SWG Subscription discussion

jrscott · August 2006

Originally posted by LilT
Meh, to me, arguing about numbers is missing the big picture.

I dont care about how many people are subscribing atm, what i care about is that its significantly less than before the nge. The point is, our game was turned upside down for this, the nge. Thats crap.

Agreed. But some people seem to get EXTREMELY bent out of shape whenever somebody uses any kind of number when they are posting their statements. The fantasy bois at both ends (the ones that say 250k or 5k) seem to blow a gasket when you use the conservative estimate of 100k to 150k. So I see what Pirrg is trying to do. Good luck.

You are right. The tree in the forest that fell when nobody was looking...it really did fall. And when the NGE is down to zero subscribers it will still be a turd even if there is nobody to witness it in all its turdish glory.

Fignar · August 2006

Originally posted by blondeh

When i logged in 3 months ago and Eclipse was struggling. I mean i really didnt see many people anywhere.
Now its like it was CU time. More people comng back.. I have to admit SOE havent brought pre-cu back but they do seem to be workng on the game alot. Check the last few publishes. Its like they now have a base they want to work on and are doing it. Yes theres a long way to go. However i can see the game growing. Not from new subs but from vets returning. I'm only going on by what I see.
I am kinda enjoying it. I thnk the only thing that kept me occupied pre-cu was grinding Jedi really. I dont log in for as many hours but when i am logged in i have things to do. Like loot runs and pvp.

What exactly have they done in say 12 months? Bought in 2 expertise trees for 2 of the 9 classes, which are largely untested so will likely be nerfed, the other trees are still in development. They spent god knows how many months on Restuss which was a complete waste of development time. They tweaked some classes here and there. Thats about it to behonest nothing else note worthy so in 12months they have really done sod all in my eyes. They might appear to be working on the game they did that for 2 1/2 years but in those 2/1/2 year they didn't do much.

Thank fully this time round they have WoW as a guide line and just simply copying traits from that game and adding them to SWG on the assumption it works for WoW it will work for us. So i don't think they have pulled their weight. IF they bothered to actually spend time on the game these expertise trees would have been rolled out with the NGE they would have already thought of a viable alternative for crafters and Restuss would actually have been engaging.

Trubaduren · August 2006

One of my accounts hasent been billed for 18monrths, and i have plenty of friends that has this to, this is qutie weird, though i play for free ^^

Agricola1 · August 2006

Originally posted by pirrg
Alright, im going to try to be as unbiased and constructive as possible so i ask the same from you guys, please dont flame this topic to death. Please read the ENTIRE post before responding, thank you in advance.

Several months back a log of the server populations was popping up here and there on the forums, claiming that all the servers had approx to 400-500 players on them, im sure you remember this as it caused much controversy. I think we can calculate the current user playerbase to around 100-150k using these numbers. How? Read on..

Pretty much every mmo on the market follows a pattern when it comes to sub numbers. That pattern is that there are approx 15 to 20% players online at any given time. Eve online and DAOC are both proof that this theory is sound.

Eve online has approx 130k subscribers, with around 20k players online at primetime.

Now lets look at SWG's numbers.

According to the "players logged in" log that was posted here several months ago, SWG had about 400-500 players online, multiplied by 26 (26 servers) that becomes 13000. Divided by 0.15 (15%) that becomes 86,666. Or, divided by 0.20 it turns out to 65,000.

Keeping in mind that this was just a few months after the NGE's release when the games subscription levels were at an all time low due to mass cancellations, and that this was before the expertise system, auto aim, restuss and several other features. Its only fair to assume that swg has even more subscribers now.

Anyway, thats my take on it.

I disagree and find no evidence at all that your assumption is "fair". In fact many would say it's fair to assume that subscription levels have dropped due to the very same "features" being recycled.

pirrg · August 2006

Originally posted by jrscott

Originally posted by MX13
Another Biased BS post by Pirrg... wow, what a shocker... let's shoot holes...

Those were PRIME TIME numbers, not general
30% of players are online durring peak hours, on average
The numbers were actually 133 - 722... that average is 428
The subs have gone DOWN sonce then, but lets say they've stayed the same...
428 x 26 is 11,076 players
At 30%, that would mean the Pop at that time was 36,920 total players, MAX
Does anyone think the Pop has even Doubled? Please...

