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Why So Much Criticism Against Vanguard?

2

Comments

  • CopelandCopeland Member Posts: 1,955

    I had a pizza for lunch. Anyone have a mountain dew i can steal?

  • sebbonxsebbonx Member Posts: 318


    Originally posted by Copeland

    I had a pizza for lunch. Anyone have a mountain dew i can steal?


    BUY YOUR OWN MOOCHER!!!

    If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)

  • jordy11jordy11 Member Posts: 16
    SOE.....




  • CopelandCopeland Member Posts: 1,955


    Originally posted by sebbonx

    Originally posted by Copeland
    I had a pizza for lunch. Anyone have a mountain dew i can steal?
    BUY YOUR OWN MOOCHER!!! image

    It never tastes as good if you have to buy it.

  • SpiritofGameSpiritofGame Member UncommonPosts: 1,332


    Originally posted by anarchyart

    We're all just here because we're bored, and the O.P. was just another troll post in this section. Funny thing is, if all the new games out right now didn't suck so bad none of us would be here. Reading threads like this, I wonder if some gamers will ever be happy with any MMO ever again. Find something you like already.



    BTW, saw you in BF2 couple days ago.  We were on the same side so I couldn't kill you.

    Darn it.

    ~ Ancient Membership ~

  • ShiloFieldsShiloFields Member Posts: 252

    I don't post about Vanguard very often, but ultimately, I am very negative about Vanguard because of SOE.  Don't get me wrong, it may turn out to be a wonderful game and honestly, part of me hopes it will do well because the MMO market has gone to casual.  It just sucks that Sigil added a poision pill making it impossible for me to buy it.

    And for the record, it was SOE's actions in SWG that caused me to refuse to do busines with them.  Never played EQ.

  • GorillaGorilla Member UncommonPosts: 2,235


    Originally posted by teaincup

    Originally posted by MX13

    IT'S YOU!!! YOU SPAM THESE FORUMS WITH ATTACKS!!!
    I've NEVER seen such a small amount of poeple, especially you, make such a big stink about a game 6 months from release...
    WE GET IT.... YOU DON'T LIKE IT.... SO WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE???
    Criticize & discuss all you want, but please STOP constantly spamming us with VSoH hate!!! PLEASE!!!!

    Jonaku makes me chuckle :)

    But it's not just him. You must admit, there *is* a lot of hate against this game. To answer Jonaku's question, I think it's because of:

    (a) The SOE co-publishing relationship

    (b) Problems that had in beta 2 that turned a lot of people off (which is why they only had 100 people playing), and

    (c) The hard core game mechanics (XP loss, no GPS in maps, corpse runs, long travel times, long XP curves, little solo content)

    I think that would about cover it, correct?


     
    correct... or to sumarise Brads idea of 'fun'.
  • neffneff Member Posts: 14
    I just have to say thanks to the people who breached the NDA to bitch.  All you people calling them out on it and still trying to support the game have no idea.

    Anyone who may have tried DnL should know that if a game gets this many bad reviews like this it is definently something to worry about.  I was one of the peopled that pre-orded and got into beta.  I also ended up being one of the people breaking the NDA and releasing gameplay videos before the game came out.  The game simply wasn't what it was claiming and i felt like doing the community good and letting them know.

    These reviews have pretty much set me straight and ill come back when open beta happends and see how accurate they were, but i won't be counting on this game at all now.


  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,311


    Originally posted by neff
    I just have to say thanks to the people who breached the NDA to bitch.  All you people calling them out on it and still trying to support the game have no idea.Anyone who may have tried DnL should know that if a game gets this many bad reviews like this it is definently something to worry about.  I was one of the peopled that pre-orded and got into beta.  I also ended up being one of the people breaking the NDA and releasing gameplay videos before the game came out.  The game simply wasn't what it was claiming and i felt like doing the community good and letting them know.These reviews have pretty much set me straight and ill come back when open beta happends and see how accurate they were, but i won't be counting on this game at all now.

    i understand you were burned by false hype in Dnl and don't blame you for now being skeptical, but there is a huge difference between vanguard and Dnl.

    the Dnl team had virtually no experience in making mmo's as well as hardly any real budget to make a game the magnitude of what Dnl was supposed to be.

    sigil has a much larger and experienced development team as well as a much larger budget. does this mean it will be a great mmo? no but i will tell you right now with 100% confidence that vanguard will be nowhere near as bad as Dnl.

