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why do horde always win bg's
ronan32
Member Posts: 1,418
Does anyone know why horde always win in the bg's...are they a more mature community...do they actually listen and use tactics or do they win simply because of shaman...in the last 40 battlegrounds ive played in ive only won once...i know some alliance player will reply here and say im uber and always win in bg, but i doubt you do...maybe when the expansion comes out and both factions have the same classes we might see more of an even contest in bg's....or maybe im in the battlegrounds with 10 eleven year olds.
Comments
Having played Horde for the past year, I can't tell you exactly why. Yes on average the Horde players are older
than alliance.
When I play my level 60 Horde characters, I seem to loose as much as I do on my
level 29 Alliance character. I do remember winning alot when I was in the lower brackets.
I think it all boils down to the type of players that typically play Alliance vs. those that typically play Horde.
The best Alliance players are as good as the best Horde players, however the average Alliance player is worse than
the average Horde player in BGs. It is also a matter of percentages. If 20% of the players stink at BGs, and you have a 1000 Alliance playing BGs vs. 500 Horde, that means you'll have 200 bad Alliance vs only 100 bad Horde. So on average, you'll loose twice as much on the Alliance side.
But mostly its because paladin players don't know what they are doing. They all try to melee and do that silly AOE. If they healed and cleansed and stuff horde would lose alot.
Paladins are not less effective than Shamans but Shaman is more obvious. Playing a Paladin well in PvP means playing support well. Most people don't do this. But Shaman can be direct and still win. If Paladin play support well alliance may actually be better than horde.
In other words most people want to be direct but if Paladins are played in a direct manner you will suck. If paladins are played in a support manner you will mess people up but very few people actually want to do it.
It is not an inequity of actual power, it is an inequity of propensities (ie. most people don't want to heal/support).
i win some and lose some, pug or grouped.
it is true that horde seems to win more, usually because they have a bit more mature community that learns earlier how to work togather,excellent queue times which translates into more time spent actually pvping and the fact they have a slight advantage in pvp due to racials and more offensive orinetations of hteir classes
my advice to you (since you are basicly asking how to fix the situation so that you win the BGs rather then horde, is to find a few people who will pvp with you and group up, work on your tactics and roles, and you'll start seeing those victories flow
MMORPG addict since 1995.
German Realmpool 1:
Alterac: Allianz > Horde (winning 9 of 10) Reason: Nearly only Horde Twinks with bad equip, most Horde players just want to get exalted
Arathi and WSG: Horde > Allianz (winning 7 of 10) Reason: Good Horde players goning for max Honor
joining as a good group with the right classes > all random groups
That was one of the main frustrations that I experienced. We had some folks who appeared to be decent leaders and they gave some reasonable instructions, but pretty much no one followed orders. In the CTF map the majority of players on the alliance side would run directly out into the center of the map and begin attacking the other side as though they were soloing in PvE. Seriously.
Each and every time.
What made even less sense is that the players would whine and moan about not being invited into the raid channel, or spam to be added to the channel, before the gates opened. It was insane. Once the match began no one would talk, or if they did talk then no one would listen. So wtf is up with wanting so badly to be in the raid channel? lol
Anyway, it was pretty lame.
Secondly, yes, shamans suck. :-/ Especially in CTF. I don't know if this has changed, but at the time they were able to dash off in a ghost-like cat form while holding the flag. Even my rogue with the sprint ability ultimately was not able to keep up. This was the second major reason why the alliance side lost so many CTF matches.
~Mysk
P.S.
CTF = Capture The Flag, but I can't imagine that anyone here doesn't know what that means. :P
Why they win: you let them
Mature?: They are more mature, newbies like to look pretty
They use Ventrilo and often have guild raids in BG, the Alliance is simply dead weight for Horde to kill
More Horde are up to join than Alliance due to moral and general intelligence issues. In AV, more Alliance would rather fish and lose than actually try. This is simply accepted.
My advice to you: stop playing WoW, or reroll Horde. The Alliance is full of newbies, join the Horde.
The above quoted poster is correct.
Paladins not lending support and just hacking away will lose you the game everytime.
However, aside from AB, IMHO all of the BGs are slanted to favour horde. WSG is great for Earthbind, and yes Paladins have BoF, but do they use it enough? AV (I've won and lost on both Horde and Alliance) alliance have to zig zag thru shit to get to the base. Horde need only ride straight over a bridge.
When alliance listens
we win
or we have a great match
nice to still get 1h30min av matches
but most part alliance doesnt listen and tries to solo play the whole battleground
but WSG and AB are what horde excel out.. while alliance is AV only
when u join alliance side as a pug ur joining games against horde teams so hence the losing
on alliance pugs and horde pugs u usually lose..
horde win a little more then alliance but not too much more, suggestion.... get better at pvp and ull win
My son has a character in a level 29 Twink alliance guild..and they win most of the time.
With consistant players and cooperation it can be done.
But otherwise it goes pretty much as mentioned... WSG/AB belong to the horde... AV to the alliance.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As a paladin you simply can't go out there and blast people. Shaman who shock all the time are noobs, but they are noobs who are still doing some pretty ok burst damage. Ret paladins that go try to blast people are just worthless.
I'm not saying never attack, I'm not saying a paladin attacking worthless. As a paladin you have room to go complete support to maybe 50% support/50% attack. If you want to do 50/50 then go retribution its fine for that.
The problem is there are a lot of paladin that go retribution and then go 100% attack. There are also alot of shaman that do this. Both are stupid. But the stupid shaman are more effective than the stupid paladins because they have shocks and chain lightning. Shocks are not overpowered, they are just easy to get quick and large burst damage from. Paladins just can't do that, so when they try the same tactics they fail miserably.
Thus horde tend to have better pick ups. Because the stupid shaman penalize the PUGs less than the stupid pallys due to game mechanics and happenstance. But if both play smart its fairly even.
i think what you are trying to say is shaman/paladin that never heal are newbs? if so i tend to agree but me being a shaman i always use shocks, and i always heal.... a shaman that doesn't always use shocks is a newb IMO.
paladin and shaman can do all the dps they want.... they just need to learn to heal more, if you are a healing class and you refuse to heal you are gimp and helping your team lose.
i see to many feral druids and shadow priests not healing as well. and i can understand having those builds to level up with or solo pvp.
but why roll a healer class and not heal? it makes no sense to me. but yeah.....i do notice that af are alot worse than horde in bg's.
and i don't think it is because of the shaman vs paladin debate. i have been on both sides of the spectrum and af just whine, complain, and bicker among each other.
they don't even try most the time (I'm talking 40-49 bg's) and it is really frustrating. i know AF is alot better at lvl 60 but man....its pretty freaking embracing how bad AF is before that.
A week ago, I was doing some 20-29 WSG, and I was in the leader position first time. Never had happened before, so I just kinda did what I felt was nec. I moved around players into two distinct teams, I had a certain few ALWAYS stay with me on def, and at first, we werent doing so well, was 2/0 horde. Two players left, grumbling and whining about everyone else being noobs, though they were the ones not listening. Two other players joined up, and we managed to turn the game around and win it 3/2.
We went on to follow that by 5 more victories, with me at the helm. I do think alot of it has to do with teamwork, and knowing your roll and place in the battlegrounds, and also having a leader that will inform those who might not know, or think they can get away with stuff on what they should be doing to help the team win. In my experience, it worked fairly well, for others, maybe not.
There are alot of people playing, and sometimes you get a group of morons, and sometimes you get a group of good, hardworking people. Sad reality is Alliance DOES have more of the morons, for whatever reason that is. However, I dont think the alliance in its whole is uncoordinated and malaligned. Ive played horde before to, and instead of morons, I had to deal with people who thought they were better than everyone else, and if you didnt know something, you were treated as a n00b, and laughed at.
Well I kinda went off in a different direction with that last one, though it ties in for those who believe Alliance sucks, horde rules, alliance has dumb players, horde has good players ideal. Like it or not, thats my opinion.
In 10-19 BG, however, the majority of wins are Horde, because they tend to be more twinked characters, by whatever means. So my advice...DONT play 10-19. Waste of time.
i think what you are trying to say is shaman/paladin that never heal are newbs? if so i tend to agree but me being a shaman i always use shocks, and i always heal.... a shaman that doesn't always use shocks is a newb IMO.
paladin and shaman can do all the dps they want.... they just need to learn to heal more, if you are a healing class and you refuse to heal you are gimp and helping your team lose.
i see to many feral druids and shadow priests not healing as well. and i can understand having those builds to level up with or solo pvp.
but why roll a healer class and not heal? it makes no sense to me. but yeah.....i do notice that af are alot worse than horde in bg's.
and i don't think it is because of the shaman vs paladin debate. i have been on both sides of the spectrum and af just whine, complain, and bicker among each other.
they don't even try most the time (I'm talking 40-49 bg's) and it is really frustrating. i know AF is alot better at lvl 60 but man....its pretty freaking embracing how bad AF is before that.
Feral Druids and Shadow Preists can both do a lot of damage. They can be main attackers. Shaman can be main attackers but they need to do it a certain way or they go OOM too quickly. Shocks are useful, but shock happy shaman go OOM very fast. Also shaman can basically support without too much penalty so if they are not supporting they are not playing as well as they could, unlike a druid or a priest in shadowform.
Paladins simply can't be effective main attackers, although they can be good secondary attackers/supporters. And they can be crazy good pure supporters/combat healers.
Now yes you should heal when its useful. But I am talking about what task you are performing. Paladins simply are not threatening when they are attacking. A shadow priest can f*** you up hardcore without throwing a heal. I have two shotted mages with my feral druid. Paladins damage is ok, it is useful, but in order to achieve true threat they must do some support. Paladins are truly threatening when you say "crap I gotta kill that paladin or that mage will kill us all" (or warrior whatever).
Paladins are stuck in that they cannot be truly effective without some measure of support. They do not need to be pure support. But if they have no support at all they just have medicore damage. A hybrid approach can work quite well for a paladin. They are made to be defensive hybrids, so when they get played too far to the offensive they start to fall off.
Every other class can specialize to damage enough to be acceptable to some degree. A shaman,feral druid, shadow priest playing no support does good damage(possibly even excellent damage), a paladin playing no support does mediocre damage. Even the bad shaman can burst out some good damage becasue of shocks, even though they go OOM and are much less effective than a well played shaman (support or main attack shaman)
Again its not that Paladins suck and its not that they must play 100% support, but a lot of people want to play no support at all and when that happens on a paladin you are a lot less effective than other classes.
Paladins are crazy at support, a frigging nightmare. Unfortunately for them they are doomed to be at best secondary attackers. But even worse when they go past secondary attacker into main attack with little support they fall off drastically. But other classes do not.
People say Ret is a bad spec sometimes. But they arent' exactly right. Ret is a fine spec for secondary attacker/semi support. But no paladin spec is adequate for main attack.
shadowpriest and feral druids in a bg are gimp, yeah in world pvp or duels they are good but I'm talking about bg's. the only exception would be if you had alot of healers already but that is never the case, if nobody heals in a bg your team is done for usually.
the point you seem to be making is paladin arnt efficient killers like shaman,shadowpriest,feral druid.....and while that may or may not be accurate i cant really say because i have never played a paladin.
i know some paladin that can drop the hammer down on some people that is for sure, but what i think is far more important is the fact that these specs arnt healing in bg's thats the true problem and when you are a healing class and not healing, you are helping your team lose.