You want the hardest MMO ever? Asheron's call, year 2000, Darktide FFA PvP server. It was ridiculous. You want me to give you a description?
You make a brand new character. He spawns in the noobie training area. Instant death, you lose some of your stuff. A high level killed you right in the area where you spawned.
When you die in AC you lose youre items and expierience, and have to recover your corpse. In FFA server, people could kill you anywhere and loot youre corpse. It was absolute insanity. They could camp you at loading locations and try to kill you while youre loading. It makes WoW PvP look like a joke...which it is.
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Lineage 1, well only my opinion. Game has been out for several years and last I checked no one has hit lvl cap yet which is 99. A guy from Korea was the closest somewheres around 80.
HARDEST seems like quite the intriguing word for describing the gameplay of an MMO, in my opinion.
Being synonymous with both DIFFICULTY and ARDUOUSNESS the term might seem to express, what could be interpreted as, an underlying duality inherent to the genre. For in the characterisation as merely the physical attributes which the playing of of such a game might require, the two meanings seem to encompass a possible division between having the dexterity to succeed or the stamina to overcome - skill contra patience.
I'm still in the process of considering the further implications of how a player's capacity for skill and/or patience would ultimately affect gameplay so for now this is merely some conjecture on my part with regard to a curious observation.
Originally posted by Steelarm011 You make a brand new character. He spawns in the noobie training area. Instant death, you lose some of your stuff. A high level killed you right in the area where you spawned. When you die in AC you lose youre items and expierience, and have to recover your corpse. In FFA server, people could kill you anywhere and loot youre corpse. It was absolute insanity. They could camp you at loading locations and try to kill you while youre loading. It makes WoW PvP look like a joke...which it is.
You're calling WoW PvP a joke??? Re-read your description of AC PvP...and even you've got to see which one sounds MORE like a joke.
You SPAWN as a new player and get killed immediately...and you're trying to tell me this is fun? THAT my friend IS a joke! (Oh, and BTW, getting killed on spawning doesn't make a game hard, it makes it pointless garbage!)
Originally posted by Qworg HARDEST seems like quite the intriguing word for describing the gameplay of an MMO, in my opinion.
Being synonymous with both DIFFICULTY and ARDUOUSNESS the term might seem to express, what could be interpreted as, an underlying duality inherent to the genre. For in the characterisation as merely the physical attributes which the playing of of such a game might require, the two meanings seem to encompass a possible division between having the dexterity to succeed or the stamina to overcome - skill contra patience.
I'm still in the process of considering the further implications of how a player's capacity for skill and/or patience would ultimately affect gameplay so for now this is merely some conjecture on my part with regard to a curious observation.
You win.
I think this is really the miscommunication had on the boards. Skill vs. patience is a good way to put it. It's like playing roulette and saying that betting $10,000 is harder than betting $10. It may be harder to decide to invest that large amount, but it did nothing to make the actual game any harder...it's still a fairly simple game.
I played a game called Tibia for about 5 years and it was by far the hardest game to level on... and the death penality was crazy... if you died at higher levels you could sometimes loose weeks of exp/training.
Originally posted by Steelarm011 You make a brand new character. He spawns in the noobie training area. Instant death, you lose some of your stuff. A high level killed you right in the area where you spawned. When you die in AC you lose youre items and expierience, and have to recover your corpse. In FFA server, people could kill you anywhere and loot youre corpse. It was absolute insanity. They could camp you at loading locations and try to kill you while youre loading. It makes WoW PvP look like a joke...which it is.
You're calling WoW PvP a joke??? Re-read your description of AC PvP...and even you've got to see which one sounds MORE like a joke.
You SPAWN as a new player and get killed immediately...and you're trying to tell me this is fun? THAT my friend IS a joke! (Oh, and BTW, getting killed on spawning doesn't make a game hard, it makes it pointless garbage!)
This didnt happen all the time. Im giving you an example of what could happen on there. The point of the matter is, is that AC Darktide server is the hardest thing out there. Very hard to level, very hard to stay alive. And I stand to say that WoW PvP is a joke.
There is no death penalty in WoW. You PvP for hours and hours for what gratification? Honor points? Give me a break. I can fall alseep playing WoW "PvP". You die and you become a ghost....whopee. The "PvP" servers arent really full FFA PvP. Almost everyone I know who played AC Darktide loved it. It was classless, skillbased, and you could even dodge arrows and magic projectiles. Sure it was hard, but whats so bad about a challenge? The challenge is part of the fact of why it was SO FUN. What is the thrill of you killing someone in WoW all because you had better items becuase you grinded more or because youre able to dissapear as a rogue?
And then there was the thrill of looting someone else's corpse. Let me tell you, there is no feeling as looting someone else's corpse to find a rare item they ground hours for. And I know what youre going to say - "Well what about how that person that you killed felt?" Sure, you'll get upset that they may have lost that super sword. But you'll get over it. Its a game, not your life....I hope.
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Holofamer I assume you haven't played UO before, because if you had you would have known some equipment was VERY rare. For example, one piece of Phoenix armor goes for what, 20 million gp nowadays? Hell, even a good sword to go hunting with goes for a couple million. And those each take way more than a few days to replace. Sure, you could go out with generic equipment, but you could do the same in L2. And in both circumstances, you would only be partially effective in battle.
oh there we go again. you have a diffrent opinion so you "just never played the game". yes, SOME equipment was very rare. however you could still afford to lose most equipment. not the case in Lineage 2. losing just average, normal equipment could make you lose days of work. If you lose a very good endgame item in Lineage 2, chances are you will never see it again.
That's kind of lame. What if you go linkdead in the middle of a fight? Sounds pretty stupid to me.
You want the hardest MMO ever? Asheron's call, year 2000, Darktide FFA PvP server. It was ridiculous. You want me to give you a description? You make a brand new character. He spawns in the noobie training area. Instant death, you lose some of your stuff. A high level killed you right in the area where you spawned. When you die in AC you lose youre items and expierience, and have to recover your corpse. In FFA server, people could kill you anywhere and loot youre corpse. It was absolute insanity. They could camp you at loading locations and try to kill you while youre loading. It makes WoW PvP look like a joke...which it is.
And again, further proof why this game feature does not work. AC could only get 1 server like this to be populated enough to cover the costs of running that server. Not enough intrest from players to make more servers. Definatly not enough intrest from the market to make an entire game like this.
AC never had phenominal success in the year 2000. Even the oldie UO had more accounts in 2000, than the ultra new modern AC back in 2000.
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So far no one answered the above guy's point about what happens if one goes link dead, or even has a lag spike for a few seconds in the middle of battle. What then? It becomes a matter of who has enough real life money to pay for the most uber internet connection.
The hardest...I'd have to say any of the Lineage series... The two were by far pain in the ass.
About permadeath tho, I plaed a korean MMO called Shaiya and it's like a clone to WoW. Except you can make chars at different starting level. You begin with normal and once you level that to lvl50, you can then start to make a hard character, and then into Ultimate characters. The harder characters you make the longer the grind but more stat points. And I make a Ultimate character up lvl20ish after couple months of absolute grinding...and when I died...It was gone...PERMADEATH...that's when I of course quit the game...but again leveling was like taking a 5 minute walk outside...The way WoW felt to me.
But anyways...Lineage 2...Lineage 2....I loved the PvP and everything until I tried to enchant my +13 Duel Damascus to +16 and it broke...I just bashed the hell out of my PC, and completely went psycho...
That weapon was like 2years of my life...I just sold my ID and quit...
And I wonder how Lineage 1 players feel, cause I heard any weapon from +8-+10...if you break em man...man...I can't imagine...And highly enchanted lineage1 items cost shit load of $ in korea...
GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month? Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools? MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!
Lineage 1 (yes the original), its been out for years now (It was one of the first MMORPGs ever) and not even the Koreans have got near the level cap of 99, i think the highest so far is a Korean guy at 84 or somthing and it must take him months and months to gain even 1 level.
If you die it has harsh penalties, alot like Lineage 2 but you loose a hell of alot of exp, if you had worked for a month and a half to get 1 level and died and lost say 40% you would have just lost half a months work (probably more) and later on in the game it takes even longer to level than that (an insane amount of time tbh) and then you also have the item drop to consider on death, which again is a nightmare becasue you could drop an item that you farmed adena for 3 months to get.
I love the game though and always will .
Garrik
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"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
Originally posted by CleffyII The Fourth Coming. It took a guy 12 years to became a 6th Seraphith and level 600.
12 years? Has there even been a "massively multiplayer online roleplaying Game" in existance for that long? If so ...
...I bet the graphics "rawk".
I've played: UO, AO, Asheron's call 2, EvE, Lineage 2, WoW, EQ2, CoH, CoV, GW (gosh I'm a NERD!) and my vote for the hardest (in terms of grind, difficulty, risk of item/xp loss) would be LINEAGE 2.
Comments
You want the hardest MMO ever? Asheron's call, year 2000, Darktide FFA PvP server. It was ridiculous. You want me to give you a description?
You make a brand new character. He spawns in the noobie training area. Instant death, you lose some of your stuff. A high level killed you right in the area where you spawned.
When you die in AC you lose youre items and expierience, and have to recover your corpse. In FFA server, people could kill you anywhere and loot youre corpse. It was absolute insanity. They could camp you at loading locations and try to kill you while youre loading. It makes WoW PvP look like a joke...which it is.
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Lineage 1, well only my opinion. Game has been out for several years and last I checked no one has hit lvl cap yet which is 99. A guy from Korea was the closest somewheres around 80.
Waiting on Guild Wars 2
Being synonymous with both DIFFICULTY and ARDUOUSNESS the term might seem to express, what could be interpreted as, an underlying duality inherent to the genre. For in the characterisation as merely the physical attributes which the playing of of such a game might require, the two meanings seem to encompass a possible division between having the dexterity to succeed or the stamina to overcome - skill contra patience.