    Dnl has to be the most unfinished POS of a mmo to ever be released, and brad has said time and time again that he refuses to put out vanguard until its ready, at least in his mind.

    so i guarantee you that it will not be a broken POS of a game at launch like Dnl was, it may not be the game for you and you may not like that style of combat but it will be alot better than Dnl that is for sure.

  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905


    Originally posted by MX13

    IT'S YOU!!! YOU SPAM THESE FORUMS WITH ATTACKS!!!
    I've NEVER seen such a small amount of poeple, especially you, make such a big stink about a game 6 months from release...
    WE GET IT.... YOU DON'T LIKE IT.... SO WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE???
    Criticize & discuss all you want, but please STOP constantly spamming us with VSoH hate!!! PLEASE!!!!


    LMAO!

    Anyway, I've been watching this game for a long time and only recently I've been compelled to throw my 2 cents in (for assorted reasons)

    What I seen over the last 6 months was a huge backlash over the SOE thing. Thats what really triggered it. Everything was peachy up to that point. This board went out the window when that happened.

    I think many of the posters here have completely exaggerated some the points of the game they find objectionable like the raids. Yes, Vanguard has them, what MMO doesn't? Its one of those MMO staples in todays market, like it or not (personally I don't think large "raids" have a place in the genre, MMOs should be group based)

    This game is built on traditional MMO ideas so raids will be a part of it. No raids are not forced. Its simply one option.

    Some of the posters blow everything out of proportion like the whole "freedom" thing. Its such an illogical critisizim it makes the mind spin. Games, like any other interactive media need a terrain (or ruleset) on which the game is played. Of course there are limitations. No game can do everything.

    But now this board is infested people who make random, strange and not very thought out attacks on a game that not even released with little to no information. From what I can tell, most of the info used to attack is second/third hand rumors that should just be ignore because most of the attacks I have read are....

    WRONG

  • AceyAcey Member Posts: 2
    Flaming of MMORPGs is unfortunatelly a standard issue nowadays. It happens to some extent for every MMORPG. I can understand that happening for already released MMORPGs. But ppl criticising un-released MMORPG are just being ignorant. Beta can give some sort of an idea about the game. But usually the release version of a game is much different even from latest beta. So I ignore all of the critics about game before it's released.

    Some issues that were brought up in this topic about Vanguard are SOE releasing the game and Vanguard being too hardcore. Both issues are totally crap imo. I'm playing SOE's EQ2 and I totally love it. I will definitelly try Vanguard as well. If you don't like SOE (wether you have valid reasons or not) then just skip Vanguard. Nobody is forcing you to play. Although judgining Vanguard before it's even released just because of the name of publisher is just plain stupid imo. The second issue is Vanguard being too hard core. Nobody is able to say that before it's even released. Game can be made a lot easier just by changing some general parameters and that can be done at any time before release. So this argument has no basis yet. Vanguard might be too hard core in the end (which might put me off as well as I lack time for playing MMORPGs). But even so you can't criticise game just because it doesn't suite your playstyle. Again; move to other game and shut up


  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 4,050

    See a lot of MMO beta virgins in this topic.

    When an MMO beta gets to a certain point the developer stops designing stuff and starts just adding stuff and fixing stuff until such a point that they feel it's not broken enough to release to market and make money on it. In case you you haven't noticed the first year or so of an MMO going Live is just you paying to play the least broken version of the beta. MMO developers know this and most MMO vets know this so why don't you?

    Sigil is on it's third beta with Vanguard which means they have had more than enough time to design the game which means that outside of bugs/glitches and stuff that not's implemented most of what you are seeing in the current beta will be the exact same way it will be in release.

    For example- Sigil isn't going to spend valuable development time making battle animations more exciting, they are going to spend that time bug fixing or feature implementing. If you think the battle animations look boring and lack luster now then you will think they will look boring when the game is released because they will be the exact same battle animations.

    Vanguard is at a point in it's beta phase that it can be reviewed. MMOs NEVER recieve miracle updates so late into beta that it goes from boring and broken to "OH MY GOD AWESOME!!!".

    You Vanguard fanboys can hold out hope for a miracle but so far Vanguard is looking like a flop.

  • CylusSigilCylusSigil Member Posts: 65



    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    For example- Sigil isn't going to spend valuable development time making battle animations more exciting, they are going to spend that time bug fixing or feature implementing. If you think the battle animations look boring and lack luster now then you will think they will look boring when the game is released because they will be the exact same battle animations.


    Do you honestly think that any company, including us, would neglect to update the animations following such a poor response from the community?  Sheesh.

  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,311


    Originally posted by CylusSigil

    Originally posted by Xiaoki
    For example- Sigil isn't going to spend valuable development time making battle animations more exciting, they are going to spend that time bug fixing or feature implementing. If you think the battle animations look boring and lack luster now then you will think they will look boring when the game is released because they will be the exact same battle animations.Do you honestly think that any company, including us, would neglect to update the animations following such a poor response from the community?  Sheesh.

    the animations are defiantly the main thing you guys should work on from watching all the videos brad has recently released, IMHO.

    the world and character models look good, its just that some of the animations remind me of old skool eq and should defiantly be upgraded since vanguard is considered a 3rd generation game.

    that is just judging my the videos i have seen, so that is good that you guys are planning on upgrading the animations....hopefully it is a high priority. ::::19::

  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 4,050

    CylusSigil- well, it's good to hear that you will be using valuable development time to make the battle animations more exciting. Now how about the mountain of bugs, glitches and stuff that has yet to be implemented?

    Because, while battle animations may make the game more pleasing to the eye over promising and under delivering on features(especially at launch) can kill an MMO very fast. Just ask SWG and DnL about that.

  • CylusSigilCylusSigil Member Posts: 65


    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    CylusSigil- well, it's good to hear that you will be using valuable development time to make the battle animations more exciting. Now how about the mountain of bugs, glitches and stuff that has yet to be implemented?
    Because, while battle animations may make the game more pleasing to the eye over promising and under delivering on features(especially at launch) can kill an MMO very fast. Just ask SWG and DnL about that.



    1)  You're assuming that we haven't previously scheduled time for the animations.

    2)  You're assuming that we haven't previously planned on upgrading the animations so any upgrade will take a ton of time and effort due to lack of forethought and streamlining.

    3)  You're assuming that the team responsible for the animations is the same team responsible for all of that "mountain."

    Granted, any time invested into anything in the game will take time away from something else but that's just life.  If we manage our time well, there shouldn't be many problems.  If not, we have bigger things to worry about than the animations

    Thanks for the vote of confidence, though

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433


    Originally posted by CylusSigil
    Do you honestly think that any company, including us, would neglect to update the animations following such a poor response from the community?  Sheesh.


    Considering how you answer to the "non-raiding community" needs...(which is 95% of the community)

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • CylusSigilCylusSigil Member Posts: 65


    Originally posted by Anofalye
    Considering how you answer to the "non-raiding community" needs...(which is 95% of the community)



    Don't bother attempting to goad me, Anofayle.  Whether you want to believe it or not, 80% of the content will be grouping and soloing and we're definatley concentrating on the grouping element.

    And yes, I see where you are coming from when you state that raiding rewards should not translate back to group encounters.  Discussing an elegant solution to that situation is something that I'd be more than happy to discuss over lunch or a beer but I refuse to do it in this medium.  Whatever I'd say would automatically reflect on Sigil, for good or ill, regardless of the fact that they'd just be my personal opinions. 

    Also, that's just my personal choice and not some rule set forth by Sigil to avoid misinformation and malcontent; so feel free to keep their conspiracy theories to yourselves

  • havocthefirshavocthefirs Member Posts: 229

    I've read all about this puppy for years now, the only reasons people could hate it so much is because they called a next generation mmorpg or because of sony.

    My opinion is that consenual pvp, guild vs guild, without looting lacks excitement, yea I know blast me for that statement. The fact that I know I'm better than so-and-so is reward enough, blah blah blah, sorry its just not true.

    The funny thing is that UO, the second oldest game has more to do than all other moorpgs combined. There are no quests, no forced grouping, no instances for either groups or dungeons or epic battles. Basically just a world where you can do or be what you want. If you take away the grafix and sound rating it is the highest rated game ever. As far as role playing UO beats them all by leaps and bounds.

    Gaming companies need to learn that a good crafting system, good pvp with looting are essential to a quality game.  Most important dont force us to do quests, quests should not give expierence but instead experience should be gained while doing the quest. Give us a world where theres plenty to do but nothing that HAS to be done. 

  • SacrificiallSacrificiall Member Posts: 118

    The reason is because the psychopath hard core old school EQ original fan base sunk their claws into it, Tried to make it their own, chased anyone out of Beta that would even mention something as simple as a over head map and tried to make it their. Since Beta 3 there has been a mass turn around in the vibe of the game, If anything it looks more like Star Wars Galaxies "World" and Deep Economy (Before the game imploded) and the smooth game play of WoW. I can't wait.

    Now that these "Psycho's" have been chased out or shut up by some of the newer Beta Testers that aren't going bald living in their mothers basements, The developers are getting and responding to some real feed back!

  • jonakujonaku Member Posts: 281


    Originally posted by Sacrificiall

    The reason is because the psychopath hard core old school EQ original fan base sunk their claws into it, Tried to make it their own, chased anyone out of Beta that would even mention something as simple as a over head map and tried to make it their. Since Beta 3 there has been a mass turn around in the vibe of the game, If anything it looks more like Star Wars Galaxies "World" and Deep Economy (Before the game imploded) and the smooth game play of WoW. I can't wait.

    Now that these "Psycho's" have been chased out or shut up by some of the newer Beta Testers that aren't going bald living in their mothers basements, The developers are getting and responding to some real feed back!


    This is good news. I hope this bodes well for the game.
  • SacrificiallSacrificiall Member Posts: 118

    Plus SOE is leaving the development bizz, The realise they suck so they are just going to take the route of Publishing & Hosting"...Problem is so many people hate them so much that the second they see SOE they say NOOOO!!!!!!...

    Look, I hate f'n Walmart, but I like Oreo's....I'm not going to refuse to buy Oreo's because I have to go to Walmart to get them!

  • dragonacedragonace Member UncommonPosts: 1,185


    Originally posted by Sacrificiall

    Plus SOE is leaving the development bizz, The realise they suck so they are just going to take the route of Publishing & Hosting"...Problem is so many people hate them so much that the second they see SOE they say NOOOO!!!!!!...

    Look, I hate f'n Walmart, but I like Oreo's....I'm not going to refuse to buy Oreo's because I have to go to Walmart to get them!


    One of the best quotes ever!  Way to go Sacrificiall.
  • MaxziusMaxzius Member UncommonPosts: 248


    Originally posted by CylusSigil

    Originally posted by Anofalye
    Considering how you answer to the "non-raiding community" needs...(which is 95% of the community)



    Don't bother attempting to goad me, Anofayle.  Whether you want to believe it or not, 80% of the content will be grouping and soloing and we're definatley concentrating on the grouping element.

    And yes, I see where you are coming from when you state that raiding rewards should not translate back to group encounters.  Discussing an elegant solution to that situation is something that I'd be more than happy to discuss over lunch or a beer but I refuse to do it in this medium.  Whatever I'd say would automatically reflect on Sigil, for good or ill, regardless of the fact that they'd just be my personal opinions. 

    Also, that's just my personal choice and not some rule set forth by Sigil to avoid misinformation and malcontent; so feel free to keep their conspiracy theories to yourselves


    So, I'll need to raid in order to get the other 20% of my gear?



    Sorry if this has been answered 5 million times already, getting sick of Mythic and just looking into some other games.  omw to the website now...

    =====================
    -Just My Thoughts-
    Max

    image

    Currently playing: Nothing

  • dragonacedragonace Member UncommonPosts: 1,185


    Originally posted by Maxzius

    Originally posted by CylusSigil

    Originally posted by Anofalye
    Considering how you answer to the "non-raiding community" needs...(which is 95% of the community)



    Don't bother attempting to goad me, Anofayle.  Whether you want to believe it or not, 80% of the content will be grouping and soloing and we're definatley concentrating on the grouping element.

    And yes, I see where you are coming from when you state that raiding rewards should not translate back to group encounters.  Discussing an elegant solution to that situation is something that I'd be more than happy to discuss over lunch or a beer but I refuse to do it in this medium.  Whatever I'd say would automatically reflect on Sigil, for good or ill, regardless of the fact that they'd just be my personal opinions. 

    Also, that's just my personal choice and not some rule set forth by Sigil to avoid misinformation and malcontent; so feel free to keep their conspiracy theories to yourselves


    So, I'll need to raid in order to get the other 20% of my gear?



    Sorry if this has been answered 5 million times already, getting sick of Mythic and just looking into some other games.  omw to the website now...


    Heh!  Yup, 20% of your gear is locked away in the uber-raiding dungeons.  It even has your name on it and everything.  All you have to do is slay all the baddies and it's yours!

    Not really sure what you meant by "20% of my gear".  The quote you referenced said "80% of the content..."  Content is not only "gear".  Depending on what you are trying to accomplish you won't need any "raid gear".

    However, if you are the type that want's to experience EVERY single aspect of the adventure sphere of Vanguard then yes.  About 20% of that content will be in raid-level "dungeons".  Of course if you are wanting to experience EVERY aspect of Vanguard then you also need to be aware that adventuring is just 1/3 of the 3 spheres offered. 

    Crafting and Diplomacy make up the other 2 spheres.  Those 2 spheres will be needed just as much, if not more; than the raiding aspect if you are looking to have access to EVERY "gear". 
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