Im glad they are admitting what most of us knew last november, however they still dont get it. They seem to argue they have a better game today than before, just that it was presented in a wrong way to the playerbase. The same arguement both Smedley and other SOE people have made before.
No, the way it was introduced to an existing playerbase, is not the main problem with NGE. It is a poor imitation of other games.
I have tried a lot of different mmo:s and what pre cu swg had was something different. If they would have listened to the playerbase, focus on correcting bugs and the original CU ideas my guess is that they would now have a loyal 300-500 k playerbase. And the kind of mature stable playerbase that would not jump around from game to game.
Regarding mmo:s in a few years time, and what to look forward to, i think the best chance is the rumors posted by mmorpg members about bioware. As right now i have slim hope in the ducks noble effort.
Originally posted by Seloth I tend to lurk alot here still. Like many I miss the old game, could never play the trainwreck for many reasons, especially the play mechanics and my hands. What I find Almost Insane is this paragraph. "But you know, part of my reason for presenting this and talking about it is I want to educate - I want people to learn what we've learned in that process. We took a big risk, and we learned. There was some really positive stuff, and the game now is as solid as it's ever been, our people have done a great job – we got the bug count down to about half of what it's been in the past six months. But what I would have done differently was be more sensitive to the target audience. The audience you launch with is the one you've got."
I found that paragraph to be crazy, too. I especially lol'ed @ the red part. Yes, the game's as solid as its ever been, thats why you're standing up there telling people not to do what you did.
Oh and im tickled that Fiala used a titanic analogy as well, he must read these boards. Allthough I have no idea what he means lol. Just more "we screwed up really really bad but lets focus on broad, general "good" things instead. Like less bugs ( LOL ).
"Think of the Titanic. Doesn't matter what processes were driving that ship through the water. If nobody's keeping track of getting you to your destination, you're going down, and it doesn't really matter." O.o huh?
Originally posted by Wildcat84 Originally posted by iskareot Originally posted by xxthecorexx Originally posted by iskareot Not that this is any news to use or a suprise, BUT IT IS GOOD TO SEE THE REAL SOE PEOPLE SAY THIS SO THAT THE NGE FANBOIS CAN NOW READ THIS FROM THIER LEADERS! Maybe, JUST maybe the sheep will now see this and wonder things. Thank you for posting this... PLEASE TRY TO POST IT ON THE SOE BOARDS... I love to see the fanbois mad because this was a mistake and now get to hear it from the people themselves.
linkage for wepps and coldreboot.. my god.. they'd deny the whole thing
Make them eat this..
Man, I waited 9 months to see this at this level. I wanted Smedley to be the one to do this but oh well, I will take what I can get.
Can't wait to see the replies from the Devs on this one.
Now how on Earth can you get out of this? I mean what is there to say even?
I think this is the first step towards them doing classic servers. It's their only way out.
And the article backs up what I and others have been saying about the sub base, down by half...
The dev was speaking in terms of number of bugs, not number of players.
The author of the article itself made the assumption (incorrect, in my honest opinion - population is lower than half of what it was preNGE) of the population count / decline.
Im glad they are admitting what most of us knew last november, however they still dont get it. They seem to argue they have a better game today than before, just that it was presented in a wrong way to the playerbase. The same arguement both Smedley and other SOE people have made before.
No, the way it was introduced to an existing playerbase, is not the main problem with NGE. It is a poor imitation of other games.
I have tried a lot of different mmo:s and what pre cu swg had was something different. If they would have listened to the playerbase, focus on correcting bugs and the original CU ideas my guess is that they would now have a loyal 300-500 k playerbase. And the kind of mature stable playerbase that would not jump around from game to game.
Regarding mmo:s in a few years time, and what to look forward to, i think the best chance is the rumors posted by mmorpg members about bioware. As right now i have slim hope in the ducks noble effort.
This is just undamnbelievable. How can they say "Well we screwed our community, but oh well, we will try not to do it again" I'll not buy or playDC Online if SOE has anything to do with it. Im not sure if they offered a Classic server I would trust them.
ok... Pre-cu is not comeing back.... CU is not comeing back..... what they most likely do is release a hole new combat revamp... new combat system ..... revamp the hole game....
lets just hope we like it and has some of the stuff Pre-cu has..... like 32 professions.. and jedi is now very hard to give.. with FRS... and jedi is now number 1 profession!...
Nasedoo: You said traders would get a revamp under my supervision.
Darth Lord Blixtev: I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.
What a bunch of crap! People who develop software professionally already know all this shit -- and it was all known even before SOE decided to fuck things up. It's not like they are conveying some new paradigm to anybody. You have to be a bunch of bloody morons (or nothing but interns and fresh college grads) to have screwed up this badly with a live product. IT'S CALLED SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, DIPSHITS!!
Here's a cucumber, SOE, for figuring out what the whole world already knew. I trust you will store it in a warm, safe place.
Those changes, rolled out shortly after the previous year's AGC, resulted in several departures of development employees, and a significant portion of the customer population – by some estimates cutting it in half.
In other words, some employees told them the truth about the NGE and were told to get the Hell out. And how is losing half of your already "too small" population a step in the right direction, as they say the NGE is?
"But you know, part of my reason for presenting this and talking about it is I want to educate - I want people to learn what we've learned in that process. We took a big risk, and we learned. There was some really positive stuff, and the game now is as solid as it's ever been, our people have done a great job – we got the bug count down to about half of what it's been in the past six months. But what I would have done differently was be more sensitive to the target audience. The audience you launch with is the one you've got."
LOL are they serious? The game is as solid as it's ever been??? Do they even log into the game? All I see on the SWG forums is people complaining about bugs that are months old. Even one of the "senators" has a thread about bugs that annoy you. It's a HUGE list.
Process, while important, needs to come after establishing a focus on the product, Fiala said. "Think of the Titanic. Doesn't matter what processes were driving that ship through the water. If nobody's keeping track of getting you to your destination, you're going down, and it doesn't really matter."
Here's another fitting Titanic analogy. Say the passengers paid to go to New York, and halfway there, the Titanic staff decared they were being taken to Iceland instead. That's basically what $OE did. Promised us one journey, then one day told us we were taking a different one we never signed up for.
This article is a steaming pile of BS. They claim to realize what they did wrong and learned from it. Then they follow all that with obvious lies tryng to defend the NGE and all the jerkoff moves they have made since it's addition.
They haven't learned a damn thing. SWG is dead...and they think it's "better off" now. Unbelievable.
Originally posted by Sailex Originally posted by Shayde
I e-mailed Smed the link.
asked "So now will you throw us a bone and give us a classic server or two?"
I emailed him the link also. Id love to hear from the Smed himself. Know what's gonna happen since you did that? The people quoted in the Article are gonna get fired.
Smed is a bastard...
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
Originally posted by PyscoJuggalo Originally posted by Sailex Originally posted by ShaydeI e-mailed Smed the link. asked "So now will you throw us a bone and give us a classic server or two?"
I emailed him the link also. Id love to hear from the Smed himself. Know what's gonna happen since you did that? The people quoted in the Article are gonna get fired.
And that's a bad thing??? They should be fired! Everyone that can defend the NGE over 10 months later and with it in the sad state it's in SHOULD be fired for being out of touch with reality. They don't belong in the gaming industry. They are either morons, clueless, or just two faced a$$holes. Or all 3.
Originally posted by Darklighter1 Originally posted by PyscoJuggalo Originally posted by Sailex Originally posted by ShaydeI e-mailed Smed the link. asked "So now will you throw us a bone and give us a classic server or two?"
I emailed him the link also. Id love to hear from the Smed himself.
Know what's gonna happen since you did that? The people quoted in the Article are gonna get fired.
And that's a bad thing??? They should be fired! Everyone that can defend the NGE over 10 months later and with it in the sad state it's in SHOULD be fired for being out of touch with reality. They don't belong in the gaming industry. They are either morons, clueless, or just two faced a$$holes. Or all 3.
Well the point is, he is firing them for admitting a mistake.
Sure I believe the toliet needs to be flushed too. But the big turd, Smed, needs to go down with the ship also.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
so they admit NGE was a mistake, abondoning the audience they had, to try to get a different audience by chaning the game. i don't know about you but i was raised that if i made a mistake i would fix it and an apology isn't good enough for the cu/precu community, Sony you need to give everyone that played this game their game back, we deserve it. we have foot all your bills for over two years give your starting audience what they want and you'll get some of your reputation if not more than you deserve back.
I don't they're saying exactly what some of you think they're saying. To me, it seems like they're admitting that the way they introduced the NGE was wrong - which isn't something new, they've been saying since March now. Going by the article, they still would have done the NGE, they just wouldn't have gone about it the same way as they did. They do say they think the current version is the best they've had.
From what I interpreted, he was admitting that they should have listened to the existing playerbase (which was pre-cu) which in turn would have likely stopped any development of the NGE, or even the CU, in it's tracks. While he is trying to put the best face on the situation by claiming that the NGE is a solid game, this assertion falls flat in the face of the acceptance of fault in making the changes in the first place.
Originally posted by Obraik I don't they're saying exactly what some of you think they're saying. To me, it seems like they're admitting that the way they introduced the NGE was wrong - which isn't something new, they've been saying since March now. Going by the article, they still would have done the NGE, they just wouldn't have gone about it the same way as they did. They do say they think the current version is the best they've had.
Sorry Obi, but that's not what they're saying at all...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by pirrg i hope you realize that the only reason they are being so open about this is because the subscription count is on a rise.
I hope you realize you're full of it... Man, you'll lie about anything, anytime... just wow...
Originally posted by Obraik I don't they're saying exactly what some of you think they're saying. To me, it seems like they're admitting that the way they introduced the NGE was wrong - which isn't something new, they've been saying since March now. Going by the article, they still would have done the NGE, they just wouldn't have gone about it the same way as they did. They do say they think the current version is the best they've had.
While you are correct in the beginning of what you had to say, your final sentence is wrong. They said "the game is as solid as it's ever been" and that they got the bug count down to about half of what it was within the past 6 months. Whether that just be nge bugs, or the bugs in the underlying mechanics of the game that were there since launch who knows?
Don;t forget that every single time they touched the game since launch they introduced far more bugs than were ever fixed. You would think that by cutting out what 1/4th of hte professions that would have at least cut the number of bugs down by half for pete's sake.
Also I dont think they would have gone ahead with the NGE. Taking in players concerns and addressing them does not include categorically ignoring them as they did with the nge. Things like the CH additions etc did nothing but mislead the playerbase into believing the game was going in one direction only to have the rug pulled out from under them. CL70 training necklace anyone? They also said that the obiwan expansion could not work with cu or pre-cu. I guess you werent in the beta test for it then were you? I was. And it did work despite the lies they try to feed the gullible.
Originally posted by Obraik I don't they're saying exactly what some of you think they're saying. To me, it seems like they're admitting that the way they introduced the NGE was wrong - which isn't something new, they've been saying since March now. Going by the article, they still would have done the NGE, they just wouldn't have gone about it the same way as they did. They do say they think the current version is the best they've had.
The major point of the entire article was "don't make drastic changes to a game that is already live and was designed for one type for game player, to chase after the money of a completely diffrent target audience. This goes back to Koster's quote "dance with the girl who brung ya".
So what happened with NGE? Blakely said the changes were "a big risk" that represented a push for a new market of customers, but that it "did not intersect fully with the market that we had." Fiala said there was "perceived to be a timing opportunity" related to "product placement and product marketing" of Star Wars Galaxies, and reiterated the importance of listening to "the market you have" when making decisions about a game already in production.
And this is the basic cause for all the infighting. PvP v. PvE Decay, Wouds, BF, "Forced" interdependency, Crafter v Loot FPS v "Turn Based" etc etc etc.
Bottom line, and this being proven in game as we speak, both playstyles can't exsist in the same game. All they have done is marginalize and water the game down in attempt to appease both playstyle, until no one is satisfied.
Originally posted by Obraik I don't they're saying exactly what some of you think they're saying. To me, it seems like they're admitting that the way they introduced the NGE was wrong - which isn't something new, they've been saying since March now. Going by the article, they still would have done the NGE, they just wouldn't have gone about it the same way as they did. They do say they think the current version is the best they've had.
It's all PR speak by SOE. It means whatever the reader wants it to mean. As always, they will claim victory despite the facts because the truth is inconvenient and subject to interpretation, that's what they want you to think anyway.
To quote a part of the article "....resulted in several departures of development employees, and a significant portion of the customer population – by some estimates cutting it in half." hardly screams "it's great and we love it so does everyone else". SOE can spin it however they like, it's still a failure because of the NGE.
I just don't get it!!! Why wouldn't they put 1 or 2 clasic servers up, They could still develop the ngecrap, and get some of the respect back from the vets By admitting the mistake...
It explains why Mc_Helios_SOE isn't posting anymore, but really pays little attention to how to fix the problem. They admitt the mistake, but then talk about the virtues of it? BS. They need to roll back if they are serious.
Comments
My opinion:
Im glad they are admitting what most of us knew last november, however they still dont get it. They seem to argue they have a better game today than before, just that it was presented in a wrong way to the playerbase. The same arguement both Smedley and other SOE people have made before.
No, the way it was introduced to an existing playerbase, is not the main problem with NGE. It is a poor imitation of other games.
I have tried a lot of different mmo:s and what pre cu swg had was something different. If they would have listened to the playerbase, focus on correcting bugs and the original CU ideas my guess is that they would now have a loyal 300-500 k playerbase. And the kind of mature stable playerbase that would not jump around from game to game.
Regarding mmo:s in a few years time, and what to look forward to, i think the best chance is the rumors posted by mmorpg members about bioware. As right now i have slim hope in the ducks noble effort.
Oh and im tickled that Fiala used a titanic analogy as well, he must read these boards. Allthough I have no idea what he means lol. Just more "we screwed up really really bad but lets focus on broad, general "good" things instead. Like less bugs ( LOL ).
"Think of the Titanic. Doesn't matter what processes were
driving that ship through the water. If nobody's keeping track of
getting you to your destination, you're going down, and it doesn't
really matter." O.o huh?
For the Horde!
Make them eat this..
Man, I waited 9 months to see this at this level. I wanted Smedley to be the one to do this but oh well, I will take what I can get.
Can't wait to see the replies from the Devs on this one.
Now how on Earth can you get out of this? I mean what is there to say even?
I think this is the first step towards them doing classic servers. It's their only way out.
And the article backs up what I and others have been saying about the sub base, down by half...
The dev was speaking in terms of number of bugs, not number of players.
The author of the article itself made the assumption (incorrect, in my honest opinion - population is lower than half of what it was preNGE) of the population count / decline.
This is just undamnbelievable. How can they say "Well we screwed our community, but oh well, we will try not to do it again" I'll not buy or playDC Online if SOE has anything to do with it. Im not sure if they offered a Classic server I would trust them.
Dakk
ok... Pre-cu is not comeing back.... CU is not comeing back..... what they most likely do is release a hole new combat revamp... new combat system ..... revamp the hole game....
lets just hope we like it and has some of the stuff Pre-cu has..... like 32 professions.. and jedi is now very hard to give.. with FRS... and jedi is now number 1 profession!...
Nasedoo: You said traders would get a revamp under my supervision.
Darth Lord Blixtev: I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.
already know all this shit -- and it was all known even before SOE
decided to fuck things up. It's not like they are conveying some new
paradigm to anybody. You have to be a bunch of bloody morons (or
nothing but interns and fresh college grads) to have screwed up this
badly with a live product. IT'S CALLED SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, DIPSHITS!!
Here's a cucumber, SOE, for figuring out what the whole world already knew. I trust you will store it in a warm, safe place.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Those changes, rolled out shortly after the previous year's AGC, resulted in several departures of development employees, and a significant portion of the customer population – by some estimates cutting it in half.
In other words, some employees told them the truth about the NGE and were told to get the Hell out. And how is losing half of your already "too small" population a step in the right direction, as they say the NGE is?
"But you know, part of my reason for presenting this and talking about it is I want to educate - I want people to learn what we've learned in that process. We took a big risk, and we learned. There was some really positive stuff, and the game now is as solid as it's ever been, our people have done a great job – we got the bug count down to about half of what it's been in the past six months. But what I would have done differently was be more sensitive to the target audience. The audience you launch with is the one you've got."
LOL are they serious? The game is as solid as it's ever been??? Do they even log into the game? All I see on the SWG forums is people complaining about bugs that are months old. Even one of the "senators" has a thread about bugs that annoy you. It's a HUGE list.
Process, while important, needs to come after establishing a focus on the product, Fiala said. "Think of the Titanic. Doesn't matter what processes were driving that ship through the water. If nobody's keeping track of getting you to your destination, you're going down, and it doesn't really matter."
Here's another fitting Titanic analogy. Say the passengers paid to go to New York, and halfway there, the Titanic staff decared they were being taken to Iceland instead. That's basically what $OE did. Promised us one journey, then one day told us we were taking a different one we never signed up for.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This article is a steaming pile of BS. They claim to realize what they did wrong and learned from it. Then they follow all that with obvious lies tryng to defend the NGE and all the jerkoff moves they have made since it's addition.
They haven't learned a damn thing. SWG is dead...and they think it's "better off" now. Unbelievable.
Know what's gonna happen since you did that? The people quoted in the Article are gonna get fired.
Smed is a bastard...
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
Know what's gonna happen since you did that? The people quoted in the Article are gonna get fired.
And that's a bad thing??? They should be fired! Everyone that can defend the NGE over 10 months later and with it in the sad state it's in SHOULD be fired for being out of touch with reality. They don't belong in the gaming industry. They are either morons, clueless, or just two faced a$$holes. Or all 3.
Know what's gonna happen since you did that? The people quoted in the Article are gonna get fired.
And that's a bad thing??? They should be fired! Everyone that can defend the NGE over 10 months later and with it in the sad state it's in SHOULD be fired for being out of touch with reality. They don't belong in the gaming industry. They are either morons, clueless, or just two faced a$$holes. Or all 3.
Well the point is, he is firing them for admitting a mistake.
Sure I believe the toliet needs to be flushed too. But the big turd, Smed, needs to go down with the ship also.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
so they admit NGE was a mistake, abondoning the audience they had, to try to get a different audience by chaning the game. i don't know about you but i was raised that if i made a mistake i would fix it and an apology isn't good enough for the cu/precu community, Sony you need to give everyone that played this game their game back, we deserve it. we have foot all your bills for over two years give your starting audience what they want and you'll get some of your reputation if not more than you deserve back.
Ceasar
Pre-Cu Jedi Extoardinaire
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
From what I interpreted, he was admitting that they should have listened to the existing playerbase (which was pre-cu) which in turn would have likely stopped any development of the NGE, or even the CU, in it's tracks. While he is trying to put the best face on the situation by claiming that the NGE is a solid game, this assertion falls flat in the face of the acceptance of fault in making the changes in the first place.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
QFE!
Don;t forget that every single time they touched the game since launch they introduced far more bugs than were ever fixed. You would think that by cutting out what 1/4th of hte professions that would have at least cut the number of bugs down by half for pete's sake.
Also I dont think they would have gone ahead with the NGE. Taking in players concerns and addressing them does not include categorically ignoring them as they did with the nge. Things like the CH additions etc did nothing but mislead the playerbase into believing the game was going in one direction only to have the rug pulled out from under them. CL70 training necklace anyone? They also said that the obiwan expansion could not work with cu or pre-cu. I guess you werent in the beta test for it then were you? I was. And it did work despite the lies they try to feed the gullible.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
So what happened with NGE? Blakely said the changes were "a big risk"
that represented a push for a new market of customers, but that it "did
not intersect fully with the market that we had." Fiala said there was
"perceived to be a timing opportunity" related to "product placement
and product marketing" of Star Wars Galaxies, and reiterated the importance of listening to "the market you have" when making decisions about a game already in production.
And this is the basic cause for all the infighting. PvP v. PvE Decay, Wouds, BF, "Forced" interdependency, Crafter v Loot FPS v "Turn Based" etc etc etc.
Bottom line, and this being proven in game as we speak, both playstyles can't exsist in the same game. All they have done is marginalize and water the game down in attempt to appease both playstyle, until no one is satisfied.
It's all PR speak by SOE. It means whatever the reader wants it to mean. As always, they will claim victory despite the facts because the truth is inconvenient and subject to interpretation, that's what they want you to think anyway.
To quote a part of the article "....resulted in several departures of development employees, and a significant portion of the customer population – by some estimates cutting it in half." hardly screams "it's great and we love it so does everyone else". SOE can spin it however they like, it's still a failure because of the NGE.
__________________________________________________
Wyeth - Chilastra 8/30/03-6/1/05 Master Artisan, Master Weaponsmith, Master Shipwright (after giving up Weaponsmith), Master Merchant
Zadox - Chilastra 12/1/03-6/3/05 Master Rifleman, Master Scout, Master Ranger.