Originally posted by fizzle322 Originally posted by Refnu Not affording it is the problem...its idiotic to pay that when competition is at where it is right now. Other games only cost $15 a month to play so why pay $40?
Some people will enjoy Archlord, and they will decide that they're willing to pay anything to play it. We will just have to wait and see I guess...
Current: Puzzle Pirates Waiting: SWTOR,Aion, CO Played: AC, WoW, SB, EVE
I wouldnt' want to pay the 40 dollars per month... so I'd most likely choose the 9.99 per month. But knowing there are even a portion of people in the game leveling faster and such because they are forking out 40 a month would make me not want to play at all.
They are asking roughly triple the normal monthly fee for the "premium" service and I suspect they'll get 1/3 of the subscriptions they would have normally got.
Originally posted by Chessack Originally posted by Greyface
I'm sorry, but this is disgusting. It's like a game of chess where one player gets two queens because he paid extra for the set. Fortunately for us gamers, Archlord is destined for the discount rack (that is, if it's not Vaporware). I honestly can't believe they think someone is going to pay $40/month for this crap.
Sadly this seems to be the wave of the future. There are already hints that Simutronics, who already does this in their text-based MMOs, is going to do this sort of price structure with Hero's Journey. And a number of Korean games already let people use regular cash to buy in-game items (and thus, in-game advantages).
I completely agree with you that it's disgusting, but it's clearly an nascent industry trend. The ONLY way to stop it is if gamers refuse to either play, or if they play, refuse to pay for the higher services. Unfortunately the history of games suggests that gamers are willing to fork over ANY amount of money to get an advantage over each other, and that's exactly what the companies are counting on.
I hope this kind of model fails utterly. But I have a sinking feeling this is the new way of doing things in MMORPG Dev-land.
C
so true.
First its just 10 bucks a month. Wow, I think to myself. Its just 10 dollars. And now a few years later when the industry is just about to boom, it goes up 5 bucks. Not a big deal. Yet with this Archlord coming out, this is the start of the caste system, where the people with the more money get bigger benefits. Its natural, and the only way to stop it is if gamers refuse to fork over the cash. But it doesnt seem that anything like that is going to happen. Hell, probably the opposite will happen.
People want to get an advantage over their fellow competitors any way possible, and they sure as hell will pay 40 bucks a month.
And then theres the next plan, which is the, well lets say the...
Colonel account, which is 60 bucks per month. More benefits, such as being able to cast special spells.
then theres the General's account, which is 80 dollars per month, with more benefits such as getting a free mount and weapons.
Then theres the special Archlord account which is 120 bucks per month. And so on.
And so on and so on. Until people stop buying this crap, the companies will be greedy bastards and continue on.
Agree with you Chessak. Great post
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Originally posted by Owyn Originally posted by ikra .. not to mention the fucking imbalance... rich people are the stronge unbelievable pricir types, the poorer are gonna be the weak...
And can you explain precisely why having disposable real world cash give an edge is worse than having disposable spare time giving an edge?
I could easily make the same complaint about other games, where "people with no lives who play all the time have an unbelievable advantage." Right? Or I could talk about skill-based games, and complain that people with better reflexes have a big advantage over those who don't. Right?
Well this is gonna be an easy one.
People with more time to play, still have to actually PLAY. Its much different from just dumping all your extra money into teh game so you can get the advantage. I would rather a person be better then me because he put the time and effort into the game to become better then me, not just swiped his visa card and gained a sudden advantage.
You cant seriously believe that someone with more free time and someone with more money is on equal footing when it comes to gameing. Yeah they both might eventually be equal, but it doesnt change the fact that the guy with free time will have to work much harder to catch up to the guy with excess cash.
And in skill based games its even worst, a person with skill should outrank anyone who tries to come at him that is weaker. Thats like saying, allow players in fps to buy aim mods so they can keep up with the players that are naturally good, its nonsense.
Everyone is better then someone, the difference is, spending money to get to the top defeats the purpose of standing on top. At the end of the day you achieved nothing, just proved that you have a bigger wallet then everyone else, not that you have more skill and you deserve to be above everyone else.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Which is why games with this type of payment structure might have a difficult time. Although I might believe an edge is an edge, regardless of where it comes from, people will look at this the same way as they perceive people who buy gold or characters from farmers. It may not be, but it FEELS like they're cheating. People who gain an edge because they spend time and/or develop their skills are actually working for it. We can admire that. We don't admire people who buy their way to the top, or sleep their way to the top or do anything but exert some sort of effort to make their way. It's what we're taught to do as children. Having said that, a lot of people who lack the time but have the money, see it in a completely different light. I just have a feeling that there are more who see it the way DeserttFoxx and other's see it and I think many will just avoid games with this sort of tiered payment structure because they find it irritating, especially in the US and Europe.
If people want to spend scads of $$$, fine. I don't believe it'll affect me and how I choose to play games. The regular method of subscribing is ok with me. I play games for my own personal amusement and really can't be arsed to play catch up or even care how others play their games.
