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Turbine's record with franchise property - implications for LotR?

AlalalaAlalala Member UncommonPosts: 314
in Lord of the Rings Online

Let's take a look at Turbine's record with franchise property: They took their own Asheron's Call (AC) franchise and made AC2, a complete failure design-wise as it relied too much on adding content in monthly updates.  I remember running the same quests over and over - blah.  They were also very slow to fix exploits that allowed PL'ing and griefing.

They got the D&D franchise and made DDO, a very average game also plagued by doing the same dungeons over and over, and initially, no solo play and no PvP.  Turbine choose to ignore solo play and PvP throughout development, alpha, and beta and only added solo play as subscriptions began to drop.  The choose to ignore compliants about lack of content as well.  Let's be honest,  DDO's marginal success -- relative to the franchise potential -- must be disappointing to WotC.  I'll bet they are having second thoughts about pairing up with Turbine.

So Turbine has failed every time on franchise MMOs - isn't fair to assume their problems are company-wide and will likely extend into LotR Online?  Remember, franchise alone cannot make a great game - SOE and SWG/NGE taught us that lesson.

Comments

  • xas_xas_ Member Posts: 31
    Imo this game will probably end up being an Everquest within Middle Earth. The reason is say this; because every single MMO on the market which is fantasy based, has the same structre, quests, raiding, grinding... and endgame.


    People think this game is going to be the savior of the genre and unfortunately i think its going to lack a new feel, its going to have similuar UI, skills, combat to all of the other games... with turbine behind the drivers seat i already have failure in the back of my mind, but regardless ill buy it and try it for the first month.

    anything to kill time intil a real groundbreaking game comes out- which is Warhammer.


  • No.6No.6 Member Posts: 12

    "They got the D&D franchise and made DDO, a very average game also plagued by doing the same dungeons over and over, and initially, no solo play and no PvP."

    Here's an odd concept for you:  not every game wants to be WoW.

    Now granted WoW is absurdly popular (and according to mmogcharts.com, over half its userbase is in the Pac rim) but really, unless your game is ready to BE WoW, it's marketing folly to try and be the things (PvP, raiding, fast soloing) that WoW is.

    So what *is* Dungeons and Dragons?  It's not about grinding, it's not about mega-raids, it's not about killing the other players, it's not about tradeskilling, and it's definitely not for playing by yourself.

    It's about a group of people adventuring.  So, that's what DDO is.  Adventures for parties of players. 

    Now as you pointed out not everyone wants this, so DDO did not become a 6 million user megahit.  It did become a goodly 100k hit.   More importantly, it actually IS D&D, not "WoW with D&D mobs."

    The point of all this is:  if you are hoping for someone to take the revered LOTR mythos and turn it into d00d this and n3wb-ganking and other such things people in MMOGs these days enjoy, I think you'll be very disappointed.   Those who have some remnant of respect for Professor Tolkien's work should be glad Turbine and not someone else is in charge of the MMOG bearing the LOTR name.

    Be seeing you.

  • Helsing78Helsing78 Member Posts: 25
    I have incredible respect for Tolkien's works, however, Turbine, a company which needs a dictionary to understand the term originality is the last company that should be given control of this product. As a matter of fact, there's some 4-year olds next door whom I would rather have handle it thant Turbine.

    And yeah, they're adding Raid content, so much for that "not-going-to-follow-every-other-mmo-trend" argument.
    I love Lord of the Rings, I was very excited when news first came out about Miidle-Earth Online, I was somewhat happy when I heard it was changing developers, I played DDO and watched a friend play the post-Turbine AC, I now wonder how many more properties Turbine can botch.


  • Wartorn[SC]Wartorn[SC] Member Posts: 97
    I realy do hope this game makes it. Like other posters i'm an LOTR fan and loved the whole concept of Tolkiens world. 

    I guess we will have to see what they will make out of it - the graphics are ok (not the best i've seen though). I hope they get most of it straight lore-wise and make it an more "alternative" MMO. I don't think they should focus on trying to be better than WoW or other MMO's - just get things straight in the Tolkien world and don't listen to what everybody wants 'included'...


  • shaeshae Member Posts: 2,509

    TBH when I first heard that Turbine was taking over the long winded project of Middle Earth Online I was pretty happy. The project had been handed over from one Dev Team to another for so long I was just greatful that it finally landed on a desk that would provide it a healthy stable environment.

    Unfortunately now I've lost alot of faith in Turbine being able to come up with something even remotely fitting this very precious IP.

    Many of the gameplay decision they've made have in my oppinion been complete folly and really don't think they have a good grasp on how grab the feeling of Middle Earth and make it adventure experience it should be.

    DDO has don't nothing but scare me even more, D&D was a huge IP that could have been gigantic, instead it's a pretty lame exucse of an MMO. Of course that's just my oppinion and I'm sure some people enjoy it but for me, it really did nothing for decrease my faith in Turbine even more.

    Who knows, maybe the team over there will surprise everyone and come out with an MMO to end all MMO's but as it stands now, I'm certainly not holding my breath.

    Important Information regarding Posting and You :)

  • Helsing78Helsing78 Member Posts: 25

    Originally posted by shae

    TBH when I first heard that Turbine was taking over the long winded project of Middle Earth Online I was pretty happy. The project had been handed over from one Dev Team to another for so long I was just greatful that it finally landed on a desk that would provide it a healthy stable environment.
    Unfortunately now I've lost alot of faith in Turbine being able to come up with something even remotely fitting this very precious IP.
    Many of the gameplay decision they've made have in my oppinion been complete folly and really don't think they have a good grasp on how grab the feeling of Middle Earth and make it adventure experience it should be.
    DDO has don't nothing but scare me even more, D&D was a huge IP that could have been gigantic, instead it's a pretty lame exucse of an MMO. Of course that's just my oppinion and I'm sure some people enjoy it but for me, it really did nothing for decrease my faith in Turbine even more.
    Who knows, maybe the team over there will surprise everyone and come out with an MMO to end all MMO's but as it stands now, I'm certainly not holding my breath.
    I agreee with Shae, except while it would be great to see a Middle-Earth MMO come out and just dominate, I'll be happy with just a sloid and enjoyable MMO exerience that utilizes the Tolkien properties effectively...however, Turbine does have a track record, and not a very good one at that.

    But like I said before it is a ME MMO, so despite the fact that Team Numnutz is in control, I'll still give it a chance, who knows.
  • apocalanceapocalance Member UncommonPosts: 1,073

    I'm just worried because everything thing I see of the game just looks boring. The combat looks dull and the quests will most likely end up being less adventerous and more click, read, go kill, complete quest, next quest, repeat. Of course, go kill could be changed into find x/deliver x/gather y number of x/etc. In any event, they have an epic story to work from and tons of historical and surrounding information to really do something with LoTR:O.

    Besides, who was Peter Jackson before LoTR? Who is he now? This could be just as good for Turbine. ::::14::

    so...

  • Helsing78Helsing78 Member Posts: 25

    Originally posted by apocalance



    Besides, who was Peter Jackson before LoTR? Who is he now? This could be just as good for Turbine. ::::14::
    Hey, The Frighteners was kinda good....kinda.
  • Crucible1001Crucible1001 Member UncommonPosts: 31
    Are you kidding me?  Have you not played AC 1 or 2?  AC had the most original magic system to date.  No one has ever complained about AC 1 and originality because it was one of the first MMOs out there. 

    As far as DDO is concerned, that game IS D&D.  It is D&D and nothing more, exactly how it should be.  I honestly don't see what these morons have against DDO.  They think because it is not a cookie cutter mmorpg that it is crap.  It is the only way D&D can be in an MMO.  Have you ever played games like NWN or any other D&D PC game?  If you did, you would think of DDO as taking D&D even further than before.

    Originally posted by Helsing78
    I have incredible respect for Tolkien's works, however, Turbine, a company which needs a dictionary to understand the term originality is the last company that should be given control of this product. As a matter of fact, there's some 4-year olds next door whom I would rather have handle it thant Turbine.



  • DenmarDenmar Member UncommonPosts: 24

    AC1 was a fine, original game that is true, but as far as defending the other Turbine games, you may as well save your breath.  Their other games have been average, at best.  AC2 is dead and gone, that should speak for itself.  DDO.. uhh how could you possibly say that DDO i s the only way a D&D game could be implemented?  People aren't complaining about the ruleset implementations (which are decent, but not great), they are complaining about how the entire game was built.  From the five billion instanced dungeons to the below average combat system, the game is just not that much fun.  A D&D game could have been made in countless ways, what else would explain the thousands of D&D based MUDs that have existed throughout the years and their varying success?  Yes, Turbine took an original approach to DDO, but sadly, it failed.  I am not condemning Turbine for taking risks, in fact I applaud their effort.  However, their track record speaks for itself in that only 1 of their 3 original approaches to games has been embraced by the gaming community. 

    That aside, I have my doubts that Turbine can produce a game that appeals to a large user base, but I think they can make successful  niche games.  I am not so sure their budgets are designed to be supported by niche games, though.  Many people would say that its ok that it won't be largely popular.. and I agree most of the time, but this is the LoTR franchise, and anything short of a large success will be considered a miserable failure.  I guess I should note that "large success" does not mean matching or beating WoW.. any company shooting for that goal is fooling themselves.


    Originally posted by Crucible1001
    Are you kidding me?  Have you not played AC 1 or 2?  AC had the most original magic system to date.  No one has ever complained about AC 1 and originality because it was one of the first MMOs out there. 

    As far as DDO is concerned, that game IS D&D.  It is D&D and nothing more, exactly how it should be.  I honestly don't see what these morons have against DDO.  They think because it is not a cookie cutter mmorpg that it is crap.  It is the only way D&D can be in an MMO.  Have you ever played games like NWN or any other D&D PC game?  If you did, you would think of DDO as taking D&D even further than before.




  • DrkreaperDrkreaper Member Posts: 76

    turbine made a good game with AC dropped the ball with ac2 ..they even had another game they were hyping odssyX or something like that it was dropprd ...I played ddo through 3 10 day betas both stress tests was there on opening day ...got all the founders stuff and was in a top guild ....

    go to ddo now its empty we went throught the content in 20-30 days there are lots of anoying bugs that they still havent fixed ...people say that ddo is a nitch game ..with all that dnd has to offer in lore a 100 times more than lor you would think turbine would have done better ...they messed ddo up real bad ...there is nothing to do in ddo ...and with a lv cap at 10 you cant really explore the multi class char option because you only have 10 lv`s and the chars are gimped at the high lv quests ..

    I will not give turbine  my cash I will wait and get a free demo as that seems to be the trend these days and check it out that way ...but to those posting and saying this game is going to be great befor beta is released are just being wishfull thinkers

  • TarlancTarlanc Member Posts: 2
    I don't think Turbine realised what they got themselves into to begin with. Making every last detail "lore-appropriate" must be taking forever. There have been endless discussions on the community forums about the letter and the spirit of Tolkien's works. Every last line has been quoted umpteen times and compared to the renders, screenshots and concept art the devs fed the community, down to arguments about whether there is any mention of plate mail in the books and whether it would fit into the world concept, or details like whether Bag End had a second floor and arched windows or only one floor and round windows, and whether it looks like a chalet or a hole in the ground.
    Another problem is that several people want the books to be the only source material (as, by license, they should be) or the movies. I'm not saying one is bad and one is good, they are just two completely different creatures, and they both have a huge fan-base, and Turbine may be trying to please both and end up pleasing neither.


    Originally posted by Helsing78

    Originally posted by apocalance



    Besides, who was Peter Jackson before LoTR? Who is he now? This could be just as good for Turbine. ::::14::
    Hey, The Frighteners was kinda good....kinda.


    "Bad Taste" ftw
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