But here you also state "...I personally think looks great, but needs to bend to player will." Are you saying that the game should bend to YOUR will? If enough players feel as you do and do not play the game, then it will eventually bend to your will. But there is no way of knowing whether more players feel exactly the opposite until the game releases and the creators of the game see their subscription numbers.
Very nicly put for total post wise, but,
No not my will, but from what i understand from the CS at Lin 2, they will not be changing anything regardless of what players want.. even if my efforts are in vain, or futile then so be it.. I gave it a good go and heard from those who agree and disagree with me, all very valid points.
No I will not be playing it, but its frustrating because I was sooo looking forward to it, and because I can't go against what i personally belive in, will not be playing until they add my suggested option, they are going to do what they want.
As for your guys comments I value those, I expected both sides of course and wanted to sell to you what I felt needed to be changed, not guilt trip people into having the same moral objections I have, we are all equals and have somthing to say.. this is the best site I have ever posted on, I actually get reasonable and mature replies which is great.
Furthermore I realize that there are all types of games out there and some do not meet ones idea of a good game, etc. But I think we have come so far in the gaming world, with so much diffrent types of content like in depth chara customization, armor and weapons that actually change your char's appearence when equiped .. certainly a far cry from older games... but 2 steps forward 1 step back.... for all of that has been acomplished, somthing as simple as a change of clothes, even on the inital chara set up is a little disheartening for this very advanced and well developed game.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> To me this subtle silence means that they fully believe the ideas I previously mentioned are not wrong, maybe in Korea its ok, but here in North America and beyond I think we have a little bit higher morals than that.. I am not presuming that I speak for everyone, just most of the people I come in contact with.
higher morals?! Ouch.
I don't think there's anything intrinsically moral about covering more or avoiding overt expressions of sexuality. It's not higher, it is just different and depends on the cultural context. Mother Nature says we should all enjoy sex and reproduce. That's why we're built and wired this way. What we put on top of that is cultural. Whether or not we cause harm to other people seems a more natural fit for questions of morality.
I am not saying that I would let kids watch porn. That's not even a real issue. There's a world of difference between a little (or a lot of) booty hanging out in a T-rated MMORPG and Big Bird Does Sesame Street. I don't see anything in Lineage 2 that is particularly worse than what I see walking down the boardwalk. (And just what is it with all these teenage goth girls in what would have formerly been considered fetish wear? Do they not know what it is, or are they just pissing off their parents? It's not offensive to me, just hilarious.)
On the other hand, I think more clothing options, or an option that lets you pick a more modest graphic for a piece of equipment, is a splendid idea. For one thing, it doubles your options for how you look. Sure it takes more resources, but the customization gain alone would make it worth it to me, IMHO. If everyone else is running around naked, I want to go out in a high, starched, Victorian collar. Call me weird, but I love to stand out. And I would have LOVED to have a less modest version of plate armor for my EQ ogress; she'd have been outrageously cool (in a funny way) in a steel bikini.
So, I am in fundamental agreement-- let people have more choices! Modesty is a choice.
~*~ neschria Bludgeoner of Bunnies
... This is where I draw the line: __________________.
Originally posted by ViolentY MTV shows more (or less, depending on which way you look at it), and they're predominately a T for Teen television station. The fact is, there is nothing more lewd in this game that kids wouldn't see on TV or in a magazine advertisement. If you want to start a pilgrimage to turn around the sex sells-attitude of the cultural industry, start with things that kids don't need an adult with a credit card to view...
I'm trying to keep the idea of what they see on TV and anywhere else out of my points.. based on the fact its a given variable, and under constant media scrutiny anyways. But in that respect keeping the issue at hand out of atleast one gaming type, or atleast to a minimum, is what im trying to focus on.. even if they kept going with what they got and added an option to drees up a bit might make the game more attractive to women players and if anything else players that have similar opinions to my own.
Even though it is a teen rating, it could stand to be more tastful in some respects.. yes don't play it if you don't like it.. cute and simple, however this is the first release into the MMORPG (from what i know) that has this type of content, and now not liky the last, unless there are people who say somthing. Most may not agree with everything I say, hey NP, these are my ideas and opinions, but from what I see so far they seem to agree with me on atleast one point ... just add more clothes, and/or more tasteful armor combinations.
Just go to their website www.lineage2.com go to their media section and look up one of the cinimatic movies, shes wearing a Cloak, high boots , a thong, and I belive its called a teddy (cheast peice).. and charging into battle...
The only thing that comes to mind (excluding the fantasy part) is "...Hey soilder boy, 5 dollar, sucky sucky..you want boom boom.."
Sorry to post so much its just im in the neighbor hood atm...
To Neschria:
Nicely put, and the main body of what you qouted me on was actually sent to Lin 2 CS, to more or less provoke a response... I know that their culture is different from our own, and morals and standards are opinions. I just decided to use that as a jousting tool is all. It also helps to see where alot of you guys are in relationship to where im coming from. If this is why they are not talking to me, then fine.. but i feel the points i did send to them should warrent atleast a response. Im not out to offend people, just trying understand things alot better.
I want to appoligize to if some of my content is more or less extreme on the scales, using outragous ideas to shamlessly highlight my comments... but that way you guys have an honest and more clear veiw from where im coming from.
well the DE females actually sort of have an excuse because the DE race are very open to sex and prefer not to be covered up and rather light and quick...
Yep you dumbass the dark elfs are meant to be like that, there meant to be all bondage and dungeon like while having very different sexual morals. Why does it matter if the female elfs dress flies up? Woaahhh you can see her panties!!! its just the same as guys running around in underwear, WHO CARES YOUR NOT SEEING ANYTHING...check out those hot inner thighs!
I posted a really long reply with thought provoking comments and I figured I was done with this post then I come back to read more and the originator posts this>
The only thing that comes to mind (excluding the fantasy part) is "...Hey soilder boy, 5 dollar, sucky sucky..you want boom boom.."
Now you said you wanted me to take you seriously and all? What about the kids reading these posts right now and everything that you might have had that was even close to a valid point you just blew it out of the water man! So making a statement like this to a reply post is morally correct but the female toon in L2 is overboard???? You honestly need to sit down, take a deep breathe and really figure out were ur freaking head is man and by the way don't get offended you posted this after all your mature and sensitive talk so you basically pulled the pin on yourself!
Through your fear I am reborn. My hand of grief can't be ignored. You know my name.... yes you know who I am. Frustrating turmoil again and again. I am the spike that drives through your hand. for i am eternal battering ram! Zakk Wylde
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
Originally posted by Shmee Yep you dumbass the dark elfs are meant to be like that, there meant to be all bondage and dungeon like while having very different sexual morals. Why does it matter if the female elfs dress flies up? Woaahhh you can see her panties!!! its just the same as guys running around in underwear, WHO CARES YOUR NOT SEEING ANYTHING...check out those hot inner thighs!
Always nice to have the immature dorks jump in with stupid comments like this during a respectable debate.
Sure glad you joined in Shmee... Your post sure helped the thread...
First off I think, you sort of have to look at this from the Asian culture, I am not sure about korea/Taiwan but I know Japan is very very sexualy open I am guesing that is true for a larger part of asia due to Japan's large influence but of course I am not an expert.
Anyhow Personally it doesnt bother me at all I don't really think it does anything to add to the game, I really don't think any teen agers are going to play the game just because they can watch there dark elf female running around in a thong, I am sure they have much better means of getting there sexual stimulation, I know I did at that age and the internet was a baby back then.
The main thing I see as a problem with the dark elf class is that there is no customization, basically they always look like they are wearing the bondage suit, at least at early levels "I have played the taiwan beta a bit" and yes I picked dark elf female because they look HOt and because I love dark elf's in general In a mmo if I have to run around for hours killing rats I may as well run around for hours looking at a hot scantly clad lady rather than a guy dressed in way to much leather.
So in the end my feeling is no one is going to play the game just because of the scantly clad female toons however without clothing customization I feel that people who wanted to play female toons will quit sooner because they all look the same or very close to the same.
I don't think there will be anyone paying 10 euro/dollar per month to run around with an animated character in panties so I don't think they make it so more people will play it. It is just a part of the game, don't blow it up like the american (media and some people) did with janet jackson's nipple flash that you barely could see because it was on screen for a second or something.
I believe that you can't protect children from this, you get to see a lot of suggestion and see men/women with barely any clothes on so whats the difference if you can see some nudity (i say nudity not porn there is a big difference, if you don't see that ...).
What is forbidden attracts (it did with me, everything i wasn't allowed to, i wanted to do), so if you try to protect your children to much they will do some things in extreme because they don't know how far they can go for they have no experience.
One day all will die, surely you but never I.
"One day all will die, surely you but never I." Wheel of Time
"What is forbidden attracts (it did with me, everything i wasn't allowed to, i wanted to do), so if you try to protect your children to much they will do some things in extreme because they don't know how far they can go for they have no experience."
I agree to this. "What is forbidden" does attract even if you're a devout Christian (you're also a human being). Just take a look at Africa. There are women running around with no upper clothing and does the community care? No they don't, possibly because it's not forbidden. If a cop saw a topless woman walking down the streets of a city in America then the cop would most likely arrest that woman. Although, I'm not all too sure about my reasoning since Africa does have a serious problem with the locals selling their bodies for food, clothing, etc. I do think that Lineage 2 is geard toward a male audience since it is primarily males that make up the larger part of the "gaming community", and I haven't seen a male character in Lin2 runnning around without a full undergarment (thankfully). I do believe they should allow for clothes that cover more than has been previously seen.
As for the moral issue in this country (U.S.A.)-I think it's about time for some restrictions to be applied. I don't mean to contradict myself, but there is an acceptable level of exposure to help children grow up and not be immature when they become adults, and there is an unacceptable exposure (such as "bombarding" the heck out of kids with unnatural incest so they become addicted.) There are two types of people which come to mind when dealing with porn, sex, and nudity. There is the one who stumbles and the one who is strong enough that they can deal with a certain level of it. However, there are still those out there that stumble and so the rest of "us" need to make their path a little less rocky and a little less steep.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather "Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
All this philosophy makes me want to contribute so here -
I feel that immorality will continue to rise no matter where it is; then there will be a cultural revolution like the Renaissance or Noah's Ark (though hopefully not in the same way). Lets also consider that immorality is everywhere, not just in America. We are seen as the moral nation just because we have higher standards of cencorship. Countries like Spain, Australia and Iraq all have lower morals simply because it is part of the culture. America is like the marketplace of the world; all these countries gather here. You can't really judge America since it has so much foreign influence.
Originally posted by sonicbrew I posted a really long reply with thought provoking comments and I figured I was done with this post then I come back to read more and the originator posts this> The only thing that comes to mind (excluding the fantasy part) is "...Hey soilder boy, 5 dollar, sucky sucky..you want boom boom.."
Now you said you wanted me to take you seriously and all? What about the kids reading these posts right now and everything that you might have had that was even close to a valid point you just blew it out of the water man! So making a statement like this to a reply post is morally correct but the female toon in L2 is overboard???? You honestly need to sit down, take a deep breathe and really figure out were ur freaking head is man and by the way don't get offended you posted this after all your mature and sensitive talk so you basically pulled the pin on yourself!
Through your fear I am reborn. My hand of grief can't be ignored. You know my name.... yes you know who I am. Frustrating turmoil again and again. I am the spike that drives through your hand. for i am eternal battering ram! Zakk Wylde
Let me first say Im sorry for the comments I made like that, although out of taste im sure... it was not ment to retract the points I have made. It was not right of me to post a comment like that, and for this I am deeply sorry.
Thank you for pointing out my error.
With that said, I want to add I just recived a reply from the Lin 2 CS. Although not totally specific in nature, I am somewhat please with it. It took them awhile to write me but here it is;
"Thomas,
Unfortunately at this time there is not much more I can suggest for you to do.. You have not seen all the clothing options in the game yet. There are many ways to "dress" your characters. If you don't like the way they look try a different character. I have read your long complaints (here and other places) and they have been noted. They are logged with all of our other useful suggestions. Please understand that we get many suggestions for the game and if we do decide to use your suggestion it may take a long time to implement.
The reason you get the "72 hour warning" is because I have been leaving your ticket open for you to add to as you please. Unfortunately since you don't like my answers there is not much more I can do.
If you have any other questions please don't hesitate to reply.
Thanks HGM spam"
Well for one I have been to an abundant of sites that post everything to do with this game, including armor, character creation, and custom varients, most certainly nothing that does what im looking for anyway. And out of all the letters I sent in I only recived 2 inital replys, more like "one liners" than anything else, this is the first and only reply I recived that more thought was actually put into. For that I thank them.
It may not be much but atleast what I am saying and what others have posted have been taken into consideration. Thats a huge jump from where I was.
I want to thank all of you on your comments and replys, they are reading this and are listening. Some of the replys have been somewhat hostile and more of a flame in nature than a serious comment.. regardless of the post I made in error.. I want to tell them to grow up a bit before coming back, these are most certainly the type of person i was refering to earlier.. greifeers, trolls, spammers, flamers and the type we run into online that cause alot more problems in the games we play.
But again thank you all, I have learned alot from you guys.. please keep posting here as the Lin 2 CS are reading this post daily (Well i'm assuming after that letter), so what we do say have some meaning. I will continue to talk to the more serious posters.. the rest of the flamers and such.. this is your only warning to smarten up.
Everytime I see a post like this I can't help to sit back and laugh. First of all, the wording used in a great deal of your post is a TROLL despite the big bold letters across the top of your post saying not to do it. In case you aren't sure what I'm talking about, here's a perfect example:
"I can only imagine the type of crowd that will gather after final and its been out for a few months (not saying everyone who is/will be playing a bad person) and the fan base gets settled. But I can tell you that some of them will not be people I believe I want to play with, bad ones consisting of people who get off on Jap. Anime, School girls, and/or have insecurities about women Sorry had to throw that punch."
I'm guessing that your pretty new to the fantasy genre because the artwork in Lineage 2 is by no means lewd or tasteless. Why is it ok for a PG-13 movie to bare a womans breasts (Sixteen Candles among many others), but its not ok for a female avatar in a video game to show clothing which I feel is pretty typical of the genre? Hell, Frank Frazetta (a world renown artist) has been drawing fantasy art of this kind since the 40's. His work was a major influence on many books/movies including the Star Wars Saga and Conan series (Conan the Barbarian/Conan the Destroyer).
You attempt to downplay the sexual attire in other games or movies is also laughable. "SWG is a teen game (at least you can dress up your chara)" Did you even play this game or just look at screenshots? Try walking in to the Bestine Cantina and checking out the see-through, spandex, or string bikini entertainer outfits and then making a comparison. And since you obviously know nothing about Lineage 2 other than what you've seen in a video or screenshot, you CAN dress a Dark Elf up covering her ENTIRE body (with exception to head because helmet art isnt in the game). I know because I've actually done it!
The next time you decide to go on a crusade to keep gaming industry rated E (for everyone) you better get your facts straight. If the artwork in Lineage 2 disturbs you, DONT PLAY IT. It's quite obvious your a prude or you wouldn't be going to these lengths to rally others into boycotting the game with you.
Originally posted by Shmee Yep you dumbass the dark elfs are meant to be like that, there meant to be all bondage and dungeon like while having very different sexual morals. Why does it matter if the female elfs dress flies up? Woaahhh you can see her panties!!! its just the same as guys running around in underwear, WHO CARES YOUR NOT SEEING ANYTHING...check out those hot inner thighs!
Always nice to have the immature dorks jump in with stupid comments like this during a respectable debate.
Sure glad you joined in Shmee... Your post sure helped the thread...
Yep and yours obviously helped a lot to.
Lighten up, my opinion is just as valid as everyone elses. Personally I think its people like you who are being immature taking something as little as this and making it so serious. Ah well i guess societys to blame, don't go tearing yourself up about it
Originally posted by Civil Everytime I see a post like this I can't help to sit back and laugh. First of all, the wording used in a great deal of your post is a TROLL despite the big bold letters across the top of your post saying not to do it. In case you aren't sure what I'm talking about, here's a perfect example: "I can only imagine the type of crowd that will gather after final and its been out for a few months (not saying everyone who is/will be playing a bad person) and the fan base gets settled. But I can tell you that some of them will not be people I believe I want to play with, bad ones consisting of people who get off on Jap. Anime, School girls, and/or have insecurities about women Sorry had to throw that punch." I'm guessing that your pretty new to the fantasy genre because the artwork in Lineage 2 is by no means lewd or tasteless. Why is it ok for a PG-13 movie to bare a womans breasts (Sixteen Candles among many others), but its not ok for a female avatar in a video game to show clothing which I feel is pretty typical of the genre? Hell, Frank Frazetta (a world renown artist) has been drawing fantasy art of this kind since the 40's. His work was a major influence on many books/movies including the Star Wars Saga and Conan series (Conan the Barbarian/Conan the Destroyer). You attempt to downplay the sexual attire in other games or movies is also laughable. "SWG is a teen game (at least you can dress up your chara)" Did you even play this game or just look at screenshots? Try walking in to the Bestine Cantina and checking out the see-through, spandex, or string bikini entertainer outfits and then making a comparison. And since you obviously know nothing about Lineage 2 other than what you've seen in a video or screenshot, you CAN dress a Dark Elf up covering her ENTIRE body (with exception to head because helmet art isnt in the game). I know because I've actually done it! The next time you decide to go on a crusade to keep gaming industry rated E (for everyone) you better get your facts straight. If the artwork in Lineage 2 disturbs you, DONT PLAY IT. It's quite obvious your a prude or you wouldn't be going to these lengths to rally others into boycotting the game with you.
First of all I never said there was anything wrong with the art.. I actually like it, I personally don't think that its ment for kids.
