yup, its good to see the game is growing. slowly, but surely. altough I predict Archlord is going to give it a punch or two, the target audiance is the same.
Originally posted by WARCRYtm I doubt it, archworld is a bit known at this site but overall no one knows his existence.We will have cronicles 5 at the same time arcworld comes out.
I don't think so. Codemasters travelled the world to promote Archlord. its been in close to every major game magazine and website and at E3 and is currently under best selling at gamestop...and thats just pre-orders.
Yeah I heard of Archlord, it is interesting but I dunno...I still don't think I will play it. Even got emails from it since I signed up with Code M when I did RF beta.
Yeah, I also noticed that huge jump in player population...lol...what happened? I recruited a 3 new clannies these last 4 days. Also you are right, some more bots came in, but if you go to new player towns there are loads of noobs running around. Was L2 NA just released to some other country or something, lol? It is weird, but nice at the same time.
L2 has had slow steady growth in the U.S. since launch, you just don't hear about it here on MMORPG.com. This community is very anti-Korean, not much objectivity where the subject is concerned.
The game is loosing subs at an alarming rate in Asia though.
EDIT
actually according to the NCSoft Q2 2006 report, U.S. subs have dropped by about 6k but concurrency has remained about the same. Subs in China and Korea have also dropped a ton this year so far.
Its pretty obvious that NC needs to get on with making some games, they have have been dabbling around in 3rd party publication in the U.S. to long and have neglecticed developing their own titles. Now they are going to have a serious lag in titles between the release of L2 and L3, Aion and the other online titles like exsteel, Dungeon runners and soccer fury. Its to bad also, most of the games NC has published have been disappointments in terms of subs and profit in the U.S.
Guild Wars was a flop in Asia and is currently operating at a loss
City of Heros looks like its only running in the U.S. and Europe now (looks like they closed the few Asian servers they had.
We don't even need to go into Auto Assault since NC did a write off on the game for something along the lines of 10 million dollars. (page 5)
Well its no surprise. there first was a time where RF Online took a beat in Lineage 2's subscriber base in korea, altough this didn't last long and RF Online's subscriber base dropped from 1 million subscribers to 500k subscribers. Then WoW came and took another bite out of L2's subscriber base. lasts news I received is that the current hot shots in Korea are Cabal online and Archlord, altough Archlord is free to play with a cash shop (in korea, that is). if NCsoft doesn't come out with new titles soon, then they will seriously lose the market they used to control. look at the line up, soccer fury, dungeon runners, Tabula Rasa. all nice titles ofcourse, but are people actually waiting for games like that? the only title that looks intresting is Aion (and L3, but its going to take at least another 3 years), but Aion is very diffrent from korean games, and there is no guarantee the game will do just as good as Lineage.
Whats no surprise is that L2 is losing subs, its been out awhile and thats just how it goes for MMO's. They peak then die. It didn't help that WoW undercut sub fees in Asia by 20%. But Blizzard knew what it was doing and knew the real action in MMO's is in Asia.
The new titles, well all we can do is speculate at this point. I imagine something like SoccerFury could do well, online sportsgames have a larger player base then MMO's. Soccer is also the game of choice for most of the planet. (only in the U.S. is soccer unpopular but NC has already said that there will be no U.S. release for Soccer fury)
Dungeon Runners could be the "correct" version of DDO. Also keep in mind that GW failed in Asia and they are still looking to do an instanced MMO.
Exsteel from what I've read will probably do well. Its giant mechs fighting, who doesn't like that???
Tabula Rasa appears to be a "jinxed" title lol. There have been so many setbacks and probelems/revisions, Im surprised they haven't given up on it. Also there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of anticipation for it. On top of that, its been developed for the western market which is pretty much a death sentence for an MMO.
What I find more interesting about NC's new lineup is they are not targeting the western market any longer. They are focusing on their home territory with a few english versions to support. From a business standpoint, that is a very sound decission since the North American market is a wash anyway.
The one that puzzles me the most is Aion. If they are working on L3 why this deversion to Aion? I would think more focus on one project like L3 would be wiser. We have seen what happens to companies that take on to many projects (Turbine and SOE) they end up f**king all of them up.
It just shows, overall, MMO's are still a developing idea that could end up not working out. If the average MMO only has a peak lifespan of approximately two to three years with a highly veriable subscription acceptance, how much time/money and resouces is it worth putting into a game that has a very limited lifespan (profit potential)?
That profit potential could be so huge it may be worth it. L2 still disappoints me because it could be so much better.
They have a nice system in the chronicles, but they need to add more features that actually work, they add a radio station yet they leave a completely useless lottery system feature in the game?
Hell, all they have to do, is spend 30 seconds changing the moneythat can be won from lottery from 90,000 or whatever to 90,000,000. That would add another feature, i know it's n ot much, but could take 1 hour of someone's work.
I think MMORPG's are very profitable, and this one can be insanely profitable if they continue to add features, GOOD QUESTS, good diversions from grind/PvP. Add a new class. I would think a dwarf magic user would be kind of cool.
Also, I think NCsoft makes mediocre games because the launch of a game is probably the most profitable point. If they can spend 20m total advertizing and making AA and in the first 3 months ti gives them 30m. Then hey that's pretty good profit.
I just think they should cut their crappy games out, focus all their energy on tweaking L2, come out with new content, new castles, new features and it would probably do better for them. Furthermore, if they focused on L2 and made a positive name for themselves, then they would end up getting more money in the long run through brand recognition.
This game should destroy WoW, it should absolutely own it. WoW is like a one night fling. It's great and exciting until you wake up the next morning and kick the slut out. WoW, is like race to lvl 60 and find out to get top gear you need to raid for hours at a time in a PvP setting which is completely useless as you can just gain points by wearing green items if you wanted to. Then 2-3 months into it, you realize the game is useless as getting top gear doesn't really help you that much, you get bored and quit. No staying power whatsoever.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Well Cryo, the profits of L2 are down from last quarter but it is still pulling a very good money if you look at the report I am in no way advocating L2 is dead or dieing. That will take some more time. If the current trend continues, that might be happening.
How it ties together is this, Blizzard has shaken up the Asian market, not with a superior game but with its PRICING. Please read the article. Also L2 has alot more competition out there over nowadays. It never worked out here so never mind any U.S. comparisons.
The key word you use is "potential". I agree that L2 is a much better game then WoW but it is much LESS accessible then WoW. Generally speaking L2 draws and keeps very focused and serious minded players. Players who are highly GOAL driven. Although you can play L2 casually, you can not have a "casual attitude". Everything counts and everything matters. This harms the game to some extent IMHO. It does not draw the RP crowd nor the casual "fun" crowd nor the depth seeking crowd. (although L2 possesses all of these elements, they are overshadowed by the brutal economy and grind)
The grind is a tad overdone. The economy is very overdone. Yes, its totally 100% player controlled but without some measure of control it has gotten way out of hand. Added new castles and areas isn't going to fix L2's problems, its just going to keep the current base happy. The economy is the base cause of L2's problems.
The game is a potental "blank canvas" waiting to be filled in, it has a huge beautiful seamless gameworld, great graphics and awesome music. Now it needs purpose, story and heart. However NC has more or less whacked the CS/GM dept in the U.S. so thats not going to happen.
A cut scene storyline like FFXI or GW would work wonders for this game. A one time per character, quest driven/story driven boss instanced adventure line would bring this game to life. A revision of the XP tables and a rethinking of the economy would fix this game (to include drop rates, bound items, restricted items - class/race, and many other things that would help keep the economy from spiriling out of control like it has.) AND a revision of the adena in general, I hate working with such HUGE frickin amounts. Throw a silver piece and a gold piece in, why do we need to look at this penny sized currency? Someone mint a damn dollar bill already.
The game doesn't need to be WoWified but it does need some rethinking. Like any other "living world" game.
The question is this: is it to late?
No MMO has ever had a rebound from a decline and experienced siginficant regrowth.
The pattern of the MMO lifecycle continues to apply. Launch (most growth) Stablization (peak subs, lasting a variable period of time) then Decline (stablizing with the core players) then eventually dieing off (core players dropping off) NO MMO has ever experience a second period of growth.
About the grind, I think it is nasty. But it isn't too bad. Just a small revision would be warranted. I'd basically just add 10% xp to every mob and that's that. Just a small 10% bonus. Or I'd make RB's give a bit more xp or make quests actually worthwhile.
I like the penny system. The gold/silver system in wow is nice, but i like working in the penny system . I like the way the adena is. I feel uber carrying around 40m adena as opposed to 40 gold in WoW lol.
The economy is bad and that is very true, as you see, I am creating my own in-game businses just to afford my gear. In all honesty, I devote at least 30% of my playing time to the economy if not more. I'd say 30% to the economy, 30% to the clan, 40% for leveling and only 80% of that 40% is actually efficient due to bots.
I've played 3 months and i play a lot so my char is lvl 61, but i know for sure, i'd be close to the 70's right now if I didn't have to worry about the economy and I could afford A grade.
Right now, I hvae full tallum set without the helm and +6tsu*sls duals . I also have lots of adena invested in, a full C grade dwarf too. So i got my cash. I had 30m AA at lvl 40 and now i'm worth 230m two months later.
I work hard for my money, then again, i'm an addict and I like the economical aspect. With my business, I'm supplying people with items and I wonder how they get their money. I think if a person isn't spending at least 30% of their playing time trying to get money then something is up. Of course some are lucky and make their money via OE/Crafting, but I make my money by buy low/sell high and now i'm running a business so I like the economy.
I think NCsoft could help the economy by having quests that are very long, but actually give good drops, someuthign like twice as long as BH quest, but yet gives a C grade item and what not. I think if they want to maximize their profit they could do a few things.
1. Ease the grind slightly, not significant, almost like you notice it but it's just a tad more than negligble. 2. Increase quest rewards significantly in terms of loot, make better quests. Increase the adena that drops from mobs by 5-10%, lower the stores. Fishing is fun, but perhaps hvae professions, like in WoW. That was fun.
The thing about NCsoft is that they waste their time with mediocre crap, drop that stuff, stick with L2. Make it he best MMO out there. I saw archlord.
Sorry, but with 3 classes, the graphics look like WoW, the stupid popup when you hit something is lame, I think the game look terrible. There's no way archlord should succeed, it just doesn't look appealing to me.
But Lineage 2 does, i just get annoyed at this game, it's like having a basketball team, having Michael Jordan in his prime and keeping him on the bench.
Another thing about the economy is that I like the fact that it is difficult to get your gear, however, everyone has top A gear usually at lvl 61 due to ebaying and what not, so it doesn't even matter anyway lol.
I don't think the economy is so bad, it's the fact that NCsoft allows the botting. The few massive bot "companies" on each server dictate the prices usually and the legit players follow to maximize their profit. The economy does need work but it would be okay if NCsoft weren't so stupid and could make a game that wouldn't rely on bots. They have a gold mine and they're not even using it.
I think the point of the economy was to promote group play and clan organization to gear people up, but the problem came up that bots overran the game and people kept ebaying to afford the game. Next thing you know, the problem is, as it is.
i wish NCsoft could just ban bots and charge $1000 fine and that way they can ban the bots and still maintain their quarterly revenue goal. But of course they won't do that.
Also, Torak, if you ever come back to L2. Come to Hindemith server, I'll gear you up from 1 to 78. If you really want to role play and have fun, you can have a position in my distribution company and that way you can feel like you "worked, earned, were employed" for your gear. You'll have top NG at lvl 1, Top OE D at lvl 20, Top C at lvl 40, Top B at lvl 52 and if I'm rich enough, top A at lvl 61 , don't even dream of S grade .
Currently i have about 35m in cash and about 40m in investment items i need to sell, i have suppliers and I have buyers and I have a few people working for me. After the event week starst again, my corp will unveil an unsealing service. It will be the first of its kind. So if you come back, come back to Hindemith, email me on these forums or find me in-game. Also, I'll make sure you get into my clan/alliance.
Next monday, I hope to have 50m in cash and a tallum helm. So i need to keep cracking away at brokering deals and grabbing my commission.
Cryomatrix
Qais - lvl 61 glad on Hindemith
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
One of the things that we need to remember is that games like WoW really don’t speak to those people who would be hardcore L2 players. I realize that many players left L2 for WoW but they would have gone anyway. Yes some have come back but I really do believe that the die hard WoW player is different. It is more of a casual “fun” game. There are many good things in it ( I personally think their quest system is better and less tedious than the L2 system).
But most die hard WoW players are probably not going to enjoy the getting ganked and losing several hours worth of xp system. It is my opinion that WoW players want to sign on, have some fun, sign off. Losing xp or dropping items is not in the cards for these players. And no reason why it should be.
L2 is for PvP players. Whether the system is perfect or not is another discussion, but it really does speak to the more hardcore PvP player.
I also agree.. Tabula Rasa is a doomed title and there are only a few people jazzed about it. As far as NC doing other types of games, I don’t think it’s that they do other types of themed games as that they might not always get it right. I remember when I first saw Auto Assault I thought it was lackluster. Someone wrote “what could be more desirable… fast cars and guns” (or something like it). However, it just seemed a bit “flat” to me. And lo and behold, they just weren’t able to pull it off.
I’m very curious to see if L3 is “better” though the game I am currently eyeing is Aion. The faction based PvP might be a bit more my speed. I really don’t like the politics in L2 (though I think it’s a really fascinating addition to the gameplay) as I play games to have fun, not to whine about it on the boards… he said/she said, etc. It just gets tiring for me.
who knows what future expansions (not called chronicles, called something else… bad marketing decision by NC Soft as now many people think that they are no longer adding future content.) will hold.
But we will see… there are things I really like about L2, so who knows what future expansions (not called chronicles, called something else… bad marketing decision by NC Soft as now many people think that they are no longer adding future content.) will hold.
I do think that Archlord is aimed at the same audience as the L2 player… more so than WoW, so that will be interesting. I realize that C5 will be hitting when Archlord Beta is underway but I wonder how many people are jazzed about C5. I know I’m not though I do agree that things needed to be balanced more (which is really what C5 brings).
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
See I love L2 PvP even though I am not hardcore PvPer. I also love the graphics, music, clan system, and yes...belive it or not even the class system.
The thing that I think L2 is really lacking is PvE content. Basically you just wack at mobs all day. There isn't a kickass quest that would give you a meaningful reward such as someone else stated, a NICE C grade weapon.
Adding some nice cut scenes for certain things would be sweet, except since there is no instances I dunno what your character would be doing, or worse what someone else is doing to your character while you are watching that cut scene.
Even if the grind didn't change, if it was more fun and quest rewarded you more than more ppl would like it, and at the same time it would level out the mass farming. Cause I am doubting a automated 9 man party could really go run a quest that is well designed.
Quests shouldn't be a set back. They should help you out more than the normal grind. The normal grind is there if you just want to make some fast exp. So technically you could possibly lvl faster grinding, but not much faster. So you kill 500 mobs in 3 hours and get 1 million experience, and u complete a quest in 3 hours and it gives you like 900 thousand experience, or a good item.
Basically it just lacks PvE content. PvP is the best! Design is the best! Graphics is the best! IMO this game has everything better than any other MMO out there, except for pve content. A boost in the PvE content would make this game by far the greatest one ever.
My post suck lol, I rationalize them far to much and add in factual threads to back them up, on top of it I'm a smartass lol. I don't give the reader enough room to maneuver, I hammer my point far to strongly...I find it all very therapeutic
Anyway, I was thinking of a few things that L2 could do to start things in the right direction or reinvent itself...
Like you said, adjust XP by about 10% and remove the level walls. (built in XP barriers at particular points, if they haven't already)
Story based quest system. From the moment you first log in there should by a cut-scene with a mission attached to it. This would be you tutorial quest. The end reward would be a random piece of top NG gear. This would repeat itself at every 5 levels (so levels 1, 5, 10, 15, 20....) Not all rewards necessarily need to be a piece of gear. (some rewards could be a custom or one of a kind bound item based on class/race)
The content or path of the quest would be based on race and class so there would need to be alot of them.
Rather then those aweful class transfer quest which are little more then an endurance test in patience. A dymanic (cut scene) with an instanced boss to face adventure type quest should be put in. (group or solo based either would work) With a "special" reward at the end. (something that binds)
In addition to these quest, a complete overhaul of what they have now. Kill task are for WoW players Minic maybe FFXI style quest and task.
The point is at every level you would have at least one or two full, deep, quality quest going on.
PvP changes - rather then item drop, an alignment system could be developed. Basically we have that but its in a very base form.
Killing other players does 2 things. A) gives you a physical reward like the players head as a trophy (more on what to do with it later) slides you alignment to either the possitive or negitive. (good or evil)
At some point put in a bounty system, players getting the head of a "mark" get a reward. (money or mats) This would need much more thought. WHo gives or takes the bounties I'm not sure on. NPC's or players?
Sorry, something needs to be done with the economy. Something drastic. Just increasing drop rates isn't going to help. The entire thing needs an overhaul. Not to sure how to fix that. Its f*ckup as it stands so whatever could world.
The point of this is to take the focus off the economy and put it into playing the game.
Basically, I believe if a game wants to break out of the current "lifecycle of MMO's it really needs to reinvent itself when it hits it's decline. Not like SOE tried, ripping the game completely apart. But in a way that address the games problems and builds its weaknesses. Marketed correctly, any game could revitalize itself. Core mechanics should be left intact unless obviously flawed or broken (like the conomy in L2). 100% player driven economies are a nice idea BUT even in RL no economy runs unchecked and totally market driven. The governments of countries regulate their economies! These same type of relationship needs to exsist between the game company and the players. There need to be controls.
What the current trend in MMO is once the game begins to die off, resourses are usually deverted to other new projects. Budgets are cut and the game withers and dies.
If games want to survive after they hit their decline, they should enter a period of "re-development" then re-release under the SAME title (with a new subtitle or something). Almost ALL products do this. That would mean MORE resourses and money. Its never been tried in MMO's but seems to work well with almost every other type of product.
Something the MMO industry is completely lacking is MARKET RESEARCH. These guys make games on a whim and a prayer.
Quality control - does not exsist in Western game companies. This year alone has demostrated that western game companies clearly have their heads totally inserted in their asseswhen it comes to quality control.
Comments
Bots are the same wen the game started or less, because of the mega bans.
This is influx of new players.
Go to starter zones and see foy yourself
Yeah, I also noticed that huge jump in player population...lol...what happened? I recruited a 3 new clannies these last 4 days. Also you are right, some more bots came in, but if you go to new player towns there are loads of noobs running around. Was L2 NA just released to some other country or something, lol? It is weird, but nice at the same time.
Where u see growing results. I'm using this mmogchart site but last update is from begining of july.
US numbers are going up.
L2 has had slow steady growth in the U.S. since launch, you just don't hear about it here on MMORPG.com. This community is very anti-Korean, not much objectivity where the subject is concerned.
The game is loosing subs at an alarming rate in Asia though.
EDIT
actually according to the NCSoft Q2 2006 report, U.S. subs have dropped by about 6k but concurrency has remained about the same. Subs in China and Korea have also dropped a ton this year so far.
Its pretty obvious that NC needs to get on with making some games, they have have been dabbling around in 3rd party publication in the U.S. to long and have neglecticed developing their own titles. Now they are going to have a serious lag in titles between the release of L2 and L3, Aion and the other online titles like exsteel, Dungeon runners and soccer fury. Its to bad also, most of the games NC has published have been disappointments in terms of subs and profit in the U.S.
Guild Wars was a flop in Asia and is currently operating at a loss
City of Heros looks like its only running in the U.S. and Europe now (looks like they closed the few Asian servers they had.
We don't even need to go into Auto Assault since NC did a write off on the game for something along the lines of 10 million dollars. (page 5)
Check it ...
here
if NCsoft doesn't come out with new titles soon, then they will seriously lose the market they used to control. look at the line up, soccer fury, dungeon runners, Tabula Rasa. all nice titles ofcourse, but are people actually waiting for games like that? the only title that looks intresting is Aion (and L3, but its going to take at least another 3 years), but Aion is very diffrent from korean games, and there is no guarantee the game will do just as good as Lineage.
Whats no surprise is that L2 is losing subs, its been out awhile and thats just how it goes for MMO's. They peak then die. It didn't help that WoW undercut sub fees in Asia by 20%. But Blizzard knew what it was doing and knew the real action in MMO's is in Asia.
http://www.cesspit.net/drupal/storeroom/misc/wowfeecut.gif
The new titles, well all we can do is speculate at this point. I imagine something like SoccerFury could do well, online sportsgames have a larger player base then MMO's. Soccer is also the game of choice for most of the planet.
(only in the U.S. is soccer unpopular but NC has already said that there will be no U.S. release for Soccer fury)
Dungeon Runners could be the "correct" version of DDO. Also keep in mind that GW failed in Asia and they are still looking to do an instanced MMO.
Exsteel from what I've read will probably do well. Its giant mechs fighting, who doesn't like that???
Tabula Rasa appears to be a "jinxed" title lol. There have been so many setbacks and probelems/revisions, Im surprised they haven't given up on it. Also there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of anticipation for it. On top of that, its been developed for the western market which is pretty much a death sentence for an MMO.
What I find more interesting about NC's new lineup is they are not targeting the western market any longer. They are focusing on their home territory with a few english versions to support. From a business standpoint, that is a very sound decission since the North American market is a wash anyway.
The one that puzzles me the most is Aion. If they are working on L3 why this deversion to Aion? I would think more focus on one project like L3 would be wiser. We have seen what happens to companies that take on to many projects (Turbine and SOE) they end up f**king all of them up.
It just shows, overall, MMO's are still a developing idea that could end up not working out. If the average MMO only has a peak lifespan of approximately two to three years with a highly veriable subscription acceptance, how much time/money and resouces is it worth putting into a game that has a very limited lifespan (profit potential)?
They have a nice system in the chronicles, but they need to add more features that actually work, they add a radio station yet they leave a completely useless lottery system feature in the game?
Hell, all they have to do, is spend 30 seconds changing the moneythat can be won from lottery from 90,000 or whatever to 90,000,000. That would add another feature, i know it's n ot much, but could take 1 hour of someone's work.
I think MMORPG's are very profitable, and this one can be insanely profitable if they continue to add features, GOOD QUESTS, good diversions from grind/PvP. Add a new class. I would think a dwarf magic user would be kind of cool.
Also, I think NCsoft makes mediocre games because the launch of a game is probably the most profitable point. If they can spend 20m total advertizing and making AA and in the first 3 months ti gives them 30m. Then hey that's pretty good profit.
I just think they should cut their crappy games out, focus all their energy on tweaking L2, come out with new content, new castles, new features and it would probably do better for them. Furthermore, if they focused on L2 and made a positive name for themselves, then they would end up getting more money in the long run through brand recognition.
This game should destroy WoW, it should absolutely own it. WoW is like a one night fling. It's great and exciting until you wake up the next morning and kick the slut out. WoW, is like race to lvl 60 and find out to get top gear you need to raid for hours at a time in a PvP setting which is completely useless as you can just gain points by wearing green items if you wanted to. Then 2-3 months into it, you realize the game is useless as getting top gear doesn't really help you that much, you get bored and quit. No staying power whatsoever.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Well Cryo, the profits of L2 are down from last quarter but it is still pulling a very good money if you look at the report
I am in no way advocating L2 is dead or dieing. That will take some more time. If the current trend continues, that might be happening.
How it ties together is this, Blizzard has shaken up the Asian market, not with a superior game but with its PRICING. Please read the article. Also L2 has alot more competition out there over nowadays. It never worked out here so never mind any U.S. comparisons.
The key word you use is "potential". I agree that L2 is a much better game then WoW but it is much LESS accessible then WoW. Generally speaking L2 draws and keeps very focused and serious minded players. Players who are highly GOAL driven. Although you can play L2 casually, you can not have a "casual attitude". Everything counts and everything matters. This harms the game to some extent IMHO. It does not draw the RP crowd nor the casual "fun" crowd nor the depth seeking crowd. (although L2 possesses all of these elements, they are overshadowed by the brutal economy and grind)
The grind is a tad overdone. The economy is very overdone. Yes, its totally 100% player controlled but without some measure of control it has gotten way out of hand. Added new castles and areas isn't going to fix L2's problems, its just going to keep the current base happy. The economy is the base cause of L2's problems.
The game is a potental "blank canvas" waiting to be filled in, it has a huge beautiful seamless gameworld, great graphics and awesome music. Now it needs purpose, story and heart. However NC has more or less whacked the CS/GM dept in the U.S. so thats not going to happen.
A cut scene storyline like FFXI or GW would work wonders for this game. A one time per character, quest driven/story driven boss instanced adventure line would bring this game to life. A revision of the XP tables and a rethinking of the economy would fix this game (to include drop rates, bound items, restricted items - class/race, and many other things that would help keep the economy from spiriling out of control like it has.) AND a revision of the adena in general, I hate working with such HUGE frickin amounts. Throw a silver piece and a gold piece in, why do we need to look at this penny sized currency? Someone mint a damn dollar bill already.
The game doesn't need to be WoWified but it does need some rethinking. Like any other "living world" game.
The question is this: is it to late?
No MMO has ever had a rebound from a decline and experienced siginficant regrowth.
The pattern of the MMO lifecycle continues to apply. Launch (most growth) Stablization (peak subs, lasting a variable period of time) then Decline (stablizing with the core players) then eventually dieing off (core players dropping off) NO MMO has ever experience a second period of growth.
About the grind, I think it is nasty. But it isn't too bad. Just a small revision would be warranted. I'd basically just add 10% xp to every mob and that's that. Just a small 10% bonus. Or I'd make RB's give a bit more xp or make quests actually worthwhile.
I like the penny system. The gold/silver system in wow is nice, but i like working in the penny system
The economy is bad and that is very true, as you see, I am creating my own in-game businses just to afford my gear. In all honesty, I devote at least 30% of my playing time to the economy if not more. I'd say 30% to the economy, 30% to the clan, 40% for leveling and only 80% of that 40% is actually efficient due to bots.
I've played 3 months and i play a lot so my char is lvl 61, but i know for sure, i'd be close to the 70's right now if I didn't have to worry about the economy and I could afford A grade.
Right now, I hvae full tallum set without the helm and +6tsu*sls duals
I work hard for my money, then again, i'm an addict and I like the economical aspect. With my business, I'm supplying people with items and I wonder how they get their money. I think if a person isn't spending at least 30% of their playing time trying to get money then something is up. Of course some are lucky and make their money via OE/Crafting, but I make my money by buy low/sell high and now i'm running a business so I like the economy.
I think NCsoft could help the economy by having quests that are very long, but actually give good drops, someuthign like twice as long as BH quest, but yet gives a C grade item and what not. I think if they want to maximize their profit they could do a few things.
1. Ease the grind slightly, not significant, almost like you notice it but it's just a tad more than negligble.
2. Increase quest rewards significantly in terms of loot, make better quests. Increase the adena that drops from mobs by 5-10%, lower the stores. Fishing is fun, but perhaps hvae professions, like in WoW. That was fun.
The thing about NCsoft is that they waste their time with mediocre crap, drop that stuff, stick with L2. Make it he best MMO out there. I saw archlord.
Sorry, but with 3 classes, the graphics look like WoW, the stupid popup when you hit something is lame, I think the game look terrible. There's no way archlord should succeed, it just doesn't look appealing to me.
But Lineage 2 does, i just get annoyed at this game, it's like having a basketball team, having Michael Jordan in his prime and keeping him on the bench.
Another thing about the economy is that I like the fact that it is difficult to get your gear, however, everyone has top A gear usually at lvl 61 due to ebaying and what not, so it doesn't even matter anyway lol.
I don't think the economy is so bad, it's the fact that NCsoft allows the botting. The few massive bot "companies" on each server dictate the prices usually and the legit players follow to maximize their profit. The economy does need work but it would be okay if NCsoft weren't so stupid and could make a game that wouldn't rely on bots. They have a gold mine and they're not even using it.
I think the point of the economy was to promote group play and clan organization to gear people up, but the problem came up that bots overran the game and people kept ebaying to afford the game. Next thing you know, the problem is, as it is.
i wish NCsoft could just ban bots and charge $1000 fine and that way they can ban the bots and still maintain their quarterly revenue goal. But of course they won't do that.
Also, Torak, if you ever come back to L2. Come to Hindemith server, I'll gear you up from 1 to 78. If you really want to role play and have fun, you can have a position in my distribution company and that way you can feel like you "worked, earned, were employed" for your gear. You'll have top NG at lvl 1, Top OE D at lvl 20, Top C at lvl 40, Top B at lvl 52 and if I'm rich enough, top A at lvl 61
Currently i have about 35m in cash and about 40m in investment items i need to sell, i have suppliers and I have buyers and I have a few people working for me. After the event week starst again, my corp will unveil an unsealing service. It will be the first of its kind. So if you come back, come back to Hindemith, email me on these forums or find me in-game. Also, I'll make sure you get into my clan/alliance.
Next monday, I hope to have 50m in cash and a tallum helm. So i need to keep cracking away at brokering deals and grabbing my commission.
Cryomatrix
Qais - lvl 61 glad on Hindemith
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
One of the things that we need to remember is that games like WoW really don’t speak to those people who would be hardcore L2 players. I realize that many players left L2 for WoW but they would have gone anyway. Yes some have come back but I really do believe that the die hard WoW player is different. It is more of a casual “fun” game. There are many good things in it ( I personally think their quest system is better and less tedious than the L2 system).
But most die hard WoW players are probably not going to enjoy the getting ganked and losing several hours worth of xp system. It is my opinion that WoW players want to sign on, have some fun, sign off. Losing xp or dropping items is not in the cards for these players. And no reason why it should be.
L2 is for PvP players. Whether the system is perfect or not is another discussion, but it really does speak to the more hardcore PvP player.
I also agree.. Tabula Rasa is a doomed title and there are only a few people jazzed about it. As far as NC doing other types of games, I don’t think it’s that they do other types of themed games as that they might not always get it right. I remember when I first saw Auto Assault I thought it was lackluster. Someone wrote “what could be more desirable… fast cars and guns” (or something like it). However, it just seemed a bit “flat” to me. And lo and behold, they just weren’t able to pull it off.
I’m very curious to see if L3 is “better” though the game I am currently eyeing is Aion. The faction based PvP might be a bit more my speed. I really don’t like the politics in L2 (though I think it’s a really fascinating addition to the gameplay) as I play games to have fun, not to whine about it on the boards… he said/she said, etc. It just gets tiring for me.
who knows what future expansions (not called chronicles, called something else… bad marketing decision by NC Soft as now many people think that they are no longer adding future content.) will hold.
But we will see… there are things I really like about L2, so who knows what future expansions (not called chronicles, called something else… bad marketing decision by NC Soft as now many people think that they are no longer adding future content.) will hold.
I do think that Archlord is aimed at the same audience as the L2 player… more so than WoW, so that will be interesting. I realize that C5 will be hitting when Archlord Beta is underway but I wonder how many people are jazzed about C5. I know I’m not though I do agree that things needed to be balanced more (which is really what C5 brings).
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The thing that I think L2 is really lacking is PvE content. Basically you just wack at mobs all day. There isn't a kickass quest that would give you a meaningful reward such as someone else stated, a NICE C grade weapon.
Adding some nice cut scenes for certain things would be sweet, except since there is no instances I dunno what your character would be doing, or worse what someone else is doing to your character while you are watching that cut scene.
Even if the grind didn't change, if it was more fun and quest rewarded you more than more ppl would like it, and at the same time it would level out the mass farming. Cause I am doubting a automated 9 man party could really go run a quest that is well designed.
Quests shouldn't be a set back. They should help you out more than the normal grind. The normal grind is there if you just want to make some fast exp. So technically you could possibly lvl faster grinding, but not much faster. So you kill 500 mobs in 3 hours and get 1 million experience, and u complete a quest in 3 hours and it gives you like 900 thousand experience, or a good item.
Basically it just lacks PvE content. PvP is the best! Design is the best! Graphics is the best! IMO this game has everything better than any other MMO out there, except for pve content. A boost in the PvE content would make this game by far the greatest one ever.
Cryomatrix
Always love your posts Torak.
My post suck lol, I rationalize them far to much and add in factual threads to back them up, on top of it I'm a smartass lol. I don't give the reader enough room to maneuver, I hammer my point far to strongly...I find it all very therapeutic
Anyway, I was thinking of a few things that L2 could do to start things in the right direction or reinvent itself...
Like you said, adjust XP by about 10% and remove the level walls. (built in XP barriers at particular points, if they haven't already)
Story based quest system. From the moment you first log in there should by a cut-scene with a mission attached to it. This would be you tutorial quest. The end reward would be a random piece of top NG gear. This would repeat itself at every 5 levels (so levels 1, 5, 10, 15, 20....) Not all rewards necessarily need to be a piece of gear. (some rewards could be a custom or one of a kind bound item based on class/race)
The content or path of the quest would be based on race and class so there would need to be alot of them.
Rather then those aweful class transfer quest which are little more then an endurance test in patience. A dymanic (cut scene) with an instanced boss to face adventure type quest should be put in. (group or solo based either would work) With a "special" reward at the end. (something that binds)
In addition to these quest, a complete overhaul of what they have now. Kill task are for WoW players
Minic maybe FFXI style quest and task.
The point is at every level you would have at least one or two full, deep, quality quest going on.
PvP changes - rather then item drop, an alignment system could be developed. Basically we have that but its in a very base form.
Sorry, something needs to be done with the economy. Something drastic. Just increasing drop rates isn't going to help. The entire thing needs an overhaul. Not to sure how to fix that. Its f*ckup as it stands so whatever could world.
The point of this is to take the focus off the economy and put it into playing the game.
Basically, I believe if a game wants to break out of the current "lifecycle of MMO's it really needs to reinvent itself when it hits it's decline. Not like SOE tried, ripping the game completely apart. But in a way that address the games problems and builds its weaknesses. Marketed correctly, any game could revitalize itself. Core mechanics should be left intact unless obviously flawed or broken (like the conomy in L2). 100% player driven economies are a nice idea BUT even in RL no economy runs unchecked and totally market driven. The governments of countries regulate their economies! These same type of relationship needs to exsist between the game company and the players. There need to be controls.
What the current trend in MMO is once the game begins to die off, resourses are usually deverted to other new projects. Budgets are cut and the game withers and dies.
If games want to survive after they hit their decline, they should enter a period of "re-development" then re-release under the SAME title (with a new subtitle or something). Almost ALL products do this. That would mean MORE resourses and money. Its never been tried in MMO's but seems to work well with almost every other type of product.
Something the MMO industry is completely lacking is MARKET RESEARCH. These guys make games on a whim and a prayer.
Quality control - does not exsist in Western game companies. This year alone has demostrated that western game companies clearly have their heads totally inserted in their asseswhen it comes to quality control.