Originally posted by Lathial Originally posted by Fadeus Errrrr. Monthly pricing is a barrier? No the quality of your product is a barrier, the pricing is just a deterent.
LOL-
I almost laughed my coffee up all over the monitor. Thanks for the good laugh-
Lath
What's so funny about Fad's classic ones is he honestly doesn't realize he's being funny He's just being honest
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Lathial Originally posted by Fadeus Errrrr. Monthly pricing is a barrier? No the quality of your product is a barrier, the pricing is just a deterent.LOL- I almost laughed my coffee up all over the monitor. Thanks for the good laugh- LathWhat's so funny about Fad's classic ones is he honestly doesn't realize he's being funny He's just being honest
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Thankyou for degrading the level of discussion. Okay first just because some one likes a game it does not make them a "fanboi" it means the person likes the game. I think the game is okay but not great. Has serious issues and could be better but with each content upgrade it looks like serious progress has been made to address those issues. Let's look at your "comments" regarding the game. The first paragraph had some stetments which I can understand your feelings about and actually more or less agree with and they are issues that need to be resolved the second paragraph though is basicaly a bunch of conjecture and opinion not completly based on fact
"Oh, to add insult to injury, they added PvP to DnD Online when the magic, range and melee system aren't even balanced. AND they are adding the drow who didn't even exist in this campaign. Dude, get freaking life, my 8-bit nintendo has more qualities then this sh!tty game. There's no reason to play this game when you can play NWN or NWN 2 for free online play and BETTER DnD mechanics."
First, they have yet to add PvP nor have they even discussed how they are willing to impliment it. It may be Party vs. Party, it may be arena based play. The LAST thing that the people enjoying this game want is balancing as that goes counter to the desire of those enjoying and playing the game. If they implement a competition based game play (for example your party is playing against another party aiming for the same goal or working to counter your goal) this may be very interesting and entertaining. Simple "I killz u I rulz the skewl" would simply degrade the enjoyability of the game.
Second the drow do exist and play an important part in the world. So with regards to your complaints regarding maintaining cannon of the setting you are obviously ignorant of the world of Ebberon and the location in the game world Xen'drik. Frist, Drow are a parallel race to the elves created by the giants prior to their war with the Dragons. They destroyed their contenant of Xen'Drik shattering the land in an attempt to dispell the extra planar Quori during their invasion. Soon after they launched in to a war with their elvish and drow slave race and were about to use a similar magical device to destroy the elves when the draconic races intervened. The elvish races split the drow remaining in Xen'drik living in the jungles and the other elvish races took to the sea to find a new homeland. The drow were barely touched on more then a refferential paragraph about their history in the main sourcebook but they were expanded upon in the Xen'drik source book and further in the Races of Ebberon. This race has a distinct and different culture from that of the elves and offers a lot of gameplay oppertunities. Further to get one of these race you have to earn it via a series of quests, so it's not just handed to you.
In conclusion you insult this guy when all he said was a perfectly reasonable statement that though the quality in his opinion is supurb it is lacking content and features. You state that this person needs to get a life and that this is a shitty game. Simply put that makes you appear ignorant, beligerant, and hostile. In short completly undermining any validity there may have been in your statments. I'm not saying you need to like this game, there is a lot lacking in it I will not argue that fact but if you are going to comment on it try and speak from a position of knowledge not supposition and posturing.
I've played the Trial version of DDO and after a week of playing thought, "I would buy this game if it had no monthly fee (like Guild Wars)." I have been paying monthly fees since Everquest went live (03/99) so have no problem with the subscription-based model -- if the available content justifies it.
Imo, if they do go with the option for players to buy in-game items with real-world cash they should restrict it to certain servers much like Station Exchange servers in Everquest ][. I, for one, do not want to play with people that have more real-world $$$ than XP.