Originally posted by DeserttFoxx Originally posted by Owyn Originally posted by ikra .. not to mention the fucking imbalance... rich people are the stronge unbelievable pricir types, the poorer are gonna be the weak...
And can you explain precisely why having disposable real world cash give an edge is worse than having disposable spare time giving an edge?
I could easily make the same complaint about other games, where "people with no lives who play all the time have an unbelievable advantage." Right? Or I could talk about skill-based games, and complain that people with better reflexes have a big advantage over those who don't. Right?
Well this is gonna be an easy one.
People with more time to play, still have to actually PLAY. Its much different from just dumping all your extra money into teh game so you can get the advantage. I would rather a person be better then me because he put the time and effort into the game to become better then me, not just swiped his visa card and gained a sudden advantage.
You cant seriously believe that someone with more free time and someone with more money is on equal footing when it comes to gameing. When it we are talking about MMORPGs, Owyn is right - yes, someone with more free time and someone with more money just probably would be on equal footing with a payment system like this one being proposed. Yeah they both might eventually be equal, but it doesnt change the fact that the guy with free time will have to work much harder to catch up to the guy with excess cash. Or you can look at it like this - the guy with the excess cash paid more money to get to the same level that you are at faster - but you only paid 1/4 as much as he/she did. You may be temporarily "behind" this guy in the beginning, but in the end you will both be at the same level. Except that you also have more cash in your real life pocket. In my opinion - YOU have the better advantage.
And in skill based games its even worst, a person with skill should outrank anyone who tries to come at him that is weaker. Thats like saying, allow players in fps to buy aim mods so they can keep up with the players that are naturally good, its nonsense.
Everyone is better then someone, the difference is, spending money to get to the top defeats the purpose of standing on top. At the end of the day you achieved nothing, just proved that you have a bigger wallet then everyone else, not that you have more skill and you deserve to be above everyone else.
It is kinda like, how I feel about those poor fools who are going to pay $600 to get the Playstation 3 when it first comes out, just to say that they got it first. But then a year later when Sony sees the low number of sales and the price gets slashed in half, those of us who didn't want to spend the full price get the excact same system and the same games for a lot cheaper than the gamer willing to part with more cash. In the end - it doesn't really matter.
Look, I don't like the idea of someone getting an advantage over me just because they have more cash to spend - but then again, life is like that, so I could get over it in a game IF the game is fun and designed properly. I agree with Gameloading and Roin on this one - I'd like to try the game for myself and see how the system works first-hand before I decide if I reject it or respect it.
Originally posted by Owyn I don't think most of you get what this payment system is about, really. It's about paying by use. Which I see absolutely no issue with. Basically, right now, you've got a setup in most MMOs where the guy playing 5 hrs a month is paying the same amount for their gameplay as the guy playing 400 hours a month. And - that's broken, both from a customer perspective, and from the company's perspective. If people use your service more, they should pay more - that's reasonable, right? Archlord is doing just that. What their system boils down to is basically that there are two modes of play - high gear mode, and low gear mode. All of the items you buy with those credits are timed use; they expire after a certain period. So you need to buy more. And in fact, the more hours you play, the more of them you will need. The player who plays 400 hours a month will need the extra credits. In fact, the player playing 400 hours a month, even with the extra credits from the top account, actually has LESS credits per hour than the guy playing only 50 hours per month with the lowest end account. Basically, if you don't play often, you can maintain a high level of play easily with a cheap account. As your playtime increases, you will need more and more credits to maintain that high level of play, so you need to either buy a better account version, or you need to deal with the fact that for a high percentage of your playtime, you'll be lacking the 'good stuff'. It's smart. It's almost like having an hourly charge on the game, except players can opt not to pay the hourly charge, and just play for free at a lower/slower/less powerful level of play.
If this is how it is going to work then it is not so unbalancing.
If the items are consumable and say each credit gives you 5 minutes worth of play with all the perks then as the above poster says.
Someone who pays 10$ and plays 100 hours a month will have the exact same advantages as someone who pays 40$ and plays 500 hours, ( or thereabouts ).
This leads to another question though.
Is this really all that clever from a bussiness standpoint?
As Owyn said, this is essentially a different way to pay by the hour, charge more to the ones who plays more, and I can understand why they would want to do this.
But if they are the only ones doing it, and every other game out there has the standard billing plan this game needs to be something friggin else to pull this of.
Considering the competition out there rigth now this may be a truelly horrible financial decision.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the APAC-made games run this way. All those "free to play" games are really using the Archlord system already, just with a lower (zero) base rate. Hero Online, Tantra Online, Silk Road, and all the rest - the base rate is Free, instead of $9.95. And then the top rate is essentially unlimited - someone can pour as much money as they want into the system.
At least in Archlord, there seems to be a cap on how much real world money can impact any one character. In these other games, there is no limit.
Then look at other games. Roma Victor uses a "buy ingame cash with real cash" system instead of a monthly fee. That's something a LOT of the big companies are looking at. Guildwars is free to play, but to get the "cool new stuff", you need to buy the expansions. Heck, EQ/EQ2/DAOC/WOW/etc all have or will have expansion packs you need to buy in order to get access to better powers and abilities. EQ comes out with 2-3 expansions a year, which is $100-150 a year extra that someone *with more cash* can pay to get additional content, powers, gear, etc.
What if SOE kicked out 6 boxed expansions a year instead? All optional, of course... But each costing $50, so in order to get it all, you had to pay basically $40 a month ($15 per month subscription fee + $50 every two months for expansions). EQ2 is already offering special content dungeons for an extra fee - how long before they start offering special epic raids for cool gear at a premium price?
It's not that different from what they are already doing.
Personally, I think game companies have an obligation to provide new content as part of the monthly fee people pay. It should be built in, like we see in games like DAOC and Eve. However, like DAOC, it's certainly possible to do both: have some content that is patched in for free, and some content that is paid for at an extra price.
Frankly, if someone plays more, I don't see any reason that companies should NOT charge them more for it.
I do think that people with more money will pay the full amount. So this is getting just a tad to rl really. Peeps with more rl cash buy themself into the higher ranks, have better items etc. I really do not like that at all tbh. So a poor school kid who can barely afford to pay €9.99 a month will be poor ingame as well and work a lot harder and longer to reach the goals? Well, for now its all speculation anyways, but it just doesn't sound or feel right.
------------------------------------------------------ Do I ever sleep?
Originally posted by LostGrace Dear fellow gamers, do not let any type of payment system like this become standard. It will ruin MMOs.
Maybe
Or maybe this will pervent E-baying being so damm profitable for so many people. In basic if you have 40$ and play a game now spending 15$ monthly fee and 25$ on e-bay stuff. For the people that just play the game and want to get the items just by playing much the pize just went down 5$.
You just gone by the fact that people paying the high valued monthly cost get items that will make there live in-game a lot easier. Now peeps withouth time but with money don't support some korean company with full time gamers but the game producer itself i think there something to say for it
Originally posted by Aelfinn Originally posted by Randd I cant say any more right now, but i think most people will be happy with playing the game at the lowest price level.
It won't work out that way, you see, those that are willing to pay for the "Lord" packs will have a significant advantage over others, in terms of items and skills, in other words, if one wishes to be remotely competitive, you MUST buy the most expensive package. It may be possible to compete without the boost the Lord pack gives, but it will take serious amount of hard work that others avoided by simply handing over the dough. so whats the differents with getting the stuff on e-bay. In other games you could spend the 25$ on e-bay so the rich kids have an advantage anyway
Originally posted by sartorius Honestly, before saying things about a product or company you should really make sure you are giving the correct information. This applies to yourself too.
Archlord is offering bigger and badder weapons, armor, skills, etc. for more money...that's quite a difference imho. There are no weapons, armors etc you can buy, there are only buffs or ingame enhancements like they call them.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
Originally posted by holythough so whats the differents with getting the stuff on e-bay. In other games you could spend the 25$ on e-bay so the rich kids have an advantage anyway
There is a big integrity difference from a game design viewpoint if the developers support advantage sales as opposed to a player. Games where developers sell in-game advantages are designed to encourage the need to do so.
This type of system defeats playing a MMOG in my opinion. If you don't earn it, what's the point. Just say no.
Originally posted by Apocalyptica I do think that people with more money will pay the full amount. So this is getting just a tad to rl really. Peeps with more rl cash buy themself into the higher ranks, have better items etc. I really do not like that at all tbh. So a poor school kid who can barely afford to pay €9.99 a month will be poor ingame as well and work a lot harder and longer to reach the goals? Well, for now its all speculation anyways, but it just doesn't sound or feel right.
No one is going to be able to buy ranks or better items. They're buying buffs, basically, or buying increased experience point gain, or buying reduced downtime.
Basically, they're buying an enhanced play experience. For as long as your credits hold out, your play experience is in "overdrive mode".
To maintain overdrive mode, the casual player doesn't need that many credits. They can just buy the cheaper version. To maintain overdrive mode, the hardcore player needs a lot more credits; they have to either pay more for more credits, or deal with the fact that only for some of their playtime will they be in peak form.
It's not that people with more money can buy their way to success, so much as it is that people who play more, will have to choose to either pay more or not be as tough for some of their online time.
Originally posted by LostGrace Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe LostGrace wrote: If you cannot afford 15$ a month then you have bigger things to do then play a video game... So if I can't afford $15 a month but I CAN afford $9 a month for a game that I like then I just don't deserver to play right? For the area that I live, $25k to $30k a year is livable for a single person so $15 a month isn't exactly breakin' my nuts. But if I can get into an MMORPG that I like for $9 a month, why the hell should I pass it up for an MMORPG of equal or lesser quality that charges $15 a month? You make it sound as though gamers are somehow OBLIGATED to pay at least $15 month. I could just play used single player games at $5 a game if I was really strapped for cash and get just as much entertainment (more in my opinion) than most MMORPGs. Seriously, first your pissed because all the rich kids will get a head start, and now you're pissed because all the poor kids will get to come to the party too.
Its not that you dont deserve to play, it is that if you cant afford 15$ a month, then you have bigger things to be doing, aka going to college and geting a good job...
And I never said I was pissed, I said I dont want this to ever become standard.
Saves most people 5$
Gets the rich kids of the e-baying thing
ANd you don't want this to be standard.
YOur just ingorant. Rich kids will ALWAYS have the advantages because of E-baying. So now the developer profits and not some exploiting asain company. It's a good thing this makes e-bay a lot less intresting for this game and reveneus will actaully go to the developing company so it can be spend on improving the rather the get some asain nitwit company rich on exploting peeps.
I really want people to see past the first impression and realize it's a good thing codemaster tries to do here. There actaully getting the cost down for most people by getting otherwise E-baying peeps to spend the money on the developer of the game so it can actaully be used to improve the game.
Imbalance because of people with to much money will alwas be there. To stay competitve you just need to spend more time. It's really rare that people with loads of money also spend 40+ hours of play sins they have the option to do RL fun things that cost loads of money
Originally posted by Samuraisword Originally posted by holythough so whats the differents with getting the stuff on e-bay. In other games you could spend the 25$ on e-bay so the rich kids have an advantage anyway
There is a big integrity difference from a game design viewpoint if the developers support advantage sales as opposed to a player. Games where developers sell in-game advantages are designed to encourage the need to do so.
This type of system defeats playing a MMOG in my opinion. If you don't earn it, what's the point. Just say no.
i beg to differ. A lot of mmorpg companies have taken active steps to stop e-baying but with very little succes. Sony was one of them the concluded that "If you can't beat join ehm" so now they have there own item shop althought there still money,character and PL services for sony games Item sales plunched after sony opend up there own item shop. So it's just helping get the money that will be spend anyway by the game developers rather then to somebody just profitting from tyhe excistense from the game.
Also a lot people complaining that kids with to much time on there hands domenate the "end game". Not everybody has the time to spend 40+ hours playing so it a trade off. One part of the people will use there hard earned cash to compansed for the fact there not in scghool and have loads of free time on there hand.
I don't understand why people who have $20 or so more disposable income are being referred to as "rich kids." Is that going to be the new insult? Also, just for general information, most of the people who I game with are adults, many married with children, and would laugh at anyone who called them a "rich kid."
I don't know much about these sorts of schemes. I don't know if the people who pay more will maintain that edge or if, with time, it all evens out. I do know that PvP oriented MMOs are a completely different animal than game such as EQ and WoW. I wouldn't bother paying extra for games like that... what's the point? They don't bring out my competitive nature. Why would I compete with other people to better be able to PvE? PvP, on the other hand, is all about competing and I think a lot of people would feel pressured into buying the top tier so they wouldn't be left behind. On the other hand, if you're not bothered, a tenner a month isn't a bad deal.
I'm not interested Archlord... it's definitely not the sort of PvP game I'd enjoy... I'm not sure I wouldn't pay to compete if it was, though. As I don't have the time or inclination to become involved with a PvP game like I was with Shadowbane, I may never know!
I don't personally care about any 'earning it' arguments or about the exact amount of money for a monthly fee. Typically 'earning it' equates to just spending absurd amounts of time repeating boring tasks over and over and possibly enduring being in a raid guild, not any kind of actual accomplishment.
The reason I won't pay for a game like this is that it provides a financial incentive for the game makers to make the game as boring and unsatisfying as they can get away with in the 'low fee' part of the game to encourage people to move to the more expensive plan. Same thing with 'cash for money' games, it just encourages the developers to make items expensive and money-making boring so that they can make more profit on money (or item) sales. Setting up a plan like this is pretty much like a declaration from the game-maker that they're out to make part of the game suck in order to rake in the 'premium' fees from people, something which I'm not interested in.
The reason I won't pay for a game like this is that it provides a financial incentive for the game makers to make the game as boring and unsatisfying as they can get away with in the 'low fee' part of the game to encourage people to move to the more expensive plan. Same thing with 'cash for money' games, it just encourages the developers to make items expensive and money-making boring so that they can make more profit on money (or item) sales. Setting up a plan like this is pretty much like a declaration from the game-maker that they're out to make part of the game suck in order to rake in the 'premium' fees from people, something which I'm not interested in.
Originally posted by Pantastic I don't personally care about any 'earning it' arguments or about the exact amount of money for a monthly fee. Typically 'earning it' equates to just spending absurd amounts of time repeating boring tasks over and over and possibly enduring being in a raid guild, not any kind of actual accomplishment.The reason I won't pay for a game like this is that it provides a financial incentive for the game makers to make the game as boring and unsatisfying as they can get away with in the 'low fee' part of the game to encourage people to move to the more expensive plan. Same thing with 'cash for money' games, it just encourages the developers to make items expensive and money-making boring so that they can make more profit on money (or item) sales. Setting up a plan like this is pretty much like a declaration from the game-maker that they're out to make part of the game suck in order to rake in the 'premium' fees from people, something which I'm not interested in.
