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SOE; the Vision killer
Reehay
Member Posts: 172
make no mistake, SOE will eventually absorb Vanguard just like it did Everquest. this is a business, duh. and if you think the partnership with SOE isnt a preclude to a buyout then you're naive. The great "Vision" you have so much faith in will get sold out and the barrage of SOE's meaningless, half-hearted expansions will begin. but hey, the north american economy is built on sucker consumers--let the spending begin muahaha
i'm no simple VG or SOE hater. i understand the business. i'll be playing VG as well. but i have no illusions what SOE's partnership with Sigil means, and neither should you.
Comments
You don't say?
You are probably right..........but we have all heard this about 100,000+ times at this point, thanks for the reminder.
Any other lighting bolts of "enlightenment" regarding SOE could maybe go in the "I hate SOE" thread that the mods made for subjects about why you might not like/hate SOE.
SOE sucks we know...Turbine sucks.......we know........all MMO companies suck according to someone ........we know.............western MMO's pretty much have let us all down.............we know............maybe the next round will be better..........we all hope.
Exactly.
I've heard it a million... times. /yawn
Current MMO of interest: Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
MMO background: EQ, UO, AO, SWG, PS, EQ2, L2,EQoA, WoW, WWIIO, and AC2
How about making a unique "We love Vanguard because...." thread, where all the people who like Vanguard will post, while deleting all other posts?
Doesn't make sense does it?
Neither making a silly single "Hate Soe" thread does.
Go SOE go!!!
PS: Of course I think that the majority of threads against SoE are repetitive, just let them die, if they don t add anything new.
But limiting people freedom to protest in 1 single forgotten thread, just benefit the big Corporations not the consumers.........
How about making a unique "We love Vanguard because...." thread, where all the people who like Vanguard will post, while deleting all other posts?
Doesn't make sense does it?
Neither making a silly single "Hate Soe" thread does.
Go SOE go!!!
PS: Of course I think that the majority of threads against SoE are repetitive, just let them die, if they don t add anything new.
But limiting people freedom to protest in 1 single forgotten thread, just benefit the big Corporations not the consumers.........
Hey ste2000, welcome back.......
I remember you use to be one of Vanguards champions (I mean that in a positive way
) back before the SOE announcement then you dropped off......
Whats your take on it lately?
I agree with you on the SOE thingy, but then I feel almost all the MMO companies have let us down is some way lol. (my glass is half empty
)
Just popping in to see what's going on these boards.
I left MMORPG.com after the "We hate SOE" thread, I think it was a very silly thing to do.
I thought MMORPG.com was a free and honest site, but to me, that was another example of "ninja censorship" which we often see in the official forums, we don't need it here as well.
But then again when Mr Smedley call the staff to complain about people abusing his game, usually people tend to obey the Master.
Nevermind that s life.
PS: Did the SOE rappresentatives undercover left as well?
I mean, the 20 people with less than 10 post which all of a sudden sprung out like mushrooms after the Soe "semi-take over", defending the move through their teeth and pretending to be Vanguard fans for ages?
I bet they left after 1 week........Mission accomplished, well done guys
Just popping in to see what's going on these boards.
I left MMORPG.com after the "We hate SOE" thread, I think it was a very silly thing to do.
I thought MMORPG.com was a free and honest site, but to me, that was another example of "ninja censorship" which we often see in the official forums, we don't need it here as well.
But then again when Mr Smedley call the staff to complain about people abusing his game, usually people tend to obey the Master.
Nevermind that s life.
PS: Did the SOE rappresentatives undercover left as well?
I mean, the 20 people with less than 10 post which all of a sudden sprung out like mushrooms after the Soe "semi-take over", defending the move through their teeth and pretending to be Vanguard fans for ages?
I bet they left after 1 week........Mission accomplished, well done guys
Many of us long time MMORPG posters complained endlessly about the boards being taken over by SOE haters. They constantly made new SOE and Vanguard bashing posts, and hijacked or bumped down any post that wasn't full of SOE hatred. Sadly, even with the SOE hate post the boards still have a number of trolls who have no interest in this game posting here just to bash it.
You see, I always thought MMORPG.com was a site with great information about MMORPGs, but lately it has become a hangout for Eve fans and SOE haters.
There is no smoke without fire.
And people needs to be aware of the fire, so if they want to mess with it, they know what they are letting themselves into.
I don't see lots of Blizzard haters around, and with 6 millions customers chances are that they could potentially upset more people than SOE.
But that's not the case.......(yes people complain about minor aspects of course, but nobody is boycotting Blizzard)
Anyway I agree that there are too many that like to exploit the situation just to upset Vanboys, even if they never followed Vanguard, but treating everyone as equal and relegating them in a single pointless thread, it s not the solution.
There is no smoke without fire.
And people needs to be aware of the fire, so if they want to mess with it, they know what they are letting themselves into.
I don't see lots of Blizzard haters around, and with 6 millions customers chances are that they could potentially upset more people than SOE.
But that's not the case.......(yes people complain of course, but nobody is boycotting Blizzard)
Anyway I agree that there are too many that like to exploit the situation just to upset Vanboys, even if they never followed Vanguard.
Well personally, I dont care for the SOE haters mainly because it accomplishes nothing constructive and adds nothing to the community. I'll say it, SOE sucks ...so what? They make a damn video game its not that important that I need to bare a grudge about it.
The difference between SOE and Blizzard? Well first off Bliz made an appealing, accessible game. Second, Bliz hasn't ripped the guts out of WoW with total revamps. Yes they do revamps here and there but not to the extent that SOE does. Seen SWG lately? Its a pathetic joke. The game is over 3 years old and they are still figuring out the skills to give to the new classes. You can't even really compare the two IMHO.
Anyway, I still watch vanguard. I look at it from the position of an MMO fan. I hope it works out. It would be nice to have a quality game to choose from becsides the small handful we have. (I can count on one hand the games I feel are quality)
I have very mixed feelings about vanguard that are totally unSOE related. It just "looks" like more of the same. Sounds grindy. There is no compelling point so far aside from leveling for the sake of leveling and Raids. And if they plan on using kill task, it will be a P.O.S. I'm pretty sure I speak for many when I say "we are not impressed with go kill 10 rats" any longer.
Yes, they have given a good amount of info but nothing packing any oomph so far. I hope Im wrong. When a crap game releases we all lose and the MMO market slips a bit closer to the "bad idea" section of the game industry. If the failures keep up, no one will want to make these games anymore.
hehe, go look at the gamelist as well as the wow forum, theres indeed alot of blizzard haters here....probably alot more than soe haters, the thing is they are out numbered by the wow fanbois(or maybe not).
thats funny wow controls more than half the mmog market but yet cant even break the top 10 in the gamelist on mmorpg.com, clearly there is nobody hating on blizzard here.
There is no smoke without fire.
And people needs to be aware of the fire, so if they want to mess with it, they know what they are letting themselves into.
I don't see lots of Blizzard haters around, and with 6 millions customers chances are that they could potentially upset more people than SOE.
But that's not the case.......(yes people complain of course, but nobody is boycotting Blizzard)
Anyway I agree that there are too many that like to exploit the situation just to upset Vanboys, even if they never followed Vanguard.
Well personally, I dont care for the SOE haters mainly because it accomplishes nothing constructive and adds nothing to the community. I'll say it, SOE sucks ...so what? They make a damn video game its not that important that I need to bare a grudge about it.
The difference between SOE and Blizzard? Well first off Bliz made an appealing, accessible game. Second, Bliz hasn't ripped the guts out of WoW with total revamps. Yes they do revamps here and there but not to the extent that SOE does. Seen SWG lately? Its a pathetic joke.
That's my point mate.
And I agree with you, there is no need to keep the grudge.
That's why I disappeared from this board for over 3 months without making it a bigger deal.
But people needs to know both sides of the story, before making a choice.
So from time to time i'll remind to people, what SoE is all about from an ex-customer point of view, that's the minimun a puny little consumer can do to counter-balance the marketing machine of big corporations like SOE.
hehe, go look at the gamelist as well as the wow forum, theres indeed alot of blizzard haters here....probably alot more than soe haters, the thing is they are out numbered by the wow fanbois(or maybe not).
thats funny wow controls more than half the mmog market but yet cant even break the top 10 in the gamelist on mmorpg.com, clearly there is nobody hating on blizzard here.
No mate, there are lots of WOW haters, not Blizzard haters.
They are 2 different things.
Personally, I don't like WOW, but I still respect Blizzard because so far they didn't upset their actual customers, like SOE keep doing.
good point, but i still see alot of "f u blizzard" posts. i do agree that blizzard is a far better company that soe, as a matter of fact blizzard has always been one of my favorite company's....i have been playing their games for more than 8 years now.
As for Vanguard, I think moving to SOE was a step up. If there is a MMO company with a far worse track record than SOE (and I can think of a couple) the worst is MS. Their best MMO involvement was with AC. Their only other MMO was AC2 and it ended up getting the axe (something that has happened to only two major MMOs that I can think of). So I can see those who hate SOE for what happened to SWG, but I can't see them thinking it was better for Vanguard to stick with MS.
Look what they did with DDO and you will understand that Turbine are the only ones guilty of AC2 failure.
SOE not only ruined SWG, revamping class and combat system, but also EQ (and don't forget they tried to clone WOW with EQ2 and the work is still under way).
Regarding EQ1, the change wasn't so obvious like in SWG.
They kept nerfing classes until each classes at turn were less and less distinctive, with some classes even becoming redundant, and after spending 2-3 years to maximise a toon, you can imagine how much people were happy to know that they can now throw their character and all of their effort out of the window.
They also made the gameplay much more easy with POP, trying to make it more accessible to more people.
Their luck with EQ1 is that although they alienated part of the original players like me, they attracted enough new players to keep EQ1 alive (and no, they didn't get more subscribers in the end).
Therefore their gamble paid off.
But that doesn't change the fact that their behaviour upset a lot of original players who spent many years building their character, and disregarded completely what those people may feel once their character has been nerfed to the bone, and the gameplay watered down.
So it is not a one off, it's not just SWG, it's also EQ and EQ2 for some degree, it is their way to make business that stinks.
The problem with SOE is that they don't give a damn about their customers, they use you, and then they throw you away when there is chance to make more money with "new" customers, forgetting who paid their wages for all those years.
The funny bit is that EQ, SWG and for some extent EQ2, were pretty good games when they launched (if u forget the usual bugs), which is very difficult to achieve.
What on earth they smoke which cause them to think that their games needs major revamps, it s beyond me.
"Don't try to fix what is not broken" - I bet SOE never heard of it.........
The main problem with all 3 titles from each of their begins is the lack of any creative content/compelling purpose. (in addition to the mountain of technical issues) They where all massive grinders.
My first day in SWG (back in the day) the community promptly packed me up and sent me off to Dant to kill Bols. There I stayed with the majority of SWG players while they took new professions, dropped them and took new ones. Weee......it was fun
(not) We killed Bols until my eyes bled. It was pathetic.The NGE didn't bother me, the game was junk to begin with. It had a few nice mechanical things but that was it. The majority of these SOE haters are disenfranchised ex-SWG players. They remember seeing everything through rose colored glasses and forgot how bad/dull/unfocused/non-SW like/grindy/buggy the game really was(and still is).
EQ2...........kill task.........you may as well put those "mission terminals" in EQ2 also, for all the thought and creativity they put into that game.
I don't recall the original EQ very well, I only played it a few weeks. My impression was slow grind.
All 3 of these games lacked any compelling reason or purpose to play. You level for the sake of leveling (or profession swapping) and all you have to look forward to is more levels. Throw a few raids in, and thats it. Thats not RPG. Thats poor game design.
And all of this from an ex-L2 players lol
. L2 has 2 things that very few games bring to the table.
To bad they over-did it on the grind.
For better or worse, the world of L2 is controlled by the players.
How many games can say they do that? 3, maybe 4? A game without Impact or at least a counter balance of consequense to the reward isn't a very good game IMHO. Take WoW for example (now don't get me wrong, I play and enjoy WoW) you "win" all the time. There are no penalties and you have no impact. WoW, although fun to play, lacks challenge.
So, I would say to SOE, leave the mechanics of your games alone (as you said, if its not broken....) Instead work on the drab/dull world they have created. (and I am not advocating PvP, I am advocating compelling purpose and challenge to play) How do you mess up Star Wars, the most exciting sci-fi movies ever, and make this wierd grind Star Wars "Bol hunter extream" that has nothing to do with Star Wars???
The compelling purpose in SW is defeat the Empire. How do you miss that point? It was totally overlooked. It was put in (and taken out and put in then taken out now, I guess, put in again.......you could go f*&king insane playing an SOE game
) in a careless off-handed, not very well thought out way. It had no impact of substance.
I also started off playing SWG shortly after release, and I can honestly say that as much as I loved the game world and even the game play, the game itself was never great and way too shallow. They never finished the beta and were never able to achieve balance or even a purpose. It was probably the only game where I would go and just run around the land, then pull up into a cantina and tip total strangers. I even changed my clothes depending on the weather. But really, the game was never much more than SWG sims (although I have to say the BE class was the best and most involved crafting of any game I have ever played). SWG was never a great game and what drives me crazy the most is those who pin the entire blame on SOE and absolutely absolve Lucas Arts of their involvement.
As for EQ2, I never was a big fan, but I have friends who play that say the game has done nothing but get better since release.
Alot of people who never played SWG don't understand why the hatred is so strong against SOE amongst former customers, let me enlighten you:
SOE Releases a new expansion for SWG (Trials of Obi Wan), the expansion is hyped and many players have pre-ordered. People are buying this expansion due to all the extra items you get with it that buff you in combat and help in just about all professions.
A few days after release the entire game is revamped, the new items and gear you git with the expansion is next to useless. Also your profession is no longer in the game and you have to change to one of the new ones. That Jedi you spent months grinding for is now one of the new professions that is selectable from the start.
Many angry customers ask for their money back since they weren't informed of this revamp, and infact when a rumour was leaked about it a month earlier SOE denied it was true. SOE refuse to payback the customers and obviously held back on the revamp until all the preordered boxes had been shipped.
Now maybe you could find it in your hearts to show those 100,000+ customers who were mercilessly ripped off some pity? Also they just don't want the same to happen to you guys, so be tough from the start and never give those DEVs an inch. I wouldn't want the same thing to happen to Vanguard, another game with great potential that doesn't need SOE to butcher it.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Your friendly neighborhood bootstrut!
You will learn in life that what people say in public is very different from what they say in private.
Of course this buy out of Sigil might never happen, it all depends on how good Vanguard perform at launch.
But I can list to you thousands of example of Companies CEOs who denied categorically rumors of possible take overs from other companies, for then being bought out the week after by the same company they denied the rumors.
Brad and Smed aren't exactly Jesus and Ghandi, but 2 business man who put the interest of their companies before the interests of their customers.
If you believe blindly everything this kind of people say to you, then you will have big problems in your life.
You will learn in life that what people say in public is very different from what they say in private.
Of course this buy out of Sigil might never happen, it all depends on how good Vanguard perform at launch.
But I can list to you thousands of example of Companies CEOs who denied categorically rumors of possible take overs from other companies, for then being bought out the week after by the same company they denied the rumors.
Brad and Smed aren't exactly Jesus and Ghandi, but 2 business man who put the interest of their companies before the interests of their customers.
If you believe blindly everything this kind of people say to you, then you will have big problems in your life.
I couldn't really say it better my self. Well said Ste.
Total time played: 9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds
Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds