How blizzard came up with gnomes?

viet_boy33 · February 2004

Anyone know how blizzard came up with gnomes. I know they're like in every MMORPG but in story line don't remember any creature close to it. Must be in timeline ahead of Warcraft 3 I guess where they appeared but anyone have any ideas? (besides to make Alliance and Horde sides equal)

I want to cast magic missle.

http://www.flashplayer.com/animation/8bitdnd.html

.ghost · February 2004

gnomish flying machine in war2? i unno, i might b mistaken, that was years ago

Anticat · February 2004

Yeah, gnomes were around in Warcraft II.

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Those who beat their sword into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who don't.

ParaTrooper · February 2004

Yes Gnomes were around in Warcraft II, The Dwarfs and Gnomes came to help the Alliance together, the Dwarfs contributed the demolition squads while the Gnomes well known for their technology contributed the Submarines aswell as the Helicopter type machines(forgot the name of those) And Gnomes were also mounted on those Gryphons.

Zzulu · February 2004

Yup, what the others said.

Heh

viet_boy33 · February 2004

Interesting.....Iv'e played warcraft 2 but cant get use to the money and fighitng is weird.

I want to cast magic missle.

http://www.flashplayer.com/animation/8bitdnd.html

lukster · February 2004

They also made the steamtank i believe and they rule

Gorukha · February 2004

Ya Blizzard made alot of money ripping off everything from Warhammer.

It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.

Kuritsu · February 2004

Not familiar with Warhammer, but gnomes have been engineers long before that. In 1982 gnomes were in AD&D and were known for elaborate pranks and an inclination for minor mechanical contraptions (minor as in "candle on top of helmet"). By DragonLance in the late 80s - 90s, they were turned into full-blown inventors.

I assume that D&D pulled it from lore somewhere (gnomes being something like gremlins), so I don't know where the move to make them technologists started, but I am pretty sure it was well ahead of Warhammer, which copied it from other sources (as everyone did).

Good example: Night Elves (Warcraft) are based on the good Dark Elves/Drow from D&D, like Drizzt and the worshippers of Eilistraee. Drow also became the Dark Elves in Everquest. D&D drow came from Scotish lore (Drow/Drough) which has stories about the evil fairies --everyone borrows from predecessors.

Anofalye · February 2004

In my 1980 red book upholding D&D rules, the gnomes are not a player race(but the halfling are!!! Go hafrings go!).

The gnome are under the Monsters section(hey I translate to english something that was translated to french so dont expect me to respect exact wording). In here, they are describe as smaller then dwarfs, great smith and mining a lot. Loving gold and jewelry, and they like any type of machines, especially crossbow. Hehe they do 1-6 damage while dwarfs does 1-8 and they come in bigger groups then the dwarfs. Hehe the book have an introduction greeting by Tom Moldvay and was written by Gygax and Arneson. Elfs, dwarfs, hobbits are both a race and a class...hehe. Alignement is LAW, CHAOS and Neutral...but the description given would be like LG, CE and TN only. Players are limited to 3 levels, and NPCs to 6. We got 4 expensions that bring up to 36 levels and then an epic quest to immortality(the easiest is doing the 36 levels 3 times more) to then get Gods levels which consists in 5 X 6 +1 very hellish levels for another 31 levels(the fixation to 36 come from 36 possibilies of dices results while throwing 2 regular dices), then it turn to AD&D, then 2nd, then the new D&D and the new revised D&D. There is 1 oldest version that I dont have, the front picture on this second version show a dragon that almost look like a green snake, an elf(wizard fighter for all elf back then) and a warrior with a very weird helm, a puny wooden shield and a bronze javelin(left handed), some kinden garden books have better pictures then that.

My Warhammer book was edited in 1986 so it is not old enought to check, but it is their current used gnomes, the same as they use now, in fact, they still use the same game system with basic minor changes. Games Workshop(the TSR equivalent for Warhammer) always prefer to focus on many others games rather then revising the existing games, which bring us many great games (Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k, Bloodbawl(with many revision here)...)

Yes, it is VERY obvious that Warcraft was build from persons playing Warhammer. But Warcraft outgrow their inspiration where the others games never really outgrow D&D. Night elfs are a derivation of the first elfs they used which come from Warhammer. Nothing bad there, Warcraft is a children of Warhammer, not of D&D! But it outgrow by far their Dad! The orc of Warcraft come throught a Gate into the world...In Warhammer there are Chaos gates in the wild that bring forth chaos legions, including the orcs...The humans are divided into 2 major factions(Imperial & goodies goodies savers of the lands) in each world...in WoW 1 faction is crushed from the start(Imperial crushed I think, but didnt check well enought on this topic, but it would leave the others, which are very good & nice but kinda corrupted)

- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''

Kuritsu · February 2004

While your explanation does make the similarities between Warcraft and Warhammer seem stronger then the ties between Warcraft and AD&D, I am sure it was a bit of both. For instance, paladins in WC seem a near spitting image of the ones in AD&D (which pulled the class from accounts of Charlemagne's knights). Up until AD&D, the only reference to paladins in the century were a TV series about a gunfighter.

The basis for both Warhammer and D&D was JRR Tolkein's The Hobbit (1930s) and the Lord of the Rings series of books. Before those books, elves were considered tiny faeries in the Seely Court, not man sized archers that were nearly immortal and had pointy ears. Same goes for the gruff dwarves, the combative orc, etc. The earliest reference I have seen in fantasy gaming was in D&D (although they were in legend for hundreds of years). D&D started out as a wargame (if I remember correctly it was called chainmail) before it switched in 1973 to a role-playing game that was about orcs and goblins and dungeon crawls. Enter the races of Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Orc, Troll, Goblin and others. All were inspired by Tolkein except for the gnome. And we are not even sure when the gnomes made it into D&D. The first printing of the above mentioned redbook was in 1978, if I remember. So that is the earliest referrance of the little garden ornament getting integrated into a fantasy world.

Since I know nothing of Warhammer other then it was started by Citadel minatures in 1983, and D&D was started in 1973, I would say the Warhammer gnome was influenced by the D&D gnome. Now if the Warhammer gnome was started immediately as a technologist dabbler and inventor, then the characteristic could be credited to Warhammer: Gnomes in D&D being capable of steam engines and other devices didn't come around until 1984 (Dragonlance books and novels), but even before then they showed hints of dabbling in inventions.

Like everything in fantasy, authors borrow from lots of sources, especially since the sources are borrowing from each other. The designers of Warcraft do not live in a vacuum and whether it was primarily from D&D or from Warhammer, they derived a gnome that had traits that people accepted at the time of Warcraft as gnomish traits: short, chubby, cheery bearded little folk who like to invent and experiment, which was well-established by the mid 80s.

I still can't believe I wrote an entire article above on gnomes...

Subleak · February 2004

I don't really remember Gnomes in earlier versions of WC. The only info about them in the past WC games is that they were pretty much neutral (i guess kinda like sweden) and were providing technologies to the dwarven and human races.

From the official WoW FAQ:

What can you tell us about the Gnomes?
The eccentric, often-brilliant Gnomes, known throughout the world for their obsession with developing radical new technologies and constructing mind-bending marvels of engineering, served the alliance well during the Second War. However, during the recent invasion of the Burning Legion, the Gnomes refused to send any personnel to aid their allies. Though Gnomish designs helped turn the tide against the Legion, the Dwarves and Humans were shocked by the Gnomes' decision to withhold their courageous troops and pilots.

When the war ended, the Alliance discovered the reason behind the Gnomes' sudden withdrawal: an ancient, barbaric menace had emerged from the bowels of the earth and invaded the Gnomes' wondrous techno-city of Gnomeregan. Knowing that their allies' priority was defeating the Burning Legion, the Gnomes decided to make their stand alone. They fought valiantly, but Gnomeregan was lost, and nearly half of the Gnomish race was wiped out.

Those Gnomes who survived fled to the safety of the Dwarven stronghold Ironforge, where they recommitted themselves to the Alliance's cause and also to devising strategies and weapons that would help them retake their ravaged city and build a brighter future for their people.

http://www.blizzard.com/wow/faq/faq_races.shtml

BKOOL · February 2004

I think all of you have it wrong. I think that gnomes are a spin off of the lost vikings. Blizzard probably went way back to the lost vikings to think up this race. Although vikings aren't as small as gnomes, there are some similarities. For example, gnomes are good at engineering and this skill probably evolved from the fat viking using his shield as a glider. If you have no idea what i am talking about than chances are that you have not played a Blizzard original "The Lost Vikings". I do recommend that you play it because i think it is Blzzard's best work to date.

Anofalye · March 2004

Hehe

If you want to add to the confusion, in the first D&D world, known as Mystara, there was 3 small countries made of Viking like civilizations, althought mostly humans, they have dorfs and gnomes.

Upon checking, the Night Elfs prolly come from the Shadow Elfs that live under ALFHEIM in that first D&D world. (The Shadow elfs are as well the ancestors of the drow, but they have deadly white skin and face tattoos, the females are the shamans while the male are wizzys...)

Mystara was a weird land...Alphatia was an empire of spellcasters that over petty logic argumentations destroy their first world and prove that Air was stronger then any other element(actually, they just prove they have more worshippers, while Fire was having the strongest individuals they where badly outnumbers and we are talking of Thousands of Spellcasting of Kelben strenght if not more). When their world was in ruin and no more able to substain them, they cast a massive spell and took of their Continent of Alpathia and land in a Sea in the World of Mystara...and if you dont cast there, you aint worth much more then the dogs! (a little like the Egyptians)

Thyathis, always at war with Alphatia, a world of Roman like civilisation that broke free from the Tyranny of Alphatia spellcasters...hehe funny to see the Romans on the breaking free side and not on the conquerors side.

The Republic of Darokin...kinda look like a Renaissance France with the new muskets barely appearing and unefficients and tons of swashbucklers!

Alfheim, in the middle of Darokin, the elven forest, surrounded completely...althought Darokin consider themselves at war with the Elfs, the elfs actually think it is barely a few practice sessions and drive them easily, a few deaths dont seem to have been taken as more then exercise casualties.

Glantry, weirdo spellcasters following the Fire that manage to end up in the same world as Alphatia, they work on gaining all the support they can to fight that evil empire, including making friends with werewolfs, lichs, vampire and anything that can help.

The Duchy of Karameikos...where the players start and come from, the Lord is a Paladin but he sure is the weakest nation around and deerly help the players help on so many things!

And...dont you forget the Spelljammers and the Hollow Worlds!

Bah...so much memories!

- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''

Agathos88 · March 2004

humans are in every mmo... whats your point

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