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Looking for a non-class-based MMORPG + SWG rant
TheMiracleDT
Member Posts: 63
To skip my rant, please read only the last line.
---
If you are one of the many people who have managed to get that most
painful moment in MMORPG history out of you minds, please do not read
this. Unforetuneatly, I am not one of them, and I will be forced to
discuss... Star Wars Galaxies before the NGE, and eventually get to my
question.
The reason why I did not say Pre-CU or Post CU/Pre-NGE is because of
the hundreds of mixed oppinions on the matter (for the record, I will
state that I never played Pre-CU). But the simple fact is that even if
you feel Star Wars Galaxies was hurt by the CU, it was still the best
games on the internet, with complex player cities and PvP battles
taking areas, in one case I witnessed, even taking a player city
hostage. Just think of it, a world based on the most succesful Sci-Fi
stories in history, with players battling for themselves and their
faction, but also establishing towns, voting for mayors, buying
furniture, hunting banthas to wierd lizzards to krayt dragons, training
in skills to use monsters as transportation and as powerful weapons,
blasting through the walls of enemy outposts and stomping through with
an AT-ST beside, hinding in the shadows of cantinas and starports to
eliminate their target as he passes through, working hard to dance or
research, setting up theaters, cantinas and hospitals, finally
obtaining the Jedi status, proudly slashing about with lightsabers,
releasing probe droids to find your target, locking in on him and
firing as he tries to swing back at you, collecting your reward and
walking away into one of two sunsets through the fields of harvesters
pumping resources from the smoldering sand. SWG was an extremely
satisfying experience.
I'm going to try to say this quickly, because I could go on for hours:
SOE thought they could get more money with retarted kids than with the
deeper audience (late teens and up), so they took away everything that
made the game unique and interesting, and made it a point-and-click
piece of crap. You could pick to be a jedi or one of 7 other classes as
soon as you started. Everyone quit.
But in fact, only 2 aspects of the game had changed: skills and quests.
Skills changed by becoming a point-based training process for specific
items such as Rifles, Pistols, Light Armor, Harvesting, etc. and
instead were now included with the job, or were used in the same way by
everyone. The quests had been a matter of either going to a quest
panel, selecting a job such as killing a group of Banthas including the
assembly of rocks in which they lived or approaching an important
figure such as a mayor or crime lord and asking to work for him. And
was now a matter of receiving a job-based item (such as Stolen
Microfilm for Spies), going to an NPC, doing what they said, and then
grinding until you get the next quest item about 7 or so levels later
(much of the latter was broken for long after the NGE release).
The effect of these changes was that players felt confined and limited
to point-and-click gameplay while folliwing the simple path laid out
for them, as opposed to the ground-breaking system that had once
existed. This just goes to show how much the leveling system can change
a game, even if quests are included to welcome the changes.
--
So now I ask, are there any games left with at least (and hopefully
more than) decent skill-based levelling systems? You are welcome to
comment on my rant.
Thanks in advance, TheMiracleDT.
---
If you are one of the many people who have managed to get that most
painful moment in MMORPG history out of you minds, please do not read
this. Unforetuneatly, I am not one of them, and I will be forced to
discuss... Star Wars Galaxies before the NGE, and eventually get to my
question.
The reason why I did not say Pre-CU or Post CU/Pre-NGE is because of
the hundreds of mixed oppinions on the matter (for the record, I will
state that I never played Pre-CU). But the simple fact is that even if
you feel Star Wars Galaxies was hurt by the CU, it was still the best
games on the internet, with complex player cities and PvP battles
taking areas, in one case I witnessed, even taking a player city
hostage. Just think of it, a world based on the most succesful Sci-Fi
stories in history, with players battling for themselves and their
faction, but also establishing towns, voting for mayors, buying
furniture, hunting banthas to wierd lizzards to krayt dragons, training
in skills to use monsters as transportation and as powerful weapons,
blasting through the walls of enemy outposts and stomping through with
an AT-ST beside, hinding in the shadows of cantinas and starports to
eliminate their target as he passes through, working hard to dance or
research, setting up theaters, cantinas and hospitals, finally
obtaining the Jedi status, proudly slashing about with lightsabers,
releasing probe droids to find your target, locking in on him and
firing as he tries to swing back at you, collecting your reward and
walking away into one of two sunsets through the fields of harvesters
pumping resources from the smoldering sand. SWG was an extremely
satisfying experience.
I'm going to try to say this quickly, because I could go on for hours:
SOE thought they could get more money with retarted kids than with the
deeper audience (late teens and up), so they took away everything that
made the game unique and interesting, and made it a point-and-click
piece of crap. You could pick to be a jedi or one of 7 other classes as
soon as you started. Everyone quit.
But in fact, only 2 aspects of the game had changed: skills and quests.
Skills changed by becoming a point-based training process for specific
items such as Rifles, Pistols, Light Armor, Harvesting, etc. and
instead were now included with the job, or were used in the same way by
everyone. The quests had been a matter of either going to a quest
panel, selecting a job such as killing a group of Banthas including the
assembly of rocks in which they lived or approaching an important
figure such as a mayor or crime lord and asking to work for him. And
was now a matter of receiving a job-based item (such as Stolen
Microfilm for Spies), going to an NPC, doing what they said, and then
grinding until you get the next quest item about 7 or so levels later
(much of the latter was broken for long after the NGE release).
The effect of these changes was that players felt confined and limited
to point-and-click gameplay while folliwing the simple path laid out
for them, as opposed to the ground-breaking system that had once
existed. This just goes to show how much the leveling system can change
a game, even if quests are included to welcome the changes.
--
So now I ask, are there any games left with at least (and hopefully
more than) decent skill-based levelling systems? You are welcome to
comment on my rant.
Thanks in advance, TheMiracleDT.
Comments
While I find the game has a lot of down time, it is classless and skill based.
Download the trial, but you have to give it time. I found the tutorial frustrating. It does
get better. EVE is different and isn't everyone's cup of tea.
I haven't tried SWG, but many comes to Ryzom saying it's the closest thing to Pre CU SWG you can get. There's a free play-forever trial and we have no classes and a great harvest/crafting system on our planet.
As I understand it, SWGers will miss customizable houses and animal taming. But the gameplay is rather deep and a sandbox-type of player will have a great time.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Althought this game is old, Asheron's Call may be what you are looking for. Character advancement is skilled based, and from what I hear, there are plenty of quests to do. Might be worth a shot.
You do not know what you are talking about. Because of your ignorance I will ignore further comments by you as YOU are clearly the one trolling.
Isn't RFO pretty much as far away from a pre-cu SWG as you can come? Please explain
Level 1
attack 2
defesnse 1
agility 1
Skills unlimited
You do not know what you are talking about. Because of your ignorance I will ignore further comments by you as YOU are clearly the one trolling.
I loved Asheron's Call!
If you don't mind the outdated graphics or anything, AC is definitely a good classless MMO.
As a former pre-cu Jedi and someone who played Ryzom's trial for about 3 weeks, I would recommend giving Ryzom a shot. It doesn't have all the tools that SWG did (cantinas or entertainers, etc.), but it's a very open game.
When you're on the island, things are very quest based. Once you leave, it's totally open. In fact, I believe there are no missions at all worth taking--you can grind if you want, or just explore, or craft. Harvesting and crafting are one of the primary activities as it's a resource game, much like SWG was. It's crafting system is not as involved as pre-cu SWG, but it's pretty good and fun.
It's definitely worth a try, and if you like it at all, I strongly recommend a month so you can see what it's like off of the trail isle.
In the end, my gaming tastes took me in a completely unexpected direction. But I most assuredly can recommend Ryzom if you want some of that ol' SWG feel.
Good luck!
Apply lemon juice and candle flame here to reveal secret message.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Is this some kind of tantrum?
To anyone who actually helped,
I've been looking around feverishly and still havent found anything as good as SWG. I tried Ryzom as well, but the skill systems go from 4 different areas and then each split in two, it just doesnt seem as interesting as a better skill system. Thanks for all of your suggestions, I'll keep on searching.
EDIT: nvm, I just noticed u had tried out the game I mentioned...lol That will teach me not to keep reading....
Anarchy Online maybe? It is old but its free (the main part), but pretty damn well made skill and character wise. Was my first true MMO love.
Is this some kind of tantrum?
is this?
It's nice that you got to check out SWG before the mess. It is now known as CSWG (Classic SWG). I played SWG from the first day, non-stop to its first year. Then afterwards, off and on.
No current mmorpg matches what CSWG had. Though I do here that UO comes the closest. (Makes sence, since all the SWG aka CSWG game DEVs came from UO lol.) UO has very outdated graphics, but is suppose to have very superiour gameplay. Proof of this is the fact that ancient UO currently has more/or the same number of subscribers as many brand new mmorpgs! Including EQ2, EvE, etc... etc...
Other mmorpgs that have some percentage of what CSWG had are AO.
CSWG was roughly 95% Skill Based/5% Level Based.
UO is suppose to be the same. I have not played UO though.
Are you shitting me? SWG was all about PvP. It had the best PvP system i have ever played. I loved that game Pre NGE. On Bloodfin, i was in the biggest Imperial guild, everyday, we'd roll through the galaxy looking for nasty Rebels to hunt down and destroy for our faithful Emperor.
What kind of game are you looking for? WoW? SWG was the first and so far ONLY fully player made economy. There was no looting credits (back then) and you made money by missions. You would spend that money by buying things from players. I remember when it launched, after a few days, i was lost on Tatooine running around, and found a big camp of Jawas. I annihilated them all. Looted two or 3 Jawa Ion Rifles, and that was the best Rifle at the time (before people could craft better).
I sold a few of them for 3k credits, yes, 3k credits, back then, that was a lot. Oh how i miss SWG = (
Greatest MMO experience i have ever had in my life. Our whole guild, and basically the server, moved to WoW, which wasnt what anyone liked. PvP is shit, just a zerg fest...
Since then, i yet to enjoy a MMO the same.
You may want to give the game Force of Arms a look. It's a futuristic MMORPG that is still under development, but it appears they will be offering a skill based progression system. I realize that this suggestion doesn't do you much good if you're looking for a game to play today. Here's the site link in case you're interested.
http://www.ForceOfArms.com
The devs there seem to have experienced your same sort of frustration.
Try Face of Mankind.
http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/overview/gameID/91
I haven't played it, but I've heard some good things about it.
SWG was ,...... yea sad sad day when it changed.
Guildwars is the best skill based game to date right now,no if's an's or but's about it,.the pvp is great and the npcing is vary good to,.but with that said guildwars npc side of things can get really boring after a few times over and the best parts of pvp are when your in a good guild an on TS.
Eve-online,dont demand your time at first,but its a waiting game.after a few months it really opens up and is probly the best sandbox out there.The pvp can be the best,but allso can be the most boring.It seems you had a open mind about the game so theres no need to say anymore.
Saga of ryzom I dont want to diss,It has ALOT of good points about it.But in the end its not really a skill based game,.its more of a level based game,.theres no way a subparr player could kill a maxed out player,it shares the same effects of big level gaps like EQ2 or DAOC an that takes away from the fun of pvp.It allso suffers from the effects of "crazy grinding" and loss of XP that can take away your intrests in playing.