Originally posted by Concord7 Connecting the dots for the non-business types-
Given that forum activity is a predictor of a Mmo’s popularity, it stands to reason that popularity translates into subscriptions. Subscriptions = $$$$
You are not taking into consideration the station pass...
There are ALOT of people who post on the swgf forums who do not play the game. They might have at one point but now play EQ/EQII/Matrix. They just have their flaming priveleges for swg.
So that actually makes the OPs post a little less reliable.
You are assuming that SOE actually has business sense. I stopped doing that a while back. It did not make sense to REPLACE SWG with the CU and risk losing half their subscribers, yet they did. Even though they had 2 weeks' notice from the uproar it caused on Test Center. People were categorically stating they would quit. And a lot of them did.
It has not made sense that the CU went in on April 15, 2005 and yet here were are at August 24, 2006 still wanting pre-CU servers. That is serious lost revenue!
No my friend, do not attempt to apply logic to these morons. SOE is the village idiot of the gaming industry.
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by KzinKiller
Originally posted by nthnaoun Granted not as many as Pre-CU, but I really feel that people look at Pre-CU with rose colored glasses. I haven't experienced Pre-CU myself, but I have played many large MMO's and the trend is the same. A game, if decent, will start of strong, but over time will dwindle in numbers as newer games come out. This and the fact that Pre-CU was flawed according to many vets, I am thinking that Pre-CU was not as great as people say it was. I feel is was great for those that never played a MMO or a sandbox MMO before and loved the freedom of being in the SWG virtual world. But the game was badly bugged and incomplete then and to return to that point would turn a lot of people off. Sure many would resub to play, but after that luster wears off and people remember the things that they complained about in the Pre-CU era, people will start quitting again, writing off SWG as a dead game.
Can't argue with that ... because pre-CU would be meaningless without better quality coding and a better answer to Jedi issues than they came up with the first time around.
But I haven't read anything to make me think they've improved quality control noticeably in the NGE either, publishes are still pushed out with major bugs that Test Center revealed but they didn't fix before Publishing. Serious issues still languish for weeks and months. And every vet that is playing the NGE has to be looking over their shoulder constantly in fear of the next major change that will invalidate a lot of work they put in.
Trader revemp and PvP Ranking System, anyone?
I know the community on this forums information is limited, because you all don't talk with most members in-game, so I will try to tell you exactly what the vets in game and the newer people are thinking and saying.
Nothing anyone has said, has indicated that the Publishes are pushed out before they should. In fact, people are pretty happy and grow happier with each publish. NOW, there are a lot of hopes and concerns with the trader revamp. Most except some of the NGE newbs want decay, engineering, and meaningful crafting back into the system. So a lot of Vets praying that SOE doesn't screw it up, but are pretty confident that they will get it right this time. But again, people are mostly just waiting to see what will happen and hope it's for the best. As for the PvP ranking system, everyone I have talked to on the Rebel side in Ahazi like the idea and can't wait. Faction ranks will finally be worth something and will be hard to obtain. No more Colonels running around that got their ranks off of Smuggler bought faction.
The fact of the matter is, when the NGE hit, SWG hit rock bottom. So improvements are easy and the only way they can go is up. Everything they have done since the NGE Nuke hit SWG, has made the game better and people are starting to have fun again. The biggest bitch in game right now is everyone looking the same and PvE being too easy. So people are really looking forward to the trader revamp, hoping that it will finally add diversity back into the game.
There are so many things wrong with your assessment it is plain sickening. I am sure Shayde will be on later to help drill this into you.
You didn't play pre-cu so you do not really know what the real vets might think. THOUSANDS of vets quit who will never come back unless classic servers ARE implemented. That is a well known fact.
You are only deluding yourself if you think everything is happy-go-lucky in game as well. There are just as many negative posts as there ever were. The big difference is that the new mods are very heavy handed with their deletions. I can't tell you how many posts are deleted each night when I have them all opened up in tabs on firefox. It is pitiful how much they censor over there now. I still have friends who play on Ahazi and I am hearing a completely different story than you tell. They say it plain sucks. It is still a ghost "galaxy".
I don't think anyone puts any stock into your assessment of the vets when you say "So a lot of Vets praying that SOE doesn't screw it up, but are pretty confident that they will get it right this time."
They have never gotten ANYTHING right so far. Everything they do only loses them more subscriptions. You absolutely cannot polish a turd.
I can't speak alot about PVP as it stands now because I quit the farce 2 weeks after the NGE. However, PVP has never been what this game was about. It may be now because there isn't much else to do. Jedi as a starting class removed the long term goals and point of the game. They should have made Jedi even harder to obtain not made it into a starting class. Essentially they made KOTOR without all the fun, excitement, and content.
I already have my popcorn ready for the "trader revamp". That should be a hoot.
It does not matter what "improvements" they make. The damage that was done was permanent. Thousands of people who WERE LIED to will never go back. Also, with jedi as a starting profession, the game is a complete joke. Unless they make jedi like it was except harder to obtain the game will never have a chance. That is why the "ostrich" servers have so much of a following. When those servers become active the nge failure will be complete.
I have to ask the same question to you. Who makes you God over peoples life where you "know" for certain if people will come back to the game or not? People were lied to, but it was the Devs choice and within their rights to change the game. What is it with you people and Jedi? Why does Jedi have to be something hard to get? It's obvious it's what the playerbase wants, because in CU almost everyone was grinding for it and 70% of the population now is Jedi. Why does it hurt your feelings so bad to have Jedi easy to obtain. What matters is that the game should be fun. What is it that makes Jedi easy to obtain unfun?
Don't get me wrong, I would rather have it as a Vet reward, where you unlock it by playing for a year or two, but proving that you can grind a lot for a Jedi doesn't say anything and really isn't earning it either. Grinding is the dumbest thing put in MMO's. Unlocking Jedi as a Vet reward is a hell of a lot better. That way people can enjoy the game and play the way they want and if they really want to be a Jedi, they can choose it as a reward later on.
But it really kills me the way you people feel that Jedi has to be hard to get. It just sounds selfish and also like people want it to be hard, so that those who have it can be elite, which is horrible in a game world. No one likes elitists.
There are so many things wrong with your assessment it is plain sickening. I am sure Shayde will be on later to help drill this into you. And what makes you think I give a shit what Shayde thinks?
You didn't play pre-cu so you do not really know what the real vets might think. THOUSANDS of vets quit who will never come back unless classic servers ARE implemented. That is a well known fact. What makes you think I don't know Pre-CU vets that still are playing? While it's a well known fact on these boards, it isn't everywhere else. In-game, most people haven't heard of these stupid boards and also didn't know that people are still complaining about this game. They only read the SWG boards and occasionally the EMU boards. I've read the poor reviews on other sites, but no other forum that I know of has as many low life people on it still complaining about a change to a GAME like this forum. It is immature to keep those that are playing the game from talking about it and until you all realize this and stop it, you all won't really be worth reasoning with.
You are only deluding yourself if you think everything is happy-go-lucky in game as well. There are just as many negative posts as there ever were. The big difference is that the new mods are very heavy handed with their deletions. I can't tell you how many posts are deleted each night when I have them all opened up in tabs on firefox. It is pitiful how much they censor over there now. I still have friends who play on Ahazi and I am hearing a completely different story than you tell. They say it plain sucks. It is still a ghost "galaxy". It is like a ghost town galaxy. If you bother to read my other posts you would know that. Your friend may be Imp or may not have been accepted into the Alliance fold. The Alliance vent community are a mature bunch and are having fun. But of course everyone hates the fact that SOE killed the Pre-NGE game and would leave in a heart beat if EMU opened or SOE made Classic servers. But the point, is that they are still having fun with the game as it is.
I don't think anyone puts any stock into your assessment of the vets when you say "So a lot of Vets praying that SOE doesn't screw it up, but are pretty confident that they will get it right this time." I don't give a shit if they do or not. My life doesn't revolve around what others think of me or believe. I am an honest person and I never lie. I try to give you all insight on how the community I am involved with feels. I do it as a courtesy, not for approval.
They have never gotten ANYTHING right so far. Everything they do only loses them more subscriptions. You absolutely cannot polish a turd. Your wrong and are just talking out your ass and repeating the same dribble every other vet has spewed. Try to be original.
I can't speak alot about PVP as it stands now because I quit the farce 2 weeks after the NGE. However, PVP has never been what this game was about. It may be now because there isn't much else to do. Jedi as a starting class removed the long term goals and point of the game. They should have made Jedi even harder to obtain not made it into a starting class. Essentially they made KOTOR without all the fun, excitement, and content. Well, I don't know what is with all you people, but who are you to tell people what is fun and how to have it? If people really want to play Jedi, why should they have to play a profession that they do not want to play for months and months on end? Games are meant for fun, not for work. But I of course would have rather had to work for my Jedi and I was 3 branches into my unlock when the NGE BOMB hit, but I don't cry over spilt milk.
I already have my popcorn ready for the "trader revamp". That should be a hoot. You should try getting a life instead. Maybe go see a movie, go camping, fishing, just something. It's unhealthy to derive excitement from a kids forum.
I have to ask the same question to you. Who makes you God over peoples life where you "know" for certain if people will come back to the game or not? People were lied to, but it was the Devs choice and within their rights to change the game. What is it with you people and Jedi? Why does Jedi have to be something hard to get? It's obvious it's what the playerbase wants, because in CU almost everyone was grinding for it and 70% of the population now is Jedi. Why does it hurt your feelings so bad to have Jedi easy to obtain. What matters is that the game should be fun. What is it that makes Jedi easy to obtain unfun?
Don't get me wrong, I would rather have it as a Vet reward, where you unlock it by playing for a year or two, but proving that you can grind a lot for a Jedi doesn't say anything and really isn't earning it either. Grinding is the dumbest thing put in MMO's. Unlocking Jedi as a Vet reward is a hell of a lot better. That way people can enjoy the game and play the way they want and if they really want to be a Jedi, they can choose it as a reward later on. But it really kills me the way you people feel that Jedi has to be hard to get. It just sounds selfish and also like people want it to be hard, so that those who have it can be elite, which is horrible in a game world. No one likes elitists.
It matters because letting Jedi be so numerous means that they can't be as powerful as everyone envisions Jedi as being relative to non-Jedi .... because in the end it's a multi-class game and game design has to matter.
Did many people grind for it? Yes. Nearly everyone? Well, not me. And many who did grind for it would not have if there had been a better system in place. The Jedi mistakes by no means started with the NGE, but it was the coup de grace on the game's potential to be great.
I have to ask the same question to you. Who makes you God over peoples life where you "know" for certain if people will come back to the game or not? People were lied to, but it was the Devs choice and within their rights to change the game. What is it with you people and Jedi? Why does Jedi have to be something hard to get? It's obvious it's what the playerbase wants, because in CU almost everyone was grinding for it and 70% of the population now is Jedi. Why does it hurt your feelings so bad to have Jedi easy to obtain. What matters is that the game should be fun. What is it that makes Jedi easy to obtain unfun? Don't get me wrong, I would rather have it as a Vet reward, where you unlock it by playing for a year or two, but proving that you can grind a lot for a Jedi doesn't say anything and really isn't earning it either. Grinding is the dumbest thing put in MMO's. Unlocking Jedi as a Vet reward is a hell of a lot better. That way people can enjoy the game and play the way they want and if they really want to be a Jedi, they can choose it as a reward later on. But it really kills me the way you people feel that Jedi has to be hard to get. It just sounds selfish and also like people want it to be hard, so that those who have it can be elite, which is horrible in a game world. No one likes elitists.
It matters because letting Jedi be so numerous means that they can't be as powerful as everyone envisions Jedi as being relative to non-Jedi .... because in the end it's a multi-class game and game design has to matter.
Did many people grind for it? Yes. Nearly everyone? Well, not me. And many who did grind for it would not have if there had been a better system in place. The Jedi mistakes by no means started with the NGE, but it was the coup de grace on the game's potential to be great.
But what makes a Jedi powerful in a game? Killing everyone easily in PvE? Killing everyone in PvP? Having powerful looking abilities? Describe powerful in the sense you are wanting them to be. Remember though, gamers are competitive and if Jedi are the be all end all of Professions, then Jedi is what most will be after, if for nothing else, just to compete. Several people have admitted to this. So eventually, you will have most people as Jedi anyways, you are just prolonging the inevitable.
I would love for there to be a better system in place and I would love for my Jedi to have to be earned, but my point is that I see the logic in allowing it to be a starter profession and balancing it with the rest of them. If the majority of the population wants Jedi, why not just give it to them to keep the subscriptions coming? Or you can flip it around and say, why not make it harder for them, so they have a reason to keep paying. But then you have the time spent vrs reward given problem. If someone is grinding or whatever for almost a year, they expect an uber class. But this provides us with an unbalance in the game and most competitive players want to be on the side of the unbalance that gives them the most power.
But then again, it could have been balanced in the risk vrs reward column and also by making it know that to kill a Jedi, it will take a group or so. But then you would just have full Jedi groups running around invincible, which would eventually become boring for those that don't want Jedi. These are problems that we dealt with over the life of this game, and I believe this is why they balanced Jedi and made them a starting profession.
Originally posted by Tookah I can't comment on how many people play the game but I can say that in game right now it is still full of bugs and empty of players .
True at least on the empty players part. As far as bugs go, I personally haven't found enough bugs to say it is full of them. But others might have. But yeah, in my typical gaming session, I play with around 3-10 people, sometimes during the week if I am PvPing it shoots up to 20-30. But that is not counting the Imps we are playing against.
Originally posted by nthnaoun Did many people grind for it? Yes. Nearly everyone? Well, not me. And many who did grind for it would not have if there had been a better system in place. The Jedi mistakes by no means started with the NGE, but it was the coup de grace on the game's potential to be great. But what makes a Jedi powerful in a game? Killing everyone easily in PvE? Killing everyone in PvP? Having powerful looking abilities? Describe powerful in the sense you are wanting them to be. Remember though, gamers are competitive and if Jedi are the be all end all of Professions, then Jedi is what most will be after, if for nothing else, just to compete. Several people have admitted to this. So eventually, you will have most people as Jedi anyways, you are just prolonging the inevitable. I would love for there to be a better system in place and I would love for my Jedi to have to be earned, but my point is that I see the logic in allowing it to be a starter profession and balancing it with the rest of them. If the majority of the population wants Jedi, why not just give it to them to keep the subscriptions coming? Or you can flip it around and say, why not make it harder for them, so they have a reason to keep paying. But then you have the time spent vrs reward given problem. If someone is grinding or whatever for almost a year, they expect an uber class. But this provides us with an unbalance in the game and most competitive players want to be on the side of the unbalance that gives them the most power. But then again, it could have been balanced in the risk vrs reward column and also by making it know that to kill a Jedi, it will take a group or so. But then you would just have full Jedi groups running around invincible, which would eventually become boring for those that don't want Jedi. These are problems that we dealt with over the life of this game, and I believe this is why they balanced Jedi and made them a starting profession.
That was the major design screw-up, having a multi-class game with an Alpha class. The original designers recognized how this could ruin any chance of the game remaining a playable multi-class game, and pushed a design that was meant to limit Jedi numbers. They were pressured to abandon that design ... with unfortunate and entirely predictable results, in terms of game quality. So instead of an immersive sandbox world, we got the cheap and rather dull 'Jedi v. Bounty Hunter' that the game has devolved to, and the game lost tens of thousands of really interesting players who just aren't attracted to this design.
Originally posted by shirlnt Originally posted by Wildcat84 Its hard to even say that the NGE is the NGE, it's undergone so many changes (mostly hacking back in pre-CU stuff).
Basically that will continue as long as the subscriber trend line is downward. At some point if that continues you have to believe that classic servers will be an option, if only to halt the nosedive and buy them time to "finish" the NGE and keep the game cash positive.
Along these same lines, playing "devil's advocate," let's say that one day NGE will be the greatest version of SWG because it is getting better and better with each new publish and in a few months all the expertise systems will be complete. It would still make sense to implement a couple of classic servers doing nothing but maintaining the servers (leave the pre-CU game as-is, take it or leave it, just do what it takes to keep the servers up and running). The classic servers would keep people playing who wanted pre-CU and would bring back some of the vets. The people playing classic servers would see all the improvements happening in NGE/evolving servers, by reading the forums/visiting NGE servers after publishes to check them out/hearing from other players how great the updates are, and slowly make their way (or even quickly once some really popular publish hit) to the NGE servers. Eventually, enough of the pre-CU fans would be won over to the current game system that the pre-CU servers would no longer be needed. At the same time, the negative press about SWG/SOE would die down as so many of the people begging for pre-CU would have gone back to the game.
Now this is freaking funny.
I will bet on Track record and history not to mention WHERE THE NGE STANDS RIGHT NOW after 9 months...
In fact I can safely say, your not going to see the NGE suceed. Sorry, that idea is just not gonna happen as we predicted a long time ago. (You would have seen success in the first 4 months if this was the case).
You are in a dream world even after 9 months of Spin and lies... broken code and bad PR-- you still have not woke up to what your in.
Good luck to you, you will need it.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by Tagurit
What world are you in???
It does not matter what "improvements" they make. The damage that was done was permanent. Thousands of people who WERE LIED to will never go back. Also, with jedi as a starting profession, the game is a complete joke. Unless they make jedi like it was except harder to obtain the game will never have a chance. That is why the "ostrich" servers have so much of a following. When those servers become active the nge failure will be complete.
I have to ask the same question to you. Who makes you God over peoples life where you "know" for certain if people will come back to the game or not? People were lied to, but it was the Devs choice and within their rights to change the game. What is it with you people and Jedi? Why does Jedi have to be something hard to get? It's obvious it's what the playerbase wants, because in CU almost everyone was grinding for it and 70% of the population now is Jedi. Why does it hurt your feelings so bad to have Jedi easy to obtain. What matters is that the game should be fun. What is it that makes Jedi easy to obtain unfun?
Don't get me wrong, I would rather have it as a Vet reward, where you unlock it by playing for a year or two, but proving that you can grind a lot for a Jedi doesn't say anything and really isn't earning it either. Grinding is the dumbest thing put in MMO's. Unlocking Jedi as a Vet reward is a hell of a lot better. That way people can enjoy the game and play the way they want and if they really want to be a Jedi, they can choose it as a reward later on.
But it really kills me the way you people feel that Jedi has to be hard to get. It just sounds selfish and also like people want it to be hard, so that those who have it can be elite, which is horrible in a game world. No one likes elitists.
The concept of Jedi in the game and Timeline made more sense in the (Hard to get and live in mode) -- aka RISK vs REWARD at one time there was balance and point to things, with great risk, decay -- the circle of balance.
What you know nothing about is by some bad word of mouth, what you do not know is the FEEL to the game was so much better then, also imagine 1000 people in front of you in Coronet , buying , trading and commerce going on.
There is so many things that were good about pre-CU and CU vs what they did to get to the NGE level of play.
Just because you rip things out, dummy them down to nothing, take away the goals, take out the risk -- DOES not mean it will make for a good game.
In fact as it has proven just the opposite. The NGE is what YOU DO NOT DO in a game, people are already using this in college as a reference of what not to do in business... I mean people I know refer to this game or when they make a mistake and do not want to take blame as a "OOps, I Smedley'd" ---
People NEED to look at the NGE for what it is.. not for what it "MAY BE SOMEDAY" -- since they seem to only be able to look at the "PRE-CU - or CU" for what it was -- then that is only fair.
Pie in the sky crap at this point is a joke.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by Tookah I can't comment on how many people play the game but I can say that in game right now it is still full of bugs and empty of players .
True at least on the empty players part. As far as bugs go, I personally haven't found enough bugs to say it is full of them. But others might have. But yeah, in my typical gaming session, I play with around 3-10 people, sometimes during the week if I am PvPing it shoots up to 20-30. But that is not counting the Imps we are playing against. So, 30 x2 = 60 pvpers.
SOE is developing a pvp revamp for 60 x 25 (servers) = 1500 players. At the same time, they have 10000-15000 concurrent users logged in.
Waste of resources.
This is why SWG utlimately ended the way it has, catering to wrong people.
"I have to ask the same question to you. Who makes you God over peoples life where you "know" for certain if people will come back to the game or not? People were lied to, but it was the Devs choice and within their rights to change the game."
What does that have to do with Jedi or ranting about another person(s) post about jedi.
I don't care if people come back.. or they were lied to. I don't care if it was the devs right to change the game.
Any person with a brain cell still active or a clue bought at ebay.. knows they lost a ton of subscribers due to changes they made. In a corporate enviroment that is ALL that matters.
Jedi don't matter.. whether its a grind or a starting profession.
What does matter that all these rights the devs exercised cost a corporation a lot of profit and that trickles down to investors.
At some point those investors ask questions and guess what... They are god over that developers life.
That's the part I don't get.. how any intellegent person at SOE could think these changes were good and keep cointinuing down a road that is costing them more money.
I'm replying with this because of what I quoted from Nthnaoun.
I really don't care about jedi debates.. but if you wanna debate devs rights to change things... there is a whole more realistic side of that than what any of us here feel/think. Its called answering the questions about the financial losses to investors. Which every publicly traded company has to do..
Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by Tagurit There are so many things wrong with your assessment it is plain sickening. I am sure Shayde will be on later to help drill this into you. And what makes you think I give a shit what Shayde thinks? I am pretty sure that no one on this forum but Obraik and Pirg give a shit what you think. I love to read your whining and dillusions of grandeur of how "successful" the nge is. It is very comical.
You didn't play pre-cu so you do not really know what the real vets might think. THOUSANDS of vets quit who will never come back unless classic servers ARE implemented. That is a well known fact. What makes you think I don't know Pre-CU vets that still are playing? While it's a well known fact on these boards, it isn't everywhere else. In-game, most people haven't heard of these stupid boards and also didn't know that people are still complaining about this game. They only read the SWG boards and occasionally the EMU boards. I've read the poor reviews on other sites, but no other forum that I know of has as many low life people on it still complaining about a change to a GAME like this forum. It is immature to keep those that are playing the game from talking about it and until you all realize this and stop it, you all won't really be worth reasoning with. Again you delude yourself. I do not deny that there are some pre-cu vets still playing. You know that the vast percentage of them want pre-cu back and are not happy with the nge..right? If you don't realize this, than you are again delusional. If there are people in game who DON'T know about the MMORPG boards then I would say that the nge has accomplished its goal and attracted the right target audience (naive kids).
Also, your own precious site (official forum boards) has numerous negative posts posted on it by the minute. The mods are very heavy handed there and delete those posts as soon as they appear. I really don't give a frogs fat ass what you think or talk about to be honest. Just know that when you post your biased drivel applauding the game and speaking for vets, you will be called out.
You are only deluding yourself if you think everything is happy-go-lucky in game as well. There are just as many negative posts as there ever were. The big difference is that the new mods are very heavy handed with their deletions. I can't tell you how many posts are deleted each night when I have them all opened up in tabs on firefox. It is pitiful how much they censor over there now. I still have friends who play on Ahazi and I am hearing a completely different story than you tell. They say it plain sucks. It is still a ghost "galaxy". It is like a ghost town galaxy. If you bother to read my other posts you would know that. Your friend may be Imp or may not have been accepted into the Alliance fold. The Alliance vent community are a mature bunch and are having fun. But of course everyone hates the fact that SOE killed the Pre-NGE game and would leave in a heart beat if EMU opened or SOE made Classic servers. But the point, is that they are still having fun with the game as it is. No arguments here. If you are having fun on the merry-go-round, by all means stay on.
I don't think anyone puts any stock into your assessment of the vets when you say "So a lot of Vets praying that SOE doesn't screw it up, but are pretty confident that they will get it right this time." I don't give a shit if they do or not. My life doesn't revolve around what others think of me or believe. I am an honest person and I never lie. I try to give you all insight on how the community I am involved with feels. I do it as a courtesy, not for approval.
I am not attacking your integrity so don't get your pannies in a wad. At the same time don't try to represent what the vets feel. 98% of the vets are not even playing. They are quietly awaiting classic servers or the emu.
They have never gotten ANYTHING right so far. Everything they do only loses them more subscriptions. You absolutely cannot polish a turd. Your wrong and are just talking out your ass and repeating the same dribble every other vet has spewed. Try to be original.
You are funny really. Unlike you, I was there from launch and I KNOW they haven't gotten anything right. Original or not, it is the truth. They screw up EVERYTHING they touch. You can argue all you want and it will fall on deaf ears because the fact remains that they have gone from a high of 300K subs to almost nothing.
I can't speak alot about PVP as it stands now because I quit the farce 2 weeks after the NGE. However, PVP has never been what this game was about. It may be now because there isn't much else to do. Jedi as a starting class removed the long term goals and point of the game. They should have made Jedi even harder to obtain not made it into a starting class. Essentially they made KOTOR without all the fun, excitement, and content. Well, I don't know what is with all you people, but who are you to tell people what is fun and how to have it? If people really want to play Jedi, why should they have to play a profession that they do not want to play for months and months on end? Games are meant for fun, not for work. But I of course would have rather had to work for my Jedi and I was 3 branches into my unlock when the NGE BOMB hit, but I don't cry over spilt milk. And why shouldn't I? soe tried to tell me and thousands of others what was fun. That is an absurd argument. The majority of people who played the game have already spoken. They all agreed the game was no longer fun and quit. I will admit it. I am selfish when it comes to this game. It USED to be fun and rewarding. Fortunately many others had like minds so maybe we will see something come of it.
I already have my popcorn ready for the "trader revamp". That should be a hoot. You should try getting a life instead. Maybe go see a movie, go camping, fishing, just something. It's unhealthy to derive excitement from a kids forum.
Thats your best response yet! My excitement over a "kids forum" cannot compare to yours with 1000 posts.... Maybe you should get out a little more instead of wasting your time on "ventrillo" playing a broken game and trying to foster support for a doomed game. You may not "lie" but that does not preclude you from being a hypocrite.
5 pages later, same story, still no explination other than "doh im tired"; the provided data is not only pointless, but the theory behind their suposed meaning is bogus as well.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
Originally posted by Spathotan 5 pages later, same story, still no explination other than "doh im tired"; the provided data is not only pointless, but the theory behind their suposed meaning is bogus as well.
Sorry if you did not understand the following. people also did not understand when I predicted and explained jedi as a starting class a couple of weeks prior to the NGE. Course I was only a year off in my prediction LOL
"Given that forum activity is a predictor of a Mmo’s popularity, it stands to reason that popularity translates into subscriptions. Subscriptions = $$$$
The above stats show that SWG is a very popular amongst MMOs . Also, the stats show that some lower populated longer running MMOs are still going concerns(making money). There is a large group of players very interested in a Classic SWG (Duck, posters here and on the official forums as examples) This shows that a Classic version of SWG could be ranked highly in the above list and potentially very profitable.
Hence, the opportunity cost of not running a Classic SWG grows daily. As a publicly traded company, Sony will likely capitalize on this opportunity in the future."
Originally posted by Rabia Where is the rubish from? The numbers are meaningless the way you published them.
The data comes directly from the respective MMOs forum stats. Are you not surprised that some of the mentioned MMOs generate such low interest on their forums?
Comments
There are ALOT of people who post on the swgf forums who do not play the game. They might have at one point but now play EQ/EQII/Matrix. They just have their flaming priveleges for swg.
So that actually makes the OPs post a little less reliable.
Dear OP:
You are assuming that SOE actually has business sense. I stopped doing that a while back. It did not make sense to REPLACE SWG with the CU and risk losing half their subscribers, yet they did. Even though they had 2 weeks' notice from the uproar it caused on Test Center. People were categorically stating they would quit. And a lot of them did.
It has not made sense that the CU went in on April 15, 2005 and yet here were are at August 24, 2006 still wanting pre-CU servers. That is serious lost revenue!
No my friend, do not attempt to apply logic to these morons. SOE is the village idiot of the gaming industry.
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
But I haven't read anything to make me think they've improved quality control noticeably in the NGE either, publishes are still pushed out with major bugs that Test Center revealed but they didn't fix before Publishing. Serious issues still languish for weeks and months. And every vet that is playing the NGE has to be looking over their shoulder constantly in fear of the next major change that will invalidate a lot of work they put in.
Trader revemp and PvP Ranking System, anyone?
I know the community on this forums information is limited, because you all don't talk with most members in-game, so I will try to tell you exactly what the vets in game and the newer people are thinking and saying.
Nothing anyone has said, has indicated that the Publishes are pushed out before they should. In fact, people are pretty happy and grow happier with each publish. NOW, there are a lot of hopes and concerns with the trader revamp. Most except some of the NGE newbs want decay, engineering, and meaningful crafting back into the system. So a lot of Vets praying that SOE doesn't screw it up, but are pretty confident that they will get it right this time. But again, people are mostly just waiting to see what will happen and hope it's for the best. As for the PvP ranking system, everyone I have talked to on the Rebel side in Ahazi like the idea and can't wait. Faction ranks will finally be worth something and will be hard to obtain. No more Colonels running around that got their ranks off of Smuggler bought faction.
The fact of the matter is, when the NGE hit, SWG hit rock bottom. So improvements are easy and the only way they can go is up. Everything they have done since the NGE Nuke hit SWG, has made the game better and people are starting to have fun again. The biggest bitch in game right now is everyone looking the same and PvE being too easy. So people are really looking forward to the trader revamp, hoping that it will finally add diversity back into the game.
There are so many things wrong with your assessment it is plain sickening. I am sure Shayde will be on later to help drill this into you.
You didn't play pre-cu so you do not really know what the real vets might think. THOUSANDS of vets quit who will never come back unless classic servers ARE implemented. That is a well known fact.
You are only deluding yourself if you think everything is happy-go-lucky in game as well. There are just as many negative posts as there ever were. The big difference is that the new mods are very heavy handed with their deletions. I can't tell you how many posts are deleted each night when I have them all opened up in tabs on firefox. It is pitiful how much they censor over there now. I still have friends who play on Ahazi and I am hearing a completely different story than you tell. They say it plain sucks. It is still a ghost "galaxy".
I don't think anyone puts any stock into your assessment of the vets when you say "So a lot of Vets praying that SOE doesn't screw it up, but are pretty confident that they will get it right this time."
They have never gotten ANYTHING right so far. Everything they do only loses them more subscriptions. You absolutely cannot polish a turd.
I can't speak alot about PVP as it stands now because I quit the farce 2 weeks after the NGE. However, PVP has never been what this game was about. It may be now because there isn't much else to do. Jedi as a starting class removed the long term goals and point of the game. They should have made Jedi even harder to obtain not made it into a starting class. Essentially they made KOTOR without all the fun, excitement, and content.
I already have my popcorn ready for the "trader revamp". That should be a hoot.
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
So true. My two traders were a little wiser as they made their exodus a while back along with thousands of others.
Tagurit, please stop using phrases like "Happy go lucky".
You are playing with my inner demon, who's right now screaming for me to go download the Yatta movie and watch it!
I hate YATTA!
It does not matter what "improvements" they make. The damage that was done was permanent. Thousands of people who WERE LIED to will never go back. Also, with jedi as a starting profession, the game is a complete joke. Unless they make jedi like it was except harder to obtain the game will never have a chance. That is why the "ostrich" servers have so much of a following. When those servers become active the nge failure will be complete.
I have to ask the same question to you. Who makes you God over peoples life where you "know" for certain if people will come back to the game or not? People were lied to, but it was the Devs choice and within their rights to change the game. What is it with you people and Jedi? Why does Jedi have to be something hard to get? It's obvious it's what the playerbase wants, because in CU almost everyone was grinding for it and 70% of the population now is Jedi. Why does it hurt your feelings so bad to have Jedi easy to obtain. What matters is that the game should be fun. What is it that makes Jedi easy to obtain unfun?
Don't get me wrong, I would rather have it as a Vet reward, where you unlock it by playing for a year or two, but proving that you can grind a lot for a Jedi doesn't say anything and really isn't earning it either. Grinding is the dumbest thing put in MMO's. Unlocking Jedi as a Vet reward is a hell of a lot better. That way people can enjoy the game and play the way they want and if they really want to be a Jedi, they can choose it as a reward later on.
But it really kills me the way you people feel that Jedi has to be hard to get. It just sounds selfish and also like people want it to be hard, so that those who have it can be elite, which is horrible in a game world. No one likes elitists.
There are so many things wrong with your assessment it is plain sickening. I am sure Shayde will be on later to help drill this into you. And what makes you think I give a shit what Shayde thinks?
You didn't play pre-cu so you do not really know what the real vets might think. THOUSANDS of vets quit who will never come back unless classic servers ARE implemented. That is a well known fact. What makes you think I don't know Pre-CU vets that still are playing? While it's a well known fact on these boards, it isn't everywhere else. In-game, most people haven't heard of these stupid boards and also didn't know that people are still complaining about this game. They only read the SWG boards and occasionally the EMU boards. I've read the poor reviews on other sites, but no other forum that I know of has as many low life people on it still complaining about a change to a GAME like this forum. It is immature to keep those that are playing the game from talking about it and until you all realize this and stop it, you all won't really be worth reasoning with.
You are only deluding yourself if you think everything is happy-go-lucky in game as well. There are just as many negative posts as there ever were. The big difference is that the new mods are very heavy handed with their deletions. I can't tell you how many posts are deleted each night when I have them all opened up in tabs on firefox. It is pitiful how much they censor over there now. I still have friends who play on Ahazi and I am hearing a completely different story than you tell. They say it plain sucks. It is still a ghost "galaxy". It is like a ghost town galaxy. If you bother to read my other posts you would know that. Your friend may be Imp or may not have been accepted into the Alliance fold. The Alliance vent community are a mature bunch and are having fun. But of course everyone hates the fact that SOE killed the Pre-NGE game and would leave in a heart beat if EMU opened or SOE made Classic servers. But the point, is that they are still having fun with the game as it is.
I don't think anyone puts any stock into your assessment of the vets when you say "So a lot of Vets praying that SOE doesn't screw it up, but are pretty confident that they will get it right this time." I don't give a shit if they do or not. My life doesn't revolve around what others think of me or believe. I am an honest person and I never lie. I try to give you all insight on how the community I am involved with feels. I do it as a courtesy, not for approval.
They have never gotten ANYTHING right so far. Everything they do only loses them more subscriptions. You absolutely cannot polish a turd. Your wrong and are just talking out your ass and repeating the same dribble every other vet has spewed. Try to be original.
I can't speak alot about PVP as it stands now because I quit the farce 2 weeks after the NGE. However, PVP has never been what this game was about. It may be now because there isn't much else to do. Jedi as a starting class removed the long term goals and point of the game. They should have made Jedi even harder to obtain not made it into a starting class. Essentially they made KOTOR without all the fun, excitement, and content. Well, I don't know what is with all you people, but who are you to tell people what is fun and how to have it? If people really want to play Jedi, why should they have to play a profession that they do not want to play for months and months on end? Games are meant for fun, not for work. But I of course would have rather had to work for my Jedi and I was 3 branches into my unlock when the NGE BOMB hit, but I don't cry over spilt milk.
I already have my popcorn ready for the "trader revamp". That should be a hoot. You should try getting a life instead. Maybe go see a movie, go camping, fishing, just something. It's unhealthy to derive excitement from a kids forum.
Did many people grind for it? Yes. Nearly everyone? Well, not me. And many who did grind for it would not have if there had been a better system in place. The Jedi mistakes by no means started with the NGE, but it was the coup de grace on the game's potential to be great.
Did many people grind for it? Yes. Nearly everyone? Well, not me. And many who did grind for it would not have if there had been a better system in place. The Jedi mistakes by no means started with the NGE, but it was the coup de grace on the game's potential to be great.
But what makes a Jedi powerful in a game? Killing everyone easily in PvE? Killing everyone in PvP? Having powerful looking abilities? Describe powerful in the sense you are wanting them to be. Remember though, gamers are competitive and if Jedi are the be all end all of Professions, then Jedi is what most will be after, if for nothing else, just to compete. Several people have admitted to this. So eventually, you will have most people as Jedi anyways, you are just prolonging the inevitable.
I would love for there to be a better system in place and I would love for my Jedi to have to be earned, but my point is that I see the logic in allowing it to be a starter profession and balancing it with the rest of them. If the majority of the population wants Jedi, why not just give it to them to keep the subscriptions coming? Or you can flip it around and say, why not make it harder for them, so they have a reason to keep paying. But then you have the time spent vrs reward given problem. If someone is grinding or whatever for almost a year, they expect an uber class. But this provides us with an unbalance in the game and most competitive players want to be on the side of the unbalance that gives them the most power.
But then again, it could have been balanced in the risk vrs reward column and also by making it know that to kill a Jedi, it will take a group or so. But then you would just have full Jedi groups running around invincible, which would eventually become boring for those that don't want Jedi. These are problems that we dealt with over the life of this game, and I believe this is why they balanced Jedi and made them a starting profession.
That was the major design screw-up, having a multi-class game with an Alpha class. The original designers recognized how this could ruin any chance of the game remaining a playable multi-class game, and pushed a design that was meant to limit Jedi numbers. They were pressured to abandon that design ... with unfortunate and entirely predictable results, in terms of game quality. So instead of an immersive sandbox world, we got the cheap and rather dull 'Jedi v. Bounty Hunter' that the game has devolved to, and the game lost tens of thousands of really interesting players who just aren't attracted to this design.
Now this is freaking funny.
I will bet on Track record and history not to mention WHERE THE NGE STANDS RIGHT NOW after 9 months...
In fact I can safely say, your not going to see the NGE suceed. Sorry, that idea is just not gonna happen as we predicted a long time ago. (You would have seen success in the first 4 months if this was the case).
You are in a dream world even after 9 months of Spin and lies... broken code and bad PR-- you still have not woke up to what your in.
Good luck to you, you will need it.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
It does not matter what "improvements" they make. The damage that was done was permanent. Thousands of people who WERE LIED to will never go back. Also, with jedi as a starting profession, the game is a complete joke. Unless they make jedi like it was except harder to obtain the game will never have a chance. That is why the "ostrich" servers have so much of a following. When those servers become active the nge failure will be complete.
I have to ask the same question to you. Who makes you God over peoples life where you "know" for certain if people will come back to the game or not? People were lied to, but it was the Devs choice and within their rights to change the game. What is it with you people and Jedi? Why does Jedi have to be something hard to get? It's obvious it's what the playerbase wants, because in CU almost everyone was grinding for it and 70% of the population now is Jedi. Why does it hurt your feelings so bad to have Jedi easy to obtain. What matters is that the game should be fun. What is it that makes Jedi easy to obtain unfun?
Don't get me wrong, I would rather have it as a Vet reward, where you unlock it by playing for a year or two, but proving that you can grind a lot for a Jedi doesn't say anything and really isn't earning it either. Grinding is the dumbest thing put in MMO's. Unlocking Jedi as a Vet reward is a hell of a lot better. That way people can enjoy the game and play the way they want and if they really want to be a Jedi, they can choose it as a reward later on.
But it really kills me the way you people feel that Jedi has to be hard to get. It just sounds selfish and also like people want it to be hard, so that those who have it can be elite, which is horrible in a game world. No one likes elitists.
The concept of Jedi in the game and Timeline made more sense in the (Hard to get and live in mode) -- aka RISK vs REWARD at one time there was balance and point to things, with great risk, decay -- the circle of balance.
What you know nothing about is by some bad word of mouth, what you do not know is the FEEL to the game was so much better then, also imagine 1000 people in front of you in Coronet , buying , trading and commerce going on.
There is so many things that were good about pre-CU and CU vs what they did to get to the NGE level of play.
Just because you rip things out, dummy them down to nothing, take away the goals, take out the risk -- DOES not mean it will make for a good game.
In fact as it has proven just the opposite. The NGE is what YOU DO NOT DO in a game, people are already using this in college as a reference of what not to do in business... I mean people I know refer to this game or when they make a mistake and do not want to take blame as a "OOps, I Smedley'd" ---
People NEED to look at the NGE for what it is.. not for what it "MAY BE SOMEDAY" -- since they seem to only be able to look at the "PRE-CU - or CU" for what it was -- then that is only fair.
Pie in the sky crap at this point is a joke.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
So, 30 x2 = 60 pvpers.
SOE is developing a pvp revamp for 60 x 25 (servers) = 1500 players. At the same time, they have 10000-15000 concurrent users logged in.
Waste of resources.
This is why SWG utlimately ended the way it has, catering to wrong people.
Dude.. like wtf..
"I have to ask the same question to you. Who makes you God over peoples life where you "know" for certain if people will come back to the game or not? People were lied to, but it was the Devs choice and within their rights to change the game."
What does that have to do with Jedi or ranting about another person(s) post about jedi.
I don't care if people come back.. or they were lied to. I don't care if it was the devs right to change the game.
Any person with a brain cell still active or a clue bought at ebay.. knows they lost a ton of subscribers due to changes they made. In a corporate enviroment that is ALL that matters.
Jedi don't matter.. whether its a grind or a starting profession.
What does matter that all these rights the devs exercised cost a corporation a lot of profit and that trickles down to investors.
At some point those investors ask questions and guess what... They are god over that developers life.
That's the part I don't get.. how any intellegent person at SOE could think these changes were good and keep cointinuing down a road that is costing them more money.
I'm replying with this because of what I quoted from Nthnaoun.
I really don't care about jedi debates.. but if you wanna debate devs rights to change things... there is a whole more realistic side of that than what any of us here feel/think. Its called answering the questions about the financial losses to investors. Which every publicly traded company has to do..
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
Sorry if you did not understand the following. people also did not understand when I predicted and explained jedi as a starting class a couple of weeks prior to the NGE. Course I was only a year off in my prediction LOL
"Given that forum activity is a predictor of a Mmo’s popularity, it stands to reason that popularity translates into subscriptions. Subscriptions = $$$$
The above stats show that SWG is a very popular amongst MMOs . Also, the stats show that some lower populated longer running MMOs are still going concerns(making money). There is a large group of players very interested in a Classic SWG (Duck, posters here and on the official forums as examples) This shows that a Classic version of SWG could be ranked highly in the above list and potentially very profitable.
Hence, the opportunity cost of not running a Classic SWG grows daily. As a publicly traded company, Sony will likely capitalize on this opportunity in the future."