained a bunch of Scout, Marksman etc skills in the process that was fun. I was progressing but it wasn't a "grind" at all.
If you feel obligated to be max level at everything you do, the grind will never go away. The game has been out 2 years and nobody has level capped thier toons. To get 250 in everything is time principal, impossible.
You will find things get easier and is domino's. My main is Forage 72 and getting 5 mats per node is very common. Finding basic mats is easy and using that I can stack a few hundred mats in no time. The exper is medium but doing that allows me to craft off 4 or 5 levels in a few minutes. I did this a few nights ago. Went and got 150 amber, 50 fiber and bark, got 4 forage levels. It took 3 hrs or so and it took a few minutes to make 15 amps, gaining 4 or 5 levels in Melee weaps craft. One came with the other.
I could have made ammo and then used that to get levels in ranged fight. That would have kept the cycle going. The whole process is 'the game'. If it seems grind, what is it when you cap out? When I played DAoC, I quit when I stopped leveling and was getting stuff I could get before with progress. When I capped. My toon stopped 'grinding' and became a farmer. I prefered the grinder.
The beauty of Ryzom, IMO, is that it doesn't have to be "doing this so I can have fun later" unless you let it.
Now, in SWG, a newbie crafter could only make crappy items - items nobody wanted, because master items were so much better. Even a newbie gun could still be made better by a master. But in Ryzom, as a jeweler, I can make level 80 items that are every bit as good as the level 80 items someone who is level 250 could make. Sure I can't make level 250 items, but what I can make, is as good as it can be... and thus it sells.
Therefore if I want to be a jeweler to sell items and equip people in my guild (like new members) I can do that, and no "grind" is required before it is possible. Since almost the day I hit the mainland and joined the Order of Dragonblades, I have been our guild's newbie jewel-maker. We give all newbies a set of level 50 "health" jewels (with +25 HP per jewel, which is the max embed you can put on a level 50 item). My character has been able to make these since she was level 47 in jewel-making or so. That means I can contribute high-quality items to my guild even at low level -- so I don't have to "grind" until I can make something useful... I already can.
Contrast this with SWG where, if I wanted to supply even newbie weapons for my guild, they'd probably want me to get master WS first. So I'd have to grind before I could actually "be" a weaponsmith, chef, etc. In Ryzom, on the other hand, I have "been" a jeweler since the beginning, and so there is no "grind" at all.
C