I beta tested this game and was very happy with most of it. I was one of the torch bearers when it came to posts about repeating quests.
they never really came out and said that it was going to be part of the game mechanics. That is, to repeat a quest until you can perfect it...
bleh.. and a few others were 'bleh" about it
so OK I could deal with that. Obviously they were'nt going to charge a 14.95 a month fee for the game. So, I became a torch bearer for the monthly fee.
appx. a week before open beta they announced there would be a 14.95 fee in one of the numerous "monthly fee" threads that I started.
couple this with the repeated quests..oh..and they made the warforged a complete nuisance to groups.. I never logged back into the beta.
if they charged 10 bux a month for the game.. id play. and i told them that in the thread in beta. I guess they thought they could make more money charging the same price as WoW and EQ2 with this shitty game design
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Originally posted by Elnator As long as I can still get the items I want the old fassioned way I'm all for them going Free to play with purchased items available If I can play free? I'm a happy camper. Let some other sucker pay them for this thing. I'll play for free without any complaint at all
It's not a PVP game so it wouldn't be unbalancing There's no player economy to ruin either. Win-Win. I play free... let the addicts blow their money however they wish. I'll play free thanks
Agreed. If DDO becomes free to play, I am getting it. I liked the beta and the free trial, but it is not an mmo that I think should have a subscription. It is too much like Guild Wars, perhaps with even less content and just as simplified as Guild Wars is. Why the $15 a month?
I don't hink DDO is a bad game at all, but relatively speaking, when compared to other typical mmorpgs, I don't think it's worth the money right now.
Ok, I should shove a sock in it right now, I just bought the game today. I hate myself sometimes, but I couldn't resist anymore.
The way to sell game items is to look at the business models of the games coming out of Asia. The game client is free and the access to the game is free. Where they make their money is through the sale of in-game items.
These games take an approach to it that I think is rather smart. Players can buy extra stuff that has little to no affect on the actual game play. Pets, global communication, special cloths (unique, cool look), super healing potions, and so on.
One of the most game affecting items that I have seen being sold is an experience bonus card. The experience bonus has a time limit (that apparently does not tick off while offline) and there are tiered versions. A few hours to a day or two... something like that.
EDIT: Another cool item that players can buy (in Silk Road Online) is an item that allows the player to reallocate the points in their job/class tree. Up to a limit of X ammount of points.
If Turbine took this direction with DDO then I think that would be perfectly fine, although the exp card idea is certainly questionable. All of the other items have virtually no real impact on the actual game, giving no real benefit to some players over others. They're fun to have, though, and people want them. So they pay small charges for them.
The pets, by the way, also have a time limit on them IIRC, but it's obviously longer than the exp cards.
With all this said, I have no faith in Turbine. I doubt that they'll do the right (or otherwise intelligent) thing.
I think this would be appropiate for DDO, Mysk. However, this payment model that is becoming more and more popular is a very bad idea when used like it is so often in competitve PvP mmos when the advantages that can be purchased effect gameplay, and create an uneven playing field.
For DDO, I don't see this as being a problem at all, and I could actually see a reason to purchase extras as you've described, Turbine would just have to try and create more of a roleplaying environment to the game.
As for the client, I had no trouble paying for the boxed game. I do question my sanity when I look at the monthly payment I make to Turbine, though. I love their game, but I only play it once, maybe twice a week, which is exactly fitting according to the amount of content in the game.
Originally posted by Darkikon Yeah, going through the same 6 or 7 quests day after day got old. Went back to EQ2. The one thing this game is nicely set up for is taking your old pen and paper D&D buddies and having your once a week gathering to play D&D online instead of the old fashioned way. works well for that, but this is not for hardcore or even semi-hardcore players.
I agree with the above; I do exactly that and I love the game. I also play a bit more than my PnP buddies do so I have multiple characters and understand the complaint about content. Hitting the same round of quests to get the same exact items everyone else has does make the game repetitive and leaves everyone looking the same.
However, it plays pretty true to D&D and is fun to play with my old buddies across the country and get that small party together to kick some monster but.
Why am I a "fanboi?" I don't play the game, I don't like how limited it is. I just think the core game is excellent. There just isn't enough to do, and what you can do gets boring so quickly. IMO the game is only 30 percent done. If they added more (a lot more) to the game I would surely p2p. I just don't agree with people saying the game is utter crap. It has a chance to be a great game, though I doubt it will. So just to clarify CaptainRPG, am I still a "fanboi?" If I am for this post I'll agree with it and move on.
Someone has to wonder, why is Guildwar free to play after buying the game and why is DDO a p2p game when it offers similar content and no pvp.... and i dont see the GW devs selling weapons and stuff for real money... Turbine just wanted to milk the D&D IP to death, and they thought they could do it with a monthly fee... i m glad players dont take this kind of crap anymore.
Have to agree with purchasing of "extras" in a PvP environment being bad for the game and causing an unfair advantage.
However having suffered through the ongoing repeating of DDO quests with increasing degrees of difficulty only to ruin the single 2K pp +1 longsword of neverending turd bane that was the reward for a high level long dungeon (after I passed on 16 +30 docents and innumerable masterworks items) to find you'll need another 2K platinum to repair it because you just hit a CR50 ooze by accident does make things a bit imbalanced. I spent more time broke and dead trying to keep up with the game. I try to play often but definitely don't have the time to divest from my RL to "farm" items and platinum... when the wife is agro'ed she has a +1000 PK. Balancing the loot drop with the repair and cost tables would help. In the mean time give me the opportunity to buy platinum or weapons!!!
Originally posted by naldric Someone has to wonder, why is Guildwar free to play after buying the game and why is DDO a p2p game when it offers similar content and no pvp.... and i dont see the GW devs selling weapons and stuff for real money... Turbine just wanted to milk the D&D IP to death, and they thought they could do it with a monthly fee... i m glad players dont take this kind of crap anymore.
I don't think the monthly fee was Turbine's call. I suspect that came from the producers (WOTC/Atari) Turbine is just the developer. They don't really get a say on the billing front folks.
I agree, the game doesn't merit a monthly fee, not by a LONG LONG shot... but, as in the case of SWG, lets put the blame where it belongs: Turbine I blame for developing a crappy game with insufficient features. WOTC and Atari I blame for charging a monthly fee on a game that doesn't warrant one.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Comments
LOL-
I almost laughed my coffee up all over the monitor. Thanks for the good laugh-
Lath
What's so funny about Fad's classic ones is he honestly doesn't realize he's being funny
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Thankyou for degrading the level of discussion. Okay first just because some one likes a game it does not make them a "fanboi" it means the person likes the game. I think the game is okay but not great. Has serious issues and could be better but with each content upgrade it looks like serious progress has been made to address those issues. Let's look at your "comments" regarding the game. The first paragraph had some stetments which I can understand your feelings about and actually more or less agree with and they are issues that need to be resolved the second paragraph though is basicaly a bunch of conjecture and opinion not completly based on fact
"Oh, to add insult to injury, they added PvP to DnD Online when the magic, range and melee system aren't even balanced. AND they are adding the drow who didn't even exist in this campaign. Dude, get freaking life, my 8-bit nintendo has more qualities then this sh!tty game. There's no reason to play this game when you can play NWN or NWN 2 for free online play and BETTER DnD mechanics."
First, they have yet to add PvP nor have they even discussed how they are willing to impliment it. It may be Party vs. Party, it may be arena based play. The LAST thing that the people enjoying this game want is balancing as that goes counter to the desire of those enjoying and playing the game. If they implement a competition based game play (for example your party is playing against another party aiming for the same goal or working to counter your goal) this may be very interesting and entertaining. Simple "I killz u I rulz the skewl" would simply degrade the enjoyability of the game.
Second the drow do exist and play an important part in the world. So with regards to your complaints regarding maintaining cannon of the setting you are obviously ignorant of the world of Ebberon and the location in the game world Xen'drik. Frist, Drow are a parallel race to the elves created by the giants prior to their war with the Dragons. They destroyed their contenant of Xen'Drik shattering the land in an attempt to dispell the extra planar Quori during their invasion. Soon after they launched in to a war with their elvish and drow slave race and were about to use a similar magical device to destroy the elves when the draconic races intervened. The elvish races split the drow remaining in Xen'drik living in the jungles and the other elvish races took to the sea to find a new homeland. The drow were barely touched on more then a refferential paragraph about their history in the main sourcebook but they were expanded upon in the Xen'drik source book and further in the Races of Ebberon. This race has a distinct and different culture from that of the elves and offers a lot of gameplay oppertunities. Further to get one of these race you have to earn it via a series of quests, so it's not just handed to you.
In conclusion you insult this guy when all he said was a perfectly reasonable statement that though the quality in his opinion is supurb it is lacking content and features. You state that this person needs to get a life and that this is a shitty game. Simply put that makes you appear ignorant, beligerant, and hostile. In short completly undermining any validity there may have been in your statments. I'm not saying you need to like this game, there is a lot lacking in it I will not argue that fact but if you are going to comment on it try and speak from a position of knowledge not supposition and posturing.
Commonperson
I've played the Trial version of DDO and after a week of playing thought, "I would buy this game if it had no monthly fee (like Guild Wars)." I have been paying monthly fees since Everquest went live (03/99) so have no problem with the subscription-based model -- if the available content justifies it.
Imo, if they do go with the option for players to buy in-game items with real-world cash they should restrict it to certain servers much like Station Exchange servers in Everquest ][. I, for one, do not want to play with people that have more real-world $$$ than XP.
I beta tested this game and was very happy with most of it. I was one of the torch bearers when it came to posts about repeating quests.
they never really came out and said that it was going to be part of the game mechanics. That is, to repeat a quest until you can perfect it...
bleh.. and a few others were 'bleh" about it
so OK I could deal with that. Obviously they were'nt going to charge a 14.95 a month fee for the game. So, I became a torch bearer for the monthly fee.
appx. a week before open beta they announced there would be a 14.95 fee in one of the numerous "monthly fee" threads that I started.
couple this with the repeated quests..oh..and they made the warforged a complete nuisance to groups.. I never logged back into the beta.
if they charged 10 bux a month for the game.. id play. and i told them that in the thread in beta. I guess they thought they could make more money charging the same price as WoW and EQ2 with this shitty game design
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Agreed. If DDO becomes free to play, I am getting it. I liked the beta and the free trial, but it is not an mmo that I think should have a subscription. It is too much like Guild Wars, perhaps with even less content and just as simplified as Guild Wars is. Why the $15 a month?
I don't hink DDO is a bad game at all, but relatively speaking, when compared to other typical mmorpgs, I don't think it's worth the money right now.
Ok, I should shove a sock in it right now, I just bought the game today. I hate myself sometimes, but I couldn't resist anymore.
The way to sell game items is to look at the business models of the games coming out of Asia. The game client is free and the access to the game is free. Where they make their money is through the sale of in-game items.
These games take an approach to it that I think is rather smart. Players can buy extra stuff that has little to no affect on the actual game play. Pets, global communication, special cloths (unique, cool look), super healing potions, and so on.
One of the most game affecting items that I have seen being sold is an experience bonus card. The experience bonus has a time limit (that apparently does not tick off while offline) and there are tiered versions. A few hours to a day or two... something like that.
EDIT: Another cool item that players can buy (in Silk Road Online) is an item that allows the player to reallocate the points in their job/class tree. Up to a limit of X ammount of points.
If Turbine took this direction with DDO then I think that would be perfectly fine, although the exp card idea is certainly questionable. All of the other items have virtually no real impact on the actual game, giving no real benefit to some players over others. They're fun to have, though, and people want them. So they pay small charges for them.
The pets, by the way, also have a time limit on them IIRC, but it's obviously longer than the exp cards.
With all this said, I have no faith in Turbine. I doubt that they'll do the right (or otherwise intelligent) thing.
~Mysk
I think this would be appropiate for DDO, Mysk. However, this payment model that is becoming more and more popular is a very bad idea when used like it is so often in competitve PvP mmos when the advantages that can be purchased effect gameplay, and create an uneven playing field.
For DDO, I don't see this as being a problem at all, and I could actually see a reason to purchase extras as you've described, Turbine would just have to try and create more of a roleplaying environment to the game.
As for the client, I had no trouble paying for the boxed game. I do question my sanity when I look at the monthly payment I make to Turbine, though. I love their game, but I only play it once, maybe twice a week, which is exactly fitting according to the amount of content in the game.
However, it plays pretty true to D&D and is fun to play with my old buddies across the country and get that small party together to kick some monster but.
Have to agree with purchasing of "extras" in a PvP environment being bad for the game and causing an unfair advantage.
However having suffered through the ongoing repeating of DDO quests with increasing degrees of difficulty only to ruin the single 2K pp +1 longsword of neverending turd bane that was the reward for a high level long dungeon (after I passed on 16 +30 docents and innumerable masterworks items) to find you'll need another 2K platinum to repair it because you just hit a CR50 ooze by accident does make things a bit imbalanced. I spent more time broke and dead trying to keep up with the game. I try to play often but definitely don't have the time to divest from my RL to "farm" items and platinum... when the wife is agro'ed she has a +1000 PK. Balancing the loot drop with the repair and cost tables would help. In the mean time give me the opportunity to buy platinum or weapons!!!
I agree, the game doesn't merit a monthly fee, not by a LONG LONG shot... but, as in the case of SWG, lets put the blame where it belongs: Turbine I blame for developing a crappy game with insufficient features. WOTC and Atari I blame for charging a monthly fee on a game that doesn't warrant one.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas