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Lineage 2 or Bondage 1? (Serious, Long)
Maurader
Member CommonPosts: 25
Greetings fellow gamers,
What I am writing about may or may not turn controversial, however in the end I will feel better about getting what I feel to be important out there.
Prior to posting this, some weeks ago I asked permission from the admin of MMORPG.com to post this topic, however I would like to point out that what I have to say does not necessarily reflect their opinions, nor should this be considered as a rant or otherwise.
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Individuals are asked to please post mature posts and keep trolling and flaming to a minimum, any person deemed as such will not be taken seriously and at worse case be reported for harassment.
Now that I have the pleasantries out of the way I would like to tell you a bit about myself, it might help you understand where I am coming from. I am 25 in the military (I think I am pretty seriously minded.. but a big kid at heart) and am married (my wife games to), I have no kids, and have a lot of friends online and in RL whose opinions also reflect my own, I am not a bible thumper or a dookie disturber (or I personally dont see it as such), I am a gamer.. like all of you. I also try and educate myself in regards to certain things before posting, so at least what I am telling you is accurate to the best of my knowledge.
Now like most of you I was completely hyped about Lin 2 coming out, awesome graphics and proven playing system (Korea final + Taiwan beta), The screen shots are to die for and the music outstanding. I have tried to familiarize myself with everything about the game, so to be prepared for a beta invite or final release but there is an extreme problem.
Some of you may not see it, thats for you to decide, hence this post. The problem is with 2 main things, the character customization of female characters and the rating associated with it, not to mention the in-mature official release movies containing more or less lewd shots.
Sooo, a few weeks ago I made contact with Lins CS staff in regards to the clothing options for the female characters, their response was that there are armor pieces that help cover a bit better.. And that was that, I went and checked out the screenshots of this armor, and trust me it does nothing to hide the Bondage type clothing for the Dark elf, and there is nothing I seen for the Reg. Elf (which every time she casts a spell her dress flies up). Now dont get me wrong, again I love the graphics, but one should be allowed to cover up their character a bit better than that. I am guessing there will not be to many good players going to this game nor will there be a lot of women playing.. I can only imagine the type of crowd that will gather after final and its been out for a few months (not saying everyone who is/will be playing a bad person) and the fan base gets settled.
But I can tell you that some of them will not be people I believe I want to play with, bad ones consisting of people who get off on Jap. Anime, School girls, and/or have insecurities about women Sorry had to throw that punch.
Now you might be thinking.. Hey Man, I'm not like that.. But I want to play, Im 18+ and good to go, etc etc like I said I wanted to play to, and I dont fall under my previous listings either, but take a look at the rating for this game.. Its rated TEEN .???????? Umm ok, Black and White is a teen game, SWG is a teen game (at least you can dress up your chara), Daoc is a teen game, etc etc.. But in this one you have no choice (unless choosing a male chara, but now imposes a restriction on female players) but to run around in bondage or uber mini skirts of revealing.. Why??? At the very least increase the rating of this game to mature, AND put an option for clothes.
Now most people (parents) dont pay a lot of attention to the rating when they buy this game for their kids, thats their fault, but the ones who do will buy this game with out even cracking the cover to see the displays, that is even if they show all those DEs in bondage on the cover.. Seriously who runs into battle in a bikini??
Now you might be thinking, What about all the crap kids see on TV? We all know thats a lost cause, and at least they play the special shows after hours, I personally think some violence and sex appeal is not necessarily damaging.. But this so far in the MMORPGs world (from the amount of time I have been playing) is the first where objectifying, demoralizing and somewhat lewd behaviors seems to be the main promotion to this otherwise fantastic game. Yes I also realize that in other games people run around in their underwear, at least women and others sharing the same opinions as myself will know that our characters are dressed and give them an idea who not to hang around with (no I do not play female characters, but it still bothers me).
