Dying world of gamers.

Sir-Sven · February 2004

I'm not talking about those people that play the new games that just came out. I'm talking about the people that played the first EQ and the first UO. These were the real gamers and the first real games. These games kicked ass and these gamers kicked ass. They're dying, I think. Personally, I think the new games are stupid, short term, something to pass the time games.

What do you think? Am I crazy? Can you even relate? Tell me what you think. lol.

Sir Sven

bum37 · February 2004

yea.. i'm on the similar position... i just hope WoW will get me to play mmorpg's again

darkman · February 2004

for the most part you are absolutely right, while I am not part of the original MMORPG group (I having first played MMORPGS 4 years ago), I can safely say that the community of most online games has tremendously plummeted from there, it simply isn't the same anymore. This also reflects the MMORPGS in sense too, since then, the games have just been a passerby game for a couple of months, then you are done with it. Keep in mind though, it isn't the companies fault, it really just isn't anyone's fault. The fact is, what more can you do with MMORPGS, other than put players in the atmosphere literally. MMORPGS can only go so far, and thus this drives people away from sticking with one game forever because it isn't "innovative" anymore unlike EQ and UO. Though there are some hopefuls that MIGHT change that (WoW supposedly, CoH (city of heroes), DE (dragon empires), GW (Guild Wars)), chances are it still will be the same, I mean what more is there to do innovative wise in the MMORPG market?

phunkymunkey · February 2004

My take on the newer MMORPGs =

I'm a pre-2000 classic UO guy. If you are losing hope, I suggest you check out this game and give the forums and site a thorough look. The community and anticipation is amazing . . .check the hype meter on this one, its a real dark horse that not many know about . . .yet.

Think I'm ??? Check it out and decide for yourself!

www.trialsofascension.com

www.trialsofascension.net

Finwe · February 2004

I was a pre-2000 gamer, started playing MMRPG's in about 1998-99. First game, AC1, and imo, the best game i've ever played, which I've pretty much played em all, except current beta's and obscure asian games. AC1 kept me hooked for about 3 years, and one of the reasons was the PK server, had alot of fun in that game, and havent played as good as one yet, and imo it was extremely underrated and obscured.

As for trials of ascension which somone posted a link too, very promising, very immersive sounding, but the lack of progress is disheartening.

Harafnir · February 2004

I agree completly.... I find myself spending less and less time each year socializing with people, since the servers and the forums of the new games are more and more filled with complete idiots that should have stayed with their consoles and never gotten to touch their daddys computer.

And that I can say no matter what age they are...

Grym · February 2004

Hello,

I played EQ. The game kept me absorbed for over 4 years. I have to tell you though, that I was disheartened with the game almost from the beginning. From my experience, there was no ROLE PLAY. Even on the so called Role Playing servers. Why bother? To me roleplay is vital to game enjoyment. There is more to role play than simply typing "thee" and "thou" when you want to converse with someone. Most people screw up this kind of dialogue anyhow. What about the warrior who only wears chain because he dislikes the restriction on movement in full plate? What about the warrior who uses a sword solely as a preference rather than the stat bonuses an Uber-axe can give? What about the kind magician who casts his spells rarely because he is concerned about the balance of power in the universe? Or the Dark mage who's sole purpose is world domination?

Give us taverns to meet and gather. Give us an opportunity to create player driven quests. Don't just tell us to sit and grind the axe to attain that next level or get the next powerful item. There's no fun in that. Let me create an alter-ego and adventure in the way I wish. Explore the world or enlist as a mercenary. Give us content worthy of a game that wants to call itself an RPG.

Grym Goblinsbane

ianubisi · February 2004

UO and EQ? Try MUD. DIKU, MUSH, etc... Now THAT is your true old-school MMOG!

damkar · February 2004

[quote]Originally posted by Sir-Sven
[b]I'm not talking about those people that play the new games that just came out. I'm talking about the people that played the first EQ and the first UO. These were the real gamers and the first real games. These games kicked ass and these gamers kicked ass. They're dying, I think. Personally, I think the new games are stupid, short term, something to pass the time games.
[/quote]

All games are there to pass the time. Few games accomplish something of value in real life, unless you count sports. However, the old gamers and kick ass games are not EQ and UO, but games such as Wizardry, Bard's Tale, and original Ultima. Of course, for some of us those games were state of the art when they came out ...can you tell I am old ::::33::

damkar · February 2004

Originally posted by Finwe

As for trials of ascension which somone posted a link too, very promising, very immersive sounding, but the lack of progress is disheartening.

The Wailing has that game beat as far as design and playability. However, it is no where near screen shot materials there. Though, the way the talk is going, we are worried about getting development money and release funding. The market is getting too saturated that investors are getting nervous and trust only big name companies. Our idea for the wailing was to involve players directly in quest design, contest for submission of new models, and to integerate the game story line with the player's actions with a printed novel. Not only that if you retire your character, he can end up as an NPC with paramaters pulled from the journal entry of your quests and history. It is the only game I know of that you when you die you have the option to spawn as undead to haunt other PC Players going in and you can have undead mobs assist you even. The best ideas in the world can't come true without a dedicated team of developers and $$$. I am sure if we release parts of the design document, we will have lots of people wanting to get on the team, but $$ isn't as easy to come by. The market SWOT looks bleak.

madjake · February 2004

Crap! Had a long thought-out post but I accidently went back on my browser and when I came back, SEE-YA!

To summarize:

Almost always, our first MMOG's experiences were amazing and it was sooo new and cool. Many of us, including myself, look at alot of these games and expect the same feeling when we play (or at least hope for it) but get disappointed when we dont'. Simply put, we lost our MMOG virginity and nothing will bring it back. ::::05::

That's not to say we can't enjoy future games but it's harder to when you compare them your first experiences. I am guilty of this myself and have a real hard time sticking with any of the newer MMOG's in the past couple years because it comes down to the "Been there, done that." None of it feels new and exciting. (See my first paragraph. ::::02:: )

Anyways, that's how I feel about it.

----------------------
Jake

I'd hate to die twice. It's so boring
- Richard P. Feynman, 1988

silverblade · February 2004

Originally posted by Grym

meet and gather. Give us an opportunity to create player driven quests. Don't just tell us to sit and grind the axe to attain that next level or get the next powerful item. There's no fun in that. Let me create an alter-ego and adventure in the way I wish. Explore the world or enlist as a mercenary. Give us content worthy of a game that wants to call itself an RPG.

Grym Goblinsbane

Yeah, I agree. The only reason that a game wears thin with me in not the graphics, not the wow factor. Its the feeling that there is no role playing element. I fully agree that role play is much more than just saying thee or thou every second word. I remember my old buddy Flem and I playing AC1 years ago. We used go to the tavern, have a drink and something to eat before heading out for adventure... then stop in and have a few drinks at the tavern and toast to the days slaughter. We were keeping this up in EQ. Then Flems character became inebriated and fell off a wharf and nearly drowned. You never see anyone stumbling around drunk these days. We immersed ourselves into a game, and role play was at least, if not more important than leveling. Now I still persist occasionally with EQ, but I only solo because its hard to find anyone around thats worth grouping up with.

Gundamit · February 2004

I agree, it's a sad thing really. But I think they will make a huge comeback with this year. WoW and EQ2 are very strong. I have higher hopes on EQ2 because it's the full revamp of the game that we all started and loved. I myself played EQ for 2 1/2 years, and all other MMORPGs since them have not held my attention more then 6 months. The list encludes DAoC, EaB, FFXI, Planetside, Shadwobane, and TSO. All that money wasted on these trash games in hopes of them bring that feeling of that first battle of EQ. So EQ2 is my last hope in fullfilling that MMORPG gaming experience. May it bring it back for all those from the past to bring them back. I just hope the arseholes do not comeback.

I'm I getting drunk?! Roll the dice to see if I'm getting drunk!
Computer Specs:
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Asylum GeForce FX 5200 256MB
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Sound Blasters Audigy

silverblade · February 2004

I had high hopes for Horizons, and in fact still do. It looked interesting and was going to download the free 7 day trail, but it is only open to residents of the US. I guess I will have to settle for the odd couple of hours plodding around EQ till EQ2 is out. I hope it lives up to what we hope for!

vfrex · February 2004

Real gamers play muds

Seriously though, if you want to talk about a 'dying genre'...I think MMRPG should include a free or dirt cheap (no pun intended) mud that you can play from as you could in the graphical game (but without graphics of course). I don't think thats going to happen though

Anofalye · February 2004

All the MUDS I try where PvP, which lead to me quitting fast for some Black Isles or SSI games back then.

The more peoples they want, the more accessible the game need to be. The more hardcores of any type they want, the more hardcore challenge of that type(and the rewards) they need.

The equation is easy, get the mass, then try to get 1 type of hardcore and sit on your steak!

- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''

Alistair · February 2004

Roleplaying is dying in itself, in MMORPG's. I played Everquest for two years. I was in an RP guild nearly the entire time. While my guild was well respected and had a lot of OLD school players, they'd never really advanced that far. As an even bigger disappointment, I've noticed RP guilds, and RPers in general are sort of treated like that kid that ate paint chips when he was little, and was a little odd because of it: people were always nice to us, but never really took us seriously. Unfortunately, instead of encouraging role-playing, a lot of game companies have bashed it, almost to the point of nothingness (the point that the Diablo series was ever put into the Role Playing genre of games still appalls me). To many players, there isn't a reason to roleplay anymore. In fact, many games almost penalize roleplayers by endorsing the "733+" attitude. PvP is great, but give us a real reason to PvP (like Dark and Light). Dungeon crawling is nearly nonexistent; give us players a reason to dungeon crawl again. Give us a reason to play a gnome warrior over an orc or ogre warrior, even if the orc or ogre makes a better warrior stat wise. Give us a reason to use a weapon that ISN'T the best in the entire game even if we could use the best. Don't penalize the role players because hard-core gamers move through content faster. Until a company can do those things, the MMORPG genre will continue to go down the toilet.

Hahaha...bow down to the Nerd Halfblood warlord!!!

vfrex · February 2004

Okay, shameless plug, I know,,,but you should try the moral decay mud. It has been in existence since 1993. I can start spurting stuff out about it, but I don't think you'd really care. There isn't really much PVP left on it, if any at all. Random player killing is frowned upon, and may even be a bannable offense now. So if you have some free time, give it a shot.

On telnet, or a telnet based client, IP = 131.247.113.1 Port = 3003

You'll see me on there as 'Ogrerex' or 'Anesthesia' Okay, enough plugging

Anofalye · February 2004

Originally posted by Alistair
Roleplaying is dying in itself, in MMORPG's. I played Everquest for two years. I was in an RP guild nearly the entire time. While my guild was well respected and had a lot of OLD school players, they'd never really advanced that far. As an even bigger disappointment, I've noticed RP guilds, and RPers in general are sort of treated like that kid that ate paint chips when he was little, and was a little odd because of it: people were always nice to us, but never really took us seriously. Unfortunately, instead of encouraging role-playing, a lot of game companies have bashed it, almost to the point of nothingness (the point that the Diablo series was ever put into the Role Playing genre of games still appalls me). To many players, there isn't a reason to roleplay anymore. In fact, many games almost penalize roleplayers by endorsing the "733+" attitude. PvP is great, but give us a real reason to PvP (like Dark and Light). Dungeon crawling is nearly nonexistent; give us players a reason to dungeon crawl again. Give us a reason to play a gnome warrior over an orc or ogre warrior, even if the orc or ogre makes a better warrior stat wise. Give us a reason to use a weapon that ISN'T the best in the entire game even if we could use the best. Don't penalize the role players because hard-core gamers move through content faster. Until a company can do those things, the MMORPG genre will continue to go down the toilet.

Hahaha...bow down to the Nerd Halfblood warlord!!!

You are 100% right on this. Saddly I think a computer, even if it would have a webcam, strongly limit roleplaying...

I try to roleplay at first but I realize 2 majors weakness. The first is the weakness you describe above, much better then I would have done. The second weakness is someone have the time to think his roleplaying answer, which is against the very basic of roleplaying. It need to be intuitive, to come relatively fast. If you laugh(or smile to much) at someone proposal, you cant pretend your respect his idea in order to exploit him! On the computer, it is just so easy to pretend...pretending need direct contact, otherwise there are no point in it. It is like playing Poker on the internet...very limited!

- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''

0Avatar0 · February 2004

i agree...i have played uo since it came out the game was sick.....now it's getting pretty old...and i like some things about eq...but have always felt that uo was the best mmorpg! they have houses and a pretty indepth all around game....I LOVE THE PVP [u need true skillz to pvp in UO!].....that is y i never left uo......but since aos came out it is all item based and it no longer takes skillz to pvp but the items u have make up for some skillz required to pvp

so now i am loooking to move on now that i have seen....WOW [world of warcraft] i must say that game does look killa!.....not to sure if i wil leave uo to play it yet......they need to let ppl have there own houses! and the pvp system still needs a bit of work....lol but it is still in beta...so i will have to wait...alll in all it looks to b a great game...that might get me to move from uo.....if i leave uo for this they will have made a great game!!!

I am god!

hercules · February 2004

I am 1997 and was there for UO in the early days.I personally feel the peak of mmorpgs and tyhe community was EQ in 1999 up to early 2001.

EQ WAS as of that time a mmorpg in its real sense .First the word massive multiplayer was felt.You had to group and get big forces to do high stuff(yeah i remember the first ever naggy kill on my server).

This made people feel as part of a commun ity all helping each other and back then most folks were very mature and if you behaved like a 10 yr old kid you would get treated like one as shunned.

The world roleplaying was felt there too.You would see a orge talk funny.A high elf cleric refuse a DE rogue in his group based on fact his counsin was killed by a DE or something like that.And it was never taken too seriously.The same cleric would drop the roleplaying instantly if the DE has trouble getting another group .

Sadly ,I have to say a lot of the problems with newer mmorpgs has to do with the players.First many of the new players are fixated with been uber.Many don't care about the community spirit .

This is easily reflected in the constant naging for ability to solo.Now many of the new mmorpgs have given it that for example horizons and SWG.So what do you have now?Someone can go into the wilderness and hunt alone with no one to talk to or anything for days come back to town spam looking to buy new sword and head off again.Really makes you wonder why such people bother to play a mmorpg.Might as well play single player for free.

Multiple accounts.I remember back then only folks with multiple accounts were those who had more then 1 person in household addicted to game(common was wife/husband).

Nowadays in DAoC for instance half the folks have multiple accounts simple to ensure one account buffs the other so he can be uber.Of course industries love this as it means more money.

Personally I would love to see a new mmorpg dedicated to the old ways of EQ .Build a game in which yeah things were hard to get,you have to group and such.Maybe it will not be a hit with the newer crowd but I know it will be a good hit with us old timers.

Harafnir · February 2004

Aaaah, Bards Tale! My favorite among RPG hands down, ever! It was so good so much fun.

deggilator · February 2004

It usually happens to everyone when he is growing up, either as a gamer or in real life. Don't tell me almost every 60-year-old you've met doesn't look back at his youth and say "Those were the days".

I think the same thing is happening here. The market of MMORPGs is spreading and many new gamers decide to join one or another MMO. There are quite many serious gamers, even at young ages, it's just that the market has grown and a lot of immature gamers also enter that market. You should also take into account that MMORPGs themselves are immature. Consider all the bugs, imbalances, inabilities to correctly develop some features, of the already existant MMORPGs, while the under-development ones are more solid releases.

In my opinion, the world of gamers is not dying, but quite the opposite, it is expanding rapidly. This rapid expansion leads to imbalances which will be corrected as time passes.

Omol · February 2004

I miss the old UO/EQ days. Played UO from release till the day EQ came out. Even tho I am not a huge PvP fan I loved the early days of UO. While the beginning of EQ was fairly rough starting out it was still enjoyable all the way till Scars of Velious, after that I think it started going down hill. I just hope WoW can rekindle that feeling that has been lost since all the newer games coming out just dont seem to have the enjoyment as the early days of UO/EQ did.

Ahh memories.

----------------------------
Omol da'Ox
The Blooded

Gendail · February 2004

Originally posted by hercules
This is easily reflected in the constant naging for ability to solo.Now many of the new mmorpgs have given it that for example horizons and SWG.So what do you have now?Someone can go into the wilderness and hunt alone with no one to talk to or anything for days come back to town spam looking to buy new sword and head off again.Really makes you wonder why such people bother to play a mmorpg.Might as well play single player for free.

Why oh why must I always hear people saying this. I am primarily a solo player and have been playing MMORPGs since 1998, starting with UO, then moving to EQ at launch and finally settling into DAoC ( which is the only one I keep going back to ) a single player game is NOT the same as experiencing a persistant world. I enjoy the feeling of emersing myself in a completely different universe that still continues on when I log out and I enjoy the interaction with other players.

Yes that's right I am a solo player and I still interact with other people. Just because one will solo more than group does NOT mean thay are anti-social. I used to sit my Dark Elf SK self in the cave in East Commons back when that was the big auction zone and pick fights with all the paladins that would wander in, role playihng it to the hilt, some would tell me to piss off but some would really get into it and role play right back while we would both be in /tells laughing about it. I never completely kept to myself, I loved ( and still do ) the social aspect of these games.

I've belonged to some pretty big guilds and always did my part to help out fellow members getting gear, killing X mob, etc etc etc and just generally chatting it up with everyone. I was a Guide in EQ and organized, promoted and ran alot of the events ( Test of Tactics, Test of Mystics etc etc ) on my server for awhile, all voluntarilly, seems alot to do for one that solos and is anti-social doesn't it?

But you're right I should just go play single player games. The games where the world is pre-scripted for me and I know exactly what is going to happen next and can't really control the movement of the game and it is still the exact same when I go back to it as when I left it. Yup, those are the games for me because I am a solo player *YAWN*

People need to understand that not everyone likes to be forced to group all the time, alot of people like to solo, some have to solo. I do it because at any time I can just run off to saftey and go afk while I take care of things that need to be taken care of IRL. It wouldn't be fair to a group to go afk everytime something needed to be done, I would be kicked out of it mighty quickly. I am not saying that I never group, I do in fact group but only when I know that I have the free time to do so, usually one weekend night when nothing better is going on ( and we all know that's every weekend because I am a gamer and as we all know, us gamers have no social lives heh ) I will commit to getting into groups for a few hours and taking care of the heavy stuff. During the week, however, is a different story. I don't have the free time during the week to sit in a group for hours on end so the 2 or 3 hours I can commit on random night s I solo or do other things in game.

hercules · February 2004

Gendail have you played SWG or horizons?

If you have then you would know what soloing is doing to the game.

SWG if not for the fact everything is player made I wonder if anyone would talk to anyone there.

Personally I like how DAoC did their class system as a response to moaning about sloing.They made necros have the god like ability to solo(basically most necros there never group 1 to 50).

Works perfect that way.In short in DAoC every class can solo to some degree which eliminates the usual saying"i can only log for 30mins today and have no time to find an group and want to exp".

Heck for those that played DAoC you would know even an infiltrator can solo a even con if done right and thats as bad as you can get for a class that finds it hard to solo.

If you want to solo full time then there is of course the necro who can none stop pull mobs higher then his level and other classes that can solo pretty damn good.

Thats fine make a game give a few classes god like ability to solo and let people who want to solo or whatever do so period.But when you make games that every class is better off soloing then grouping the community dies simple.

As far as I am concerned who wants to solo let it be so.Thats why its a game you are given choices.But when you make it such that grouping is worth nothing and more of a hassle finding people and you are better off soloing then the interaction is dead.

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