Tell me about AC2

rizean · February 2004

I played AC1 for year and beta tested AC2. Sorry about the state it was released in us beta testers tried out best. I never bought AC2 because I knew it was not ready. I have heard AC2 has changed greatly since release. These are the questions I have:

Combat: EQ/DAoC Style? I.e. Stun/Mez/Root/Snare/DoT's/etc?

Quest? AC style? tell me

PvP?

Grouping? A must? No need? Sometimes?

EPIC Content?

Story Line?

Rizean of Iseult 50 SM/RR3/ML6
Pomho of Iseult 50 Healer/RR2/ML6
Koah of Iseult 46 Shaman
Moge of Iseult 50 Warrior/RR2/ML2

Entico · February 2004

Originally posted by rizean
I played AC1 for year and beta tested AC2. Sorry about the state it was released in us beta testers tried out best.

Tell me about it.

I never bought AC2 because I knew it was not ready.

I did buy it, mainly becouse I was fed up with AC probably. I quit 4 months later tho.

I have heard AC2 has changed greatly since release. These are the questions I have:

Combat: EQ/DAoC Style? I.e. Stun/Mez/Root/Snare/DoT's/etc?

Something like that, Each class has something to offer in fellow. Good fellow should have mezzer, puler, buffer, debuffer, damage dealer, add control etc... There are obviously preferred combination, small changes are still made in some classes. Combat is quick not much downtime between fights.

Quest? AC style? tell me

There are first AC style quests. Multi stepped complicated and long. Most of the current quests in game is "AC2 style". Everything you need to do is follow insstruction from your quest log.

PvP?

Yes, quite popular even, you dont have to participate but if you want to you will find plenty of people who are willing too. One drawback is you must be high lvl. Unfortunately AC2 is level based, lvl 55 in 90% will kill lvl 50 regardless of class if he knows what hes doing. Most of PvP consist group fights, as there is literally no penalty for death other than some vitae PvP is quite popular.

Grouping? A must? No need? Sometimes?

A must maybe not but definetly a need. You can solo if you have right class or are not in a hurry with levels.

EPIC Content?

Yes.

Story Line?

Yes.

Better place to find some info

www.ac2hq.com

Rizean of Iseult 50 SM/RR3/ML6
Pomho of Iseult 50 Healer/RR2/ML6
Koah of Iseult 46 Shaman
Moge of Iseult 50 Warrior/RR2/ML2

==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it

Unknown · February 2004

Originally posted by rizean
I played AC1 for year and beta tested AC2. Sorry about the state it was released in us beta testers tried out best. I never bought AC2 because I knew it was not ready. I have heard AC2 has changed greatly since release. These are the questions I have:

Yep. I know exactly what you went through. I still can't get over how at first the AC2 game DEVs forced all new posts by beta testers to take 24 hours in order to appear.

Combat: EQ/DAoC Style? I.e. Stun/Mez/Root/Snare/DoT's/etc?

IMHO the combat system in AC2 is better than combat EQ. Anyone can duel wield. And there are various weapons to duel wield. One of the benifits of AC2 being roughly 70% Level Based and 30% Skill Based. I personally enjoyed duel wielding 2 hammers and throwing them.

The magic combat system in AC2 is nice also. It's fun making a hybrid character who is good in magic and combat.

Another thing about the combat, there are more Throwing objects than in most other Tolkien-themed games. For example in EQ, the only ranged combat is Bows and Arrows. In AC2 there are Bowa and Arrows, as well as OTHER forms of ranged combat, like Throwing Hammers, Throwing Axes, etc...

Soo.... combat system in AC2 is nice. It is as good or slightly better than EQ. I never fully explored DAoC to comment on DAoC's systems in detail.

Quest? AC style? tell me

AC has a thousand times more quests than AC2. AC2 has nice dungeons, and the quests it does have are also nice. But the game devs for AC2 are still playing catch up since players who exploited to max level right after release were allowed to keep their gains.

One of the 2 WORSE things about AC2 was:

1. The in game map tells you exactly were to go when you reach each level. Zero discovery and exploration of dungeons is involved. "Go here when you are level 12-15" "Go here when you are level 20 - 30" etc...

2. Dungeons will not allow you to enter and complete them if you are above a certain level! And the early levels are a breeze to get through. If you level up too quick, you will be barred from checking out 25% of the game LOL.

PvP?

AC2 had some intresting PvP potiential. Then it instituted FORCED PvP which drove tons of players away. The old "Miner vs Warrior" syndrome that almost killed Ultima Online. DAoC has slightly better PvP than AC2. In DAoC there is more reason to PvP aka more to gain, more to lose. AC2's PvP is not as Level Based as in DAoC. In AC2 it IS possible for a character to kill another character that is higher Level. It IS possible to kill another player that is anywhere from 1 to 10 levels higher.

Anarchy Online still has the best PvP out of every MMORPG out. It solved the PvP problems in DAoC, UO, etc... In AO when players log off they have NPC security protecting their land/turrets/forts/structures. Also in AO it is possible to kill almost any player in PvP. A level 50 can kill a level 100 if he/she know what they are doing. And if they first prepare right.

Star Wars Galaxies has also done PvP right. Though AO has the edge because there are more and better reasons to PvP in AO aka more to gain and more to lose. In SWG players can get their own private humanoid NPC armies to kill other players heheh. SWG is the most realistic MMORPG when it comes to vetaran players being killable by anyone aka a 20year vetaran Navy Seal is still killable by a 12yr old kid with a 9mm gun. Though the Navy Seal will have more advantages, he is not automatically immortal, untouchable... like in DAoC for example.

Alas, there has yet to be a Tolkien-themd MMORPG that has PvP done right. Meaning tons of choices and reasons to want to PvP, and having many things to gain as well as to lose. While also having all PvP be consentual.

Last, due to 90% of ALL PLAYERS LEAVING AC2, and not coming back even 1 year after release....... the PvP battles MAY not be as... *ahem* involved.

Grouping? A must? No need? Sometimes?

It is very easy to solo to mid level. And possible to solo to high level - as long as one plays smart. Aka know how to effectivly combat. And RANGED combat rules! Nothing like killing a powerful monster without getting a scratch, or getting very little scratches.

Grouping is a must if you want to powerlevel, or if you want to kill uber-level monsters, or if you want to become a Master Crafter without dying of boredom. (Get crafting materials from drops faster, and quicker by grouping.)

AC2 is good for solo players and players who like to group. Though if one does like to group it might be hard finding groups due to the dismal number of players who play AC2.

There are now roughly on avarage beteen 200 to 800 players on each server. AC2 after 1 year of release now has roughly 5,000 total accounts.

EPIC Content?

Story Line?

AC2 has had a storyline from day 1 of release. Though the game DEVs are still playing catch up to the players. For example AC2 was heavily advertised with the game feature of players re-building towns, then monsters are suppose to come trying to destroy the downs while players defend them. After 1 year of release this MAJOR game feature is finally being touched after it was suppose to have been in at release as advertised.

FINAL NOTE:
Play the FREE 1 month trial of AC2. See for yourself what AC2 is like, you have nothing to lose except some hours of game time. After the 1 month is over then you have to make an informed decision after considering the following:
- AC2 after being out for 1 year has gone from 50,000 accounts to 5,000 accounts a lost of 90% of its total players.
- AC2 cost roughly 15 million to 25 million to make. Every single other successfull MMORPG has broken even by the time it reached 1 year after release having at least 100,000 accounts. AC2 which has 5,000 accounts will never break even, let alone ever turn a true profit. Thus the reason why AC2 has been deemed a flop, a failed MMORPG.
- Right now AC2 is the only 4th generation Tolkien-themed MMORPG out. Horizions has just released but is still far too new. Very soon other 4th generation Tolkien-themed MMORPGs will release including EQ2, WoW, Lineage 2, and tons, tons, of others. They ALL will have far more than the 5,000 accounts AC2 has. They will all not be dying games that at any moment can have the plug pulled.
- AC2, a brand new modern MMORPG, is getting its A-- kicked by OLD Tolkien-themed MMORPGs on the market right now. And the NEW Tolkien-themed MMORPGs have not even been released yet! AC2 is doing worse than poor right now..... by years end it will be lucky to have 50 players still playing!
- Other than graphics, AC1 is a better investment, and buy than AC2. AC1 is not a dying MMORPG. AC1 has far more than the 5,000 accounts AC2 has.

After taking the above into consideration, it is up to you to make your informed choice to give AC2 your money, and monthly subscription.

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Entico · February 2004

Well said xplororor some thing changed since you left so let me correct you.

One of the 2 WORSE things about AC2 was:

1. The in game map tells you exactly were to go when you reach each level. Zero discovery and exploration of dungeons is involved. "Go here when you are level 12-15" "Go here when you are level 20 - 30" etc...

Have to agree with that one, it was MAJOR drawback. Recently there were few quests added that are truly AC style. Some dont even appear in your questlog nor map. Or consist very litle info like "find out what happend with <some name here>.

2. Dungeons will not allow you to enter and complete them if you are above a certain level! And the early levels are a breeze to get through. If you level up too quick, you will be barred from checking out 25% of the game LOL.

I think all restriction for upper level are removed now.

I wont go into debate about PvP now. Basically if you start on white server and dont want to participate in PvP you can be lvl 60 and have all quest items in game without putting your foot in PvP zone. If you like PvP you will find lots of people doing it and enjoying it. Death penalty in AC2 is very mild and dying was never a problem for anyone.

And RANGED combat rules! Nothing like killing a powerful monster without getting a scratch, or getting very little scratches.

And that one just cracked me up ROFL. Classes succesfull in solo are either melee tanks or pet classes. Ranged and mages can solo but not as good as those 2 above.

Story line in AC2 is not about rebuilding towns, there is a conflict in the world involving 3 kingdoms Order, Shadow and Dominion and storyline evolves around this conflict. xplororor quit AC2 9 months ago so hes not very well informed.

Final Note.

There is no one month free trial. There is 2 weeks free trial:

http://microsoftgamesinsider.com/AC2/freetrial.htm

Ignore those numbers they are comppletely false. He sucked them from his thumb and spamming this forum with them. Expect to see them few more times in this thread .

And please xplororor dont call AC franchise Tolkien-Themed its apples and oranges you talking about.

==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it

Unknown · February 2004

Originally posted by Entico
Well said xplororor some thing changed since you left so let me correct you.

One of the 2 WORSE things about AC2 was:

1. The in game map tells you exactly were to go when you reach each level. Zero discovery and exploration of dungeons is involved. "Go here when you are level 12-15" "Go here when you are level 20 - 30" etc...

Have to agree with that one, it was MAJOR drawback. Recently there were few quests added that are truly AC style. Some dont even appear in your questlog nor map. Or consist very litle info like "find out what happend with <some name here>.

   Glad you agree. I can still remember how I stopped what I was doing for 5 mins while I stared at the in game map the first time I looked at it. I thought it was a bug. It took "dumbing down" to a whole new level.

Even from what you now say, the majority of the game is still officially on the in game map if it's just "a few quests" that are not on the "dumbed down" in game map.

2. Dungeons will not allow you to enter and complete them if you are above a certain level! And the early levels are a breeze to get through. If you level up too quick, you will be barred from checking out 25% of the game LOL.

I think all restriction for upper level are removed now.

Even after what you say, what about the lower level and mid level dungeons? The upper level dungeons are not really a problem because players will remain at upper levels longer aka take longer to level up vs shooting thorough the lower levels.

I wont go into debate about PvP now. Basically if you start on white server and dont want to participate in PvP you can be lvl 60 and have all quest items in game without putting your foot in PvP zone. If you like PvP you will find lots of people doing it and enjoying it. Death penalty in AC2 is very mild and dying was never a problem for anyone.

AC2 no longer has Forced PvP, so no further comment needed from me. Sad that they wasted time re-learning what other MMORPGs learned from UO.

And RANGED combat rules! Nothing like killing a powerful monster without getting a scratch, or getting very little scratches.

And that one just cracked me up ROFL. Classes succesfull in solo are either melee tanks or pet classes. Ranged and mages can solo but not as good as those 2 above.

We are both right. Every player has their own play style. BTW, a ranged player will move or "kite" a monster which gives him even more shots at the monster. My character was a combo of melee/range/magic. With equal parts ranged and melee, and just defensive magic spells. If a ranged player gets a nice level crafter to craft the best possible weapons and armor, the ranged player IMHO will rule the pure melee player.

Story line in AC2 is not about rebuilding towns, there is a conflict in the world involving 3 kingdoms Order, Shadow and Dominion and storyline evolves around this conflict. xplororor quit AC2 9 months ago so hes not very well informed.

   UNBELIEVEABLE! AC2 was HEAVILY Advertised having this MAJOR game feature that no other MMORPG had or has. So you are saying AC2 has completly thrown this feature out? False advertising strikes hard. Bad enough it wasn't in game at release. Now it takes them 1 year after release to decide to throw it completly out.

BTW, I stopped playing AC2 in June 2003. It is now mid Febuary 2004 = 7 solid months I have not played AC2.

Final Note.

There is no one month free trial. There is 2 weeks free trial:

http://microsoftgamesinsider.com/AC2/freetrial.htm

I stand corrected. AC2 as of now has just a 2 week free trial period.

Ignore those numbers they are comppletely false. He sucked them from his thumb and spamming this forum with them. Expect to see them few more times in this thread .

Ummm riiight. So AlphaMalebsr, and other current AC2 players are all lying? Because that is where I am getting those numbers from.

And please xplororor dont call AC franchise Tolkien-Themed its apples and oranges you talking about.

   You might not like it, but AC2 is a Tolkien-themed MMORPG. It has ALL elements from Dungeons and Dragons. D&D got it's start from the culture surrounding Tolkien.

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Entico · February 2004

Even after what you say, what about the lower level and mid level dungeons?

Missunderstanding there, what I mean is that upper level restriction on ALL DUNGEONS is removed.

Even from what you now say, the majority of the game is still officially on the in game map if it's just "a few quests" that are not on the "dumbed down" in game map.

Turbine did not take away map from relase. But it is not upated with all new locations. New island is completely bold on it and no points of interest are marked on it.

If a ranged player gets a nice level crafter to craft the best possible weapons and armor, the ranged player IMHO will rule the pure melee player.

Crafting items are decent only untill level 39, from lvl 20 when you can make knights then lords then kights armor quests crafted armor is only that decent, there are better.

UNBELIEVEABLE! AC2 was HEAVILY Advertised having this MAJOR game feature that no other MMORPG had or has. So you are saying AC2 has completly thrown this feature out? False advertising strikes hard. Bad enough it wasn't in game at release. Now it takes them 1 year after release to decide to throw it completly out.

Uhm AC2 wasn't "heavly" advertised compared to other MMORPG. Campaign was one month long campaign consisted 2 pages in some computer magazine and thats about it. You couldnt even see AC2 banner on popular game sites. Rebulding towns was in fact one of features devs promised and failed in this field miserably. It was false advertising, implementing proven to me more difficult than planning. Soon after relase (about a month or 2) they admitted that rebuilding is limited to forges and not all buildings in towns. This feature is not scrapped out completely but rather postponed for some time in the future.

Ummm riiight. So AlphaMalebsr, and other current AC2 players are all lying? Because that is where I am getting those numbers from.

Please show me where any active AC2 player posted that AC2 has 5k accounts. You are only parson with those false claims and you can not back them up with anything.

==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it

Unknown · February 2004

Originally posted by Entico
Turbine did not take away map from relase. But it is not upated with all new locations. New island is completely bold on it and no points of interest are marked on it.

   They SHOULD and Could take it away right now. Any little effort to bring in new players and keep them helps one would think. This means for new players they are still killing the game play of those who like to explore, discover, etc....

Crafting items are decent only untill level 39, from lvl 20 when you can make knights then lords then kights armor quests crafted armor is only that decent, there are better.

I then listed how I did my hybrid character. I should be more specific though. I am not talking about a pure Ranged player. But a player who is equally strong in ranged and melee vs a pure melee player. But this is really a matter of every player's choice of playstyle so if you prefer to be pure melee and I prefer to be a mix of melee and ranged neither of us are right or wrong.

   UNBELIEVEABLE! AC2 was HEAVILY Advertised having this MAJOR game feature that no other MMORPG had or has. So you are saying AC2 has completly thrown this feature out? False advertising strikes hard. Bad enough it wasn't in game at release. Now it takes them 1 year after release to decide to throw it completly out.

Uhm AC2 wasn't "heavly" advertised compared to other MMORPG. Campaign was one month long campaign consisted 2 pages in some computer magazine and  thats about it. You couldnt even see AC2 banner on popular game sites. Rebulding towns was in fact one of features devs promised and failed in this field miserably. It was false advertising, implementing proven to me more difficult than planning. Soon after relase (about a month or 2) they admitted that rebuilding is limited to forges and not all buildings in towns. This feature is not scrapped out completely but rather postponed for some time in the future.

   Bleh. At least we are in full agreement. I'll even say I'm shocked at how much you agree when you even post it was false advertisement.

Ummm riiight. So AlphaMalebsr, and other current AC2 players are all lying? Because that is where I am getting those numbers from.

Please show me where any active AC2 player posted that AC2 has 5k accounts. You are only parson with those false claims and you can not back them up with anything.

Guy, AlphaMasterbsr and others have posted AC2's number of online players for all 7 servers has been between roughly 1,000 to 3,000 (at PEAK time) over the past 4 weeks soo far. Obviously there are players who are sleeping, at work, school, in different time zones, etc... who are not online and can't be online. Thus I doubled the number to make up for the players who are offline. BTW, the avarage numbers these current players of AC2 have been posting has been falling.

That is how I arrive at AC2 having roughly 5,000 players. This is an avarage. There is the turnover rate, new players joining, players quitting, etc....

But let's go further out on a limb in favor of AC2:

   1,000 to 3,000 players have been seen online on all 7 servers. (Actually 1,400 to 2,800 was posted by AlphaMisterbsr and others.)

That is 2,000 to 6,000 accounts IF every player plays 12 hours a day.

That is 3,000 to 9,000 accounts IF every player plays 9 hours a day.

That is 4,000 to 12,000 accounts IF every player plays 6 hours a day.

That is 8,000 to 24,000 accounts IF every player plays 3 hours a day.

That is 16,000 to 58,000 accounts IF every player plays 1 1/2 hours a day.

AC2 is roughly a 70% Level Based and 30% Skill Based game. Not as Level Based as EQ. And not as Skill Based as UO or SWG. But it still leans more towards the importance of Levels. Thus Achiever-type players are favored aka players who have the most free time to play will reach the highest levels. Players with even more free time to play will reach the highest levels the quickest.

I will right now admit it is now unlikely the MAJORITY of players play an avarage of 12 hours a day which would mean AC2 has 2k to 6k accounts aka an avarage of 4,000 players.

An avarage of 6 to 9 hours is much more realistic, and likely for the MAJORITY of AC2 players. So... 6k ....to..... 8k players. With 8k the avarage number of players at PEAK time.

Alright, I will raise my 5,000 account avarge for AC2 up to 6,000 accounts avarage since PEAK time is not around the clock, nor the majority of the time.

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Entico · February 2004

Please show me where any active AC2 player posted that AC2 has 5k accounts. You are only parson with those false claims and you can not back them up with anything.

Guy, AlphaMasterbsr and others have posted AC2's number of online players...

...Thus I doubled the number ...

Online players and active accounts is not the same. I asked you to provide link to post where current AC2 player says how many accounts AC2 has and can back it up with anything. Doubling number of players on server at any given time means absolutely nothing, you may as well multiply it by 100. You cant provide link - give up, none of us knows how many AC2 activve accounts there is.

That is 3,000 to 9,000 accounts IF every player plays 9 hours a day.

I'm guessing you assuming that average player play 9 hours a day. I am member of a small guild on TD server of about 20 ppl. None of them play more than 3 hours a day. If average player play 9 hours a day you would need 20 ppl playing 15 hours a day or 40 players playing 12 hours a day or 80 players playing 10.5 hour a day a day to even it out. Now I know quite alot people in AC2 but I dont know even one person who play on average 9 hours a day. Most of them play MAXIMUM 5 hours during the weekend and 2-3 hours week days. You do the math.

==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it

Unknown · February 2004

Originally posted by Entico
Online players and active accounts is not the same. I asked you to provide link to post where current AC2 player says how many accounts AC2 has and can back it up with anything. Doubling number of players on server at any given time means absolutely nothing, you may as well multiply it by 100. You cant provide link - give up, none of us knows how many AC2 activve accounts there is.

Hmmm.... if we multiply the numbers AlphaMasterbsr, and other current AC2 players posted, by 100 like you say, that would be 200,000 accounts that AC2 has.

So tell us, if AC2 has 200,000 accounts (according to you) why are only 2,000 players playing online. Why are only 6,000 players playing online at PEAK time?

Number of online players during PEAK time, and during non-peak time IS an indicator of how many accounts a game has, and how many players are playing a game. Especially if the number of online players keeps going down, down, down, down, down.

That is 3,000 to 9,000 accounts IF every player plays 9 hours a day.

I'm guessing you assuming that average player play 9 hours a day. I am member of a small guild on TD server of about 20 ppl. None of them play more than 3 hours a day. If average player play 9 hours a day you would need 20 ppl playing 15 hours a day or 40 players playing 12 hours a day or 80 players playing 10.5 hour a day a day to even it out. Now I know quite alot people in AC2 but I dont know even one person who play on average 9 hours a day. Most of them play MAXIMUM 5 hours during the weekend and 2-3 hours week days. You do the math.

1. How many are in this small guild of yours? What is the name of this small guild of yours?

2. In order for there to be players playing an avarage of 9 hours a day, it means some play more and some play less. Some play for 12 hours, some play for 6 hours. Some may play 1 hour Mon-Fri, then 12 hrs on Sat and Sun.

3. Since AlphaMasterbsr has posted that at most 800 players were online during PEAK hours and roughly 400 were online during non-peak hours...... it means 300 to 600 players on avarage play less than 9 hours AND more than 9 hours (this is PEAK time players.). During non peak it means an avarage of 150 players play more than 9 hours, and 150 play less than 9 hours.

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Jutul · February 2004

To the original poster: I suggest asking your questions in VN-boards or on www.ac2hq.com. This board is xplororor's turf, and every thread started here will be assimilated and filled with information about how AC2 can't be a good game because of its low population rate. All I know is I am having lots of fun, and no problems finding groups.

milhoan6 · February 2004

Hey Xploror, i guess its like you said in SWG's defense in the SWG message boards... it doesnt matter if the population on the server is low... now i dont know how many ppl are on AC2 at the same time(i never look at the populations

) but AC2 may have many accounts of people who are not playing but are paying. The # of paying accounts and playing accounts could (notice i bolded could!) be a big difference. Now for any of u who are looking at the message boards... i would highly recommend trying the 15-day trial.. u dont even need a credit card to see if it's the game for you

Unknown · February 2004

Originally posted by milhoan6
Hey Xploror, i guess its like you said in SWG's defense in the SWG message boards... it doesnt matter if the population on the server is low... now i dont know how many ppl are on AC2 at the same time(i never look at the populations) but AC2 may have many accounts of people who are not playing but are paying. The # of paying accounts and playing accounts could (notice i bolded could!) be a big difference. Now for any of u who are looking at the message boards... i would highly recommend trying the 15-day trial.. u dont even need a credit card to see if it's the game for you

Riiight. Out of the 2,000 players online at the same time in AC2 how many do you think are not playing at all, but still allowing their accounts to be charged? LOL!

SWG cannot be compared to AC2. SWG is a successfull MMORPG. It is on track to being a successfull MMORPG. It has 20 servers with more NEW servers being added. And the game has been out for less than 1 yearr.

AC2 has 7 servers after being out for 1 year and only 2,000 players online at the same time. Can you say "time for a server consolodation?".

AC2 is no EQ. AC2 is no UO. AC2 is no SWG. <- All are sucessfull MMORPGs. The reason why it can be said that in EQ out of its 400,000 accounts many are not being used, but are still being paied for is because EQ already became a successfull MMORPG. Players don't want to risk losing their gains. Same with UO, SWG, and even AC1.

EVERY single OTHER MMORPG easily has far more than 2,000 players online at the same time. More like 20,000 to 50,000 to 100,000 to 200,000.

Your arguement defeats its own self. You say may. The facts say no may. The facts say roughly 2,000 players online at the same time the majority of the time.

LOL imagine AC2 having 100,000 accounts but only 2,000 of them are actually being used LOLOL!

90% of players on purpose are not playing but still paying? Ummm.... yeah... riiiiight.

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Drimbrull · February 2004

As a totally rough guess ... I would suggest AC2 has around 20,000 paying accounts.

Why? 2500 or slightly more on line peak times (6 hours) average player plays for about 3 hours per day ... 5000 accounts there.

around 1000 - 1500 non-peak times (3 hours average play over 18 hours) 6000 - 9000 accounts there.

Those that can't play every day, playing just weekends, pop in now and again etc etc, probably another 6000 -7000

Ah well around these figures anyway.

Now lets see the financial implication here ... at $13 per month that's 260k per month subs ($3.12m), over 100000 copies sold (from your figures) @ $40+ is $4m, probably twice as much in subs from AC ($6.24m) and you are looking at Turbine making roughly $13.5m last year. Now this is small by comparison to some games, but considering they are a smallish team (20 or so) this makes for a profitable company by my eyes. So why would either AC or AC2 be on the brink of failure?

They wont.

Please stop posting your usual innane rantings about how doomed the game is, get over the fact that you don't play any more, move onto another game and stop flaming in this forum. If you are unhappy, deal with it.

Unknown · February 2004

Originally posted by Drimbrull
As a totally rough guess ... I would suggest AC2 has around 20,000 paying accounts.

Why? 2500 or slightly more on line peak times (6 hours) average player plays for about 3 hours per day ... 5000 accounts there.

PEAK times are not a major factor. Non-Peak time number of players are online longer than Peak time players. P.S. the peak time numbers never reached 2,500. As posted by AlphaMasterbsr there were roughly 1,800 players online at peaktime.

around 1000 - 1500 non-peak times (3 hours average play over 18 hours) 6000 - 9000 accounts there.

As posted by AlphaMasterbsr, there were roughly 800 players online during non-peak hours.

Those that can't play every day, playing just weekends, pop in now and again etc etc, probably another 6000 -7000

These players are already factored in. Aka players go back and forth from being "weekend only" players. Technically there are 4 weekends aka to factor in the different timezones around the world. So this information you stated is moot. When it is Mon-Tues where you live it is Sat-Sun somewhere else. When it is Wed-Thurs where you live, it is Sat-Sun somewhere else, etc.. etc... When it is the weekend where you live, Sat-Sun... it is the week day somewhere else Mon-Fri... etc... etc...

This alone almost cuts your "20,000" total in almost half. Leaving you with 13,000 accouts going by YOUR total roughl guess. Which is pretty close to my postings of 6,000 accounts (if all players played an avarage of 12 hrs), and my postings of 12,000 accounts (if al players played an avarage of 6 hours.)

Ah well around these figures anyway.

Now lets see the financial implication here ... at $13 per month that's 260k per month subs ($3.12m), over 100000 copies sold (from your figures) @ $40+ is $4m, probably twice as much in subs from AC ($6.24m) and you are looking at Turbine making roughly $13.5m last year. Now this is small by comparison to some games, but considering they are a smallish team (20 or so) this makes for a profitable company by my eyes. So why would either AC or AC2 be on the brink of failure?

They wont.

Yes you are correct - I have stated AC aka AC1 has sold over 100,000 accounts, and that it IS a successfull MMORPG.

This is about AC2, NOT AC1. AC1 has paid for itself. AC1 IS a financiall success. AC1 is also NOT a flop. AC1 has easily far more than 2,000... far more than 12,000 players playing it online at the same time.

AC1 cost roughly 5 million to make (AC1's game engine is on par with EQ's game engine.)

AC2 cost 15 million (very conservative estimate) to 20 million (my personal estimate) to 25 million to make (liberal estimate). This is comparing AC2's game engine to EQ2, SWG, and to the recently released cost for MYTHICA. Mythica ahh yes, Parent company MicroCrap...errr... MicroSoft's other modern, brand new, MMORPG that... floped, tanked, failed. MicroSoft on purpose asorbed the 20 million Mythica cost it. Just like it on purpose asorbed the roughly 20 million AC2 cost it.

I am going to for now on not use the conservative estimate due to the fact MicroSoft recently released the cost for Mythica, which has a game engine on par with AC2.

Thus that is 20 million in investment money that has to be paid by the current roughly 12,000 accounts in AC2.

Ahh but there is more! Ever since release, AC2 has been steadily LOSING accounts. How much longer will AC2 have roughly 6,000 to 12,000 accounts? We will have to wait for AlphaMasterbsr to post updates next month and compare them to what he posted for this month.

Last, it does not matter how small AC2's DEV team is, or how small the company is, it does not stop the fact AC2 is a multi-million $$$$ game engine, multi-million $$$$ MMORPG. And actually Turbine is right now not a small company. They are an avarage size company. You want an example of small? Funcom is a small comany.

Please stop posting your usual innane rantings about how doomed the game is, get over the fact that you don't play any more, move onto another game and stop flaming in this forum. If you are unhappy, deal with it.

*sigh*
You have forgotten my points for posting here.
- I have never flamed in this forum, nor in any forum, during my past 5 years of posting in forums on the internet. A flame, or flamer, is one who posts with the sole purpose of causing trouble without any info backing up what they post.
*High fives AlphaMasterbsr*
- AC2 has lost over 90% of its players = a doomed game. Maybe not to you, but we will let the lurkers decide for theirselves LOL!
- AC2 is not a financial success, nor is anywhere close to being a success. It has roughly 6,000 to 12,000 accounts in an industry where having 50,000 accounts is looked on as having a chance to be successfull and 100,000 accounts is a bona fid success.
- I did stop playing AC2 along with 90% of the rest of its players because I, and they, saw there are better MMORPGs out there (including AC1).
- I continue posting here, and in other AC2 forums at other sites, to make sure all lurkers, and possible new players, are throughly informed about AC2 before deciding to spend their hard earned money and irreplaceable time on it.
- I also want to make sure AC2 does not "get quietly swept under the rug". Aka make sure it forever gets held up in front of the industry to make sure another AC2 never happens again. Heck I may have even succeeded RIP Mythica !!!!!!
(Hey Anyuzer what's up! )

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Lebowski · February 2004

For all the ppl who think Turbine is having financial problems and think that AC2 won't be supported:

Turbine to open new Los Angeles studio
Jason Bell tapped to head developer's new West Coast office, which will also serve as a hub for Asian business development.
Asheron's Call creator Turbine Entertainment continues in growth mode. Two months ago, it secured $18 million in venture capital. Just days later, news broke that it had bought back all rights to the Asheron's Call property it had earlier licensed to Microsoft. And concurrent with that announcement, the company said it intended to support all game operations for Asheron's Call, Asheron's Call 2, all expansion packs, and the upcoming Dungeons & Dragons Online.

So they must be having some 'financial success'. ::::20::

When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.

krityc · February 2004

Financial this financial that.

I played AC2 from the day it was released until SWG came out. What a mistake that was. I haven't gone back to AC2 yet because I've tested a few games as well as dable with a few others to see what is to my like'n. So many people knock AC2 because it wasn't a clone of AC1 (mainly because it has a huge backing.) AC2 has great server stability, a compeling story line linked with epic quest, top notch graphics, fun races(although only 3), good csr response, fun pvp/gvg/kvk system . . .etc. I will honestly say that AC2 is the most underated game to date. It posses the many things people look for in a game. Turbine has also done a great job of adding new interesting content promptly. I can say they are one of the few companies that follow through promptly on fixes/updates/patches.

About the only reason i quit is I figured SWG would be a great game *cough, but also at the time Turbine was adding new content that drastically changed some character builds. With that they allowed people to reset all skill with a command. This enabled people to instantly rebuild they're character keeping the same level. I worked hard to build a unique template and this enabled many to copy cat/cookie cutter other peoples well designed templates that they took time to build to own in pvp events. Not only that two major guilds that were involved in conflicts started to fall apart and thats where this game comes together for me is the pvp/kvk.

"You can lay on your back for hours and imagine clouds are various animals, but in the end they are just clouds."

Krityc 2/9/04

holla!

Entico · February 2004

Originally posted by xplororor

- I have never flamed in this forum, nor in any forum, during my past 5 years of posting in forums on the internet. A flame, or flamer, is one who posts with the sole purpose of causing trouble without any info backing up what they post.

From xplororor User Details:

It was because of a girl I met in California in 2000 that I first got into the internet.

You discovered internet 3-4 years ago yet you posting on forums for 5 years. You words hold no true what so ever. You twist and change your "stories" as they suit you.

Is it becouse of your self inflated ego or you just frustrated that SWG is a miserable failure?

==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it

Drimbrull · February 2004

Originally posted by xplororor

As posted by AlphaMasterbsr, there were roughly 800 players online during non-peak hours.

That is PER server! I could say you should do 800 * 7 = 5400, but that's incorrect. Accurate numbers are, +/- 5%.

Frostfell 850

Thistledown 850

Coldeve 450

Darktide 400

Dawnsong 450

French/German servers 400

These are peak numbers. As you can see well above the 2500 average I stated above but for ease of use I was looking at US figures only (although I am in the EU)

Those that can't play every day, playing just weekends, pop in now and again etc etc, probably another 6000 -7000

These players are already factored in. Aka players go back and forth from being "weekend only" players. Technically there are 4 weekends aka to factor in the different timezones around the world. So this information you stated is moot. When it is Mon-Tues where you live it is Sat-Sun somewhere else. When it is Wed-Thurs where you live, it is Sat-Sun somewhere else, etc.. etc... When it is the weekend where you live, Sat-Sun... it is the week day somewhere else Mon-Fri... etc... etc...

Such utter crap, do you really have so liitle idea of the world! The MAXIMUM time difference from GMT (London) which is the central point for time is 12 hours + or - ... you can have a different day but only but up to 12 hours into that day. Or can you pleaes tell me if it is Thursday where you are, where in the world it will be Sunday?

This alone almost cuts your "20,000" total in almost half. Leaving you with 13,000 accouts going by YOUR total roughl guess. Which is pretty close to my postings of 6,000 accounts (if all players played an avarage of 12 hrs), and my postings of 12,000 accounts (if al players played an avarage of 6 hours.)

Kinda proven you wrong with this ASSUMPTION. Nuff said.

Ah well around these figures anyway.

Now lets see the financial implication here ... at $13 per month that's 260k per month subs ($3.12m), over 100000 copies sold (from your figures) @ $40+ is $4m, probably twice as much in subs from AC ($6.24m) and you are looking at Turbine making roughly $13.5m last year. Now this is small by comparison to some games, but considering they are a smallish team (20 or so) this makes for a profitable company by my eyes. So why would either AC or AC2 be on the brink of failure?

They wont.

Yes you are correct - I have stated AC aka AC1 has sold over 100,000 accounts, and that it IS a successfull MMORPG.

This is about AC2, NOT AC1. AC1 has paid for itself. AC1 IS a financiall success. AC1 is also NOT a flop. AC1 has easily far more than 2,000... far more than 12,000 players playing it online at the same time.

2 things, it's actually about Turbine, not either of these games independantly - Turbine are the company supporting/owning these games and it is their P&L that will determine the future of either of these titles, not your assumptions.

Also, I read in another post on here that AC was just managing to get 1000 players on it's busiest servers, so unless you can tell me they have 20 servers running I fail to see how your figures are correct (yes you assumed again), and considering a large portion of these are bots, the active player base is in fact far smaller that you suggest. But I am not here to go into the in's and out's of AC1

AC1 cost roughly 5 million to make (AC1's game engine is on par with EQ's game engine.)

Sweeeping assumption unless you can post proof of TURBINE's development costs. not assumptions and associations.

AC2 cost 15 million (very conservative estimate) to 20 million (my personal estimate) to 25 million to make (liberal estimate). This is comparing AC2's game engine to EQ2, SWG, and to the recently released cost for MYTHICA. Mythica ahh yes, Parent company MicroCrap...errr... MicroSoft's other modern, brand new, MMORPG that... floped, tanked, failed. MicroSoft on purpose asorbed the 20 million Mythica cost it. Just like it on purpose asorbed the roughly 20 million AC2 cost it.

Again an assumption ... can you post proof of TURBINE's development costs. Again you have shown the development cost ... regardless of what it was means nothing (due to MS absorbing it), as AC and AC2 are run by Turbine, not Microsoft.

I am going to for now on not use the conservative estimate due to the fact MicroSoft recently released the cost for Mythica, which has a game engine on par with AC2.

Totally moot point.

Thus that is 20 million in investment money that has to be paid by the current roughly 12,000 accounts in AC2.

Again incorrect, Turbine have made their agreement with MS and will have complete control over AC, AC2, the entire franchises lock stock and barrel and will have this transition complete by the end of this year. The paying of the development cost does not effect you, me or any player and the deal Turbine have struck with MS is between them.

Ahh but there is more! Ever since release, AC2 has been steadily LOSING accounts. How much longer will AC2 have roughly 6,000 to 12,000 accounts? We will have to wait for AlphaMasterbsr to post updates next month and compare them to what he posted for this month.

All MMORPG's lose accounts after launch, sad but true but they ALL do. I have posted the correct figures above so if Alpha wants to post the same fine, but you can work on those above as accurate.

Last, it does not matter how small AC2's DEV team is, or how small the company is, it does not stop the fact AC2 is a multi-million $$$$ game engine, multi-million $$$$ MMORPG. And actually Turbine is right now not a small company. They are an avarage size company. You want an example of small? Funcom is a small comany.

This really does make me laugh ... mulit million $$$$ game engine they developed for free! Result.

And the reason I mentioned the size of the company is to show they are making a profit. If Turbine were losing money (which is what you suggest MUST happen if a game has less than 100,000 subsribers) then the future of that game would certainly be in jeopardy, but htis just isn't the case.

Please stop posting your usual innane rantings about how doomed the game is, get over the fact that you don't play any more, move onto another game and stop flaming in this forum. If you are unhappy, deal with it.

*sigh*
You have forgotten my points for posting here.
- I have never flamed in this forum, nor in any forum, during my past 5 years of posting in forums on the internet. A flame, or flamer, is one who posts with the sole purpose of causing trouble without any info backing up what they post.
A flame is a flame ... if you are saying "It's crap" it doesn;t matter whether you use 2 words or 200 words, it's still a flame and the regularity you post your same reasons it's flame spamming too! Plus all your information is assumption on the main, or mis-interpreting what you have read on a forum somewhere!
*High fives AlphaMasterbsr*

So ... all your evidence is based on one post from Alpha which you managed to mi-understand anyway ... way to go!

- AC2 has lost over 90% of its players = a doomed game. Maybe not to you, but we will let the lurkers decide for theirselves LOL!

You were a lurker for how many months? You left some 7 or 8 months ago proclaiming the game is dead, but look, it's still here, going OK and making money ... why would that be doomed? Oh and on a side note ... it's interesting that if you played the game for 8 or 9 months or so, why you only ever managed to get screenshots from the Beta, interesting, Gonna be drawing conclusions from this,but I'll save that for later.

AC2 is not a financial success, nor is anywhere close to being a success. It has roughly 6,000 to 12,000 accounts in an industry where having 50,000 accounts is looked on as having a chance to be successfull and 100,000 accounts is a bona fid success.

What a pile of cack, a success for the developers and the players is whether the game makes money. If it does, updates happen and the world survives and the dev's and players are happy - if it doesn;t it dies and they all move on. As things stand this is as good a success as any out there, just with smaller numbers.

- I did stop playing AC2 along with 90% of the rest of its players because I, and they, saw there are better MMORPGs out there (including AC1).
Hmmm, 90% of their players ... end of Beta was it? and please tell me what (as you incorrectly call it 'Tolkien based') games have come out since ... Horizons! rofl.
- I continue posting here, and in other AC2 forums at other sites, to make sure all lurkers, and possible new players, are throughly informed about AC2 before deciding to spend their hard earned money and irreplaceable time on it.
So you post on the official forums do you ? or at AC2HQ, or Fallen Kingdoms? or Tumeroks.com? Nope! These are the boards where players post and I have NEVER seen you posting at any of these, you seem to lurk here spouting your version of the world to a limited audience, I mean damn even my ally website has 50 times the amount of posts that you get here!
- I also want to make sure AC2 does not "get quietly swept under the rug". Aka make sure it forever gets held up in front of the industry to make sure another AC2 never happens again. Heck I may have even succeeded RIP Mythica !!!!!!

Ah now we get to the crux of it ... it's your 1 person campaign against games you don't want to see succeed, damn Xplororor you really are one of the saddest individuals I have ever seen posting on any board! You single handedly caused the downfall of Mythica by saying AC2 was doomed ... damn there is no smiley anywhere near funny enough right now!

(Hey Anyuzer what's up! )

Unknown · February 2004

Originally posted by Lebowski

For all the ppl who think Turbine is having financial problems and think that AC2 won't be supported:

Turbine to open new Los Angeles studio

Jason Bell tapped to head developer's new West Coast office, which will also serve as a hub for Asian business development.
Asheron's Call creator Turbine Entertainment continues in growth mode. Two months ago, it secured $18 million in venture capital. Just days later, news broke that it had bought back all rights to the Asheron's Call property it had earlier licensed to Microsoft. And concurrent with that announcement, the company said it intended to support all game operations for Asheron's Call, Asheron's Call 2, all expansion packs, and the upcoming Dungeons & Dragons Online.

So they must be having some 'financial success'. ::::20::

When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.

Ehhh guy, re-read your quote. Turbine mangaged to get more loans. That Venture Capital will eventually have to be paid off.

Compare to SONY which did not need any loans to make EQ2.

Shucks, one can even say your quote is further proof of AC2's failure. AC aka AC1 has been around almost as long as EQ. EQ has generated between 100million to 300 million, enough for SONY to easily produce three more new MMORPGs (yeah Planetside is IMHO a hybrid MMOFPS. But it still has a MMORPG world game engine, and concepts.)

One would think AC has generated at least half of what EQ generated.... even 2/3, or even 1/4 of what EQ has generated. Turbine should not need "more venture capital" aka loans.... unless the cost of 20 million $$$$ AC2 has hurt them bad enough,.... and they are leveraging the successful AC to get further loans.

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Unknown · February 2004

Originally posted by Entico

Originally posted by xplororor

- I have never flamed in this forum, nor in any forum, during my past 5 years of posting in forums on the internet. A flame, or flamer, is one who posts with the sole purpose of causing trouble without any info backing up what they post.

From xplororor User Details:

It was because of a girl I met in California in 2000 that I first got into the internet.

You discovered internet 3-4 years ago yet you posting on forums for 5 years. You words hold no true what so ever. You twist and change your "stories" as they suit you.

Is it becouse of your self inflated ego or you just frustrated that SWG is a miserable failure?

1. We're now in mid Febuary 2004. I actually met her in Nov 2003 and was checking out the internet casually at her friend's house. But it never intrested me. I saw it, I surfed it, I posted on it, but never got into it. I only checked it out whenever she wanted to check it out. It's like you hating romance movies, but going anyway because your girl likes them. Does it mean you are into them? Vs you on your own free time going to romance movies on purpose LOL.

It was a few months later that I got annoyed with how little I knew and went to a libary for free classes on using the internet and then "got into it". Aka I purchased my own computer, connection, and on purpose spent my free time activly surfing for hours.

If you want to get technical from Jan 2000 to present time it has been 4 years and 1 month. That is over 4 years. So you are incorrect saying I discovered the internet 3-4 years ago.

2. You still have not shown anywhere where I have flamed aka caused trouble without anything to back up what I post.

3. SWG is a bona fid success. SWG easily has far, far, more than 2,000 to 6,000 to 12,000 players playing online at the exact same time LOL! It must be amusing to all the lurkers that you take pride in AC2 possibly having 6,000 to 12,000 to 13,000 accounts,.... yet you want to scream as loud as possible SWG is a "miserable failure" when you/AC2 fanatics estimate SWG has 75,000 accounts.

Yep, EVERY single other major MMORPG is more successfull than AC2.

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Drimbrull · February 2004

Originally posted by xplororor

Yep, EVERY single other major MMORPG is more successfull than AC2.

So bloody what? Does this mean (as you have been saying time and time again) the game is doomed? Nope, just has less people playing it that other games. We live with it, why don't you!

Yordo · February 2004

I actually was impressed with AC2 when I tried the free trial out. I suspected it to be a total bomb but the game hooked me during the trial. Once you get past their tutorial, the world opens up to you and then you get the feeling of an MMO. I think that most people just gave up and weren't patient enough to go through the tutorial. Also, the controls are bad if you aren't used to them. They provided an easy feature which changes the controls to fit the EQ or DAoC interface, which really helped me. I'm not saying I would go out and buy AC2, but it is definitely not a bombed game anymore.

::Yordo::
EQ2, UXO, Lineage 2, KO, Guild Wars, City of Heroes

Unknown · February 2004

Originally posted by Drimbrull

Originally posted by xplororor

As posted by AlphaMasterbsr, there were roughly 800 players online during non-peak hours.

That is PER server! I could say you should do 800 * 7 = 5400, but that's incorrect. Accurate numbers are, +/- 5%.

Frostfell 850

Thistledown 850

Coldeve 450

Darktide 400

Dawnsong 450

French/German servers 400

These are peak numbers. As you can see well above the 2500 average I stated above but for ease of use I was looking at US figures only (although I am in the EU)

1. You cannot do 800 * 7, as shown by your OWN figures, the MAJORITY of servers have roughly HALF of 800.

2. Thats 4,600 / 7 = 600 to 700 avarage players on each server. It will be VERY INTRESTING to see what the server numbers are next month. And as you state, these are the PEAK numbers aka the majority of the time the numbers are much, much, much lower!

Roughly 400 on the first two, and roughly 200 players on the majority/rest.

3. Shucks, there are Guilds in every MMORPG with MORE players than what are on many of AC2's servers combined. Heck, almost in the entire AC2 game.

4. To all the lurkers out there, what do you think about this.... after this brand new, ultra-modern game, has now been out for 1 year! OMG! OMG!

Those that can't play every day, playing just weekends, pop in now and again etc etc, probably another 6000 -7000

These players are already factored in. Aka players go back and forth from being "weekend only" players. Technically there are 4 weekends aka to factor in the different timezones around the world. So this information you stated is moot. When it is Mon-Tues where you live it is Sat-Sun somewhere else. When it is Wed-Thurs where you live, it is Sat-Sun somewhere else, etc.. etc... When it is the weekend where you live, Sat-Sun... it is the week day somewhere else Mon-Fri... etc... etc...

Such utter crap, do you really have so liitle idea of the world! The MAXIMUM time difference from GMT (London) which is the central point for time is 12 hours + or - ... you can have a different day but only but up to 12 hours into that day. Or can you pleaes tell me if it is Thursday where you are, where in the world it will be Sunday?

Alright, I stand corrected about 1 of the above 3 examples I mentioned. It cannot be the weekend in another country if it is Thurs where you live.

But it can be the weekend in another country if it is a weekday where you live. It can be the weekend where you live, and a weekday in other countries ..... aka..... not all players who play on weekends are all playing on weekends.

This alone almost cuts your "20,000" total in almost half. Leaving you with 13,000 accouts going by YOUR total roughl guess. Which is pretty close to my postings of 6,000 accounts (if all players played an avarage of 12 hrs), and my postings of 12,000 accounts (if al players played an avarage of 6 hours.)

Kinda proven you wrong with this ASSUMPTION. Nuff said.

As I stated just now, like it or not, not all players around the world who play on weekends are actually playing on weekends. It is possible for it to be the weekend in another country and a weekday where you live. It is possible for it to be a weekday where you live and the weekend in another country.

As you said you "kinda" proved me wrong. You did correct me on 1 of my 3 examples.

Ah well around these figures anyway.

2 things, it's actually about Turbine, not either of these games independantly - Turbine are the company supporting/owning these games and it is their P&L that will determine the future of either of these titles, not your assumptions.

Look at the left hand menu. Do you see AC and AC2 listed in the same forum? No. This is about AC2 not AC aka AC1.

SONY has 4 seperate games games in the left side menu. Does that mean EQ, EQ2, SWG, and PS, are ALL super-successfull? LOL. Does it mean SWG is just as successfull as EQ? Or PS is just as successfull as EQ? EQ has its own forums. SWG has its own forums. EQ2 has its own forums, etc...

MicroSoft HAD 4 seperate games also... AC, AC2, Mythica, and "Sigil". AC so far is the only successfull one. Does it mean all 4 are successfull?

Each seperate game relies on ITSELF to keep itself alive. If the game is incomplete, does not have the features advertised in it, is full of too many bugs, is unplayable...

...is d-y-i-n-g it will flop..... no matter if the same parent company owns 10 other successfull MMORPGs.

Further example is Ea aka Electronic Arts. If I'm not mistaken, they also owned MCO as well as the uber-successfull UO. MCO was dying, even though UO was performing well. Does it mean both games are doing well? MCO got put out of its misery.

Also, I read in another post on here that AC was just managing to get 1000 players on it's busiest servers, so unless you can tell me they have 20 servers running I fail to see how your figures are correct (yes you assumed again), and considering a large portion of these are bots, the active player base is in fact far smaller that you suggest. But I am not here to go into the in's and out's of AC1

It does not matter how many players are now online in AC. It has been out for years and years. AC is a proven, bona fid, successfull MMORPG.

It also does not matter if half the players are really multi accounts, bots, etc.... each seperate account is still being paid for. Just like in EQ in which many players have 2 - 8 multi accounts aka out of the 400,000 accounts roughly 200,000 are seperate individuale players. But all 400,000 accounts are still being paid for. From the buisness end, SONY, and any other company, could care less if 1,000 players are playing 100 multi accounts. They are still getting a profit.

AC1 cost roughly 5 million to make (AC1's game engine is on par with EQ's game engine.)

Sweeeping assumption unless you can post proof of TURBINE's development costs. not assumptions and associations.

It is called an Educated Guess. Anyone who has played AC and EQ see the obvious proof that both game engines are on par with each other. Since EQ has publically posted in the press how much it cost to develope their game, it is very easy to make an Educated Guess how much AC cost.

AC2 cost 15 million (very conservative estimate) to 20 million (my personal estimate) to 25 million to make (liberal estimate). This is comparing AC2's game engine to EQ2, SWG, and to the recently released cost for MYTHICA. Mythica ahh yes, Parent company MicroCrap...errr... MicroSoft's other modern, brand new, MMORPG that... floped, tanked, failed. MicroSoft on purpose asorbed the 20 million Mythica cost it. Just like it on purpose asorbed the roughly 20 million AC2 cost it.

Again an assumption ... can you post proof of TURBINE's development costs. Again you have shown the development cost ... regardless of what it was means nothing (due to MS absorbing it), as AC and AC2 are run by Turbine, not Microsoft.

Go to the Mythica forums. Either at Mythica.com , or any other major game site (sorry MMORPG.com your a nice site, but your not major. ) The proof is all over the place how much Mytica cost. Heck, ask any Mythica fanboy/fangirl and they will not hesitate to tell you.

And yes of course I have shown the development cost.

And I am glad you see the light and fully agree with me MicroSoft asorbed the costs of developing the flop AC2. And that Turbine is now getting a "free" MMORPG.

I will go on to say this:

Because Turbine is now getting a free MMORPG, it IS possible Turbine has a CHANCE to turn AC2 around. Turbine has roughly 6 months to do this ..... because once the heavy hitters of the next generation release, AC2 won't just be getting its A-- kicked around by OLD mmorpgs.

I am going to for now on not use the conservative estimate due to the fact MicroSoft recently released the cost for Mythica, which has a game engine on par with AC2.

Totally moot point.

LOL! Now you are in denial. Mythica and AC2 are both of the same generation. Almost developed side by side. The costs for Mythica have been released. Tooo easy to make an Educated Guess how much AC2 cost to develope.

Thus that is 20 million in investment money that has to be paid by the current roughly 12,000 accounts in AC2.

Again incorrect, Turbine have made their agreement with MS and will have complete control over AC, AC2, the entire franchises lock stock and barrel and will have this transition complete by the end of this year. The paying of the development cost does not effect you, me or any player and the deal Turbine have struck with MS is between them.

   Even though you failed to correct me here, I will correct myself. MicroSoft asorbed either all, or most of the 20 million it cost to develope AC2. Just like it asorbed the 20 million it cost to develope Mythica.

In a way, AC2's horrible failure, which is MicroSoft's failure..... is a HUGE PLUS for Turbine. Turbine gets a free MMORPG. This means even if AC2 were to have 7 TOTAL players online at the same time, and 30 total accounts, Turbine could keep AC2 "alive" for years and years heheheh.

The question now is, can the roughly 6,000 to 12,000 accounts AC2 have play for overhead costs? The costs of running the game itself each month?

Ahh but there is more! Ever since release, AC2 has been steadily LOSING accounts. How much longer will AC2 have roughly 6,000 to 12,000 accounts? We will have to wait for AlphaMasterbsr to post updates next month and compare them to what he posted for this month.

All MMORPG's lose accounts after launch, sad but true but they ALL do. I have posted the correct figures above so if Alpha wants to post the same fine, but you can work on those above as accurate.

No MMORPG has EVER lost 90% of its players 1 year after launch. Not even AO, or WW2Online. AO lost roughly 50% of all players until roughly 6 months after launch when Funcom admitted there was a horrible memory leak and corrected it. WW2Online also lost roughly 50% of all players roughly the first 6 months of release for the same reason AC2 lost 90% of its players - WW2Online was just plain incompleated. The difference between WW2Online and AC2 is AC2 was even MORE incompleated.

1 year after release AO turned itself around and became a successfull MMORPG. 1 year after release WW2Online just barely turned itself around. It is on its way to becomeing a successfull MMORPG... but it's going to be a bit of a while.

Last, it does not matter how small AC2's DEV team is, or how small the company is, it does not stop the fact AC2 is a multi-million $$$$ game engine, multi-million $$$$ MMORPG. And actually Turbine is right now not a small company. They are an avarage size company. You want an example of small? Funcom is a small comany.

This really does make me laugh ... mulit million $$$$ game engine they developed for free! Result.

    No it was not free. It was "free". What really makes everyone laugh is because of AC2's horrible failure - that's what forced MicroSoft to asorb the loss and sell it back to Turbine.

While AC2 was in development it was not free. Both MS and Turbine were partners together planning on making a profit. Planning on recouping the millions invested into making AC2.

Heck, during the ENTIRE first year of AC2's release it was not free for Turbine. It was recently that MS decided to get rid of the flop AC2.

And the reason I mentioned the size of the company is to show they are making a profit. If Turbine were losing money (which is what you suggest MUST happen if a game has less than 100,000 subsribers) then the future of that game would certainly be in jeopardy, but htis just isn't the case.

Again, size of company does not matter LOL. If 2 people make a 20 million $$$$ game and it does not bring back the 20 million it fails.

Same if 100 people make a 20 million $$$ game. The investment $$$$ pays the salaries of everyone making the game during the 1-3 years it is in development. Because obviously the game is not released yet.

EQ2 for example has been in Development for years. It is costing roughly 20 million to make. The people who are working on it are being paid even though the game is not released yet. The investment money is paying their salaries.

Please stop posting your usual innane rantings about how doomed the game is, get over the fact that you don't play any more, move onto another game and stop flaming in this forum. If you are unhappy, deal with it.

*sigh*
You have forgotten my points for posting here.
- I have never flamed in this forum, nor in any forum, during my past 5 years of posting in forums on the internet. A flame, or flamer, is one who posts with the sole purpose of causing trouble without any info backing up what they post.
A flame is a flame ... if you are saying "It's crap" it doesn;t matter whether you use 2 words or 200 words, it's still a flame and the regularity you post your same reasons it's flame spamming too! Plus all your information is assumption on the main, or mis-interpreting what you have read on a forum somewhere!
Now you are in denial. No problem. I post here to make sure everyone else is informed about AC2. You ARE informed about it. You have on purpose made your informed choice to give AC2 your hard earned money and irreplaceable time, after being aware of everything surrounding AC2.
*High fives AlphaMasterbsr*

So ... all your evidence is based on one post from Alpha which you managed to mi-understand anyway ... way to go!

AlphaMasterbsr posted more than one post LOL!

I get my evidence from when I played,

(for example I know for an absolute fact AC2's accounts have plummeted because I was there when it had 50,000 accounts, and when it had 12,000 players online at the same time last summer... aka roughly 24,000 accounts.

I can thus compare the numbers I saw, to what current AC2 players now post.)

from the press, from magazines, as well as from what current AC2 players post... not just from AlphaMasterbsr.

- AC2 has lost over 90% of its players = a doomed game. Maybe not to you, but we will let the lurkers decide for theirselves LOL!

You were a lurker for how many months? You left some 7 or 8 months ago proclaiming the game is dead, but look, it's still here, going OK and making money ... why would that be doomed?

   The game IS a flop. LOL. Yes it is still around, NOT doing OK but doing even worse. When I left there were 12,000 players online at the same time. Now there is roughly half of that amount online at the same time.

During its first year of release, it did NOT make money that is why MS got rid of it.

Now it has new owners who got it for "free". Now until roughly 6 months into the future or at most by the end of 2004..... AC2 and Turbine are in a very unique and unusual position. Turbine in a way gets a 2nd shot at AC2 since MS asorbed the cost of making this flop.

I will even say right now, present time, all the way to 6 months from now.... It IS possible for Turbine during the next 6 months to turn AC2 around. But time is running out. Time will tell... Time will tell.....

Oh and on a side note ... it's interesting that if you played the game for 8 or 9 months or so, why you only ever managed to get screenshots from the Beta, interesting, Gonna be drawing conclusions from this,but I'll save that for later.

My site that hosts the screenshots allows a finite number of pictures. I do have much newer in game screenshots, but I choose to use up the space they would take up... with old and new screens from better games. Heck, at any time I could go back to playing AC2 instantly. (Fiber Optic connection at work would let me download it in minutes. Burn it to CD. Bring it home and play.)

For me it's not a matter of money. Money is very easy to re-make and get back. It is my time. I'm too busy playing AO and other games. And I'm ready to check out the tons of new modern next generation MMORPGs about to be released. But like you said, it is a sidenote. Not a mainnote.

The originator of this thread wants to know about AC2. Not from 1 person, or 3, but from everyone. You, me, AlphaMasterbsr, and everyone else are everyone.

AC2 is not a financial success, nor is anywhere close to being a success. It has roughly 6,000 to 12,000 accounts in an industry where having 50,000 accounts is looked on as having a chance to be successfull and 100,000 accounts is a bona fid success.

What a pile of cack, a success for the developers and the players is whether the game makes money. If it does, updates happen and the world survives and the dev's and players are happy - if it doesn;t it dies and they all move on. As things stand this is as good a success as any out there, just with smaller numbers.

   LOL! Instead of refuting my evidence, you semi-cuss, and call my information names.

And thank you for agreeing with me, even though you hesitate to agree. "... just with smaller numbers". More than small numbers. With virtually no numbers. Boy, just wait until the onslaught of heavy hitters from the same next generation as AC2 get released. All Tolkien-themed/D&D Themed ... direct competition.

- I did stop playing AC2 along with 90% of the rest of its players because I, and they, saw there are better MMORPGs out there (including AC1).
Hmmm, 90% of their players ... end of Beta was it? and please tell me what (as you incorrectly call it 'Tolkien based') games have come out since ... Horizons! rofl.
   AC2 had roughly 50,000 accounts during the first month of release. Then it shot downhill. Roughly 8 months ago it had 24,000 accounts. Right now it has roughly 6,000 to 12,000 accounts. That is a loss of more than 1/6 of the entire player base.
Many hardcore AC2 super-fans (aka sadomachochists) want to claim AC2 had 100,000 accounts at release. That would make the amount of players lost even worse.
Notice when I said "there are better MMORPGs out there" I was talking about ALL of them.... and for an example I mention AC1.
Other Tolkien-Themed/Dungeons & Dragons-Themed MMORPGs:
- Ultima Online
- EverQuest
- Asheron's Call
- Heck... the Realm
- Heck, even Runescape.
- Even Astonia 3
- Dark Age of Camelot
- Lineage
- Yes, Horizions also. But it just came out. The verdict is not in yet until 1 year from now.
- I continue posting here, and in other AC2 forums at other sites, to make sure all lurkers, and possible new players, are throughly informed about AC2 before deciding to spend their hard earned money and irreplaceable time on it.
So you post on the official forums do you ? or at AC2HQ, or Fallen Kingdoms? or Tumeroks.com? Nope! These are the boards where players post and I have NEVER seen you posting at any of these, you seem to lurk here spouting your version of the world to a limited audience, I mean damn even my ally website has 50 times the amount of posts that you get here!
I did post at AC2HQ, and FAllen Kingdoms. I said what I had to say. No one refuted what I said.
I also posted at *ahem* stratics.com . Said what I had to say. BTW, imagine 100 AlphaMasterbsr guys posting and you will have an idea what the AC2 forums are like at stratics.
Nothing can be refuted.
I recently found this here site. So I'm now here posting because... I never posted at this site before.
But do not worry, after 6 months to 1 year I'll likely move on to the next new site I find. I'll also, along with the 90% of AC2 players who have long ago left, be busy playing the new MMORPGs that will be kicking AC2's butt... just like how the current OLD mmorpg's are Now kicking AC2's butt.
- I also want to make sure AC2 does not "get quietly swept under the rug". Aka make sure it forever gets held up in front of the industry to make sure another AC2 never happens again. Heck I may have even succeeded RIP Mythica !!!!!!

Ah now we get to the crux of it ... it's your 1 person campaign against games you don't want to see succeed, damn Xplororor you really are one of the saddest individuals I have ever seen posting on any board! You single handedly caused the downfall of Mythica by saying AC2 was doomed ... damn there is no smiley anywhere near funny enough right now!

LOL! I'm a consumer. The internet is just another form of word of mouth advertising. Since the first buisness was opened thousands of years ago, WoMA has always been the most powerfull form of advertising.

I post and present proofs, facts, and information. You and others are free to refute it. And have tried to refute it. Now it is up to OTHERS to make their own informed decision based on what they have heard from me, you, and others, on if they want to spend their hard earned money and irreplaceable time playing AC2.

This being the internet gives WoMA even more power than before. Heck yeah it IS possible for 1 person nowadays to have influence enough to make the suites and ties at a major company start shaking their knees. Like a virus WoMA spreads across the internet.

I've seen and experienced first hand WoMA working in Real Life before the Internet was "officially made available" by Prez Bush Sr. Ever hear of Lowes theatres? It has long been owned by mega corporation SONY. Armies of "all-American Apple pie patriotic suburban Americans" used WoMA to get SONY to take its name off all the Lowes Theaters and put the name Lowes back on. (I agree in the end this was misdirected use of some NICE power... but that's "Freedom Fries" loving Americans for ya... lol.)

I've seen and experienced first hand WoMA working in Real Life with the internet. You think YOU have criticized SWG hard? Or anyone else at this site and other sites have crticized SWG hard? LOL.

I forced the DEVs from SONY, and SWG to post many times to answer directly after making petitions that got signed by hundreds of posters within hours. I even got a few personal Emails directly from them heheheh. Because I didn't "Flame" or "troll". I posted facts, proofs, information, and dared it all to be refuted. (When I say I posted info, I posted ALL info, including info they didn't like.)

I did the same with EQ, EQ2, and recently with UXO and Sigil (I got a very well known game DEV to personally respond to me in the forums and answer all my questions LOL.)

Other posters have done the same thing, and even MORE than I have done, with the power of the internet. Other posters and me, know it is NOT a "1 man campaigne/crusade". Other posters and me know it simply takes 1 man to make a small snowball/virus/spark and "they will come" aka WoMA takes over.

How long have YOU been into the internet eh? You should know by now the power of the internet.

As well as the power of WoMA.

BTW, I said, and I quote myself "I may have even succeeded." I'm not the only one posting what I am posting... on these forums, as well as the many other sites on the internet.

iddmitri · February 2004

Since Turbine Entertainment bought AC2 back from Microsoft, game improved very well.

∙name: EViLD0G
∙clan: [EXE]
∙playing: EQ, SIMS, AC, AC2, DAoC, FFXI, RS
∙planning: DnL, WoW

Lebowski · February 2004

Originally posted by dmitri84
Since Turbine Entertainment bought AC2 back from Microsoft, game improved very well.

Yes. And since developers have balanaced all classes, monthly patches are full of high quality content.

When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.

Entico · February 2004

Did you see their new stance on enforcing CoC ?

Anyone still read x posts ?

==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it

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