Ummmm...133 + 722 = 855 855 / 2 = 427.5 (428)

Seeing as there were 26 servers are you expecting me to believe that the average of all 26 = 428 as well? Nice coincidence that all 26 averaged equalled the highest and lowest averaged!

Now...did you actually add all 26 populations together and divide by 26? If not, you'll see that the 133 was an aberration bringing your calculation down (European server off hours?) and your actual average is probably significantly higher. To be statistically fair you might consider throwing out the bottom 2 and top 2 figures and going from there. **** UPDATED I looked at the list you must have looked at and it appears 414 is the correct number using all 25 shown....mea culpa. But it still looks like you only averaged the top and bottom. And I too do not agree with 30%.

Like you said yourself,
even if those numbers werent just made up, the guy still claimed they
were from US primetimes, so if you want a more correct calculations you
should conisder all the european servers to have 450ish players aswell.

I'm on your side as far as pre-CU goes MX13, but you gotta cook your numbers better!

Until Pirrg said "Its only fair to assume that swg has even more subscribers now" I thought he made a sound estimate.

Now why would you think that? Can you honestly say that you havent seen a ton of "coming back to swg" posts? Hell even alot of the nge-haters here have resubscribed. Not to mention that chapter 2 most likely brought in alot of old players that wanted to check out the expertise system.

I cant believe you even bothered to reply to his embarrassing post in its entirety.

Reachwind · August 2006

From MMORPGCHART.COM:

" Since its launch on June 26, 2003, the number of subscribers to Star Wars Galaxies has always been somewhat uncertain. An official statement released by John Smedley, President of SOE, in March 2004 suggested there were then currently between 200,000 and 300,000 subscribers and that SW: G was the second largest MMO in the North American market. I assume he was discounting Ragnarok Online and possibly FFXI in that statement, so I put the number at that time at 275,000. Since then, the number of subscribers has fallen sharply, although there is no official word on exactly how much. In a more recent statement in March 2006, Smedley said that SWG was the fifth largest MMOG in the North American market, behind WoW, EQ, EQ2, and RuneScape, which would put the number of subscribers somewhere between 175,000 and 250,000. Inside sources have offer a more precise but incomplete picture; as of March 2006 SWG only had 120,00 monthly paying subscribers, but this number does not include those who are subscribed to the game via game time cards or SOE station pass subscriptions. SOE station pass subscriptions are not counted unless they actually have registered a SWG account. Based on previously known data, I put the total number of subscribers for SWG at 190,000 for March 2006. Since that time, another source has indicated SWG may have only 110,00 total subscribers, but I believe that figure is most likely the monthly paying number. As of May 2006, I have put the number of total SWG subscribers at 170,000, but the actual number could be anywhere from 110,000 to 175,000. "

According to mmorpgchart, a very reliable source trusted by many in the industry SWG lost 37-60% of its paying subs in two years. If that is your definition of success you need to put the crack pipe down.

KTHXBYE

MX13 · August 2006

Originally posted by pirrg
1. Since i compared it to EvE primetime i figured you would understand that i also meant SWG primetime.. but i guess you didnt.

2. 30%!? Bwahaha.. alrighty, im not even going to bother with the rest of your post as its obvious youre just trying to instigate a flamewar.

And i thought 15-20% was being generous.

You're cluesless. It's the industry average, and if you don't believe me, go look it up Troll Boy... How can you SERIOUSLY claim that durring PRIMETIME only 20% of poeple play? So 80% don't play durring the time when most of their friends are on... riiiiight...

1. Since i compared it to EvE primetime i figured you would understand that i also meant SWG primetime.. but i guess you didnt.

2. 30%!? Bwahaha.. alrighty, im not even going to bother with the rest of your post as its obvious youre just trying to instigate a flamewar.

And i thought 15-20% was being generous.

You're cluesless. It's the industry average, and if you don't believe me, go look it up Troll Boy... How can you SERIOUSLY claim that durring PRIMETIME only 20% of poeple play? So 80% don't play durring the time when most of their friends are on... riiiiight...

MX13 · August 2006

Originally posted by jrscott

Originally posted by MX13
Another Biased BS post by Pirrg... wow, what a shocker... let's shoot holes...

Those were PRIME TIME numbers, not general
30% of players are online durring peak hours, on average
The numbers were actually 133 - 722... that average is 428
The subs have gone DOWN sonce then, but lets say they've stayed the same...
428 x 26 is 11,076 players
At 30%, that would mean the Pop at that time was 36,920 total players, MAX
Does anyone think the Pop has even Doubled? Please...

Ummmm...133 + 722 = 855 855 / 2 = 427.5 (428)

Seeing as there were 26 servers are you expecting me to believe that the average of all 26 = 428 as well? Nice coincidence that all 26 averaged equalled the highest and lowest averaged!

Now...did you actually add all 26 populations together and divide by 26? If not, you'll see that the 133 was an aberration bringing your calculation down (European server off hours?) and your actual average is probably significantly higher. To be statistically fair you might consider throwing out the bottom 2 and top 2 figures and going from there. **** UPDATED I looked at the list you must have looked at and it appears 414 is the correct number using all 25 shown....mea culpa. But it still looks like you only averaged the top and bottom. And I too do not agree with 30%.

I'm on your side as far as pre-CU goes MX13, but you gotta cook your numbers better!

Until Pirrg said "Its only fair to assume that swg has even more subscribers now" I thought he made a sound estimate.

So my numbers were generous, but you don't believe 30%, an industry average durring primetime that even Raph has reffered to? Ok... Well, then say that durring PRIMETIME, when everyones Friends are on and events happen, that it's 15% (a joke), it's till not even CLOSE to his Trolling numbers...

pirrg · August 2006

Originally posted by MX13

Originally posted by pirrg
1. Since i compared it to EvE primetime i figured you would understand that i also meant SWG primetime.. but i guess you didnt.

2. 30%!? Bwahaha.. alrighty, im not even going to bother with the rest of your post as its obvious youre just trying to instigate a flamewar.

And i thought 15-20% was being generous.

You're cluesless. It's the industry average, and if you don't believe me, go look it up Troll Boy... How can you SERIOUSLY claim that durring PRIMETIME only 20% of poeple play? So 80% don't play durring the time when most of their friends are on... riiiiight...

1. Since i compared it to EvE primetime i figured you would understand that i also meant SWG primetime.. but i guess you didnt.

2. 30%!? Bwahaha.. alrighty, im not even going to bother with the rest of your post as its obvious youre just trying to instigate a flamewar.

And i thought 15-20% was being generous.

You're cluesless. It's the industry average, and if you don't believe me, go look it up Troll Boy... How can you SERIOUSLY claim that durring PRIMETIME only 20% of poeple play? So 80% don't play durring the time when most of their friends are on... riiiiight...

I already told you where i got my numbers from, now i expect the same from you. Pray tell.

Wildcat84 · August 2006

There are three numbers that have to be kept in mind for guessing SWG's sub numbers:

1. The number of people who actually play (who log in at least during prime time most days of the week) and who have open accounts.

2. The number of people who have quit but prepaid and their accounts are open but inactive as the subscription hasn't expired yet.

3. Station pass users who at least once tried/played SWG and thus it shows as an open account.

Group 1 is the declining active player base, the last holdouts. I feel the trader revamp (there is already a riot over the proposals) is going to be the next big hit. Group 1 people slowly become group 2.

Group 2 is responsible for the gap between the reported total subscriptions at mmorpgchart.com that doesn't jibe with the observed active group (group 1). Lots of SWG players paid on an annual or semi annual basis to save money. This group is rapidly depleting, however, and the actual reported sub number should start getting closer to the actual active subscriber number by the end of the year. Indeed, it should start dropping even more rapidly as we get closer to the anniversary of the NGE.

Group 3 is really statistically insignificant, as SOE doesn't even have more than 50K total station pass users, and the majority of those have it for the extra character slots in EQ2. However, anyone with a station pass who ever installed SWG counts as a subscription as long as they maintain their station pass even if they never play again. The station pass number is likely declining however, as SOE has statistically lost half their playerbase across ALL their games, so this will be less of a factor going forward.

To arrive at the most recently reported 170K figure, my guess is that it breaks down like this:

60K are group 1
90K are group 2
20K are group 3

Now, the average rate of decline has been around 10K per month. So, given that, and the numbers reported there are now 3 months old, I'd say that today MMORPGCHART would report SWG at around 130-140K, breaking down like this:

50K are group 1
70K are group 2
20K are group 3

Based on my best guess, I'd say that by the anniversary of the NGE, it will look like this, as those who had long term subscriptions who canceled due to NGE will largely be gone, and group 2 will be comprised of group 1 holdouts who quit recently:

75K reported subs of which:

45K are group 1
10K are group 2
20K are group 3

This all assumes that the decline stays steady and predictable. Other factors can of course, cause it to crash faster (such as the trader revamp being a Nancy McIntyre wet dream), or even to recover (classic servers introduced).

My overall prediction still stands: There WILL be SWG classic servers by the end of the year, or an announcement shortly after Christmas that SWG is being shut down in 1Q 2007.

MX13 · August 2006

Originally posted by pirrg

Originally posted by MX13

Originally posted by pirrg
1. Since i compared it to EvE primetime i figured you would understand that i also meant SWG primetime.. but i guess you didnt.

2. 30%!? Bwahaha.. alrighty, im not even going to bother with the rest of your post as its obvious youre just trying to instigate a flamewar.

And i thought 15-20% was being generous.

You're cluesless. It's the industry average, and if you don't believe me, go look it up Troll Boy... How can you SERIOUSLY claim that durring PRIMETIME only 20% of poeple play? So 80% don't play durring the time when most of their friends are on... riiiiight...

1. Since i compared it to EvE primetime i figured you would understand that i also meant SWG primetime.. but i guess you didnt.

2. 30%!? Bwahaha.. alrighty, im not even going to bother with the rest of your post as its obvious youre just trying to instigate a flamewar.

And i thought 15-20% was being generous.

You're cluesless. It's the industry average, and if you don't believe me, go look it up Troll Boy... How can you SERIOUSLY claim that durring PRIMETIME only 20% of poeple play? So 80% don't play durring the time when most of their friends are on... riiiiight...

I already told you where i got my numbers from, now i expect the same from you. Pray tell.

From your own thread... even using your 15%, which is not acurate for Peak Hours, the pop would be around 73,840 at the time, during Peak Hours. The game is not growing, it's continuing to loose Subs, but even at a growth rate of 3%, it's still not even close to 100k.

During Peak Hours, 75% of those people I know that still play, do play, yet you don't think 30% is reasonable? WoW brags that up to 45% of players will play at Primetime, and that thier Servers can handle it. So why are you using such Low %?

All you're doing is try to spin the numbers to your view...

Concord7 · August 2006

Data from the 1st two pages of each Galaxy's Forum -

15 "I am OUT" vs 7 "I am back"

Many "Im back from a BAN" and "Im bored" - LOL

pirrg · August 2006

Originally posted by MX13

Originally posted by pirrg

Originally posted by MX13

Originally posted by pirrg
1. Since i compared it to EvE primetime i figured you would understand that i also meant SWG primetime.. but i guess you didnt.

2. 30%!? Bwahaha.. alrighty, im not even going to bother with the rest of your post as its obvious youre just trying to instigate a flamewar.

And i thought 15-20% was being generous.

You're cluesless. It's the industry average, and if you don't believe me, go look it up Troll Boy... How can you SERIOUSLY claim that durring PRIMETIME only 20% of poeple play? So 80% don't play durring the time when most of their friends are on... riiiiight...

1. Since i compared it to EvE primetime i figured you would understand that i also meant SWG primetime.. but i guess you didnt.

2. 30%!? Bwahaha.. alrighty, im not even going to bother with the rest of your post as its obvious youre just trying to instigate a flamewar.

And i thought 15-20% was being generous.

You're cluesless. It's the industry average, and if you don't believe me, go look it up Troll Boy... How can you SERIOUSLY claim that durring PRIMETIME only 20% of poeple play? So 80% don't play durring the time when most of their friends are on... riiiiight...

I already told you where i got my numbers from, now i expect the same from you. Pray tell.

From your own thread... even using your 15%, which is not acurate for Peak Hours, the pop would be around 73,840 at the time, during Peak Hours. The game is not growing, it's continuing to loose Subs, but even at a growth rate of 3%, it's still not even close to 100k.

During Peak Hours, 75% of those people I know that still play, do play, yet you don't think 30% is reasonable? WoW brags that up to 45% of players will play at Primetime, and that thier Servers can handle it. So why are you using such Low %?

All you're doing is try to spin the numbers to your view...

Stop it.. just stop. Even rekrul disagreed with you on that point. Youre just embarrassing yourself now buddy. Show me why its 30%. Until then i wont respond to your delusional troll posts.

And why are you still asking me where i get my percentage from? I already told you i explained it thoroughly in my original post. Jeez...

Distopia · August 2006

Originally posted by MX13

Originally posted by pirrg

Originally posted by MX13

Originally posted by pirrg
1. Since i compared it to EvE primetime i figured you would understand that i also meant SWG primetime.. but i guess you didnt.

2. 30%!? Bwahaha.. alrighty, im not even going to bother with the rest of your post as its obvious youre just trying to instigate a flamewar.

And i thought 15-20% was being generous.

You're cluesless. It's the industry average, and if you don't believe me, go look it up Troll Boy... How can you SERIOUSLY claim that durring PRIMETIME only 20% of poeple play? So 80% don't play durring the time when most of their friends are on... riiiiight...

1. Since i compared it to EvE primetime i figured you would understand that i also meant SWG primetime.. but i guess you didnt.

2. 30%!? Bwahaha.. alrighty, im not even going to bother with the rest of your post as its obvious youre just trying to instigate a flamewar.

And i thought 15-20% was being generous.

You're cluesless. It's the industry average, and if you don't believe me, go look it up Troll Boy... How can you SERIOUSLY claim that durring PRIMETIME only 20% of poeple play? So 80% don't play durring the time when most of their friends are on... riiiiight...

I already told you where i got my numbers from, now i expect the same from you. Pray tell.

From your own thread... even using your 15%, which is not acurate for Peak Hours, the pop would be around 73,840 at the time, during Peak Hours. The game is not growing, it's continuing to loose Subs, but even at a growth rate of 3%, it's still not even close to 100k.

During Peak Hours, 75% of those people I know that still play, do play, yet you don't think 30% is reasonable? WoW brags that up to 45% of players will play at Primetime, and that thier Servers can handle it. So why are you using such Low %?

All you're doing is try to spin the numbers to your view...

Both of you are doing the exact same thing , You both want to try and show figures to support your opinions .There is no proof from either side, no information to say either of you are telling the facts as they are . SO what is the point in arguing over it ? The only place to go and look for any close to accurate numbers is MMOrpg.com , Even his numbers are guesses . Sony doesn't release the facts , So it dosen't matter what number you spit out , There is no fact to support it !

Shayde · August 2006

Originally posted by Concord7

Data from the 1st two pages of each Galaxy's Forum -

15 "I am OUT" vs 7 "I am back"

Many "Im back from a BAN" and "Im bored" - LOL

Exactly... for every one coming back, there are 2 that quit.

pirrg · August 2006

Originally posted by Shayde

Originally posted by Concord7

Data from the 1st two pages of each Galaxy's Forum -

15 "I am OUT" vs 7 "I am back"

Many "Im back from a BAN" and "Im bored" - LOL

Exactly... for every one coming back, there are 2 that quit.

So if thats true, and the average subs lost per month count is around 10k since the NGE hit. That must mean there are about 255k subscribers at this point? Or did i miss something?

Concord7 · August 2006

More Data - It appears that there are only (The member listing may not be complete - I do believe they are automatically added to this list unlike the other forums.)

4,816 Station members

Link to station member listing

http://forums.station.sony.com/station/user/list.m?start=4800

More Interesting Data (Remembering that the forums required membership to view in the past.)

302,046 People have register for the SWG forums all time.

http://soe.lithium.com/swg/search?submitted=true&type=user&q=&logic=AND&page_size=50&fuzzy=false&prefix=false&refine=false&advanced=true&fields=false&f_avgRating=false&f_avgRatingGiven=false&f_dateLastVisited=false&f_dateRegistered=false&f_email=false&f_firstName=false&f_lastName=false&f_location=false&f_logins=false&f_onlineStatus=false&f_pageViews=false&f_posts=false&f_rank=false&f_roles=false&sort_by=-login&page=1&ticket=XsGzrdyjgC_k_-1

Wildcat84 · August 2006

Originally posted by pirrg

Originally posted by Shayde

Originally posted by Concord7

Data from the 1st two pages of each Galaxy's Forum -

15 "I am OUT" vs 7 "I am back"

Many "Im back from a BAN" and "Im bored" - LOL

Exactly... for every one coming back, there are 2 that quit.

So if thats true, and the average subs lost per month count is around 10k since the NGE hit. That must mean there are about 255k subscribers at this point? Or did i miss something?

200K, which is what they had pre-NGE -10K per month (90K)=110K currently, which probably still represents a distortion of inactive players, active accounts (cancelled but unexpired prepaids).

The crafter revamp will accelerate this, as it will be a second great cancellation.

franksalbe · August 2006

What is with all the guessing

MMOGChart.com gives you a chart on all this crap

they have SWG floating right under the 200K mark as of July 06

MX13 · August 2006

Originally posted by Malickiebloo

Both of you are doing the exact same thing , You both want to try and show figures to support your opinions .There is no proof from either side, no information to say either of you are telling the facts as they are . SO what is the point in arguing over it ? The only place to go and look for any close to accurate numbers is MMOrpg.com , Even his numbers are guesses . Sony doesn't release the facts , So it dosen't matter what number you spit out , There is no fact to support it !

I'm pointing out the key flaws to his "numbers":

He doesn't even use the number base he referanced, the extracted server pops.
He doesn't recognize that these numbers are primetime numbers, there for the % of players on is higher.
Even his own Calc's put the players at 65k to 86k, yet he still claims the pop to be between 100k to 150k...
My Guild (people that played, 5 people, and now 2) did a /who / visual survey in may on one werver, Gorath. We divided up the planets, and went to all Star Ports & POI's & Shuttle Cities near the POI's. We also launched into each space zone, minus Deep Space & Kessel. We then did a /who & a overhead map survey. It took about 3 hours, and we did this during Primetime on a Friday (I did Kash, and it SUCKED). We counted a total of approximately 130 different toons. Now, figuring we were not seeing Traders, RP'ers in houses, Instanced Dungeoners, the PVP Space Zones & Adventuring players, we figured that we ran into about 1/3 of players. That put the players at 390. Scientific? No, but it's about as good of a headcount that can be done in Galaxies. And that wasn't even considering that we may have run into the same player on a Different Toon.

You're right, no one will ever know the exact numbers because SOE won't release them. The released them when it suited them & SWG was the largest MMO, but now they lie and say they never have (even though there are press releases). What I'm pointing out, and not to either extream, is that Piirg isn't presenting realistic numbers, even from the own sources he's claiming to be using, and that's fact. My numbers aren't, but they're a LOT closer to the truth...

blondeh · August 2006

Hey no need to jump on me I would pre-cu to come back. I was just relaying what I see with my own eyes. It seems the subs are growing again, atleast on Eclipse. The game can be fun if you forget about what we had and just jump and and try to enjoy it. Its taken me 3 months to enjoy it lol but i am.

Only time will tell I guess

jrscott · August 2006

Originally posted by pirrg

Originally posted by jrscott

Originally posted by MX13
Another Biased BS post by Pirrg... wow, what a shocker... let's shoot holes...

Those were PRIME TIME numbers, not general
30% of players are online durring peak hours, on average
The numbers were actually 133 - 722... that average is 428
The subs have gone DOWN sonce then, but lets say they've stayed the same...
428 x 26 is 11,076 players
At 30%, that would mean the Pop at that time was 36,920 total players, MAX
Does anyone think the Pop has even Doubled? Please...

Ummmm...133 + 722 = 855 855 / 2 = 427.5 (428)

Seeing as there were 26 servers are you expecting me to believe that the average of all 26 = 428 as well? Nice coincidence that all 26 averaged equalled the highest and lowest averaged!

Now...did you actually add all 26 populations together and divide by 26? If not, you'll see that the 133 was an aberration bringing your calculation down (European server off hours?) and your actual average is probably significantly higher. To be statistically fair you might consider throwing out the bottom 2 and top 2 figures and going from there. **** UPDATED I looked at the list you must have looked at and it appears 414 is the correct number using all 25 shown....mea culpa. But it still looks like you only averaged the top and bottom. And I too do not agree with 30%.

Like you said yourself, even if those numbers werent just made up, the guy still claimed they were from US primetimes, so if you want a more correct calculations you should conisder all the european servers to have 450ish players aswell.

I'm on your side as far as pre-CU goes MX13, but you gotta cook your numbers better!

Until Pirrg said "Its only fair to assume that swg has even more subscribers now" I thought he made a sound estimate.

Now why would you think that? Can you honestly say that you havent seen a ton of "coming back to swg" posts? Hell even alot of the nge-haters here have resubscribed. Not to mention that chapter 2 most likely brought in alot of old players that wanted to check out the expertise system.

I cant believe you even bothered to reply to his embarrassing post in its entirety.

Well, here is what happened Pirrg. I noticed the remarkable coincidence of the range of 133 - 722 equalling his stated average and thought to myself, "I bet he did not add them all and divide." And I wanted to point this out in a friendly manner. So I posted.

Then I went back and did more research and updated my post with the findings which actually made me look bad. I figured on the numbers being higher than they ended up being. Unlike SOE, I do not cover up my mistakes or deny them, and I'm open to the fact that sometimes I make them. So I left the post in place and it grew to the mess it became. I could have just replaced the text with a smiley and hid my own failure at making a point, but I thought it might be a good example of humility to others.

Anyhow, you're welcome for my support of your calculation method, despite the scorn I receive from my fellow pre-CU lovers for agreeing with you.

KzinKiller · August 2006

Originally posted by franksalbe

What is with all the guessing
MMOGChart.com gives you a chart on all this crap
they have SWG floating right under the 200K mark as of July 06

Yes, and the Psychic Hotline will confidently predict my future love life ..... with an equally solid statistical basis.

Seloth · August 2006

Originally posted by franksalbe

What is with all the guessing
MMOGChart.com gives you a chart on all this crap
they have SWG floating right under the 200K mark as of July 06

the problem with this is that the intel rating of the data. (from: http://mmogchart.com/)

"Star Wars Galaxies (Accuracy Rating: C)"

"C – This indicates that most or all of the data points provided are merely industry “best guesses” or are otherwise questionable. Usually, I will not chart MMOGs that rate C or lower. Their numbers should be taken with a large grain of salt."

Hence the never ending debate.

btw "assuming" we take the above posted server numbers as real in anyway shape or form then: 10820 concurrent users across all the servers is an average of 416.15 per server.

iskareot · August 2006

After reading, seeing and doing some half assed math I would bet that there is no more then 100k left across the board.

After seeing only 45 people show up at the last summit this also tells me that people have less intrest based on the games success.

Now then, after the recent posts from the execs of the game and Devs of course I would say that they have almost written it off as a loss and will continue the game as it is, but with no major investment left other then what has been planed already.

Also let's not forget that this as far as MMO history goes,this has been the worst "game gone wrong" topic in the entire gaming world. Based on the Awards, Press, investment reports, gaming reviews, Quotes from the Dev team, customers on thier own boards STILL AFTER BEING ABLE TO FILTER out most of us that will not pay for the NGE version of the game, populations, sales of the game and let's not forget the marketing mistakes that have been made, also the complaints and results at the SUMMIT meetings that more or less attacked the Dev team instead of being happy about things like the old Fan Fests...Presidents making snide remarks, CREATORS of the game even quiting due to direction issues and dissagreements it is safe to say that 100k players ARE WHAT IS LEFT, not what is coming or getting better.

The people that are left are hopeful people that got thier free Jedi or now have a small investment in the NGE, not to mention they may be Star Wars fans... Now, the good news is we all know the demograph they went after and we all know that the old game was to complex for the kids that wanted to play. At least now we know they may claim this is a great game with all this pretend potential and "future"...

I just find it funny that if this was the case.. then nobody would have to defend the game in the first Godamn place.

If it was successful, or even half way great... then none of this would matter and people would not be on the defensive side of this. In fact, if it was doing so well I can tell you that you would NOT SEE the president of the company on his blog site saying how working with your partneer company is bad and not worked out.

Bottom line is the subs is the least of the issues this has right now.

They are horrid and a joke -- considering this is the third version and the "So called GREAT NGE" --- sorry but your 6 months are up and the failure is here... at 9 months into this it would have had 300k of subs if it was a success, not a minimal 100k if that... ALSO out of those alot of the people are not even playing like they used to.

100k if your lucky are here to even see this mess.

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