Now like I previously mentioned I sent out emails to Lin 2 CS, and also I sent a letter to the head of the PR community in NCSOFT, but after they responded to a few of my questions (except the PR ppl) they shut up when I faced them with my other questions about the rating and objectification issues and the idea of putting a clothing option in. Im still awaiting to hear more from them but its been a few weeks and they keep sending auto responses in regards to not hearing from me etc, I wish I had a automated response for that because I send them letters every now and again asking if they are going to say anything.
Since then I have also asked my application be removed for the beta test.
To me this subtle silence means that they fully believe the ideas I previously mentioned are not wrong, maybe in Korea its ok, but here in North America and beyond I think we have a little bit higher morals than that.. I am not presuming that I speak for everyone, just most of the people I come in contact with.
I will do what I can to update the community on this issue, even if the response is negative; I feel Im doing the right thing in the right place. This is not a petition, or anything.. But it will help me gage the interest level and give me the best thing anyone could ask for.. The opinions of my friends and fellow gamers.
Now I realize that I am no English scholar, but I hope I got the main body of my point across. Thank you very much for all your time.
So again, Lineage 2 or Bondage 1? What do you think it looks like.
Personally Im picking WoW where everyone can play.
Maurader
Comments
I agree with you that there should be some more clothing options, though even with just the clothing atm, i really cant see how you think the game should be classed as mature. Do you see DE females running round fully naked? now that would be classed as mature. I think that there should be more clothing options though the currect clothing of course should still be there if people feel like using it. I'm not one of these people who makes a female DE so I can look at her ass all day long, but still, if people want to thats up to them, the game is classed as TEEN because the game has nothing in it to make it be classed as mature. Kids now-a-days see worse things on prime time tv than DE females.
Thats my opinion but I want to hear if other people agree.
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*Does not play well with others*
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You're kinda right i guess, a friend of mine showed some screenshots of Lineage 2 that were almost "naked". And it's probably why he's playing it the whole night till about 4 AM (dork).
lol anyway, i am still waiting for my access to Lineage 2 becouse i want to what it's like and so on.
And since i've already played 3/4 of the list on mmorpg.com ...
Alright.
Twitter @Phantium
Well i can kinda see your point, however preventing things from getting out of control is part parent, part company...
As time moves on we are seeing an increase in adult content fillters becoming lifted somehow, and it seems as though censorship is laxing... the best way to avoid desensitization is not becoming a part of it. Therefore atempting to keep out things as advanced adult content (bondage.. seriously thats what it looks like..), and objectifing of women.
Again I will mention im not opposed to blood guts and gore, sexual appeal, and language ... nooo im far from that. However having this newer approach into the gaming industry through the platforms we enjoy should be confronted, this issue burns my a**;
I like the look of the game, the lvl'ing etc, even the content is not that bad. But they are choosing to ignore me instead of talking to me, basically using the parts i find a bit offensive to market their product, and yes the rating .... don't get me wrong i don't care who plays these games 12+ what ever, however the introduction of somthing that is more or less sexually provocative over sexually appealing is where i draw the line im afraid, this is where i feel the rating should be increased, once it crosses that line. But then again as adults where do we say anything... its ok to bring you kid to a beach and have him/her run amongst the bikini wear women.. NP.... but I wonder what one would say if that that same kid is exposed to things as bondage and a constant bombardment of this kind of sexual exposure, and furthure more the objectification of women, Im sorry but that is how I pesonally see it.
Regardless of what we see on TV and what kids see on TV.. I want to see it kept out of the games, I play games to get away from RL, even if say im playing the Sims (shiver), sure little blood guts and gore.. and some "good looking" women chara's. . whatever, but using the mostly exposed features of a woman that is portrayed in the game in question, to sell their product is wrong, sure sex sells.. we all know that.
BTW.. if it seems im not writing to well atm ... it because its 2am. I hope atleast i covered your remark to the best of my semi awake abilities.
Oh and everyone, im not trying to get them to loose business or what not.
