Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
I really Love/Hate this game
Lathial
Member UncommonPosts: 166
I love the game- the armor art- etc is pulled right from the PHB. I can sit around and make and plan out multiclass toons all day long. Its got a lot of depth.
I hate the game- Everyone has level 10 cleric/fighter/ (fill in the blank) alts. One of the best parts of playing an MMO is being unique. *most* people dont have 2 or three level 50-70 toons in EQ/EQ2/Wow. Most people have one toon that they have devoted the most time to -and a few low level alts. In D&D everyone has five level tens. Every group ive been in- and you group a lot (99%)- someone in that group has told me that they have a level 10 in the class im playing-
I acually feel sorry for them- its like they are sticking it out for a 2 level cap increase! One or two more spells! LOL/ I feel sorry for myself for liking the game. I just really wish they would have gone with a more (dare i say) normal open-ended type MMO.
Give me forests- give me mountains, give me random-ness or I'll just play eq2 or somthing.
Lath
Comments
I'm not really sure what you're getting at here.
But I see the words Eq2 so you're alright.
I agree 100% that they need a world to explore... yeah its out there as part of dozens of miniature adventure areas that are zone and instance locked. WHOOPIE!!!! Give me a world to expore and see... you could even put instanced adventure areas into it if you so desired. But give us an un-instanced contiguous world to explore (like in AC). Give us other cities to visit and adventure in. (expansion fodder). Etc. Give us things to do when we don't feel like questing... give us a WORLD, not just a game. Especially not just a game that's going to get eclipsed by a single player title coming out in a few weeks (NWN2). DDO barely qualifies as an MMORPG.... and as an MMORPG it's far over priced.
Give us houses, or apartments, that we can fill with items we gain in our travels or make with our hands.
Ahh well... I've said all this before.
DDO's quests are fun... but by themselves they're not enough for me to subscribe.... 13 days remaining till I run out of time
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Personally, I feel that DDO is the epitome of the "Fast Food" MMO, even more so then WoW. There's little to no chance at character individuality, what little there is of the world is bland and beyond boring, the quests (although sometime exciting) become old news very very quickly as that's pretty much all there is to do and the character classes, even though they are well thought out, are a downright bore in the end.
The list of cons to this game is so large and with so few pro's, I really don't understand what anyone was thinking putting this into procution.
That being said, there is something somewhat appealing to this game, I just can't put my finger on it. There's certainly some strong lore behind it, the community was friendly if not a little childish (I swear these people have never heard a girl in a mic playing a game before, WTF?), the graphics even though bland are well done and again the quests do have some inspired moments of fun.
Either way, without a world to enjoy, a with a huge lack of diversity and a meaningless multiplayer experience I just don't see the point in an MMO, espeically with so many quality rpg's out there right now.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
As to the 'girl in a microphone' syndrome you mentioned
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
As to the 'girl in a microphone' syndrome you mentioned
Actually the problem with mmorpgs is that they are unimaginative and they have flood the market with too many of them. That's why we have a trend of MMORPGs making it difficult for players to be surprised anymore and have hundreds of mmorpg flooding the market making it hard to stay on one game.
Yea, I was thinking more of the stand alone's, hence the meaningless multiplayer experience tie-in deal that I did there, see how clever I can be
.
But anyways, I don't think I'm as dissapointed with the mmo market as you are El. I look at the current market and although I'd certainly like to see more quality out there, I remind myself that now, more then ever, the mmo genre has more options then ever and bright future. Or maybe I'm just overly optimisitc
. Either way, don't aruge with me 
.
As for the female pop in DDO, it was weird, I only met one other girl in a group, very nice though and really into PnP stuff, which I've never been so it was a good learning experience for me that way.
It wasn't so much that the female population was low and that guy's were shocked, it was just the general crude behavior. I mean, at this point I'm pretty hard to faze when it comes to what guys say to you online, I've played in WoW raids on a mic for gods sake. But honestly, some of the DDO guys were just brutal. I don't know, maybe I just got unlucky this time around.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
Yea, I was thinking more of the stand alone's, hence the meaningless multiplayer experience tie-in deal that I did there, see how clever I can be
.
But anyways, I don't think I'm as dissapointed with the mmo market as you are El. I look at the current market and although I'd certainly like to see more quality out there, I remind myself that now, more then ever, the mmo genre has more options then ever and bright future. Or maybe I'm just overly optimisitc
. Either way, don't aruge with me 
.
As for the female pop in DDO, it was weird, I only met one other girl in a group, very nice though and really into PnP stuff, which I've never been so it was a good learning experience for me that way.
It wasn't so much that the female population was low and that guy's were shocked, it was just the general crude behavior. I mean, at this point I'm pretty hard to faze when it comes to what guys say to you online, I've played in WoW raids on a mic for gods sake. But honestly, some of the DDO guys were just brutal. I don't know, maybe I just got unlucky this time around.
I'd have to go with 'unlucky'. I don't ever recall a girl in a group catching flak really.... Matter of fact I was in a group with 2 women today... I wouldn't go so far to say that girls are "Common" in DDO... but the only other MMO that I recall grouping with true female players as often was SWG. As to your experience I honestly haven't seen/heard anything like that when I have played... must have been bad luck... that or in the 50 days I've been playing now (unbelievable and all of it free so far
Anyway... for the most part I've found the DDO community to be pretty fun and friendly in game. on the boards they're just as imbecillic as any other community but in game they all seem fairly nice for the greater part.
DDO's community is actually one of it's best points.... LOL
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Now Turbine has made matters worse by making drow unlocked by 'favor'. Everyone's just doing harbor quests on 'elite for faction'. Oh joy... now I get to go back and do all the newbie quests on hard because that'll help some bored level 10 unlock his f'in drow? WOOOOOOEEEEEEE fun stuff!
There's plenty of adventure.... problem is it's badly implemented and because of it everyone gravitates to the 8 or 9 "best" quests. Everything else is ignored unless you can get a group together yourself to do it. And that's hard to do because, again, everyone wants to do those 8 quests. Now and then you can get folks together for one of the less known quests... and when you can... it's some of the most fun I've ever had in a game. Unfortunately it's very hard to make that happen...
But... if it were FREE??? I'd play it. It's not a BAD game... it's just not worth a monthly fee.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
During my free trial I didn't feel like I was adventuring. I felt like I was grinding pointlessly toward the next level just so I could do it again. That's jus tmy opinion. I would not play if it was free. I'd rather play Oblivion, NWN, Mount&Blade, Uncharted Waters... you get the picture.
Diablo? I found myself doing the same type of attacks (mem your spell,
use the numbers to activate the spell, use left mouse to attack), 100%
instance missions, the inventory uses block icons, armour is restricting, found items are
"reserved" for certain party members, little customization to player toons...
I'm slightly disappointed because they expect to get monthly
subscriptions for this when GW and Diablo (2) are free to play
monthly. I don't understand. No wonder people are ditching this game
fast.
-W.
I too just did the trial thing (playing for 3 hours so far). And I must agree with most of what has been said in this thread.
What bothered me:
It plays like a single player game. There is nothing but quests and they unlock the next zone/level. I made it to the big city now, and I can see that this will continue. Dozens of doors in town with the quest sign above them... Cannot go further without doing the approriate quests first... You have to group with other players to do the quests, but there is only group interactivity as far as I can see. Chat channels are dead.
There seems to be no MMORPG, just a group game here.
While other companies bring out MMORPGs wth flawed game mechanics and buggy gameplay or servers, Turbine actually just misslabeled their game.
And as far as the actual quests go, they have the look and feel of early Tomb Raider. Actually the animation and mob AI is worse than Tomb Raider 1.
Also:
There seems to be no first person view. That's an immersion killer for me and why having good graphics, when you can't see up close?
I thought EQ2 was a game on rails, but its heaven compared to this. How many halfassed attempts at making a successfull MMORPG can survive out there till a true successor of EQ1 shows up?
Seems like alot of games are on life support or at least have only a very limited player base these days: DnL, SWG, DDO, MxO, EQ2, AO just to name a few.
Only Blizzard had a certain understanding what made EQ a great game and got rid of the tedious bits. Sadly in their attempt to make it fun all the time they got the progress timing wrong and made it extremely easy and fast to level.
The devs that use the elements that made EQ great and produce a serious MMORPG could get my money for years. (Vanguard, hopefully)
Brumazk
<p><blockquote><hr><i>Originally posted by Brumazk</i>
<b>
It plays like a single player game. There is nothing but quests and they unlock the next zone/level. I made it to the big city now, and I can see that this will continue. Dozens of doors in town with the quest sign above them... Cannot go further without doing the approriate quests first... You have to group with other players to do the quests, but there is only group interactivity as far as I can see. Chat channels are dead.
There seems to be no MMORPG, just a group game here.
There seems to be no first person view. That's an immersion killer for me and why having good graphics, when you can't see up close?
</b><hr></blockquote>
For those who don't know, there is no global chat channel, so the main chat channel only receives messages from your general vicinity.
I am reading your post as the game plays like a single player game because you don't see a huge number of people running around in the public areas, and to that I would agree, in part. What bothers me about a lot of reviews of the game is when people complain there's little solo content. I started with a soloable character figuring I wouldn't like group stuff much, but it was pretty boring. As soon as I started grouping, the game was 10 times more fun. I'm not a big fan of raids, even the mild 12-person raids DDO has, but four or six-person groups are big enough for squad tactics and friendly conversation yet small enough to not be impersonal.
The only quest I can think of that you have to do to get elsewhere is waterworks to get into the market. Getting into the market is where the real game starts.
Zooming all the way in doesn't quite get you a first-person view, but it's pretty close.
I'm surprised at the mention of players' reactions to females. I've been in groups with plenty of females and have never heard any comment worse than a surprised, "Wow, there's an actual female playing that female character," since a lot of female characters are played by males. And even those comments became rare pretty quick as people realized a decent number of women do play the game.
I also can't imagine pretty much any group I've ever been in tolerating crude behavior towards a female. Most of the players are on the mature side and are mostly friendly and don't like grouping with troublemakers. There are exceptions, of course, especially with certain guild groups who may have a troublemaker or two but who is "their" troublemaker so they cut them undue slack. If someone is a real jackass for whatever reason, they tend not to last long in Pick-Up Groups.
Like the OP, I like so much about the game yet hate so much else. Elnator said it well in another post about the three main things Turbine needs to do to help the game, and the most important was balancing the quests. There are a lot of quests in the game, but they are worth less xp or have crap loot so people don't run them much or may not even know about them. So many people have never even run the undead quest where the floor falls out from under you, which is one of the most "oh crap!" moments in the game. The game feels smaller than it is because no one wants to run the quests where the loot and xp sucks.
If Turbine had any real inclination to go after hardcore P&P D&D players, they move away from that at every opportunity. The base-attack sequence is screwed up, which is the basis of melee combat in D&D. I could easily play the game for months longer with various character builds, but when they change the rules of D&D seemingly on random whims, those builds no longer work like they should and so there is no reason to play them unless you don't mind playing a gimp.
Other gameplay aspects aside, I don't know how someone can screw up the rules and balance of 3.5 D&D as much as Turbine has.
edited to get the paragraphs to separate.
</p>
I think you're right that DDO is mislabeled, similar to Guild Wars, and that has caused a lot of problems in what people expect out of it. This being an MMO site, I understand the harsh reviews even though I think the game does certain "non-MMO" things well. 3.5 rules and miniatures have turned P&P D&D more tactical than ever, and DDO has a pretty good handle on that while using a first-person-shooter type of play to do it. Honestly, I didn't expect to like the game at all with that combo.
Different people like different things, of course. I'm a P&P player, and while I think Temple of Elemental Evil (turn-based) is great, I have a hard time getting into Neverwinter Nights (turn-based), yet I like DDO for the most part (real-time).
The game does open up somewhat with the various house quests. Threnal has an outdoor area to run through and fight giants to get to the quest areas, Sorrowdusk is an outdoor island area, Tangleroot is a decent-sized forest that has some surprises if you explore it. The open areas are nowhere near the size of WoW, but I wonder if that's necessarily a bad thing. The DDO developers could have put some extra miles of forest and roads and random monsters in-between quest areas to make the world seem bigger, but then that would just mean running for an extra five or ten minutes and killing a few things along the way. In WoW, going from interesting place to interesting place can be a pain without a cab ride or at least a mount.
Also, with D&D mechanics of no regeneration, I don't know if having to run through a huge world to get to the real quest would work very well. A quest such as Xorian Cipher requires you to go through a jungle area and fight your way past a bunch of tough monsters to reach the start of the real quest, and that was an incredible pain even for max-level characters before they put a rest shrine at the quest entrance to heal up and get spells back. Before adding the shrine, people would finally reach the quest entrance but already be half-dead.
Anyway, yeah, I think anyone who doesn't get into groups is missing out on what DDO, and D&D in general, is all about. My main problem with the game also goes into the mislabeling of it, but for a different reason. Since I'm familiar with the P&P rules, the more they break those rules the less the game is Dungeons and Dragons to me. And the more they break the rules and use band-aid fixes, the more imbalance I see and the less interested I am to play.
Heh, I wrote all that but I mainly just wanted to comment on something Shae said about character individuality. True, the game lacks clothing and other "looks" customization, but it does hold pretty close to pen-and-paper 3.5 character customization. In D&D, you can choose whatever feats and skills and strength/intelligence/etc you want, regardless of what class or race you are. Certain classes and races are better at some things than others, but you can still try your best at something if you want to.
3.5 rules turned D&D on its ear by doing this. If you want to be a wizard with max strength but low intelligence who runs around in platemail armor and uses a big shield and a sword, you can. You won't be very good at it, but you can do it. If you want to be a fighter who wears robes and uses magic wands, you can. D&D (and thus DDO) allows for an incredible variety of builds. You can make a rogue who is pretty much only good at finding traps, or you can make a rogue who is only good at killing things, or you can make a rogue somewhere in-between. You can make a half barbarian, half sorcerer warforged if you want, not that it would work all that well.
Character customization is actually what a lot of forum arguments are about because people used to other games tend to think a certain race or class can only be good at one role. Clerics particularly. Clerics are the main healing class, but they can also easily be specced to be serious badasses in melee, and their offensive spellcasting isn't bad either, and that kind of build variety has caused many a player to retire his cleric because of the abuse other players give if he's not simply standing in back being a healbot for the fighters like in other games.
My server had public "cleric strikes" for a bit where clerics would all group together because they were tired of grouping with people who wanted to pigeon-hole them into one role all the time. Was pretty funny.
Yea, I was thinking more of the stand alone's, hence the meaningless multiplayer experience tie-in deal that I did there, see how clever I can be
.
But anyways, I don't think I'm as dissapointed with the mmo market as you are El. I look at the current market and although I'd certainly like to see more quality out there, I remind myself that now, more then ever, the mmo genre has more options then ever and bright future. Or maybe I'm just overly optimisitc
. Either way, don't aruge with me 
.
As for the female pop in DDO, it was weird, I only met one other girl in a group, very nice though and really into PnP stuff, which I've never been so it was a good learning experience for me that way.
It wasn't so much that the female population was low and that guy's were shocked, it was just the general crude behavior. I mean, at this point I'm pretty hard to faze when it comes to what guys say to you online, I've played in WoW raids on a mic for gods sake. But honestly, some of the DDO guys were just brutal. I don't know, maybe I just got unlucky this time around.
Just because they didnt get down on their knee's and glorify you because your female...were you hoping for free gold or doing semi-naked dances for them to get items...guys are brutal naturally and in these days of equality i think you should learn to deal with it...just because your a girl doesnt mean they have to change how they act or talk...if your too sensitive maybe you should go back and play with barbies fun doll house...this is a reaction to a previous flame on me by you
errr... I don't know why I am posting this but I love DDO.
In fact I do know why. I was is a pick up group a few days ago and I was the youngest but one player. FFS I am 40.
I don't care whether all the cool PvP dudes like the game (actually I am glad they don't) but this game gives players more opportunity to stick together than any other.
I've played WoW with a group of friends but some soon outstriped others owing to gaming time. One thing semi-mature (I can't call MMO players mature however hard I try) ppl do not want to do is play with teenagers on their holidays, so either I had to play late at night or give up all together. I also played EvE for 3 years (and yes I will be going back this winter) but there grouping is harder and much more time intensive (three hour sessions moving from 0.0 gate to 0.0 gate while killing Kestrels can get a bit dull).
So, for an older casual gamer with limited time in the evening this game works well. Just don't expect to meet anyone on a weekday morning.
The sad thing is, with DDO having an older playerbase, it's been one of the worst communities I've played with. Maybe it's because everyone is pretty much forced to hear everyone else over voice chat. They whine, they complain, and they throw tantrums over voice more so much, that I've been known to get migraines while playing. :P