Well paying for playing most MMOs these days is like being punched in the face continiously while online. You start off rearing to go, not remembering the pains from the last session, and log off dizzy, half blind, and your char just gained 1/8 of a level. These guys are saying you can pay more, and get softer punches.. more like happy slaps. Pay more for less pain! Must be a business model in somewhere that!
Just got back from a mentally draining threesome (OK no kinky ideas here, it was just a 1 guy + 2 girls talk over coffee and some heavy dinner), so I wasn't about to scour the whole 10 pages of this thread.
But I did checked out the Archlord's pay plan link and fuck me if I see the 'Lord' rates are the same for BOTH US Dollars and Euro? And don't VAT applies to the British Pound Sterling rates? Which financial planner did they use and what weed was he/she on when it got prepped?
Here in Malaysia, that amount after 6 months can get me a pretty decent and new gaming rig FFS
I might as well sign my ass up for Windows LIVE for life at those rates...
Originally posted by fizzle322 Originally posted by LostGrace Originally posted by ikra i swear if someone's gona subscribe to the $40 then if there are more than enough people that does this, i believe the other mmorpgs will follow suit... -_-
Exactly, if other game companys find this method is acceptable, then they will start using it.
Its not acceptable, and never should be. People with alot of money already have a better life, allowing them to have more fun in a game because of their income is just wrong, and stupid.
They already have more fun in the game.
They get to play on a state of the art system with a 30 inch monitor with surround sound speakers and a rumble seat.
They get to take the day off to farm items while you're at work.
I feel this method is acceptable.
If you can't afford $40 a month then you should go to college and get a job.
Its the same logic you use on the people who say $15 a month is too much, so it applies to you too.
I hope this becomes industry standard so people wake up. The MMORPG industry will charge you ANYTHING THAT IT THINK IT CAN GET AWAY WITH.
The fees will keep going up because we accepted $15 a month for no content.
So we'll accept $40 a month for content.
Then we'll accept $40 a month for no content.
And we'll accept $50 for content + customer service.
THen we'll find out that even for $50 a month they still charge you for expansions.
It never stops. It never ends. The fees just keep going up because there is an army of morons willing to pay those fees, whether they get anything for the fee or not.
So no, $40 isn't a huge leap. You're already paying $15, why not $40. It's still only about 1 dollar per day, its still an entertainment value. Heck even paying $5 a day is no big deal to most people.
How much is $5 a day monthly? $150 a month?
People spend more than $5 a day just to buy a pack of cigarettes.
Where does it end?
It doesn't.
It started with people accepting the "pay to play" scheme.
When people stop accepting that scheme, the fees will end, gaming companies will sell you the box for $50 and you can play on private servers and everybody will still continue making a profit.
you know what fizzle... no wonder there are lots of people suffering around the world in poverty its because guys like you dont even care about others, all you care is about your luxury and all the money you have goes to you.. all you want is an advantage over somebody else... and you always want it the easy way. Why dont you just spend those $30 on charity instead and make some persons life worth living.
People like you who waste too much money on luxury should be banned in this planet lol
seiously, we need luxury, we need to spend money on things that make us happy... but too much... that is another story... Luky you that you got to be rich... or maybe all you needed to do was sit down since you dont need to work for the money cuz you inherited money. Me i never play games which needs you to pay monthly just to play the game you already bought... thats why i dont play these types of games, I play diablo, starcraft, half life, guild wars, heck i dont even play games that have virtual stores which you can use real cash to buy items.
I sense your one of those guys who would buy elephant tusks for the ivory, no wonder there are still poachers around. If someone buys it, there is a demand, and if there is demand, there are people who supply it no matter what and they dictate the pricing. It is dumbasses like you who creates this foolish demand in the first place.
Comments
I'm glad you see the truth brother!
I thought I was the only one...
We will just have to wait and see I guess...
Current: Puzzle Pirates
Waiting: SWTOR,Aion, CO
Played: AC, WoW, SB, EVE
I wouldnt' want to pay the 40 dollars per month... so I'd most likely choose the 9.99 per month. But knowing there are even a portion of people in the game leveling faster and such because they are forking out 40 a month would make me not want to play at all.
They are asking roughly triple the normal monthly fee for the "premium" service and I suspect they'll get 1/3 of the subscriptions they would have normally got.
I completely agree with you that it's disgusting, but it's clearly an nascent industry trend. The ONLY way to stop it is if gamers refuse to either play, or if they play, refuse to pay for the higher services. Unfortunately the history of games suggests that gamers are willing to fork over ANY amount of money to get an advantage over each other, and that's exactly what the companies are counting on.
I hope this kind of model fails utterly. But I have a sinking feeling this is the new way of doing things in MMORPG Dev-land.
C
so true.
First its just 10 bucks a month. Wow, I think to myself. Its just 10 dollars. And now a few years later when the industry is just about to boom, it goes up 5 bucks. Not a big deal. Yet with this Archlord coming out, this is the start of the caste system, where the people with the more money get bigger benefits. Its natural, and the only way to stop it is if gamers refuse to fork over the cash. But it doesnt seem that anything like that is going to happen. Hell, probably the opposite will happen.
People want to get an advantage over their fellow competitors any way possible, and they sure as hell will pay 40 bucks a month.
And then theres the next plan, which is the, well lets say the...
Colonel account, which is 60 bucks per month. More benefits, such as being able to cast special spells.
then theres the General's account, which is 80 dollars per month, with more benefits such as getting a free mount and weapons.
Then theres the special Archlord account which is 120 bucks per month. And so on.
And so on and so on. Until people stop buying this crap, the companies will be greedy bastards and continue on.
Agree with you Chessak. Great post
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
I could easily make the same complaint about other games, where "people with no lives who play all the time have an unbelievable advantage." Right? Or I could talk about skill-based games, and complain that people with better reflexes have a big advantage over those who don't. Right?
Well this is gonna be an easy one.
People with more time to play, still have to actually PLAY. Its much different from just dumping all your extra money into teh game so you can get the advantage. I would rather a person be better then me because he put the time and effort into the game to become better then me, not just swiped his visa card and gained a sudden advantage.
You cant seriously believe that someone with more free time and someone with more money is on equal footing when it comes to gameing. Yeah they both might eventually be equal, but it doesnt change the fact that the guy with free time will have to work much harder to catch up to the guy with excess cash.
And in skill based games its even worst, a person with skill should outrank anyone who tries to come at him that is weaker. Thats like saying, allow players in fps to buy aim mods so they can keep up with the players that are naturally good, its nonsense.
Everyone is better then someone, the difference is, spending money to get to the top defeats the purpose of standing on top. At the end of the day you achieved nothing, just proved that you have a bigger wallet then everyone else, not that you have more skill and you deserve to be above everyone else.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
If people want to spend scads of $$$, fine. I don't believe it'll affect me and how I choose to play games. The regular method of subscribing is ok with me. I play games for my own personal amusement and really can't be arsed to play catch up or even care how others play their games.
I could easily make the same complaint about other games, where "people with no lives who play all the time have an unbelievable advantage." Right? Or I could talk about skill-based games, and complain that people with better reflexes have a big advantage over those who don't. Right?
Well this is gonna be an easy one.
People with more time to play, still have to actually PLAY. Its much different from just dumping all your extra money into teh game so you can get the advantage. I would rather a person be better then me because he put the time and effort into the game to become better then me, not just swiped his visa card and gained a sudden advantage.
You cant seriously believe that someone with more free time and someone with more money is on equal footing when it comes to gameing. When it we are talking about MMORPGs, Owyn is right - yes, someone with more free time
and someone with more money just probably would be on equal footing
with a payment system like this one being proposed. Yeah they both might eventually be equal, but it doesnt change the fact that the guy with free time will have to work much harder to catch up to the guy with excess cash. Or you can look at it like this - the guy with the excess cash paid more money to get to the same level that you are at faster - but you only paid 1/4 as much as he/she did. You may be temporarily "behind" this guy in the beginning, but in the end you will both be at the same level. Except that you also have more cash in your real life pocket. In my opinion - YOU have the better advantage.
And in skill based games its even worst, a person with skill should outrank anyone who tries to come at him that is weaker. Thats like saying, allow players in fps to buy aim mods so they can keep up with the players that are naturally good, its nonsense.
Everyone is better then someone, the difference is, spending money to get to the top defeats the purpose of standing on top. At the end of the day you achieved nothing, just proved that you have a bigger wallet then everyone else, not that you have more skill and you deserve to be above everyone else.
It is kinda like, how I feel about those poor fools who are going to pay $600 to get the Playstation 3 when it first comes out, just to say that they got it first. But then a year later when Sony sees the low number of sales and the price gets slashed in half, those of us who didn't want to spend the full price get the excact same system and the same games for a lot cheaper than the gamer willing to part with more cash. In the end - it doesn't really matter.
Look, I don't like the idea of someone getting an advantage over me just because they have more cash to spend - but then again, life is like that, so I could get over it in a game IF the game is fun and designed properly. I agree with Gameloading and Roin on this one - I'd like to try the game for myself and see how the system works first-hand before I decide if I reject it or respect it.
***goes and signs up for Archlord beta***
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Except that they are not the only ones doing it.
Most of the APAC-made games run this way. All those "free to play" games are really using the Archlord system already, just with a lower (zero) base rate. Hero Online, Tantra Online, Silk Road, and all the rest - the base rate is Free, instead of $9.95. And then the top rate is essentially unlimited - someone can pour as much money as they want into the system.
At least in Archlord, there seems to be a cap on how much real world money can impact any one character. In these other games, there is no limit.
Then look at other games. Roma Victor uses a "buy ingame cash with real cash" system instead of a monthly fee. That's something a LOT of the big companies are looking at. Guildwars is free to play, but to get the "cool new stuff", you need to buy the expansions. Heck, EQ/EQ2/DAOC/WOW/etc all have or will have expansion packs you need to buy in order to get access to better powers and abilities. EQ comes out with 2-3 expansions a year, which is $100-150 a year extra that someone *with more cash* can pay to get additional content, powers, gear, etc.
What if SOE kicked out 6 boxed expansions a year instead? All optional, of course... But each costing $50, so in order to get it all, you had to pay basically $40 a month ($15 per month subscription fee + $50 every two months for expansions). EQ2 is already offering special content dungeons for an extra fee - how long before they start offering special epic raids for cool gear at a premium price?
It's not that different from what they are already doing.
Personally, I think game companies have an obligation to provide new content as part of the monthly fee people pay. It should be built in, like we see in games like DAOC and Eve. However, like DAOC, it's certainly possible to do both: have some content that is patched in for free, and some content that is paid for at an extra price.
Frankly, if someone plays more, I don't see any reason that companies should NOT charge them more for it.
Owyn
Commander, Defenders of Order
http://www.defendersoforder.com
------------------------------------------------------
Do I ever sleep?
Maybe
Or maybe this will pervent E-baying being so damm profitable for so many people. In basic if you have 40$ and play a game now spending 15$ monthly fee and 25$ on e-bay stuff. For the people that just play the game and want to get the items just by playing much the pize just went down 5$.
You just gone by the fact that people paying the high valued monthly cost get items that will make there live in-game a lot easier. Now peeps withouth time but with money don't support some korean company with full time gamers but the game producer itself i think there something to say for it
so whats the differents with getting the stuff on e-bay. In other games you could spend the 25$ on e-bay so the rich kids have an advantage anyway
Archlord is offering bigger and badder weapons, armor, skills, etc. for more money...that's quite a difference imho.
There are no weapons, armors etc you can buy, there are only buffs or ingame enhancements like they call them.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
This type of system defeats playing a MMOG in my opinion. If you don't earn it, what's the point. Just say no.
No one is going to be able to buy ranks or better items. They're buying buffs, basically, or buying increased experience point gain, or buying reduced downtime.
Basically, they're buying an enhanced play experience. For as long as your credits hold out, your play experience is in "overdrive mode".
To maintain overdrive mode, the casual player doesn't need that many credits. They can just buy the cheaper version. To maintain overdrive mode, the hardcore player needs a lot more credits; they have to either pay more for more credits, or deal with the fact that only for some of their playtime will they be in peak form.
It's not that people with more money can buy their way to success, so much as it is that people who play more, will have to choose to either pay more or not be as tough for some of their online time.
Owyn
Commander, Defenders of Order
http://www.defendersoforder.com
And I never said I was pissed, I said I dont want this to ever become standard.
Saves most people 5$
Gets the rich kids of the e-baying thing
ANd you don't want this to be standard.
YOur just ingorant. Rich kids will ALWAYS have the advantages because of E-baying. So now the developer profits and not some exploiting asain company. It's a good thing this makes e-bay a lot less intresting for this game and reveneus will actaully go to the developing company so it can be spend on improving the rather the get some asain nitwit company rich on exploting peeps.
I really want people to see past the first impression and realize it's a good thing codemaster tries to do here. There actaully getting the cost down for most people by getting otherwise E-baying peeps to spend the money on the developer of the game so it can actaully be used to improve the game.
Imbalance because of people with to much money will alwas be there. To stay competitve you just need to spend more time. It's really rare that people with loads of money also spend 40+ hours of play sins they have the option to do RL fun things that cost loads of money
This type of system defeats playing a MMOG in my opinion. If you don't earn it, what's the point. Just say no.
i beg to differ. A lot of mmorpg companies have taken active steps to stop e-baying but with very little succes. Sony was one of them the concluded that "If you can't beat join ehm" so now they have there own item shop althought there still money,character and PL services for sony games Item sales plunched after sony opend up there own item shop. So it's just helping get the money that will be spend anyway by the game developers rather then to somebody just profitting from tyhe excistense from the game.
Also a lot people complaining that kids with to much time on there hands domenate the "end game". Not everybody has the time to spend 40+ hours playing so it a trade off. One part of the people will use there hard earned cash to compansed for the fact there not in scghool and have loads of free time on there hand.
I don't understand why people who have $20 or so more disposable income are being referred to as "rich kids." Is that going to be the new insult? Also, just for general information, most of the people who I game with are adults, many married with children, and would laugh at anyone who called them a "rich kid."