I'm still in the process of considering the further implications of how a player's capacity for skill and/or patience would ultimately affect gameplay so for now this is merely some conjecture on my part with regard to a curious observation.
You're calling WoW PvP a joke??? Re-read your description of AC PvP...and even you've got to see which one sounds MORE like a joke.
You SPAWN as a new player and get killed immediately...and you're trying to tell me this is fun? THAT my friend IS a joke! (Oh, and BTW, getting killed on spawning doesn't make a game hard, it makes it pointless garbage!)
I think this is really the miscommunication had on the boards. Skill vs. patience is a good way to put it. It's like playing roulette and saying that betting $10,000 is harder than betting $10. It may be harder to decide to invest that large amount, but it did nothing to make the actual game any harder...it's still a fairly simple game.
You're calling WoW PvP a joke??? Re-read your description of AC PvP...and even you've got to see which one sounds MORE like a joke.
You SPAWN as a new player and get killed immediately...and you're trying to tell me this is fun? THAT my friend IS a joke! (Oh, and BTW, getting killed on spawning doesn't make a game hard, it makes it pointless garbage!)
This didnt happen all the time. Im giving you an example of what could happen on there. The point of the matter is, is that AC Darktide server is the hardest thing out there. Very hard to level, very hard to stay alive. And I stand to say that WoW PvP is a joke.
There is no death penalty in WoW. You PvP for hours and hours for what gratification? Honor points? Give me a break. I can fall alseep playing WoW "PvP". You die and you become a ghost....whopee. The "PvP" servers arent really full FFA PvP. Almost everyone I know who played AC Darktide loved it. It was classless, skillbased, and you could even dodge arrows and magic projectiles. Sure it was hard, but whats so bad about a challenge? The challenge is part of the fact of why it was SO FUN. What is the thrill of you killing someone in WoW all because you had better items becuase you grinded more or because youre able to dissapear as a rogue?
And then there was the thrill of looting someone else's corpse. Let me tell you, there is no feeling as looting someone else's corpse to find a rare item they ground hours for. And I know what youre going to say - "Well what about how that person that you killed felt?" Sure, you'll get upset that they may have lost that super sword. But you'll get over it. Its a game, not your life....I hope.
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
That's kind of lame. What if you go linkdead in the middle of a fight? Sounds pretty stupid to me.
-----------------------
</OBAMA>
And again, further proof why this game feature does not work.
AC could only get 1 server like this to be populated enough to cover the costs of running that server. Not enough intrest from players to make more servers. Definatly not enough intrest from the market to make an entire game like this.
AC never had phenominal success in the year 2000. Even the oldie UO had more accounts in 2000, than the ultra new modern AC back in 2000.
---------------
So far no one answered the above guy's point about what happens if one goes link dead, or even has a lag spike for a few seconds in the middle of battle. What then? It becomes a matter of who has enough real life money to pay for the most uber internet connection.
It's a new players nightmare at first, but can be very enjoyable as you learn and play more.
The hardest...I'd have to say any of the Lineage series... The two were by far pain in the ass.
About permadeath tho, I plaed a korean MMO called Shaiya and it's like a clone to WoW. Except you can make chars at different starting level. You begin with normal and once you level that to lvl50, you can then start to make a hard character, and then into Ultimate characters. The harder characters you make the longer the grind but more stat points. And I make a Ultimate character up lvl20ish after couple months of absolute grinding...and when I died...It was gone...PERMADEATH...that's when I of course quit the game...but again leveling was like taking a 5 minute walk outside...The way WoW felt to me.
But anyways...Lineage 2...Lineage 2....I loved the PvP and everything until I tried to enchant my +13 Duel Damascus to +16 and it broke...I just bashed the hell out of my PC, and completely went psycho...
That weapon was like 2years of my life...I just sold my ID and quit...
And I wonder how Lineage 1 players feel, cause I heard any weapon from +8-+10...if you break em man...man...I can't imagine...And highly enchanted lineage1 items cost shit load of $ in korea...
GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month?
Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools?
MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!
Lineage 1 (yes the original), its been out for years now (It was one of the first MMORPGs ever) and not even the Koreans have got near the level cap of 99, i think the highest so far is a Korean guy at 84 or somthing and it must take him months and months to gain even 1 level.
If you die it has harsh penalties, alot like Lineage 2 but you loose a hell of alot of exp, if you had worked for a month and a half to get 1 level and died and lost say 40% you would have just lost half a months work (probably more) and later on in the game it takes even longer to level than that (an insane amount of time tbh) and then you also have the item drop to consider on death, which again is a nightmare becasue you could drop an item that you farmed adena for 3 months to get.
I love the game though and always will
.
Garrik
________________________________
"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
12 years? Has there even been a "massively multiplayer online roleplaying Game" in existance for that long? If so ...
...I bet the graphics "rawk".
I've played: UO, AO, Asheron's call 2, EvE, Lineage 2, WoW, EQ2, CoH, CoV, GW (gosh I'm a NERD!) and my vote for the hardest (in terms of grind, difficulty, risk of item/xp loss) would be LINEAGE 2.