Second PG-13 now a days is quite distant from what I am use to ... what use to be considered "R" rate is now being added to the content of these movies... and if you actually poured through the posts you would see that Im trying not to invole such things as movies and TV into my points, as we all know that it comes under fire daily.
New to the fantasy genre? That is to laughable.. I m quite familar as to whats out there.. some of it I see as excelent art and others horriable atempts at art. I read Fantasy novels alot, and use to play D&D.. I feel I have farliy stable ground inwhich to work from.
As for SWG thanks for mentioning that.. notice how I said "at least you can dress up your chara" .. ring a bell? I played the game for about 8 months, I most certainly know what is in the game soooo....even though some of the content is a little reveiling..."at least you can dress up your chara" .. NEXT. Furthermore, its a matter of being able to dress up your character personally.. what others are doing is there problem, but atleast I wouldn't have to stare the ass of my toon as she runs away from me in 3rd person.
Yes Im quite familar with the art of Mr. Frazetta, beautiful peices.. cudos to him... but is his art work nessarliy for everyone? No I don't personally think so, not to knock his art, but if i had kids I wouldn't let them buy things like Conan "type" comics, Im guessing you actually read the comics, and know of some of its more or less extreme content.
Also refering to some of my prevous posts.. you know.. the ones past the only one you read... I make mention that I have poured over every website I could get a link to and even the ones that explain chara customization, show alot of the peices of armor on varous toons... funny how most of these sites seem to use the Dark Elf female as their model, using low ground close up shots of the bikini regions. Maybe you can enlightne the rest of use as to which armor combos will act as cover ups.. and is it even useful armor at higher lvls, is it only one type, can you get it right away? And why its not a part of your character custom set up? We are all ears.
As far as Cursade, the only thing I hope to acomplish is public awarness in a community I enjoy, and get honest feed back from individuals intrested in this game, or have something real to say. And no, until they change some of the atire in the game I have no intrest now in playing it, but then again if you scrolled up above your post you would see a letter from Lin 2 CS, that is atleast you had time to do so.
You see folks this is a perfect example of a Troll, although some very well though out facts.. this person has not even taken the time to read through this thread, seen somthing that put down his/her favorite game and came in with only one intent.
I don't pretend to be perfect, or on a crusade.. I try not to post about anything I have no idea about, or atleast have not gathered sufficent info on. Im also not trying to rally, this is my podium, and plateform inwhich to talk about things game related. Guess that hurts you.. Civil trust me (if I remeber correctly, plz correct me if im truly wrong) I have read some of your posts, don't trying to enlighten me as to what is proper or what not.
So your a Troll and Im a Prude.. and we all live happly ever after. Im sorry if all you seen was me attacking your current most favorite game, and missed the rest of what was said.
Who here thinks im repeating myself over and over.. well thats right, it kinda happens when no one actually reads what your saying, I know rage blinds us, before posting we should a screen that pops up with a blue back ground, and flowers so we can calm down some of the raging bulls who come here to only say one thing and just be angry at the world.
Second PG-13 now a days is quite distant from what I am use to ... what use to be considered "R" rate is now being added to the content of these movies... and if you actually poured through the posts you would see that Im trying not to invole such things as movies and TV into my points, as we all know that it comes under fire daily.
>>> Hmm, why do you DOWNPLAY everything which would discredit your little crusade?
New to the fantasy genre? That is to laughable.. I m quite familar as to whats out there.. some of it I see as excelent art and others horriable atempts at art. I read Fantasy novels alot, and use to play D&D.. I feel I have farliy stable ground inwhich to work from.
>>> That remains to be seen.
As for SWG thanks for mentioning that.. notice how I said "at least you can dress up your chara" .. ring a bell? I played the game for about 8 months, I most certainly know what is in the game soooo....even though some of the content is a little reveiling..."at least you can dress up your chara" .. NEXT. Furthermore, its a matter of being able to dress up your character personally.. what others are doing is there problem, but atleast I wouldn't have to stare the ass of my toon as she runs away from me in 3rd person.
>>> Did you notice how I said that you could dress up your char in Lineage 2 covering her entire body? How is that ANY different than dressing up your character in SWG or some other game? It's not, but admitting it would discredit everything your saying.
Also refering to some of my prevous posts.. you know.. the ones past the only one you read... I make mention that I have poured over every website I could get a link to and even the ones that explain chara customization, show alot of the peices of armor on varous toons... funny how most of these sites seem to use the Dark Elf female as their model, using low ground close up shots of the bikini regions. Maybe you can enlightne the rest of use as to which armor combos will act as cover ups.. and is it even useful armor at higher lvls, is it only one type, can you get it right away? And why its not a part of your character custom set up? We are all ears.
>>> Just because you can't find something on a fansite, doesn't mean it doesn't exist in the game. All ears huh? Good, make sure this soaks in. Bone Gaitors can be acquired via a quest in the Dark Elf village at level 15. They cover every single inch of skin from the waist down. This isn't your only option either, there are many to choose from. If your worried about the upper half, you can wear body armor.
As far as Cursade, the only thing I hope to acomplish is public awarness in a community I enjoy, and get honest feed back from individuals intrested in this game, or have something real to say. And no, until they change some of the atire in the game I have no intrest now in playing it, but then again if you scrolled up above your post you would see a letter from Lin 2 CS, that is atleast you had time to do so.
>>> I read many of the posts in this thread, but not all 6 pages or whatever its up to now. This is about as far as I'm willing to take this considering the legitimacy of your argument.
You see folks this is a perfect example of a Troll, although some very well though out facts.. this person has not even taken the time to read through this thread, seen somthing that put down his/her favorite game and came in with only one intent.
>>> Do you know what the definition of a troll is? Your entire opening post is a Troll. You weren't trying to bring awareness, you were trying to stir up some support and force Lineage 2 to modify their design. All this with you still being unfamiliar with the product other than what you've seen on fansites.
I don't pretend to be perfect, or on a crusade.. I try not to post about anything I have no idea about, or atleast have not gathered sufficent info on. Im also not trying to rally, this is my podium, and plateform inwhich to talk about things game related. Guess that hurts you.. Civil trust me (if I remeber correctly, plz correct me if im truly wrong) I have read some of your posts, don't trying to enlighten me as to what is proper or what not.
>>> Wanna talk about proper? What about your glorification for Satan? Yes, I'm talking about your name, the devil icons by your name, and the '666' reference in your email address. To be honest, it doesn't bother me, but what about the kids? *laughs* If your going to take the Joesph Leiberman approach, atleast hit it from all angles. I don't claim to be proper and I'm also not the one fighting this crusade remember? So it's ok to go out and murder another player, but to see a females underpants is just too much for you to handle? Ok, you need to get your priorities straight.
So your a Troll and Im a Prude.. and we all live happly ever after. Im sorry if all you seen was me attacking your current most favorite game, and missed the rest of what was said.
>>> Actually, you were half right... you're a troll and a prude. Trolling is used when you're trying to provoke a reaction. Clearly you did this or I wouldn't have replied considering I've been on these forums since 8/03 and rarely ever post. Something this silly couldn't be overlooked though. Atleast take the time to educate yourself with all the facts (other than what you see on a fansite) before going on another crusade. That's all I ask.
Originally posted by higgsboson Maurader Someone quoted your post in l2orphus.com Did you check that out?
After reading your post I can't help but ask whether you are a muslem or orthodox jew.
If that's the case I think everyone should respect his point of view. Because I know there could huge discrepancy between secular and fundamental religious viewpoint.
Regardless of what the responses might be, we are entitled to our opinions.
Thank you very much.
/bow
Maurader <------ there i changed my little symbols so people are not confused and think Im some devil worshiper LOL.. and to anyone who finds my email address offensive please start a post about it.. this is the first time in about 4 yrs since having this email has anyone said anything about it (im refering to an earlier post)
Comments
Taskyzz wrote:
But here you also state "...I personally think looks great, but needs to bend to player will." Are you saying that the game should bend to YOUR will? If enough players feel as you do and do not play the game, then it will eventually bend to your will. But there is no way of knowing whether more players feel exactly the opposite until the game releases and the creators of the game see their subscription numbers.
Very nicly put for total post wise, but,
No not my will, but from what i understand from the CS at Lin 2, they will not be changing anything regardless of what players want.. even if my efforts are in vain, or futile then so be it.. I gave it a good go and heard from those who agree and disagree with me, all very valid points.
No I will not be playing it, but its frustrating because I was sooo looking forward to it, and because I can't go against what i personally belive in, will not be playing until they add my suggested option, they are going to do what they want.
As for your guys comments I value those, I expected both sides of course and wanted to sell to you what I felt needed to be changed, not guilt trip people into having the same moral objections I have, we are all equals and have somthing to say.. this is the best site I have ever posted on, I actually get reasonable and mature replies which is great.
Furthermore I realize that there are all types of games out there and some do not meet ones idea of a good game, etc. But I think we have come so far in the gaming world, with so much diffrent types of content like in depth chara customization, armor and weapons that actually change your char's appearence when equiped .. certainly a far cry from older games... but 2 steps forward 1 step back.... for all of that has been acomplished, somthing as simple as a change of clothes, even on the inital chara set up is a little disheartening for this very advanced and well developed game.
Thanks again
higher morals?! Ouch.
I don't think there's anything intrinsically moral about covering more or avoiding overt expressions of sexuality. It's not higher, it is just different and depends on the cultural context. Mother Nature says we should all enjoy sex and reproduce. That's why we're built and wired this way. What we put on top of that is cultural. Whether or not we cause harm to other people seems a more natural fit for questions of morality.
I am not saying that I would let kids watch porn. That's not even a real issue. There's a world of difference between a little (or a lot of) booty hanging out in a T-rated MMORPG and Big Bird Does Sesame Street. I don't see anything in Lineage 2 that is particularly worse than what I see walking down the boardwalk. (And just what is it with all these teenage goth girls in what would have formerly been considered fetish wear? Do they not know what it is, or are they just pissing off their parents? It's not offensive to me, just hilarious.)
On the other hand, I think more clothing options, or an option that lets you pick a more modest graphic for a piece of equipment, is a splendid idea. For one thing, it doubles your options for how you look. Sure it takes more resources, but the customization gain alone would make it worth it to me, IMHO. If everyone else is running around naked, I want to go out in a high, starched, Victorian collar. Call me weird, but I love to stand out. And I would have LOVED to have a less modest version of plate armor for my EQ ogress; she'd have been outrageously cool (in a funny way) in a steel bikini.
So, I am in fundamental agreement-- let people have more choices! Modesty is a choice.
~*~
neschria
Bludgeoner of Bunnies
...
This is where I draw the line: __________________.
I'm trying to keep the idea of what they see on TV and anywhere else out of my points.. based on the fact its a given variable, and under constant media scrutiny anyways. But in that respect keeping the issue at hand out of atleast one gaming type, or atleast to a minimum, is what im trying to focus on.. even if they kept going with what they got and added an option to drees up a bit might make the game more attractive to women players and if anything else players that have similar opinions to my own.
Even though it is a teen rating, it could stand to be more tastful in some respects.. yes don't play it if you don't like it.. cute and simple, however this is the first release into the MMORPG (from what i know) that has this type of content, and now not liky the last, unless there are people who say somthing. Most may not agree with everything I say, hey NP, these are my ideas and opinions, but from what I see so far they seem to agree with me on atleast one point ... just add more clothes, and/or more tasteful armor combinations.
Just go to their website www.lineage2.com go to their media section and look up one of the cinimatic movies, shes wearing a Cloak, high boots , a thong, and I belive its called a teddy (cheast peice).. and charging into battle...
The only thing that comes to mind (excluding the fantasy part) is "...Hey soilder boy, 5 dollar, sucky sucky..you want boom boom.."
Sorry had to put that in there...
Sorry to post so much its just im in the neighbor hood atm...
To Neschria:
Nicely put, and the main body of what you qouted me on was actually sent to Lin 2 CS, to more or less provoke a response... I know that their culture is different from our own, and morals and standards are opinions. I just decided to use that as a jousting tool is all. It also helps to see where alot of you guys are in relationship to where im coming from. If this is why they are not talking to me, then fine.. but i feel the points i did send to them should warrent atleast a response. Im not out to offend people, just trying understand things alot better.
I want to appoligize to if some of my content is more or less extreme on the scales, using outragous ideas to shamlessly highlight my comments... but that way you guys have an honest and more clear veiw from where im coming from.
Thank you for the well put response.
well the DE females actually sort of have an excuse because the DE race are very open to sex and prefer not to be covered up and rather light and quick...
--------------------------------------
I posted a really long reply with thought provoking comments and I figured I was done with this post then I come back to read more and the originator posts this>
The only thing that comes to mind (excluding the fantasy part) is "...Hey soilder boy, 5 dollar, sucky sucky..you want boom boom.."
Now you said you wanted me to take you seriously and all? What about the kids reading these posts right now and everything that you might have had that was even close to a valid point you just blew it out of the water man! So making a statement like this to a reply post is morally correct but the female toon in L2 is overboard???? You honestly need to sit down, take a deep breathe and really figure out were ur freaking head is man and by the way don't get offended you posted this after all your mature and sensitive talk so you basically pulled the pin on yourself!
Through your fear I am reborn. My hand of grief can't be ignored. You know my name.... yes you know who I am. Frustrating turmoil again and again. I am the spike that drives through your hand. for i am eternal battering ram!
Zakk Wylde
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
Always nice to have the immature dorks jump in with stupid comments like this during a respectable debate.
Sure glad you joined in Shmee...
Your post sure helped the thread...
Stick to the topic and keep the flamming to a minimum please.
- Malkavian
"When you find yourself falling into madness... Dive." - Malkavian Proverb
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
"When you find yourself sinking into Madness, dive"
First off I think, you sort of have to look at this from the Asian culture, I am not sure about korea/Taiwan but I know Japan is very very sexualy open I am guesing that is true for a larger part of asia due to Japan's large influence but of course I am not an expert.
Anyhow Personally it doesnt bother me at all I don't really think it does anything to add to the game, I really don't think any teen agers are going to play the game just because they can watch there dark elf female running around in a thong, I am sure they have much better means of getting there sexual stimulation, I know I did at that age and the internet was a baby back then.
The main thing I see as a problem with the dark elf class is that there is no customization, basically they always look like they are wearing the bondage suit, at least at early levels "I have played the taiwan beta a bit" and yes I picked dark elf female because they look HOt and because I love dark elf's in general In a mmo if I have to run around for hours killing rats I may as well run around for hours looking at a hot scantly clad lady rather than a guy dressed in way to much leather.
So in the end my feeling is no one is going to play the game just because of the scantly clad female toons however without clothing customization I feel that people who wanted to play female toons will quit sooner because they all look the same or very close to the same.
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The anticpation of death is far worse than death itself.
[img]http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/images/banner.gif[img]
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If you wait to do something until the last minute, your more efficient since it will only take 1 minute.
I don't think there will be anyone paying 10 euro/dollar per month to run around with an animated character in panties so I don't think they make it so more people will play it. It is just a part of the game, don't blow it up like the american (media and some people) did with janet jackson's nipple flash that you barely could see because it was on screen for a second or something.
I believe that you can't protect children from this, you get to see a lot of suggestion and see men/women with barely any clothes on so whats the difference if you can see some nudity (i say nudity not porn there is a big difference, if you don't see that ...).
What is forbidden attracts (it did with me, everything i wasn't allowed to, i wanted to do), so if you try to protect your children to much they will do some things in extreme because they don't know how far they can go for they have no experience.
One day all will die, surely you but never I.
"One day all will die, surely you but never I." Wheel of Time
"What is forbidden attracts (it did with me, everything i wasn't allowed to, i wanted to do), so if you try to protect your children to much they will do some things in extreme because they don't know how far they can go for they have no experience."
I agree to this. "What is forbidden" does attract even if you're a devout Christian (you're also a human being). Just take a look at Africa. There are women running around with no upper clothing and does the community care? No they don't, possibly because it's not forbidden. If a cop saw a topless woman walking down the streets of a city in America then the cop would most likely arrest that woman. Although, I'm not all too sure about my reasoning since Africa does have a serious problem with the locals selling their bodies for food, clothing, etc. I do think that Lineage 2 is geard toward a male audience since it is primarily males that make up the larger part of the "gaming community", and I haven't seen a male character in Lin2 runnning around without a full undergarment
(thankfully). I do believe they should allow for clothes that cover more than has been previously seen.
As for the moral issue in this country (U.S.A.)-I think it's about time for some restrictions to be applied. I don't mean to contradict myself, but there is an acceptable level of exposure to help children grow up and not be immature when they become adults, and there is an unacceptable exposure (such as "bombarding" the heck out of kids with unnatural incest so they become addicted.) There are two types of people which come to mind when dealing with porn, sex, and nudity. There is the one who stumbles and the one who is strong enough that they can deal with a certain level of it. However, there are still those out there that stumble and so the rest of "us" need to make their path a little less rocky and a little less steep.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
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*Does not play well with others*
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All this philosophy makes me want to contribute so here -
I feel that immorality will continue to rise no matter where it is; then there will be a cultural revolution like the Renaissance or Noah's Ark (though hopefully not in the same way). Lets also consider that immorality is everywhere, not just in America. We are seen as the moral nation just because we have higher standards of cencorship. Countries like Spain, Australia and Iraq all have lower morals simply because it is part of the culture. America is like the marketplace of the world; all these countries gather here. You can't really judge America since it has so much foreign influence.
Or maybe not; thats just my point of view.
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*Does not play well with others*
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I read this statement, then view your sig...
and i am left to wonder....
- Malkavian
"When you find yourself falling into madness... Dive." - Malkavian Proverb
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
"When you find yourself sinking into Madness, dive"
Let me first say Im sorry for the comments I made like that, although out of taste im sure... it was not ment to retract the points I have made. It was not right of me to post a comment like that, and for this I am deeply sorry.
Thank you for pointing out my error.
With that said, I want to add I just recived a reply from the Lin 2 CS. Although not totally specific in nature, I am somewhat please with it. It took them awhile to write me but here it is;
"Thomas,
Unfortunately at this time there is not much more I can suggest for you to do.. You have not seen all the clothing options in the game yet. There are many ways to "dress" your characters. If you don't like the way they look try a different character. I have read your long complaints (here and other places) and they have been noted. They are logged with all of our other useful suggestions. Please understand that we get many suggestions for the game and if we do decide to use your suggestion it may take a long time to implement.
The reason you get the "72 hour warning" is because I have been leaving your ticket open for you to add to as you please. Unfortunately since you don't like my answers there is not much more I can do.
If you have any other questions please don't hesitate to reply.
Thanks
HGM spam"
Well for one I have been to an abundant of sites that post everything to do with this game, including armor, character creation, and custom varients, most certainly nothing that does what im looking for anyway. And out of all the letters I sent in I only recived 2 inital replys, more like "one liners" than anything else, this is the first and only reply I recived that more thought was actually put into. For that I thank them.
It may not be much but atleast what I am saying and what others have posted have been taken into consideration. Thats a huge jump from where I was.
I want to thank all of you on your comments and replys, they are reading this and are listening. Some of the replys have been somewhat hostile and more of a flame in nature than a serious comment.. regardless of the post I made in error.. I want to tell them to grow up a bit before coming back, these are most certainly the type of person i was refering to earlier.. greifeers, trolls, spammers, flamers and the type we run into online that cause alot more problems in the games we play.
But again thank you all, I have learned alot from you guys.. please keep posting here as the Lin 2 CS are reading this post daily (Well i'm assuming after that letter), so what we do say have some meaning. I will continue to talk to the more serious posters.. the rest of the flamers and such.. this is your only warning to smarten up.
Everytime I see a post like this I can't help to sit back and laugh. First of all, the wording used in a great deal of your post is a TROLL despite the big bold letters across the top of your post saying not to do it. In case you aren't sure what I'm talking about, here's a perfect example:
"I can only imagine the type of crowd that will gather after final and its been out for a few months (not saying everyone who is/will be playing a bad person) and the fan base gets settled. But I can tell you that some of them will not be people I believe I want to play with, bad ones consisting of people who get off on Jap. Anime, School girls, and/or have insecurities about women Sorry had to throw that punch."
I'm guessing that your pretty new to the fantasy genre because the artwork in Lineage 2 is by no means lewd or tasteless. Why is it ok for a PG-13 movie to bare a womans breasts (Sixteen Candles among many others), but its not ok for a female avatar in a video game to show clothing which I feel is pretty typical of the genre? Hell, Frank Frazetta (a world renown artist) has been drawing fantasy art of this kind since the 40's. His work was a major influence on many books/movies including the Star Wars Saga and Conan series (Conan the Barbarian/Conan the Destroyer).
You attempt to downplay the sexual attire in other games or movies is also laughable. "SWG is a teen game (at least you can dress up your chara)" Did you even play this game or just look at screenshots? Try walking in to the Bestine Cantina and checking out the see-through, spandex, or string bikini entertainer outfits and then making a comparison. And since you obviously know nothing about Lineage 2 other than what you've seen in a video or screenshot, you CAN dress a Dark Elf up covering her ENTIRE body (with exception to head because helmet art isnt in the game). I know because I've actually done it!
The next time you decide to go on a crusade to keep gaming industry rated E (for everyone) you better get your facts straight. If the artwork in Lineage 2 disturbs you, DONT PLAY IT. It's quite obvious your a prude or you wouldn't be going to these lengths to rally others into boycotting the game with you.
Always nice to have the immature dorks jump in with stupid comments like this during a respectable debate.
Sure glad you joined in Shmee...
Your post sure helped the thread...
Yep and yours obviously helped a lot to.
Lighten up, my opinion is just as valid as everyone elses. Personally I think its people like you who are being immature taking something as little as this and making it so serious. Ah well i guess societys to blame, don't go tearing yourself up about itFirst of all I never said there was anything wrong with the art.. I actually like it, I personally don't think that its ment for kids.
Second PG-13 now a days is quite distant from what I am use to ... what use to be considered "R" rate is now being added to the content of these movies... and if you actually poured through the posts you would see that Im trying not to invole such things as movies and TV into my points, as we all know that it comes under fire daily.
New to the fantasy genre? That is to laughable.. I m quite familar as to whats out there.. some of it I see as excelent art and others horriable atempts at art. I read Fantasy novels alot, and use to play D&D.. I feel I have farliy stable ground inwhich to work from.
As for SWG thanks for mentioning that.. notice how I said "at least you can dress up your chara" .. ring a bell? I played the game for about 8 months, I most certainly know what is in the game soooo....even though some of the content is a little reveiling..."at least you can dress up your chara" .. NEXT. Furthermore, its a matter of being able to dress up your character personally.. what others are doing is there problem, but atleast I wouldn't have to stare the ass of my toon as she runs away from me in 3rd person.
Yes Im quite familar with the art of Mr. Frazetta, beautiful peices.. cudos to him... but is his art work nessarliy for everyone? No I don't personally think so, not to knock his art, but if i had kids I wouldn't let them buy things like Conan "type" comics, Im guessing you actually read the comics, and know of some of its more or less extreme content.
Also refering to some of my prevous posts.. you know.. the ones past the only one you read... I make mention that I have poured over every website I could get a link to and even the ones that explain chara customization, show alot of the peices of armor on varous toons... funny how most of these sites seem to use the Dark Elf female as their model, using low ground close up shots of the bikini regions. Maybe you can enlightne the rest of use as to which armor combos will act as cover ups.. and is it even useful armor at higher lvls, is it only one type, can you get it right away? And why its not a part of your character custom set up? We are all ears.
As far as Cursade, the only thing I hope to acomplish is public awarness in a community I enjoy, and get honest feed back from individuals intrested in this game, or have something real to say. And no, until they change some of the atire in the game I have no intrest now in playing it, but then again if you scrolled up above your post you would see a letter from Lin 2 CS, that is atleast you had time to do so.
You see folks this is a perfect example of a Troll, although some very well though out facts.. this person has not even taken the time to read through this thread, seen somthing that put down his/her favorite game and came in with only one intent.
I don't pretend to be perfect, or on a crusade.. I try not to post about anything I have no idea about, or atleast have not gathered sufficent info on. Im also not trying to rally, this is my podium, and plateform inwhich to talk about things game related. Guess that hurts you.. Civil trust me (if I remeber correctly, plz correct me if im truly wrong) I have read some of your posts, don't trying to enlighten me as to what is proper or what not.
So your a Troll and Im a Prude.. and we all live happly ever after. Im sorry if all you seen was me attacking your current most favorite game, and missed the rest of what was said.
Who here thinks im repeating myself over and over.. well thats right, it kinda happens when no one actually reads what your saying, I know rage blinds us, before posting we should a screen that pops up with a blue back ground, and flowers so we can calm down some of the raging bulls who come here to only say one thing and just be angry at the world.
Again people thank you for posting.
Second PG-13 now a days is quite distant from what I am use to ... what use to be considered "R" rate is now being added to the content of these movies... and if you actually poured through the posts you would see that Im trying not to invole such things as movies and TV into my points, as we all know that it comes under fire daily.
>>> Hmm, why do you DOWNPLAY everything which would discredit your little crusade?
New to the fantasy genre? That is to laughable.. I m quite familar as to whats out there.. some of it I see as excelent art and others horriable atempts at art. I read Fantasy novels alot, and use to play D&D.. I feel I have farliy stable ground inwhich to work from.
>>> That remains to be seen.
As for SWG thanks for mentioning that.. notice how I said "at least you can dress up your chara" .. ring a bell? I played the game for about 8 months, I most certainly know what is in the game soooo....even though some of the content is a little reveiling..."at least you can dress up your chara" .. NEXT. Furthermore, its a matter of being able to dress up your character personally.. what others are doing is there problem, but atleast I wouldn't have to stare the ass of my toon as she runs away from me in 3rd person.
>>> Did you notice how I said that you could dress up your char in Lineage 2 covering her entire body? How is that ANY different than dressing up your character in SWG or some other game? It's not, but admitting it would discredit everything your saying.
Also refering to some of my prevous posts.. you know.. the ones past the only one you read... I make mention that I have poured over every website I could get a link to and even the ones that explain chara customization, show alot of the peices of armor on varous toons... funny how most of these sites seem to use the Dark Elf female as their model, using low ground close up shots of the bikini regions. Maybe you can enlightne the rest of use as to which armor combos will act as cover ups.. and is it even useful armor at higher lvls, is it only one type, can you get it right away? And why its not a part of your character custom set up? We are all ears.
>>> Just because you can't find something on a fansite, doesn't mean it doesn't exist in the game. All ears huh? Good, make sure this soaks in. Bone Gaitors can be acquired via a quest in the Dark Elf village at level 15. They cover every single inch of skin from the waist down. This isn't your only option either, there are many to choose from. If your worried about the upper half, you can wear body armor.
As far as Cursade, the only thing I hope to acomplish is public awarness in a community I enjoy, and get honest feed back from individuals intrested in this game, or have something real to say. And no, until they change some of the atire in the game I have no intrest now in playing it, but then again if you scrolled up above your post you would see a letter from Lin 2 CS, that is atleast you had time to do so.
>>> I read many of the posts in this thread, but not all 6 pages or whatever its up to now. This is about as far as I'm willing to take this considering the legitimacy of your argument.
You see folks this is a perfect example of a Troll, although some very well though out facts.. this person has not even taken the time to read through this thread, seen somthing that put down his/her favorite game and came in with only one intent.
>>> Do you know what the definition of a troll is? Your entire opening post is a Troll. You weren't trying to bring awareness, you were trying to stir up some support and force Lineage 2 to modify their design. All this with you still being unfamiliar with the product other than what you've seen on fansites.
I don't pretend to be perfect, or on a crusade.. I try not to post about anything I have no idea about, or atleast have not gathered sufficent info on. Im also not trying to rally, this is my podium, and plateform inwhich to talk about things game related. Guess that hurts you.. Civil trust me (if I remeber correctly, plz correct me if im truly wrong) I have read some of your posts, don't trying to enlighten me as to what is proper or what not.
>>> Wanna talk about proper? What about your glorification for Satan? Yes, I'm talking about your name, the devil icons by your name, and the '666' reference in your email address. To be honest, it doesn't bother me, but what about the kids? *laughs* If your going to take the Joesph Leiberman approach, atleast hit it from all angles. I don't claim to be proper and I'm also not the one fighting this crusade remember? So it's ok to go out and murder another player, but to see a females underpants is just too much for you to handle? Ok, you need to get your priorities straight.
So your a Troll and Im a Prude.. and we all live happly ever after. Im sorry if all you seen was me attacking your current most favorite game, and missed the rest of what was said.
>>> Actually, you were half right... you're a troll and a prude. Trolling is used when you're trying to provoke a reaction. Clearly you did this or I wouldn't have replied considering I've been on these forums since 8/03 and rarely ever post. Something this silly couldn't be overlooked though. Atleast take the time to educate yourself with all the facts (other than what you see on a fansite) before going on another crusade. That's all I ask.
Maurader
Someone quoted your post in l2orphus.com
Did you check that out?
After reading your post I can't help but ask whether you are a muslem or orthodox jew.
If that's the case I think everyone should respect his point of view. Because I know there could huge discrepancy between secular and fundamental religious viewpoint.
Thanks guys will do
Regardless of what the responses might be, we are entitled to our opinions.
Thank you very much.
/bow