I don't know much about these sorts of schemes. I don't know if the people who pay more will maintain that edge or if, with time, it all evens out. I do know that PvP oriented MMOs are a completely different animal than game such as EQ and WoW. I wouldn't bother paying extra for games like that... what's the point? They don't bring out my competitive nature. Why would I compete with other people to better be able to PvE? PvP, on the other hand, is all about competing and I think a lot of people would feel pressured into buying the top tier so they wouldn't be left behind. On the other hand, if you're not bothered, a tenner a month isn't a bad deal.
I'm not interested Archlord... it's definitely not the sort of PvP game I'd enjoy... I'm not sure I wouldn't pay to compete if it was, though. As I don't have the time or inclination to become involved with a PvP game like I was with Shadowbane, I may never know!
I don't personally care about any 'earning it' arguments or about the exact amount of money for a monthly fee. Typically 'earning it' equates to just spending absurd amounts of time repeating boring tasks over and over and possibly enduring being in a raid guild, not any kind of actual accomplishment.
The reason I won't pay for a game like this is that it provides a financial incentive for the game makers to make the game as boring and unsatisfying as they can get away with in the 'low fee' part of the game to encourage people to move to the more expensive plan. Same thing with 'cash for money' games, it just encourages the developers to make items expensive and money-making boring so that they can make more profit on money (or item) sales. Setting up a plan like this is pretty much like a declaration from the game-maker that they're out to make part of the game suck in order to rake in the 'premium' fees from people, something which I'm not interested in.
C
Well paying for playing most MMOs these days is like being punched in the face continiously while online. You start off rearing to go, not remembering the pains from the last session, and log off dizzy, half blind, and your char just gained 1/8 of a level. These guys are saying you can pay more, and get softer punches.. more like happy slaps. Pay more for less pain! Must be a business model in somewhere that!
hmmmmmmmmmmm
I want to know how powerful about the "lord"
Just got back from a mentally draining threesome (OK no kinky ideas here, it was just a 1 guy + 2 girls talk over coffee and some heavy dinner), so I wasn't about to scour the whole 10 pages of this thread.
But I did checked out the Archlord's pay plan link and fuck me if I see the 'Lord' rates are the same for BOTH US Dollars and Euro? And don't VAT applies to the British Pound Sterling rates? Which financial planner did they use and what weed was he/she on when it got prepped?
Here in Malaysia, that amount after 6 months can get me a pretty decent and new gaming rig FFS
I might as well sign my ass up for Windows LIVE for life at those rates...
Its not acceptable, and never should be. People with alot of money already have a better life, allowing them to have more fun in a game because of their income is just wrong, and stupid.
They already have more fun in the game.
They get to play on a state of the art system with a 30 inch monitor with surround sound speakers and a rumble seat.
They get to take the day off to farm items while you're at work.
I feel this method is acceptable.
If you can't afford $40 a month then you should go to college and get a job.
Its the same logic you use on the people who say $15 a month is too much, so it applies to you too.
I hope this becomes industry standard so people wake up. The MMORPG industry will charge you ANYTHING THAT IT THINK IT CAN GET AWAY WITH.
The fees will keep going up because we accepted $15 a month for no content.
So we'll accept $40 a month for content.
Then we'll accept $40 a month for no content.
And we'll accept $50 for content + customer service.
THen we'll find out that even for $50 a month they still charge you for expansions.
It never stops. It never ends. The fees just keep going up because there is an army of morons willing to pay those fees, whether they get anything for the fee or not.
So no, $40 isn't a huge leap. You're already paying $15, why not $40. It's still only about 1 dollar per day, its still an entertainment value. Heck even paying $5 a day is no big deal to most people.
How much is $5 a day monthly? $150 a month?
People spend more than $5 a day just to buy a pack of cigarettes.
Where does it end?
It doesn't.
It started with people accepting the "pay to play" scheme.
When people stop accepting that scheme, the fees will end, gaming companies will sell you the box for $50 and you can play on private servers and everybody will still continue making a profit.
you know what fizzle... no wonder there are lots of people suffering around the world in poverty its because guys like you dont even care about others, all you care is about your luxury and all the money you have goes to you.. all you want is an advantage over somebody else... and you always want it the easy way. Why dont you just spend those $30 on charity instead and make some persons life worth living.
People like you who waste too much money on luxury should be banned in this planet lol
seiously, we need luxury, we need to spend money on things that make us happy... but too much... that is another story... Luky you that you got to be rich... or maybe all you needed to do was sit down since you dont need to work for the money cuz you inherited money. Me i never play games which needs you to pay monthly just to play the game you already bought... thats why i dont play these types of games, I play diablo, starcraft, half life, guild wars, heck i dont even play games that have virtual stores which you can use real cash to buy items.
I sense your one of those guys who would buy elephant tusks for the ivory, no wonder there are still poachers around. If someone buys it, there is a demand, and if there is demand, there are people who supply it no matter what and they dictate the pricing. It is dumbasses like you who creates this foolish demand in the first place.
i~ku~ra
This could all be avoided if we lived in a nice communist society. Who wants to join the Revolution?
"Kaneda! What...do you see?"