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Is there crafting?
jmillerdls
Member Posts: 42
Has anyone heard anything about crafting in this game?
I've yet to hear anyone mention whether there will be any, and if so...how it will work.
I
played Horizons for a little while, almost entirely because of how
great the crafting was set up in that game. Or, at least how much
better it is than others.
After WOW, I'm looking for a game
that will actually meet its potential for those of us who enjoy
crafting just as much as exploring.
I've yet to hear anyone mention whether there will be any, and if so...how it will work.
I
played Horizons for a little while, almost entirely because of how
great the crafting was set up in that game. Or, at least how much
better it is than others.
After WOW, I'm looking for a game
that will actually meet its potential for those of us who enjoy
crafting just as much as exploring.
Comments
There absolutely will be crafting. The devs haven't discussed it in much detail yet but your best bet is to head over to the official boards and check the dev diarys.
The crafting system sounds VERY similar to that of Horizons...and actually sounds like it has some added depth.
After reading through this, I'm convinced this is the game for me. I just hope I can make it into beta and verify it before it gets released. Good stuff.
There are two dev diary posts about the crafting system if you'd want to know more:
Part of Useful and Comely Things
Crafting is an interesting proposition. It has factored into games in a lot of different ways, sometimes as heavy features, sometimes as cursory play experiences. The idea of crafting in Middle-earth is a weighty one; items have power in Middle-earth, and for a number of reasons. Take for example, Boromir's sword. "Boromir had a long sword, in fashion like Andúril but of less lineage and he bore also a shield and his war-horn." (The Fellowship of the Ring, "The Ring Goes South") We think of Andúril as a special sword, imbued with special properties. Boromir's sword, not so much. By saying "in fashion like Andúril," the implication is that these swords were fashioned in the same way; perhaps by the same smith, but at least of the same material and design. So why is Andúril special?
In many fantasy works, a sword becomes special when specifically enchanted, by the virtue of the smith who forged it, or as a result of the materials from which it is forged. Tolkien adds another factor to this: the idea of lineage, that a sword can have a destiny of its own. Andúril was made great by those who forged it and those who wielded it, but also by the history it bore witness to. We knew right away that we wanted to capture aspects of this for our crafting system as well.
So, let's return to the premise: A good game, and good systems within the game, are made interesting and fun by the interactions between good restrictions, interesting rules, and variably predictable reactions between those factors. We set out to establish what the system should achieve, and the restrictions that would fall out of that. Here's what we ended up with:
Crafting in LOTRO is a focused system, replete with individual accomplishments and points of advancement. We created an advancement path for crafting that in effect parallels the story and numeric progression that a player will experience through the course of the game. These decisions dictated the overall "shape" of the system; the system has clear paths that you advance along via crafting. The more you craft, the better you get at crafting, unrelated to how many orcs you gut. We want distinct advancement milestones as part of the experience, and that means a series of "gating" events – reasons you couldn't craft a particular item.
The sense of specialization is balanced by the need for accessibility. We wanted all players to be able to casually experience a wide range of what crafting has to offer, while creating a niche for dedicated crafters. Dedicated crafters should truly be able to establish a social identity as a crafter. This leads to one of the more interesting concepts of the system: the idea of Proficiency versus Mastery, a dual-level advancement path. It also leads to the concepts of Vocation and Profession; a player trains a Vocation, which is a bundle of three Professions – a Profession is something like Metalsmithing, while Armorer, as a Vocation, teaches a player the bundle of Leatherworking, Metalsmithing, and Prospecting (gathering raw materials).
Furthermore, we wanted to provide more incentive to explore the world. Raw material gathering is a good way to accomplish this. Now, this is one of the first areas where narrative and gameplay started to come into conflict (and let me tell you, this happens a lot). At no point in the books, while hiking through Moria, did Gimli yell, "Hold up a minute, there's some iron ore over here!"[2] However, I'm willing to give up a certain amount of that narrative consistency to elevate gameplay.
One restriction to investigate is location; the idea of forging an axe in the middle of a forest doesn't sit well with me, so this led to the idea of "forge" objects, to restrict crafting activities to certain areas. No forge, no crafting. This dovetails nicely with the desire to see crafting become a visible and inherently social activity.
Finally, we wanted to have a couple of core concepts to really differentiate the system, and give it the unique hooks it needs to truly stand out: the twin notions of optional ingredients, and critical successes. This means that a recipe can incorporate something special into its crafting, to try to produce something of a different level of quality entirely; crafted items have the chance to be of "similar fashion, but of greater lineage." Critical success is something special; something that only happens for truly dedicated crafters, something worth writing home about. Optional ingredients, special additions to a recipe that are not necessarily always physical materials (research into Second Age forging techniques, for example) are a player's way to alter the odds of a critical success in their favor.
Ok, so there's the concept. Concepts are easy. I can come up with three concepts before breakfast, and one of them, on average, might actually be passable. Concepts are cheap.[3] Doing stuff is not, so let's get to that. Here's how we made it happen:
We started with a pretty simple prototype; harvesting a resource, detecting a forge, executing a recipe, and producing a sword. With all the basic components working, we then went back to the drawing board to lay out plans for what breakdowns of content we wanted within the system. This led to a list of crafting Professions, and the outputs we wanted to see from each. The Professions, in turn, were grouped into Vocations. The Professions were broken down into Gathering and Production professions, and the Vocations created intuitive bundles of Professions that held some amount of conceptual water.
The final twist in the system was balancing the Vocations so that each one was partially self-sufficient, and partially dependent on other players. Let me give you an example: It makes perfect sense for an armor-crafting specialist to work with both light armor (Tailoring) and metal armor (Metalsmithing). The third profession in the trio is Prospecting, which gathers metal to work with. Metalsmithing and Prospecting form a primary pairing, Tailoring is thematically linked to Metalsmithing, but will require raw materials from elsewhere - say, another player - to produce.
Whew. Almost there. At this stage, we needed to start populating the world with raw materials, crafting-specific vendors, and trainers. Quests were made to intertwine with crafting. By the time we were done with the initial implementation, every design team, every art team, every engineering team, and every content team had contributed in some way to a system that, in the grand scheme of things, is actually rather self-contained.
Parts of Gandalf vs. Voltron:
First of all, let's answer the most common question I've been getting in a definitive and final** sort of way: what are the Vocations and Professions, and how do they relate to each other? The following are diagrams of the seven Vocations: Diamonds are "production professions" – tradeskills that make stuff and the Circles are "gathering professions" - professions that gather materials so that you can make stuff. You'll notice that there are seven Vocations, and seven production professions. Very shrewd of you! Except for the Scholar (whose materials are only found via loot), each production profession requires materials from another profession, so although there are multiple vocations that allow you to be a Tailor, only one of them also lets you be a Forester, which will provide needed materials for your own use.
The next frequently asked question has to do with each of the production professions, and what they actually make. Again, I'm here to help.
Weaponsmith
As expected, the Weaponsmith is the primary source of melee weapons. Swords, daggers, and axes of all varieties are the Weaponsmith's purview, ranging from bronze training gear to weapons of ancient design and great renown.
Metalsmith
Metal armors and sturdy shields are the metalsmith's domain. Though their initial products may be of simple make, eventually their skills will allow them to work finer materials and greater designs.
Tailor
A skilled tailor can make simple clothing from common cloth, but with time and practice can create garments of great beauty that provide significant protection to their wearer. The Tailor can also work with tanned hides to produce leather armor – light, tough and suitable for travel.
Jeweller***
Simple adornments and objects of beauty are the heart of the jeweller's trade. However, exceptional adornments can go far to increasing the stature and confidence of an adventurer, and a skilled jeweller can produce true works of art.
Woodworker
As any archer will tell you, it takes more than a stick and a string to make a worthy weapon. The woodworker is an expert bowyer, but expands his trade to include staves, spears, and other hafted weapons. A master Woodworker can produce weapons that even an Elven hero would be proud to wield on the battlefield.
Cook
A long march can be made all the easier with the promise of a good meal at the end. While it may seem a mundane talent, a good cook is every adventurer's best friend.
Scholar
Perhaps the most mysterious of the professions, the Scholar collects fragments of lost lore, and attempts to interpret their secrets. In doing so, he can produce scrolls that other craftsmen can read to improve their chances of producing a superior product. Other practical applications include lore by which specific enemies (orcs, trolls, the dead) might be best combated, or cures for various maladies.
You wanted details, and there you go! The last topic I want to cover in detail probably deserves its own diary: farming. Why? It's really its own thing. A little bit of resource gathering, a little bit of a "slot-machine" minigame, and maybe a little bit of hobbit shenanigans. Good stuff.
Go to : http://lotro.turbine.com/index.php?page_id=59 for the full dev diaries, including a nice chart of the crafting profs.
I read the exerpts from the dev diaries and I'm confused about a few points. First LOTRO from what I understand is to follow a fairly strict narrative. The proposed crafting system as stated in the article would mean deviations from the narrative. Which leads me to the question does anybody know how strict the narrative will be? Will the game be an A to B to C etc story progression, or will the story arc be less rigid and more tailored to crafting a different story for everyone? If it is a rigid story narrative will the proposed crafting system take away from the narrative?
I'm also wondering about the lineage discussion. To me it it couldn't work with a linear story progression. Two examples being a) an item can experience the same moment in the story arc multiple times degrading the moment or b) you will have multiple items with the same lineage which negates having the lineage at all. Why would Andunil(sp?) be special if everyone had it.
Has Turbine commented on any such things?