I hope those who are intrest in playing it, do it, and have fun. Like I said, I will not participate in it until certain things change.
If I have done nothing more than raised a few eyebrows then cool.. If its inspired others to speak out against something they disagree with then awsome...
It is us the players that determine if a game lives or dies, or what we want in a game .. etc
Thank you all so far who have posted, this info and your opinions help me become a better and more tolerant player in the gaming comunity.
I don't see what the big deal is.
First of all, I never understood why must we not allow our kids to watch nudity. I can understand grotesque violence, but nudity? It's not like seeing a naked woman going to turn kids into sex crazed maniacs or rapists. Kids should be aware that girls are different from boys. Otherwise there might be some confusion.
Second of all, most teenagers who have access to the internet, have access to so much porn that seeing a rendered female dark elven ass in a thong will not ruin their morals and values anymore than they are already.
Member Of The Activision Visioneer Program
I respect your opinion Maurader but it sounds like what you mention comes more from your own ethical/religious beliefs and the thing with MMOG's is you got players from all walks of life. I agree on some points, like at least making the clothing available to please the players that would want it(which seems like a smart business move anyways?).
Yeah, opinions are based off of your beliefs but when you have such a diverse population of people you can't really stick to one, they generally go for the majority.. which is, sex sells. I can admit I fall in this category. If I see a sexy girl, it'll get my attention...
And about bondage, I see YOUNG and old girls around town and at school that dress in revealing skirts, shirts, and all kinds of leather, sometimes far more revealing than any of these MMOG's show. With my generation(and probably quite a bit before) it's all becoming the norm and personally I dig some of it.
My two cents.
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Jake
KO - Harrold the Rogue
I'd hate to die twice. It's so boring
- Richard P. Feynman, 1988
I agree with madjake, it is kind of christian inspired like you said.
I think that playing a game where you can see underwear doesn't affect your sexual behavior (I hope not) because every movie you see have some nudity in it (except child movies). And if you are playing this game you are probably old enought to have had a few dates and seen a few panties (and more) in your life. So this or any other game doesn't do any harm i believe beause i think that the gaming community in mmorpgs is mature enough because they pay to play and not to see some underwear.
I think so but that's my european opinion
One day all will die, surely you but never I.
"One day all will die, surely you but never I." Wheel of Time
Sex sells...just look at the racy commercials on tv. So sex appeal makes a housecall to a player's MMORPG. Is it time to panic? I hope not.
These games are predominantly populated by male testosterone. And thus the targe audience for these games is no surprise. Many of these players are not strangers to puberty's fallout. However, the recent rise of females enjoying the fun of MMORPGs has altered the landscape of what's tolerated and what's not. Each game has its own identity and player culture, and Lineage 2 is no different. The character models and attire of Lineage 2 scream out fun and edgy. One person's trash is another person's golden underwear. Or so I'm told.
Korea is more open to things most americans find odd or should be censored infact justa bout America is the only one that is so up tight about nakedness/sex/whatever..
Like the janet jackson thing, woop dee doo its a nipple..
we americans are prudes plane and simple... my god people see more violence than anything in america and oh heaven forbid you see a nipple. we are the only country like this. i dont believe a orgasm could kill anyone exept one with a weak heart lol. most americans look for the bad in everything and never the good. its kill kill kill all the time it seems like. no one stops to say thank you or anything anymore. in my regular day and at work i say hi or good day to someone the look on there face is utter surprise and shock its really sad. i always look for the good in life i cant be a downtrodden person my whole life. im 27 so im not too young. its not like a baby/young kid never walked into there parents room while they where making love/sex or just nude and people think that a drawing will do something to there head. i mean come on now when does this end? the company and the goverment should never have to make rules for kids THATS WHAT PARENTS ARE FOR. you pay attention to your kids whatch them make sure there ok and your there when you need them. parents arent parents anymore there baby sitters. you cant disapline your kid anymore for fear of losing them. now understand im talking a swat on the butt not a beatting. i was never hit as a kid spanked or anything and im fine it just people forgot how to raise kids. My biggest thing is parents need to pay more attention to there kids and see what there doing make sure there doing there homework. thats all and they will be fine..
sorry for the long post but thats how i feel
Good point however,
If you choose to expose you children to as much porn as possible, thats your business. This issue is not just about teens being able to play it, although i can see that most people who are upset might be at a age less than 18. I have no problem with exposing my children (if i had any) to nudity
Im sorry but once again from a diffrent veiw, give me one game in the MMORPG world that uses sexual content to sell its product, then pop a teen label on it and push it out the door. Furthermore the last time i rented porn or bought a mag of the same nature, you had to be 18. This game is the first of its kind (MMORPG), and no doubt the last, is this what will be the trend?? New emote /F**kchick.. but I felt the issue needed to be raised so that is why im here.
If they see it on TV or on the web, I guess its ok to start letting them into strip clubs, wet t-shirt contests, rent porn.. hell lets give them the right to walk into a bars and order up a drink, after a long hard day in Grd 8. Don't let the failures of others dictate what you as a gamer have to see now in your games.
I mean really... what does it take to have the option to put more clothes on, even if there is only a handful of individuals who even wear the more dressed up version.. at leaast i know im one of them.
Thank you for you post.
Well i can see where your morals lay.
This a forum where our our opinions are tossed around all the time, I don't think im the one who needs to grow up, don't you think?
Thanks for coming out .. BUH-BYE.
First, I just want to say that all P2P MMORPG's require their players to be 18 or older by requiring a credit card to play.
But, the reason I wanted to post was to say thanks. I had no interest in this game until I read your post. Then I immediatly went and downloaded all of the movies to see what you were talking about, and WOW. You are right, them chicks are hot. Now I might give this game a try. Hell, if I have to stare at the same character for hundreds and thousands of hours in a leveling treadmill then it might as well be the hottest looking computer character on the market.
Again thank you for all your opinions...
Trust me I am about as far from god as 3rd rock from the Sun is from being serious.
And Janet Jackson showed her nipple.. yes who cares, but im not trying to push my morals down peoples throats, just trying to express my opinion on a game I feel should atleast give the option to put clothes on them.
I don't belive i have openly attacked any subject I didn't feel strongly about, and thus not being indiscrimint on any subject, just being objective in my remarks on this game, I personally think looks great, but needs to bend to player will. I am pretty adament on this issue but I like hearing from you guys alot thanks again.
Also I would like to add, where it would hurt them the most is if they ever had to increase the rating from teen to mature, so why not just give the option for a robe or something.
Although I am posting on this subject, a number of people i have talked to are alot more .. umm.. aggresive when I put this past them, Im trying to be objective on it, but please bare with me.
Thanks again guys and gals
Cheers
ROFL,
Well I guess this is a type of progress...
Thanks for posting
As someone pointed out that you must be atleast 18 years of age or have parental consent before playing an MMORPG because most of them require a credit card and a End User Agreement (which I believe you have to be atleast 18 to legaly sign). Therefor it is up to the parents themselves to control what kind of games their kids play.
Before giving your child/teen a credit card to pay for the game, take 15 minutes out of your busy day and learn a bit about the game and whether that game is something that you want your child playing. If anything, it will give you time to bond with your child, something that parents don't do enough these days.
Besides, sex sells and everyone who has any sort of experience in marketing will agree.
As for pornography, you're absolutely right, to purchase and view full frontal nudity and strong sexual content, a person must be atleast 18 years of age. However, viewing a video game character in a thong killing orc fighter leaders is neither full frontal nudity nor strong sexual content.
I posted my last post kinda off handed, in fun, but it was the truth.
Now for a serious post on the discussion of the thread...
The bottom line is that there are many different MMORPG's with many different play styles and graphics. Each one is not going to be for everybody. If there is something about lineage that you do not like, then you have the option of not playing it and not allowing your children to play it. Whether this be for violent content, sexual content, etc.
What you are arguing (no, change that, I apologize as you have not gotten out of hand)... what you are debating here is no different than the forever-lasting, never-ending PvP vs. CareBear debate. And again the bottom line in that debate is that every game does things differently, and instead of trying to bend one to your will, you should just find one that does match what you want.
For your side of the argument, I do understand that you are just giving your opinion, as in this quote from you:
"I don't belive i have openly attacked any subject I didn't feel strongly about, and thus not being indiscrimint on any subject, just being objective in my remarks on this game, I personally think looks great, but needs to bend to player will. I am pretty adament on this issue but I like hearing from you guys alot thanks again."
But here you also state "...I personally think looks great, but needs to bend to player will." Are you saying that the game should bend to YOUR will? If enough players feel as you do and do not play the game, then it will eventually bend to your will. But there is no way of knowing whether more players feel exactly the opposite until the game releases and the creators of the game see their subscription numbers.
Anyway, that is just my take. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with one of the new MMORPG games being a little more risque. It is a failure of the game in that the outfits the girls are wearing are not realistic. No way does a female warrior go into battle with her mid section unprotected and her ass hanging out. But it is a game after all. Heck, even Xena wore a leather armor skirt and had her tits almost hanging out.
Sex sells.
More people would rather have skimpy outfits then not
no one wants to dress thier character up like a nun.
its not a big deal, and i dont see why it is to you, every aspect of the game wont all be appealing to you, but just because something doesnt go your way doesnt mean you have to remove your application to beta.
Im not going to be playing Lineage either way soooo....
And for the part where you said maybe thats ok in Korea but not in America.. you have it totally backwords .. look at our society today...
Anyways.. its not a big deal, but i think that they should give at least 1 option to fully cover the midsection of a woman character .. but even if they dont .. eh oh well.
-Erik
Interesting post. I am not trying to be a wise guy here either but think about this. People are up in arms about stuff like this and up in arms about Janet Jackson's breast exposure at the Superbowl. How many people protest about the Victoria Secret commericals that air on national TV and at prime time's with almost naked women prancing around erotically?
The commercial ad's for men's male enhacements and the one sierra mist commercial were the bagpipe guys have one missing in the heat of the day and there asking were he is and he is standing over a air vent on the street with his kilt flailing and this guy's kid goes "that's just wrong dad" these all aired on Super Bowl Sunday and were way more offensive and obtrusive than the Janet Jackson expose.
I am a married man also and a father of a 15 year old daughter and honestly there are more things around her and the kids of today that I can spend more time trying to rid the world of then scantly dressed women cartoons in a video game. The game has a teen rating which by the way ESBR ( the parents who are shocked at everything that came up with the ratings boards) have rated it.
This society today makes less and less sense in general honestly. Parents should have more control of what their children do, see,say etc. I can say this to not go into a long history of myself I was one bad kid and spent alont of time locked up and around the things I should not have been due to parents that just didn't give a damn. We take our children to Pg movies today or let them see them that in all reality should be rated R. Is it right what your saying about the game? Most likely not but then again AC2 you could get naked down to your briefs same with female toons and dance around and play instruments although I do forget what the rating on AC2 was. I think it was the same though.
Look at most of the MMO's coming out today as well society is just awestruck with big fake breast's on women. It is becoming a massive given today wherever you look. Most if not all of the MMO's out or slated for release are full of women that are walking around with what looks to be massive implants. Women can uncloth and run around in their skibbies in Horizons as well.
Just trying to say to you that you really don't have to look far to honestly be fed up or disgusted and wonder why the plight of our future, our generation of children is in serious trouble. A large majority of kids today don't have father's around or they are from divorced or split families. The only way to fix this epidemic of degredation is for parent's to start being there for their children, to stop being their children's friends, and to take responsibility of them. Also following closely were their kids are and what they are doing. Even a smart parent can watch their children 24/7 but a smart and involved parent does know when something is not right.
These are just my serious opinions to your post and as I said not to make light of what you are saying but kids see a whole lot worse every single day just walking out their front door or turning on the idiot box. Us Americans thrive on violence we as a nation seem to love it but yet we hide our children from nudity as well. This is one discussion that could very well end up like politics and religion and never end. In the end it is a free country but freedom does not come without a price. In european countries people don't understand us Americans there are many countries overseas were sexuality is taught in a more easy atmosphere and they are more open to many things and their children are not degenrets. We all feel a need to impose on others what we feel is right and wrong yet then we want to scream freedom and equal rights at the same time.
Let god, the universe, whoever, whatever judge right from wrong we all have choices wether they be morally correct or sound or not. The basis of a moral society is to not steal, kill, lie, cheat etc. beyond that we all need to live our own lives and be responsible for ourselves as long as we dont intrude on others. The game example is simple in saying this then, if offended don't buy it or play it. If parent's are offended don't allow your children to play it. Kids just need to turn on their PC today and they get more degradation in one sitting then they could see in a couple months time elsewhere. The more we do to police our society the less freedom you will someday have and I for one am a history buff and study economics etc. and we are most fortunate to not be living on other countries with dictatorships etc. There are children in 3rd world countries seen more war then most kids see on TV. There are no easy answers i'm afraid for any society.
Peace
Through your fear I am reborn. My hand of grief can't be ignored. You know my name.... yes you know who I am. Frustrating turmoil again and again. I am the spike that drives through your hand. for i am eternal battering ram!
Zakk Wylde
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
Well i can see where your morals lay.
This a forum where our our opinions are tossed around all the time, I don't think im the one who needs to grow up, don't you think?
Thanks for coming out .. BUH-BYE.
ya i shouldnt have posted here, it was pointless ill let you guys get back to your little thread BUH-BYE
Member Of The Activision Visioneer Program
Again americans moral surprise me....¿?¿ first of all Lineage 2 isnt oriented to american primary, em are sedondary just see Korean, Japan, Taiwan betas!! wich other games done 3 specialized betas for ASIAN ¿?¿ so game dont follow american morals, well i think just follows normal morals.
Game requires a credit card so if your children under 18 (almost in spain) you require adult consent, first parents will watch if game is ok for his kids. By the same way you ever ask you children about why they want 10$ they asked for?? - Mom im gonna buy a porn publication, lend me 10$ pls! -. You watch a lot of violence, nudity (baywatch... pamela anderson,...yes lots of BOBS) and bondage stile of dark elfs scares you¿?¿ really the show on superbowl of MTV damaged someone¿?¿ if yes, LOL a nipple can damage someone?? what you used to drink milk when you had 1-5days borned?? you never seen it before¿?
i cant still understand american reactions about this notice.
Even i like game a lot, i played TW beta for days with elf female and i didnt made handjobs watching the elf pants... im just playing and saying WOW WOW again and again becouse game is amazing.
And for chirstians or similars... so... bible can say EVA was nearly full naked on paradise?? or you censured this explanation? if not dont scare you your children imagination thinking about a nearly naked woman with a nearly naked man alone, playing chess¿?¿?¿
P.D:I need to skill more my english spelling sorry
P.D2:Im not saying all american think the same way, just no all like Bush the warmaker
MTV shows more (or less, depending on which way you look at it), and they're predominately a T for Teen television station.
The fact is, there is nothing more lewd in this game that kids wouldn't see on TV or in a magazine advertisement. If you want to start a pilgrimage to turn around the sex sells-attitude of the cultural industry, start with things that kids don't need an adult with a credit card to view...
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"Io rido, e rider mio non passa dentro;
Io ardo, e l'arsion mia non par di fore."
-Machiavelli
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Killer 86%, Socializer 53%, Explorer 33%, Achiever 26%