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Dungeons and Dragons Online gets on my nerves.
Souldrainer
Member Posts: 1,857
It's not that they launched without PVP or solo content. It's not that people ruin the puzzles every time you group up. It's not Eberron. It's not the lack of PVE content.
... It's the lack of D&D content. As a player of the game since 1989, I have had a lot of fun with all incarnations of D&D. That said, DDO just gets it wrong. Clerics (my favorite class) are a fine example here. In D&D, there is this domain mechanic that makes thigns very interesting for a healer. In DDO, it's gone. Turning Undead in the tabletop is also not a direct function of your level, where in DDO, it is.
Gnomes are gone. Monks are gone. Horses are gone. Spiked Chains are gone. Prestige classes are gone. Lots of things are either innacurate or missing from the game. I'd say about 85% of what's in D&D does not appear here, and sadly I see similar content in other games. Gnomes are in WOW, why not DDO? Castlevania does chain weapons in a handheld, and Turbine can't do them in an MMO? WHAT!?! NWN seems to be the real DDO, and the game dubbed DDO is just anorher mediocre MMO.
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I have to disagree. DDO to me should be all player driven content with a TON of tools for the players to create it in game. It should have roleplay tools out the yazoo instead of being another EQ 1 clone in Ebberon.
I expected DDO to be Morrowind - Oblivion centered around the adventuring group as an MMO. We got a basement simulator instead.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
You don't really have to disagree. All you have to do is die and pay taxes. Aside from that, I can't tell what you disagree with. First, you say you disagree with my main idea, then you go on to state how DDO should've been NWN, then you say it should have been an MMO of Oblivion. If you read the main idea of my post, none of these points have anything to do with it at all. They are not relevant, so your belief or disbelief in said ideas does not inherently cause a disagreement with my main point.
Let me reiterate my main idea just so we are clear: I am frustrated by DDO because it is not accurate to the D&D license. Why do you disagree with this statement?
I know some goober will come along and say "fine, don't play it." To this I respond "I don't, but it gets on my nerves when I think of how well a company with some common could do with this license."
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No I disagree with that statement.
You made 2 points. One was content and another was accurateness to the current PnP. Or did you confuse content with being accurateness to the PnP game?
And no I did not say I wanted it to be Neverwinter Nights. Completely different approach, and I hate to break it to you but Neverwinter Nights isn't even close to making the "MMO" portion of the requirement.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I have to disagree. DDO to me should be all player driven content with a TON of tools for the players to create it in game. It should have roleplay tools out the yazoo instead of being another EQ 1 clone in Ebberon.
I expected DDO to be Morrowind - Oblivion centered around the adventuring group as an MMO. We got a basement simulator instead.
Only have two things to say. Neverwinter Nights and Neverwinter Nights 2.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Fadeus, it is missing horses, large numbers of spells, the entire monk class, the PrC concept, Most of the feats and equipment, about half the races, and a ton of other things, and that is JUST from the Player's Handbook and DMG. A vast array of thigns are not translated correctly, for example the EXP system and the cleric turning thing.
That's not counting the Eberron dragonmark houses and the utter lack of their races, PrC's, and Equipment.
Based on what is not there, how in the world can you possibly even justify an inkling of the idea that the game is a good translation of D&D? If you don't think the turning mechanics and a number of other mechanics are wrong, you just need to reread your 3rd edition PHB, point blank and period.
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#2. In 3.5 your level does effect your ability to turn. It determines what the highest hit die of undead you are capable of turning and which you are capable of destroying.
#3. Gnomes, Monks, and Prestige Classes are all planned. No MMO launches with every possible bit of content or they would not have a reason to produce expansions. I would expect to see polearms later as well, but most likely not spiked chains. They serve very little purpose and are complete niche item.
For all of you people who bought DDO thinking it was going to bring back the good old days of D&D..... you should have saved your money and got NWN2.
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
I've not played DDO, but the core idea behind it was to replicate the old school D&D experience of having some characters and playing through a classic module. I'll leave how well it does that or not to others.
To be honest though, I think one of the main issues for DDO, quality of the game aside, which got it off to completely the wrong footing was it going for a monthly subscription model. I'm not saying finding another enduring payment method is easy, but it certainly needed one. As soon as you monthly subscription everyone's mind slips into the theory it should have shared, non-instanced setting, crafting, PvP, level caps, endgame and so on. In reality, DDO was supposed to be about none of these things and about choosing a module and going.
In this way, just like the D&D modules of old, the players should have been happy to get access to a new module for 5-8th level characters even if they have 10th level ones as they wanted to play the module - but this demands the game releases content across the level range at all times and somehow bucks the journey to endgame model.
The payment methid isn't everything, but it certainly helps change the approach players take to the game, by choosing a monthly one they shot themselves in the foot I think.
Still, all this may be moot as the game might be crap, but that was my main issue, they seemed to have conflicting goals with the intent of the game compared to the traditional MMORP pricing model.
YAY! Now we get to see the game go from being 85% incomplete to being 83% incomplete. Next thing you know, we will have elves and half orcs and changelings running around as PC's! By the time they get all of the the 3rd edition and Eberron content implemented, we'll be downloading errata for the 4th edition.
That brings up another thing. If they can't even handle the races of Greyhawk, why in the hell did they even bother choosing Eberron? Eberron has everything that appears in Greyhawk, plus everything in the Eberron Handbook, and then some. What the hell are these guys smoking?
Some of the content (like spiked chains) won't even work within the craptastic engine they are using. If you could add what's in the game now to what they are planning and come up with a 51% complete D&D experience, I would shut up and subscribe. At 17% complete, I am pissed.
I know. I just said it's not a direct function, which it isn't. The difference? In DDO, you don't roll the 2d6 afterwards. In DDO, I went up against a 1/4 HD Skeleton as a 2nd lvl character. I rolled a natural 20 on turning. The thing started jumping around like a toady-frog. This was when I concluded that the DDO team did not comprehend the cleric class, at all.
First of all, spell points are not a part of D&D, which furthers my original point. That's not a D&D thing. I see a lot of D&D video games out there and less than 10% of them have ever used spell points. The ones that do use spell points always flop. Why? Because D&D is not a spellpoint game! What the hell were the devs thinking?
Second of all, the idea that spell points make it more difficult to add in domains is very narrow-sighted. Domains do not have to be spell point related at all. even in a SP system. When someone selects spells, simply have them pick base spells and then domain spells afterwards, just like some tabletop DMs do. All it would take is for the devs to roll up their sleeves and get their asses to work for once.
Finally, I scoff at the idea of domains being an unneeded addition. That is to say, "unneeded? PFFT!!!" This was the best part of the jump to 3rd edition IMO. It actually transformed the Cleric from a healbot into an enjoyable class. If YOUR favorite part were removed, would you call it an unneeded addition?
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YAY! Now we get to see the game go from being 85% incomplete to being 83% incomplete. Next thing you know, we will have elves and half orcs and changelings running around as PC's! By the time they get all of the the 3rd edition and Eberron content implemented, we'll be downloading errata for the 4th edition.
That brings up another thing. If they can't even handle the races of Greyhawk, why in the hell did they even bother choosing Eberron? Eberron has everything that appears in Greyhawk, plus everything in the Eberron Handbook, and then some. What the hell are these guys smoking?
Some of the content (like spiked chains) won't even work within the craptastic engine they are using. If you could add what's in the game now to what they are planning and come up with a 51% complete D&D experience, I would shut up and subscribe. At 17% complete, I am pissed.
I know. I just said it's not a direct function, which it isn't. The difference? In DDO, you don't roll the 2d6 afterwards. In DDO, I went up against a 1/4 HD Skeleton as a 2nd lvl character. I rolled a natural 20 on turning. The thing started jumping around like a toady-frog. This was when I concluded that the DDO team did not comprehend the cleric class, at all.
First of all, spell points are not a part of D&D, which furthers my original point. That's not a D&D thing. I see a lot of D&D video games out there and less than 10% of them have ever used spell points. The ones that do use spell points always flop. Why? Because D&D is not a spellpoint game! What the hell were the devs thinking?
Second of all, the idea that spell points make it more difficult to add in domains is very narrow-sighted. Domains do not have to be spell point related at all. even in a SP system. When someone selects spells, simply have them pick base spells and then domain spells afterwards, just like some tabletop DMs do. All it would take is for the devs to roll up their sleeves and get their asses to work for once.
Finally, I scoff at the idea of domains being an unneeded addition. That is to say, "unneeded? PFFT!!!" This was the best part of the jump to 3rd edition IMO. It actually transformed the Cleric from a healbot into an enjoyable class. If YOUR favorite part were removed, would you call it an unneeded addition?
The only unneeded addition to DDO was you and apparently since you don't like the rules they play by you have left. Therefore I am quite content.
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Never role played in my life, but watching that D&D spoof from Summoner I can say there was more than 1 hero in the "sessions". MMOs just have 1000s of people in a session
Wait was it summoner or some other game ? You know im talkin bout ? The dragon was one of the players and was raiding the fridge.
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
YAY! Now we get to see the game go from being 85% incomplete to being 83% incomplete. Next thing you know, we will have elves and half orcs and changelings running around as PC's! By the time they get all of the the 3rd edition and Eberron content implemented, we'll be downloading errata for the 4th edition.
That brings up another thing. If they can't even handle the races of Greyhawk, why in the hell did they even bother choosing Eberron? Eberron has everything that appears in Greyhawk, plus everything in the Eberron Handbook, and then some. What the hell are these guys smoking?
Some of the content (like spiked chains) won't even work within the craptastic engine they are using. If you could add what's in the game now to what they are planning and come up with a 51% complete D&D experience, I would shut up and subscribe. At 17% complete, I am pissed.
I know. I just said it's not a direct function, which it isn't. The difference? In DDO, you don't roll the 2d6 afterwards. In DDO, I went up against a 1/4 HD Skeleton as a 2nd lvl character. I rolled a natural 20 on turning. The thing started jumping around like a toady-frog. This was when I concluded that the DDO team did not comprehend the cleric class, at all.
First of all, spell points are not a part of D&D, which furthers my original point. That's not a D&D thing. I see a lot of D&D video games out there and less than 10% of them have ever used spell points. The ones that do use spell points always flop. Why? Because D&D is not a spellpoint game! What the hell were the devs thinking?
Second of all, the idea that spell points make it more difficult to add in domains is very narrow-sighted. Domains do not have to be spell point related at all. even in a SP system. When someone selects spells, simply have them pick base spells and then domain spells afterwards, just like some tabletop DMs do. All it would take is for the devs to roll up their sleeves and get their asses to work for once.
Finally, I scoff at the idea of domains being an unneeded addition. That is to say, "unneeded? PFFT!!!" This was the best part of the jump to 3rd edition IMO. It actually transformed the Cleric from a healbot into an enjoyable class. If YOUR favorite part were removed, would you call it an unneeded addition?
They chose Eberron for two reasons. The first is that it was Wizards big new world and they wanted to draw as much attention to it as they possibly could. They were putting money behind the license and their contest as well as faith in the world's creator, Kieth Baker. Second, the world is completly fresh and new and would not have a massive list of expectations for what should be in the content, what NPC's you should be able to meet, how things should look, and how people should react. With the fresh new world they could create their own content and stories without stepping on anyones feet. I respect and understand both of these reasons.
Spell points have been an optional method for Dungeonsand Dragons magic since the first Unearthed Arcana and they have made a return in the 3.5 version. The developers did try the traditional method of spellcasting but with the length of the dungeons and the translation from Pen and Paper to MMO, they found that the traditional system didn't fit in with how fast paced and frequent combat and encounters happened. It was an unavoidable circumstance.
While I don't have the definitive reason why domains were not included, I can guess at why they were not. This ties in a bit with the addition of spell points, but with the freedom and additional spells already gained by using a spell point system, it would be in effect just another additional free spell on top of the extra spells you are already given. This is important in pen and paper where your spells are more limited, but in a game where you have a much wider option for casting spells it is less important. I do miss that you do not recieve domain benefits, but the developers may have felt these would unbalance the class in the game. A tank mage, which clerics are, are far more capable of holding their own in any situation than any other class in a game. They possess the ability to heal themselves of all wounds and status effects, buff, cast protections, resurrect, wear heavy armor, and use heavy weapons.
A lot of the complaints that people have when they make the transition from PnP to the MMO is how they feel it is different. While I see the differences, I also see all of the similarities and understand that a lot of the changes were necessary for a healthy game to grow and develop. The transition of medias is not an easy thing to do. Really, this is no different from people complaining about their favorite book or comic book becoming a movie. Things have to change for the flow of the story so that audiences outside of the know can understand what is going on and so that viewers are not finding themselves bored in the slow spots.
My person big complaint with DDO is that when I am outside of a dungeon waiting to find a group for some quests that there is nothing I can do. Without crafting or any sort of mini game there is nothing else for me to do except read a book or watch TV. Regardless, I find the game to be a breath of fresh air in MMO's and I think the developers really care about keeping the game successful. The amount of content they add monthly is unmatched in MMO's.
Also Beta'd it. I did come across a good guild that made it fun enough to play for a few weeks. By then I had done the same quests over and over had a shedload of items and gold and was bored sh*tless.
The other players were great but the game simply lacked content.
I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.
Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW
If you beta'd the game and enjoyed it then, you should think about giving it a try now.
I have considered it. Also I played it for about a month after it went gold.
If they bring in the Monk character class I may well give it a go as I always liked the Monk.
BTW do the Banks still take forever to load your deposit boxes?
I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.
Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW