Originally posted by ShadowLords Originally posted by tillamook Also I wanna add that I think WarHammer Online will be the only game to compete with WoW. They may even take 1/4 of WoW's player base into the game within a year. Some of the Hardcore players are really getting excited about it. WarHammer is the real WoW for those of you who didn't know. The concept started there.
I know people that play Wow and I know people that "played" WoW and left out of bordom after a couple of years. They also complained about the "kiddie" problem.
I believe that as time goes on the "kids" of yester year are the "adults" today ... and the "kids" of today will be the adults of tomorrow. All this means is that there will be a growing "adult" population that isn't going to want to play the WoW or EQ games .... they will want more of a challenge.
An MMO company that can attract the upcoming "adult" playerbase will be the MMO company that will replace WoW.
But if my MMO company only had 350K - 400K accounts ... i would NOT turn my nose up at that kind of money. LOL
We allready have a adult population of gamers. Remember, home computers appeared over 20 years ago.
Remember UO came out 10(?) years ago.
Problem is, no one are offering anything to those gamers, and no one are planning to, despite that the adult population is huge allready and keeps on growing.
Originally posted by KzinKiller I think it's easy to be discouraged by the MMO market as it stands today, especially after the disaster of SWG and the cookie-cutter MMO's that have come out recently.
But I think in the long-term, the model that will prevail is similar to the film industry. It takes millions of dollars and years of work to make a movie, and the bigger the movie, the more expensive it is to make. So "big hits" have gotten fairly formulaic and unoriginal.
But every once in a while, that successful producer and director get to make one 'their way', or an independent film-maker comes out of nowhere to produce an original and very financially successful gem.
Yeah, right now it seems like every MMO is being made by the gaming equivalent of Michael Bay when it comes to originality .... but eventually there are going to be some Kevin Smiths and Jim Jarmuschs too. There's thousands of men & women in the game industry now and more every year who are saying 'this is crap, we can do better'. Somebody will.
Reminds me a little of the original Rocky, that was just a small mans Idea that ended up being one of the best films ever made. It went against the grain of the films coming out at that time aswell but captured peoples hearts with its story, so it proves some out of the box thinking can be successful provided you have the guts and ability to see your ideas take shape.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
Don't do WHAT they did. Do it HOW they did. See the subtle difference?
1. Have an attractive IP or concept 2. Develop it RIGHT.. no bugs. 3. Communicate with the players 4. Make sure the game is more fun than grind. 5. Have goals for casual and hardcore gamers alike. 6. CONTENT CONTENT CONTENT
Doesn't matter if it is elves, or Borg, or Wookiees, or mutants. Get the GAME right and make it SOLID.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by Shayde The way to compete with WoW....
Don't do WHAT they did. Do it HOW they did. See the subtle difference?
1. Have an attractive IP or concept 2. Develop it RIGHT.. no bugs. 3. Communicate with the players 4. Make sure the game is more fun than grind. 5. Have goals for casual and hardcore gamers alike. 6. CONTENT CONTENT CONTENT
Doesn't matter if it is elves, or Borg, or Wookiees, or mutants. Get the GAME right and make it SOLID.
Yep. Pre-CU was the right game, of course, for Star Wars (or Star Trek or any other hardcore sci-fi base).
Why it didn't live up to expectations is they took a great design and concept, executed it poorly by violating ALL those rules, and then releasing it with almost no content and missing several core systems.
Ever since, their way out has been to attack the design as the problem, instead of blaming their own incompetent execution.
Which has led to two design revisions that were also poorly and incompetently executed, but worse, the design got poorer each time.
This is what happens when you have a case of pathetic mis-management and rather than solving the real problem (by firing the managers) you give them years to continue to try to mis-manage their way out of it.
Originally posted by Wildcat84 Originally posted by Shayde The way to compete with WoW....
Don't do WHAT they did. Do it HOW they did. See the subtle difference?
1. Have an attractive IP or concept 2. Develop it RIGHT.. no bugs. 3. Communicate with the players 4. Make sure the game is more fun than grind. 5. Have goals for casual and hardcore gamers alike. 6. CONTENT CONTENT CONTENT
Doesn't matter if it is elves, or Borg, or Wookiees, or mutants. Get the GAME right and make it SOLID.
Yep. Pre-CU was the right game, of course, for Star Wars (or Star Trek or any other hardcore sci-fi base).
Why it didn't live up to expectations is they took a great design and concept, executed it poorly by violating ALL those rules, and then releasing it with almost no content and missing several core systems.
Ever since, their way out has been to attack the design as the problem, instead of blaming their own incompetent execution.
Which has led to two design revisions that were also poorly and incompetently executed, but worse, the design got poorer each time.
This is what happens when you have a case of pathetic mis-management and rather than solving the real problem (by firing the managers) you give them years to continue to try to mis-manage their way out of it.
If only a company with vision and skill would pick up on the design and development of the original game. Just imagine......
Hauken Stormchaser I want pre-CU back Station.com : We got your game Yeah?, Well i want it back!!!
Originally posted by KzinKiller To use an example of a recent film, look at The Passion of the Christ. Third highest gross of 2004, a whopping 370 million bucks. But a year before it released, nobody was sure if it would even get a distributor. I mean, nobody famous is in it ... it's not even in English! Every major studio said "Mel, you are crazy ... this thing will tank bigtime." By the 'formula for success' in Hollywood, it didn't stand a chance.
Now, sure, it does appear that Mel actually IS crazy, but it didn't tank, did it? Made more money than Harry Potter.
Gaming has some huge advantages over film for an "indy" to be a success, too. Word of mouth can make or break a game -- it broke SWG and made WoW. Websites review new games practically every day. Retail distributors no longer control distribution, because the whole game can be DL'd over a broadband connection, so it doesn't matter if Best Buy likes your product, if the online reviewers love it and gamers love it, you can go from 1,000 to 1,000,000 subscribers in a month.
The big problem for indie game design (in comparison to indie filmmaking) is that indie films can be made on a micro-budget if the director is creative and doesn't need special effects or known actors, but game developers don't have the same option. This link is a good article on the subject:
The basic problem being, that under the current economic model for games, the minimum costs of making a game are high enough that a game targeted at a niche market is going to be lucky to break even. Bear in mind too, that MMORPGs have an even higher overhead than most games, because of the server hardware and the bandwidth. Skimping on that is going to cause problems that's liable to more than cancel out any positive buzz coming from innovate game design. For example: Roma Victor; bad graphics and horrible lag for some time after release, even with a limited launch of only 5,000 players.
Personally, I see advancements coming incrementally because of the huge overheads in making MMORPGs. One game will try one or two new things on the basic formula, and if they works, they'll be absorbed into the MMO mainstream. I hope someone makes an indie hit that breaks the mould, but I think that gradual evolution is more likely.
Dasharr Eandall, SWG, Smuggler/Pistoleer (retired after 2.5+ years)
Originally posted by tillamook WoW is a threat to some developers, so what does that mean for us? Half assed games with little effort because for them it's not financially viable to "dream a big dream"
What's this have to do with SWG? Plenty, Raph dreamed a big dream but it was chopped away by LEC and SOE out the gate and look what happened, it continues to this day. Little of his vision remains and little of the community that loved it remains. Hopefully a company will come along that will "Dream a big Dream" and set the MMO world on fire again all while paying little mind to the "WoW threat". We are sick of developers focusing on small nonexistent markets because they are afraid to push the limits in fear of trying to compete with WoW. When will they learn that by avoiding making a flop, they are creating the flop they are trying to avoid? Time to make a game for "Real" MMORPG players again. Who will answer the call?
?
ok in one of those's links ... it said who can beat world of warcraft? if its done right and made very good... i turely believe Star Trek online could beat world of warcraft.... if it is done very carefuly. and made just right.. it can do it.. with all those's trekie fans!
Nasedoo: You said traders would get a revamp under my supervision.
Darth Lord Blixtev: I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.
Comments
I know people that play Wow and I know people that "played" WoW and left out of bordom after a couple of years. They also complained about the "kiddie" problem.
I believe that as time goes on the "kids" of yester year are the "adults" today ... and the "kids" of today will be the adults of tomorrow. All this means is that there will be a growing "adult" population that isn't going to want to play the WoW or EQ games .... they will want more of a challenge.
An MMO company that can attract the upcoming "adult" playerbase will be the MMO company that will replace WoW.
But if my MMO company only had 350K - 400K accounts ... i would NOT turn my nose up at that kind of money. LOL
We allready have a adult population of gamers. Remember, home computers appeared over 20 years ago.
Remember UO came out 10(?) years ago.
Problem is, no one are offering anything to those gamers, and no one are planning to, despite that the adult population is huge allready and keeps on growing.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
Don't do WHAT they did. Do it HOW they did. See the subtle difference?
1. Have an attractive IP or concept
2. Develop it RIGHT.. no bugs.
3. Communicate with the players
4. Make sure the game is more fun than grind.
5. Have goals for casual and hardcore gamers alike.
6. CONTENT CONTENT CONTENT
Doesn't matter if it is elves, or Borg, or Wookiees, or mutants. Get the GAME right and make it SOLID.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Why it didn't live up to expectations is they took a great design and concept, executed it poorly by violating ALL those rules, and then releasing it with almost no content and missing several core systems.
Ever since, their way out has been to attack the design as the problem, instead of blaming their own incompetent execution.
Which has led to two design revisions that were also poorly and incompetently executed, but worse, the design got poorer each time.
This is what happens when you have a case of pathetic mis-management and rather than solving the real problem (by firing the managers) you give them years to continue to try to mis-manage their way out of it.
Why it didn't live up to expectations is they took a great design and concept, executed it poorly by violating ALL those rules, and then releasing it with almost no content and missing several core systems.
Ever since, their way out has been to attack the design as the problem, instead of blaming their own incompetent execution.
Which has led to two design revisions that were also poorly and incompetently executed, but worse, the design got poorer each time.
This is what happens when you have a case of pathetic mis-management and rather than solving the real problem (by firing the managers) you give them years to continue to try to mis-manage their way out of it.
If only a company with vision and skill would pick up on the design and development of the original game.
Just imagine......
Hauken Stormchaser
I want pre-CU back
Station.com : We got your game
Yeah?, Well i want it back!!!
Raph Koster talking about dinosaurs.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/8/3
The basic problem being, that under the current economic model for games, the minimum costs of making a game are high enough that a game targeted at a niche market is going to be lucky to break even. Bear in mind too, that MMORPGs have an even higher overhead than most games, because of the server hardware and the bandwidth. Skimping on that is going to cause problems that's liable to more than cancel out any positive buzz coming from innovate game design. For example: Roma Victor; bad graphics and horrible lag for some time after release, even with a limited launch of only 5,000 players.
Personally, I see advancements coming incrementally because of the huge overheads in making MMORPGs. One game will try one or two new things on the basic formula, and if they works, they'll be absorbed into the MMO mainstream. I hope someone makes an indie hit that breaks the mould, but I think that gradual evolution is more likely.
Dasharr Eandall, SWG, Smuggler/Pistoleer (retired after 2.5+ years)
shayde would you please keep your political crap out of the forums ?
brgds Nicolai
Better yet, WTF hell is this noob talkin about? I saw nothing in this thread that was political from shayde. WTF?
great now im a noob...that baers alot of relevance.
My complaint is about the guy with a presidential comercial add on his signature.
Is it very hard to see why i oppose this ? i was expecting plenty of support.
This is a gaming forum, not some stupid US add space.
US elections are a joke as it is, no need to bringn it into a gaming forum where people go to talk abot swg.
brgds Nicolai, Denmark
Nasedoo: You said traders would get a revamp under my supervision.
Darth Lord Blixtev: I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.