Well thanks to Hem for posting my message there, it was like puting a gas can to an open flame lol. Well its to be expected considering the forum it was posted in was pure Lin lovers
But through the whole forum there was 3 really well done posts, of course not agreeing with me but each to their own, I do not belive in forcing my opinions on others as some would belive.
As for the other posts, ooo there was alot of angry people there. Im sorry to offend them but I belive some one was going to say it eventually. Im just thankful to have a equal playing feild inwhich to express my points and opinions, and there are people here from all MMORPG playing genres and playing styles.
Here goes;
Originaly posted in the Lineage 2 Orphus Forum
I agree with you that there should be some more clothing options, though even with just the clothing atm, i really cant see how you think the game should be classed as mature. Do you see DE females running round fully naked? now that would be classed as mature. I think that there should be more clothing options though the currect clothing of course should still be there if people feel like using it. I'm not one of these people who makes a female DE so I can look at her ass all day long, but still, if people want to thats up to them, the game is classed as TEEN because the game has nothing in it to make it be classed as mature. Kids now-a-days see things 10 times worse. Thats my opinion but I want to hear if other people agree - Hem Kahn
I do not agree with his point myself, but I do fully understand where he is coming from. My dad came over, sat behind the computer and was playing with the camera angles looking up my mage's skirt. He's 50. I would not want one of my nieces and nephews seeing this, that is true. NC should have an adult option, and a child option. Therefore if a parent wants to allow their 12-16 year old to play the game or has children present they can hit a censor button. It is not the right of NC, or a government body to require censorship, but the individual end user. It wouldn't hurt NC at all to put in a switch for skimpy clothes or fully covered. For myself, I dont mind. But looking from the point of view of others I can definitely see where he is coming from. - VisualAMP
Well, as it was stated in this e-mail by my colleague, DiBiddily, I see his point but do not agree with his opinion. Of course, everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, and they are allowed to complain, but as also stated in this thread, there are other games that can accomodate your needs for moral views and what not.
Dark Elves in any game (well, most any games) that involves having Dark Elves (in the BG series they are referred to as Drow) they are always stated as being free spirits. They are quite comfortable with their body, with who they are, and the fact that they enjoy the occassional sex. I think with the amount of research that has gone into the game done by Maurauder, it shouldn't have come as surprise to see such attire from the Dark Elf female.
Yes, this is a game from Korea, so I suppose it might be typical to see such art and animations. But I rather like the realisim of the clothing movements. I think the skirt thing with the Elves is just keeping in-line with that realism, and was probably not intentional (the movement itself, not the length of the skirt). Again, re-iterating previous points, there are also gears further into the game that take care of the lewd clothing. I guess it's just to further highlight the idea that with less or lower-classed gear, you look like you don't have much on, but as you get higher in lvl and can afford higher-class armor, you'll look more and more clothed as you progress.
Anyhoo, sorry you're giving up on such a great game over such a trivial matter. - ethandirtch
My hats off to you guys in these well done posts, thank you for your opinions.
To answer you Higgs, I like some of the ideals in some of the Neo-pagan religions, but I will keep which ones to myself thank you.
I've read through all of these posts, and believe me, it took a while, and I havent yet seen what the problem is. Sure, regions of private areas are shown on the characters but it's not like the game designers actually make the characters nipples and pubic hair, pardon my french, lol. Lineage II is not designed to be something someone wants to "get jiggy with", lol. I have a five year old niece and she's occasionally seen women in bikinis, and yeah, she's like "uhh" but it's not like she's offended by it. Younger people have no knowledge of those kinds of things and teenagers who do, i think, would choose to "get jiggy" to porno material, which might i add is FREE!! than to a fictional 3D render of a girl on a game with no nudity at all. Plus, WTF is the point of complaining when your reason for complaining is so irrelevant. No one is pressuring you to play the game and if you wanted to play a game you would. No one wants to listen to someone whine about seeing panties on a video game. If you have a problem with this game, marauder, did you have a problem with DoA: Extreme Beach Volleyball?, because that game is way more revealing than a Elf's skirt being raised to see not a thong, but just plain ol' panties when casting a spell. What is your problem man, it's just a game, chill out. Well, not just a game, a really excellent one, at that.
_____________________________________________________ "Pain is the best instructor, yet no one wants to go to his class?"
There's one very important thing you need to keep in mind....KOREAN GAMERS made this game :P It's a well known fact that asian gamers are a little perverted. Hence why all the characters are somewhat beautiful (or handsome...even the orcs), and why the dwarves....well uh....I wont go there. But in anycase, given the type of game this is and the target audience (battle oriented game), I don't expect many people will be dissapointed in the option of little clothing the DE females have. Think about it. They are Dark Elves!!! You are supposed to be roleplaying a Dark Elf Female, an "evil" elf who traditionally wears things that a bit more seductive than normal elves. It's like that in every game, every story, everywhere. Dark Elves are the evil elves and thusly embody that which is considered evil, seduction, sexuality, brutality, vileness, etc. Their history in L2 is no different. I know plenty of girls who would love playing one of those characters, cuz they are sexy and mean. Yes, the elf girl's skirts lift when they cast spells, but I don't think anyone's going to blow a nose bleed from it. It looks natural enough.
I respect that you have an opinion about this issue, however I can't agree in the least with it. If you don't like what's in the game, then you simply don't play it. There are more than enough other MMORGPs out there to choose from. Besides, if you don't like what the Dark Elves are wearing, why are you playing one? If the DE have the option of wearing more clothing, then the other races need the option of wearing less. Remember, it's part of their race. It said in their info they worship the fallen water goddess. An evil goddess. Again we come back to the themes of evil and suduction, etc. I can't imagine any of you would play a Dark Elf good aligned character who wants to cover herself because she is rejecting her culture (drizzt ripoff?) in a game where Dark Elves are against the other light races. Doesn't make sense.
Like I said, I respect your opinion, I don't agree with it, and honestly I think you might be blowing this a little out of proportion. But that's just me, and I don't think of you anything short of a respectable person, though you may be a little more conservative than I like, not that it matters if I like it or not :P
You know the worst part about reading a post like this, besides the amount of time it takes you to do so, is to watch you mind formulate all these great responses to the persons inital post only to find that by the time you've gotten to the end they've already been covered.
*Sigh*
Even still there are a few things that I feel should be mentioned.
1. People need to stop getting down on mauader. I don't agree with what he has to say, but still the guy is doing somthing nobel here. Instead of marching on NCsoft and demanding they remove this game from American living rooms. He's simply stated that he's not going to buy or participate. In addition you all should remember that his attempts to contact NCsoft... I think thats the name of the company, has been to add options for players who don't want to look at character models like that all day. Not prevent any of you from look at. He's intitled to his view just as much as everybody else is, and dispite overwhelming crisism he has been overly gracous to all people posting on this thread. So grats to you.
2. As far as the raiting is concered, I'm with you. Just not for the same reasons. I think all mmorpgs shoudl be raited M+. I think to often parents let their children get into these games without knowing exactly that they are going to be playing online with thousands of other people. All of these people are individuals with their own sets of moral codes and personal moral standereds or lack there of. Parrents needed to be reminded of this before just shelling out their credit card to their children when they ask for it and if it takes a M+ raiting to kick them in the teath to do it, then Hell I'm all for it.
b. On a side note I'm sick of PG content in these games. I want to drink, smoke, and gamble. I want NPC to curse and to imply sexual inuendo. I mean whats a dwarf without a beer in his hand and a pipe in his mouth. SERRIOUSLY. And a M+ raiting might free up some of those possiblities.
- But then again thats why I'm called MR. Vice.-
3. If I where a dev, and was working my ass of making the best game that I could, I sure as hell wouldn't want someone from some other country telling me what I was doing was somehow wrong and offensive. Expessaly if I had been working on it for four long years and just when I'm getting to release the game they decied to pipe up about it. I don't know about to you, but to me Video Games are art and I'm sick of people treating it as if it where a childrens toy. If the dev wants nasty bondage dark elves, then let there be nasty bondage dark elves. It's thier game, and it's and offering to us the consumer. If you don't like it, you can choose to not buy it, if you do than you're going to have to take the game for it's good and for it's ill. Nasty bondage dark elves and all!
I read nearly all 6 pages of this post. I am sure what I am going to say has been covered. But here it is anyway.
While I respect your opinion Marauder. It is a apparent that you are most likely from NA. You see North Americans are still very insecure and very conservative when it comes to sex and nudity. The types of things you would see across the sea on regular Tv would never be shown here. We are still a fairly young society, still unsure of ourselves and part of that is sexual awarness. Where we might see the skirt fly up and go " OMG did you see those panties!!!" other cultures wouldn't even flinch. This is primarily a Korean game. I have spent time in Korea, I can assure you, they wouldn't even flinch. Its just a difference in culture. If you ever get the time, do a little websearching for Asian games on a variety of platforms that never get over to NA. You will see alot of sex and sexual innuendos.
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
This thread really has some interesting points of view. While I can understand your points Maurader I really cant agree with them.
I'm female and if anything would be considered conservative in most of my beliefs yet I plan to play Lineage 2. I think the character models are inspired personally and quite beautiful from the extremes of the elves to the orcs and dwarves. In fact I think they have the best character models in any of the current or planned mmorpgs to date.
Are some of the clothing options very revealing for the dark elves? Of course. As others have said it is very much a part of the dark elf culture that they are attempting to portray. They are the wilder, darker, meaner, and less inhibited side of the normally pure and good elven races. A type of character I personally enjoy role playing.
There are options to fully cover yourself at least for some classes of Dark elves as I have seen in many screenshots so the choice is there at least in some cases.
Revealing clothing is far from the worst thing players of mmorpgs are exposed to and the least of many reasons young children should not play these games without adult supervision. I have seen everything from people misstelling cyber msgs to the group on accident, to two immature idiots emoting a rape in the out of character zone wide channel in Everquest.
I would be much more concerned about what comes from the general populace of a mmorpg then anything that comes from the game designers especially when it is such a minor thing as sexy attire.
For some weird reasons that I cant explain, I never consider Lineage II an option. Dont ask me why, I cant rationalise it, there is something I dislike but I cant pinpoint out what exactly.
On the graphics, I can assure you women will not avoid this game, althought they might very well end up playing males toons more then usual because of some uneasiness with actually playing a toon of the same sex that is almost naked. Most males wont be at ease playing a male toon that is almost naked if they know many women are around either.
I dont think someone will avoid the game because toons are to sexy and suggesting to much, they will just play other sex or something. Most women would not play women in such a game, they will just play males toons and enjoy what they have to enjoy.
Is that a mistake, yeah, a little mistake. The devs are prolly a bunch of near teens(mental age) and they might need those graphics to actually make a good game and work fine on others topics.
I would not banned this game myself althought for this, but like I say earlier, there is something else about the game I feel is not *right* and this is why I will not play it, but dont prevent yourself only on graphics. Dont ask me to rationalize it, I cant. But the graphics that are to sexy should not be an issue, it is only a game and just think twice before flirting someone playing a female toon!
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Sorry I have been working alot latly so I have not been able to respond to the last few posts.
Thank you guys for atleast reading through all the posts put up, at least it gives you an idea where Im coming from.
They are really well developed posts, which i can say far surpase my own writing skills lol, my biggest problem has always been trying to get to anypoint with out tripping over my words.
Im just glad there are people out there who can sit down and say.. I see what hes saying But... Or, I agree/disagree But..
It shows that even if we can't all agree on what we feel is right, we have the maturity to debate the idea/topic at hand, not toss fuel on a fire (although some may have felt I was doing).
Thank you all for the wonderful posts, and I have gotten more feed back than what I could have possibly imagined.
I don't think a cartoon female character in a bikini is going to ruin anyone's mind regardless of age. That said, I don't think any character should be forced to start basically almost naked. At least start with a tunic that will cover the basic.. um.. area's. For those who want to see people in bikini's, I am sure that there will be enough of them running around to satisfy anyone.
After all, look at it from the female point of view. Would like seeing a bunch a buff guys running around in a thong? Well.. some of you probably would, but no thanks for me, thats not my kinda thing.
Comments
Sorry to be a pest but I couldn't find it, do you have a link there?
Sorry
nm found it sry
Im stunned
Thanks again
Well thanks to Hem for posting my message there, it was like puting a gas can to an open flame lol. Well its to be expected considering the forum it was posted in was pure Lin lovers
But through the whole forum there was 3 really well done posts, of course not agreeing with me but each to their own, I do not belive in forcing my opinions on others as some would belive.
As for the other posts, ooo there was alot of angry people there. Im sorry to offend them but I belive some one was going to say it eventually. Im just thankful to have a equal playing feild inwhich to express my points and opinions, and there are people here from all MMORPG playing genres and playing styles.
Here goes;
Originaly posted in the Lineage 2 Orphus Forum
I agree with you that there should be some more clothing options, though even with just the clothing atm, i really cant see how you think the game should be classed as mature. Do you see DE females running round fully naked? now that would be classed as mature. I think that there should be more clothing options though the currect clothing of course should still be there if people feel like using it. I'm not one of these people who makes a female DE so I can look at her ass all day long, but still, if people want to thats up to them, the game is classed as TEEN because the game has nothing in it to make it be classed as mature. Kids now-a-days see things 10 times worse.
Thats my opinion but I want to hear if other people agree - Hem Kahn
I do not agree with his point myself, but I do fully understand where he is coming from. My dad came over, sat behind the computer and was playing with the camera angles looking up my mage's skirt. He's 50. I would not want one of my nieces and nephews seeing this, that is true. NC should have an adult option, and a child option. Therefore if a parent wants to allow their 12-16 year old to play the game or has children present they can hit a censor button. It is not the right of NC, or a government body to require censorship, but the individual end user. It wouldn't hurt NC at all to put in a switch for skimpy clothes or fully covered. For myself, I dont mind. But looking from the point of view of others I can definitely see where he is coming from. - VisualAMP
Well, as it was stated in this e-mail by my colleague, DiBiddily, I see his point but do not agree with his opinion. Of course, everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, and they are allowed to complain, but as also stated in this thread, there are other games that can accomodate your needs for moral views and what not.
Dark Elves in any game (well, most any games) that involves having Dark Elves (in the BG series they are referred to as Drow) they are always stated as being free spirits. They are quite comfortable with their body, with who they are, and the fact that they enjoy the occassional sex. I think with the amount of research that has gone into the game done by Maurauder, it shouldn't have come as surprise to see such attire from the Dark Elf female.
Yes, this is a game from Korea, so I suppose it might be typical to see such art and animations. But I rather like the realisim of the clothing movements. I think the skirt thing with the Elves is just keeping in-line with that realism, and was probably not intentional (the movement itself, not the length of the skirt). Again, re-iterating previous points, there are also gears further into the game that take care of the lewd clothing. I guess it's just to further highlight the idea that with less or lower-classed gear, you look like you don't have much on, but as you get higher in lvl and can afford higher-class armor, you'll look more and more clothed as you progress.
Anyhoo, sorry you're giving up on such a great game over such a trivial matter. - ethandirtch
My hats off to you guys in these well done posts, thank you for your opinions.
To answer you Higgs, I like some of the ideals in some of the Neo-pagan religions, but I will keep which ones to myself thank you.
I've read through all of these posts, and believe me, it took a while, and I havent yet seen what the problem is. Sure, regions of private areas are shown on the characters but it's not like the game designers actually make the characters nipples and pubic hair, pardon my french, lol. Lineage II is not designed to be something someone wants to "get jiggy with", lol. I have a five year old niece and she's occasionally seen women in bikinis, and yeah, she's like "uhh" but it's not like she's offended by it. Younger people have no knowledge of those kinds of things and teenagers who do, i think, would choose to "get jiggy" to porno material, which might i add is FREE!! than to a fictional 3D render of a girl on a game with no nudity at all. Plus, WTF is the point of complaining when your reason for complaining is so irrelevant. No one is pressuring you to play the game and if you wanted to play a game you would. No one wants to listen to someone whine about seeing panties on a video game. If you have a problem with this game, marauder, did you have a problem with DoA: Extreme Beach Volleyball?, because that game is way more revealing than a Elf's skirt being raised to see not a thong, but just plain ol' panties when casting a spell. What is your problem man, it's just a game, chill out. Well, not just a game, a really excellent one, at that.
_____________________________________________________
"Pain is the best instructor, yet no one wants to go to his class?"
There's one very important thing you need to keep in mind....KOREAN GAMERS made this game :P It's a well known fact that asian gamers are a little perverted. Hence why all the characters are somewhat beautiful (or handsome...even the orcs), and why the dwarves....well uh....I wont go there. But in anycase, given the type of game this is and the target audience (battle oriented game), I don't expect many people will be dissapointed in the option of little clothing the DE females have. Think about it. They are Dark Elves!!! You are supposed to be roleplaying a Dark Elf Female, an "evil" elf who traditionally wears things that a bit more seductive than normal elves. It's like that in every game, every story, everywhere. Dark Elves are the evil elves and thusly embody that which is considered evil, seduction, sexuality, brutality, vileness, etc. Their history in L2 is no different. I know plenty of girls who would love playing one of those characters, cuz they are sexy and mean. Yes, the elf girl's skirts lift when they cast spells, but I don't think anyone's going to blow a nose bleed from it. It looks natural enough.
I respect that you have an opinion about this issue, however I can't agree in the least with it. If you don't like what's in the game, then you simply don't play it. There are more than enough other MMORGPs out there to choose from. Besides, if you don't like what the Dark Elves are wearing, why are you playing one? If the DE have the option of wearing more clothing, then the other races need the option of wearing less. Remember, it's part of their race. It said in their info they worship the fallen water goddess. An evil goddess. Again we come back to the themes of evil and suduction, etc. I can't imagine any of you would play a Dark Elf good aligned character who wants to cover herself because she is rejecting her culture (drizzt ripoff?) in a game where Dark Elves are against the other light races. Doesn't make sense.
Like I said, I respect your opinion, I don't agree with it, and honestly I think you might be blowing this a little out of proportion. But that's just me, and I don't think of you anything short of a respectable person, though you may be a little more conservative than I like, not that it matters if I like it or not :P
Pune!
For the Horde!!
You know the worst part about reading a post like this, besides the amount of time it takes you to do so, is to watch you mind formulate all these great responses to the persons inital post only to find that by the time you've gotten to the end they've already been covered.
*Sigh*
Even still there are a few things that I feel should be mentioned.
1. People need to stop getting down on mauader. I don't agree with what he has to say, but still the guy is doing somthing nobel here. Instead of marching on NCsoft and demanding they remove this game from American living rooms. He's simply stated that he's not going to buy or participate. In addition you all should remember that his attempts to contact NCsoft... I think thats the name of the company, has been to add options for players who don't want to look at character models like that all day. Not prevent any of you from look at. He's intitled to his view just as much as everybody else is, and dispite overwhelming crisism he has been overly gracous to all people posting on this thread. So grats to you.
2. As far as the raiting is concered, I'm with you. Just not for the same reasons. I think all mmorpgs shoudl be raited M+. I think to often parents let their children get into these games without knowing exactly that they are going to be playing online with thousands of other people. All of these people are individuals with their own sets of moral codes and personal moral standereds or lack there of. Parrents needed to be reminded of this before just shelling out their credit card to their children when they ask for it and if it takes a M+ raiting to kick them in the teath to do it, then Hell I'm all for it.
b. On a side note I'm sick of PG content in these games. I want to drink, smoke, and gamble. I want NPC to curse and to imply sexual inuendo. I mean whats a dwarf without a beer in his hand and a pipe in his mouth. SERRIOUSLY. And a M+ raiting might free up some of those possiblities.
- But then again thats why I'm called MR. Vice.-
3. If I where a dev, and was working my ass of making the best game that I could, I sure as hell wouldn't want someone from some other country telling me what I was doing was somehow wrong and offensive. Expessaly if I had been working on it for four long years and just when I'm getting to release the game they decied to pipe up about it. I don't know about to you, but to me Video Games are art and I'm sick of people treating it as if it where a childrens toy. If the dev wants nasty bondage dark elves, then let there be nasty bondage dark elves. It's thier game, and it's and offering to us the consumer. If you don't like it, you can choose to not buy it, if you do than you're going to have to take the game for it's good and for it's ill. Nasty bondage dark elves and all!
MR VICE
I read nearly all 6 pages of this post. I am sure what I am going to say has been covered. But here it is anyway.
While I respect your opinion Marauder. It is a apparent that you are most likely from NA. You see North Americans are still very insecure and very conservative when it comes to sex and nudity. The types of things you would see across the sea on regular Tv would never be shown here. We are still a fairly young society, still unsure of ourselves and part of that is sexual awarness. Where we might see the skirt fly up and go " OMG did you see those panties!!!" other cultures wouldn't even flinch. This is primarily a Korean game. I have spent time in Korea, I can assure you, they wouldn't even flinch. Its just a difference in culture. If you ever get the time, do a little websearching for Asian games on a variety of platforms that never get over to NA. You will see alot of sex and sexual innuendos.
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
I agree that it's probably a bit risqu
This thread really has some interesting points of view. While I can understand your points Maurader I really cant agree with them.
I'm female and if anything would be considered conservative in most of my beliefs yet I plan to play Lineage 2. I think the character models are inspired personally and quite beautiful from the extremes of the elves to the orcs and dwarves. In fact I think they have the best character models in any of the current or planned mmorpgs to date.
Are some of the clothing options very revealing for the dark elves? Of course. As others have said it is very much a part of the dark elf culture that they are attempting to portray. They are the wilder, darker, meaner, and less inhibited side of the normally pure and good elven races. A type of character I personally enjoy role playing.
There are options to fully cover yourself at least for some classes of Dark elves as I have seen in many screenshots so the choice is there at least in some cases.
Revealing clothing is far from the worst thing players of mmorpgs are exposed to and the least of many reasons young children should not play these games without adult supervision. I have seen everything from people misstelling cyber msgs to the group on accident, to two immature idiots emoting a rape in the out of character zone wide channel in Everquest.
I would be much more concerned about what comes from the general populace of a mmorpg then anything that comes from the game designers especially when it is such a minor thing as sexy attire.
For some weird reasons that I cant explain, I never consider Lineage II an option. Dont ask me why, I cant rationalise it, there is something I dislike but I cant pinpoint out what exactly.
On the graphics, I can assure you women will not avoid this game, althought they might very well end up playing males toons more then usual because of some uneasiness with actually playing a toon of the same sex that is almost naked. Most males wont be at ease playing a male toon that is almost naked if they know many women are around either.
I dont think someone will avoid the game because toons are to sexy and suggesting to much, they will just play other sex or something. Most women would not play women in such a game, they will just play males toons and enjoy what they have to enjoy.
Is that a mistake, yeah, a little mistake. The devs are prolly a bunch of near teens(mental age) and they might need those graphics to actually make a good game and work fine on others topics.
I would not banned this game myself althought for this, but like I say earlier, there is something else about the game I feel is not *right* and this is why I will not play it, but dont prevent yourself only on graphics. Dont ask me to rationalize it, I cant. But the graphics that are to sexy should not be an issue, it is only a game and just think twice before flirting someone playing a female toon!
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Sorry I have been working alot latly so I have not been able to respond to the last few posts.
Thank you guys for atleast reading through all the posts put up, at least it gives you an idea where Im coming from.
They are really well developed posts, which i can say far surpase my own writing skills lol, my biggest problem has always been trying to get to anypoint with out tripping over my words.
Im just glad there are people out there who can sit down and say.. I see what hes saying But... Or, I agree/disagree But..
It shows that even if we can't all agree on what we feel is right, we have the maturity to debate the idea/topic at hand, not toss fuel on a fire (although some may have felt I was doing).
Thank you all for the wonderful posts, and I have gotten more feed back than what I could have possibly imagined.
Sir Sven
I don't think a cartoon female character in a bikini is going to ruin anyone's mind regardless of age. That said, I don't think any character should be forced to start basically almost naked. At least start with a tunic that will cover the basic.. um.. area's. For those who want to see people in bikini's, I am sure that there will be enough of them running around to satisfy anyone.
After all, look at it from the female point of view. Would like seeing a bunch a buff guys running around in a thong? Well.. some of you probably would, but no thanks for me, thats not my kinda thing.