Originally posted by Ramonski7 With City of Heroes no one has to worry about ac or defense in the fantasy rpg sense. Correct me if I'm wrong but a lot more goes into creating functional armor rather than mere skins. This would be the only reason CoH would not have a problem with lag. If each and every outfit in CoH has stat bonuses and has to factor in adjustments for damage being dealt to the wearer then I stand corrected.
It's not a question of stat bonuses, etc. Lag is caused by the texture of the skin, not by its attributes. If you have 14 body slots, and 100 different pieces that can go on each slot you have an exponential number of skins to have to be able to render at any given moment. That causes havoc on your video card.
Sure it is, ever played Freedom Force? They use skins mapped over character models. The costumes themselves are little more than dressing for a base wire-frame. They in no way shape or form slow down any system by much. If you take a model they are using in CoH for a basic male wire-frame and it has 10-14 points where items can be layered on a character that serve no purpose other than looks. As long as they are using the same basic models for gloves, hats, coat, etc. The skins for those models can be altered endlessly for hundreds of different combinations. A simple one-piece costume can be mapped onto a basic male wire-frame and a basic paint program can alter that costume numerous times. Mind you this is assuming that this is happening AT character creation or some other out-of -game area before your character is loaded in the game. (i.e. a HQ zone where you character can change costumes)
Now if those 10-14 points of layering can be removed on the fly while in the game THEN there will be a problem with lag occuring. Because now your system is recalculating those items while you play dress-up 'in-game'. And each piece has to be calculated seperately.
I hope that clears up what I'm trying to say, but it basicly boils down to this:
If they allow cutomization while in the playzone on the fly, there will be heaps of lag. (ie removing clothing items)
If they only allow customization at character creation or some other screen where your character has to be loaded into the play area, there will be little lag. (ie you cannot take off any clothing items while in the playzone)
The latter is what I'm betting on as in a video I saw a guy who was demonstrating the game was explaining you could change outfits at your 'superhero HQ'.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Dude, i agree with you 100%. Customization has been shut out recently, although SWG did a GREAT job! I love being different, and personally, i think its what makes a game. Im lookin forward to EQ2 tho, it looks promising So many races and classes, one would think: "How could this go wrong?"
customization can go two ways... it can go the UO way where its a good thing because it gives you the ability to stand out and be unique, or it can go the Lineage 2 way and totally slow the hell out of things when you have 500+ players on one screen all trying to tear each other apart...
last thing you want in a siege where tactics mean everything is massive slow down just because somebody is tyring to show off their purple mohawk...
if i lose 1 more fps just because you want to show off your pink afro im gonna come down there and kick your ass...
What's the point of playing an RPG if you can't really play a role? Character customization is indeed a large part of playing all mmorpgs. Playing the role of your character (whether or not you actually roleplay) is really what makes you different from everyone else.
I know that when I play an mmorpg, I want to treat that world like the real world, I want to make a character that I know isn't going to be out there and look exactly the same as me. Playing with a game of clones is certainly no fun at all.
"Playing with a game of clones is certainly no fun at all."
Unless it's a game like Planet Side where it's an MMOFPS, but indeed well said.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather "Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
Not to be a smart alek, but I think the character creation in SWG was the best part of the game when I played in beta. I spent quite a lot of time on perfecting my "look" and I thought that was fun. It was lots of fun playing with all the options, and I didn't run into many people who looked much like me.
~*~ neschria Bludgeoner of Bunnies
... This is where I draw the line: __________________.
But back to the topic at hand, those serious about the RP aspect of a game would surely find a way to make their characters 'act' the part without worrying about looks, note the term ROLE play. Not COSplay. Anyway I understand that some poeple have a need for a deep character creation system to make up for their lack of imagination and to help them settle in their avatar's role. But is that being just a little too picky? Just how many even go so far as to actually use the other tools 'in-game' that help make their characters stand out? SWG has the option to provide a backstory for your character. So did UO. I can't recall if EVE had that option, but they did have a very detailed character creation system... Anyway, if more people would take the time to explore more 'in-game' options rather than concentrate on the superficial ones (how shallow does that sound), then more good players would be around to help correct the issue about a given game. (Instead of uselessly complaining about it on a 2nd party forum) As I recall a number of battles for those that yearned for uniqueness in UO came from the players themselves and that resulted in many changes with dye tubs, hair styling coupons and clothing options.
I understands the restraints of an online MMO, I work in IT myself and I agree that their will always be a finite number of options and clothes. But as an example one of the best simple character creation utilities I have seen in a while was Earth and Beyond, there you could change your skin tone, your hair style and colour, beards and moustaches, your eye colour, your clothes, your height, your weight and you had simple additions like facial tattoos, sunglasses etc there were certainly no lag issues on EB. How difficult would it be to translate this into other MMO's?
I have been a role player for nearly 20 years and certainly have no lack of imagination but what I am saying is a characters appearance needs to be as unique as conceivable. Character background is great and it happens to be appearing in more and more MMO's, I agree that game performance is the highest consideration but character avatars should be up there in the top ten. Being able to dye clothes and armour, even down to getting guild symbols and even hair dyes these are simple non performance related issues and should be considered by all would be MMO publishers.
Part of the role playing experience is what you bring to the role, your actions and personality, but their will always be situations where these things are not possible and that will be down to appearance to portray your character (first impressions and all that).
On an aside which will probaby get alot of peoples backs up (this is my own personal opinion) is the biggest lag problem I have encountered on MMO's I have played is mass PvP, if you want to take part in battles then stick with World War II or Unreal leave the RP games to RPers.
<i>The angel of death has been abroad throughout the land; you may almost hear the beating of his wings.</i>
"Look at the girl over there. She sits there all days long and still she has such expensive gears.. She must be flirting a lot because she can possibly not be that rich by just sitting around."
"Kyaa!! A man with bloodstains all over him is coming this way! I better run, he is a dangerous pk!"
"That must be a newbie. His gear can't be more than 10k and that hat he's wearing is really out of fashion."
"How come all guys with the DBZ-type hairstyles are annoying buggers *sigh*"
I care a LOT about looks in games. You can usually tell a lot about levels/rank/wealth (unless the person doesn't want to show it off). It can be useful at times, especially when looking for a special type of character to level with, or when you need special people in guild. And how many times have I not fallen in love with sprites......
Don't take my post too seriously, even tho it had some truth in it.
Comments
It's not a question of stat bonuses, etc. Lag is caused by the texture of the skin, not by its attributes. If you have 14 body slots, and 100 different pieces that can go on each slot you have an exponential number of skins to have to be able to render at any given moment. That causes havoc on your video card.
Sure it is, ever played Freedom Force? They use skins mapped over character models. The costumes themselves are little more than dressing for a base wire-frame. They in no way shape or form slow down any system by much. If you take a model they are using in CoH for a basic male wire-frame and it has 10-14 points where items can be layered on a character that serve no purpose other than looks. As long as they are using the same basic models for gloves, hats, coat, etc. The skins for those models can be altered endlessly for hundreds of different combinations. A simple one-piece costume can be mapped onto a basic male wire-frame and a basic paint program can alter that costume numerous times. Mind you this is assuming that this is happening AT character creation or some other out-of -game area before your character is loaded in the game. (i.e. a HQ zone where you character can change costumes)
Now if those 10-14 points of layering can be removed on the fly while in the game THEN there will be a problem with lag occuring. Because now your system is recalculating those items while you play dress-up 'in-game'. And each piece has to be calculated seperately.
I hope that clears up what I'm trying to say, but it basicly boils down to this:
If they allow cutomization while in the playzone on the fly, there will be heaps of lag. (ie removing clothing items)
If they only allow customization at character creation or some other screen where your character has to be loaded into the play area, there will be little lag. (ie you cannot take off any clothing items while in the playzone)
The latter is what I'm betting on as in a video I saw a guy who was demonstrating the game was explaining you could change outfits at your 'superhero HQ'.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Dude, i agree with you 100%. Customization has been shut out recently, although SWG did a GREAT job! I love being different, and personally, i think its what makes a game. Im lookin forward to EQ2 tho, it looks promising
So many races and classes, one would think: "How could this go wrong?"
haha!
-Farseen-
Wish Beta Tester
Knight Online Beta Tester
- Farseen
Current Game: Panzar
customization can go two ways... it can go the UO way where its a good thing because it gives you the ability to stand out and be unique, or it can go the Lineage 2 way and totally slow the hell out of things when you have 500+ players on one screen all trying to tear each other apart...
last thing you want in a siege where tactics mean everything is massive slow down just because somebody is tyring to show off their purple mohawk...
if i lose 1 more fps just because you want to show off your pink afro im gonna come down there and kick your ass...
IMO, gameplay/FPS 1st, customization 2nd
--------------------------------------
What's the point of playing an RPG if you can't really play a role? Character customization is indeed a large part of playing all mmorpgs. Playing the role of your character (whether or not you actually roleplay) is really what makes you different from everyone else.
I know that when I play an mmorpg, I want to treat that world like the real world, I want to make a character that I know isn't going to be out there and look exactly the same as me. Playing with a game of clones is certainly no fun at all.
"Playing with a game of clones is certainly no fun at all."
Unless it's a game like Planet Side where it's an MMOFPS, but indeed well said.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
Not to be a smart alek, but I think the character creation in SWG was the best part of the game when I played in beta. I spent quite a lot of time on perfecting my "look" and I thought that was fun. It was lots of fun playing with all the options, and I didn't run into many people who looked much like me.
~*~
neschria
Bludgeoner of Bunnies
...
This is where I draw the line: __________________.
I understands the restraints of an online MMO, I work in IT myself and I agree that their will always be a finite number of options and clothes. But as an example one of the best simple character creation utilities I have seen in a while was Earth and Beyond, there you could change your skin tone, your hair style and colour, beards and moustaches, your eye colour, your clothes, your height, your weight and you had simple additions like facial tattoos, sunglasses etc there were certainly no lag issues on EB. How difficult would it be to translate this into other MMO's?
I have been a role player for nearly 20 years and certainly have no lack of imagination but what I am saying is a characters appearance needs to be as unique as conceivable. Character background is great and it happens to be appearing in more and more MMO's, I agree that game performance is the highest consideration but character avatars should be up there in the top ten. Being able to dye clothes and armour, even down to getting guild symbols and even hair dyes these are simple non performance related issues and should be considered by all would be MMO publishers.
Part of the role playing experience is what you bring to the role, your actions and personality, but their will always be situations where these things are not possible and that will be down to appearance to portray your character (first impressions and all that).
On an aside which will probaby get alot of peoples backs up (this is my own personal opinion) is the biggest lag problem I have encountered on MMO's I have played is mass PvP, if you want to take part in battles then stick with World War II or Unreal leave the RP games to RPers.
<i>The angel of death has been abroad throughout the land; you may almost hear the beating of his wings.</i>
House of Commons, 23 Feb. 1855
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The angel of death has been abroad throughout the land; you may almost hear the beating of his wings.
House of Commons, 23 Feb. 1855
"Look at the girl over there. She sits there all days long and still she has such expensive gears.. She must be flirting a lot because she can possibly not be that rich by just sitting around."
"Kyaa!! A man with bloodstains all over him is coming this way! I better run, he is a dangerous pk!"
"That must be a newbie. His gear can't be more than 10k and that hat he's wearing is really out of fashion."
"How come all guys with the DBZ-type hairstyles are annoying buggers *sigh*"
I care a LOT about looks in games. You can usually tell a lot about levels/rank/wealth (unless the person doesn't want to show it off). It can be useful at times, especially when looking for a special type of character to level with, or when you need special people in guild. And how many times have I not fallen in love with sprites......
Don't take my post too seriously, even tho it had some truth in it.