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So what was so great about Pre-CU ?-*
Wankler
Member Posts: 60
I played SWG from release right up until just before the CU.
The game completely sucked.
I remember Lots and Lots of bugs. Gamestopping, Play breaking kinds of bugs. I remember No space ships, No Vehicles. Single dimmension quests that were kill 30 bunnies and report back. I remember waiting 10 minutes for a shuttle. Oh and you want a Jedi and a Light Saber, well be prepared to give up your life to months of grinding.
To be fair they did add vehicles (although only one person could ride in any vehicle) before the CU.
I do miss the ability to mix and match different profession tree's but I don't miss the tedium of having to grind up those trees. I think I like the more straight forward, quest based advancement that minimizes grinding. Oh and the quests, well most of them are multi-dimmensional, story based quests that allow you to advance without alot of "go stand in a field and kill Rancors all day for days on end"
Comments
ohh - i can't believe i get to do this but
WFN
just kidding with you, The game rocked because it was a world inside of a world, but mostly because of the community.
flamebait, blue part is also in wrong forum - current game discussion belong in the SWG Current Players forum
No space ships - true, big flaw, should've been in at launch, but it was rushed. Was not in any way "gamestopping", though, none of the bugs/issues you mention were. Your argument about gamestopping bugs is specious.
No vehicles - fixed pre-CU.
Single dimension quests - still innumerable "kill 30 bunnies and return" quests - do Legacy and you'll see. Nothing has changed there. Go play other MMOs - you'll get lots of similar quests/missions. Typical of all MMOs, your argument is again specious.
10 mintue waits - built community, provided a venue for making friends, the destruction of the game community has been one of the most decried portions of later versions, and one of the major recognized causes was the reduction of wait times. There was a big benefit most didn't perceive at the time.
Jedi grind - took forever is CU too, with the village. The point of Jedi status was that is was something you earned, not something that was simply given to you for showing up. Did not take months, though. It could, but it did not necessarily takes months. Until the CU/village of Aurilia - that did take months.
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
Now Playing: World of Warcrack
Forum Terrorist
I don't think these forums can hold that much data(or I don't feel like typing it all out--forget which../grin), so I'll sum it up with a few key points:
Pre-CU SWG was an actual living/breathing online virtual world. Every profession was dependant on others. 10 minute shuttle waits, social cantina's and med centers, the mystery of jedi, an emotional and very active Civil War all gave us the illusion that we lived in an actual living world.
On the downside many of us nearly got divorced from our spouses, forgot who our own kids were etc....
Man, I want that again.
And with all of that, you should see what they did to the game now.
That is the real sad part.
We went from somthing that had potential and depth to somthing you would not even wish on someone.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
This more than anything else is the reason there is so much animosity about the CU and beyond. There was a ton wrong with the game before the CU but the CU and the NGE didn't fix any of this. They just broke the game further and expected us to keep playing because it was star wars. The entire swg experiance was like being led around by a carrot on a stick. There was always vauge promises and rumors about future fixes but nothing ever concrete. The 'combat balance' that became the CU was talked about for a year and a half before it hit. It was supposed to be a removal of DOTs and melee stacking, as well the long anticipated return of CH, those were the big issues at the time. Instead it was just a predecessor to the NGE downgrade. How can going from 32 professions to 9 be considered progress? Most expansions add more classes, not less. How do you remove melee combat from a game?
Mustafar? Kashyyyk? When we don't have Bespin or Dagobah or Hoth, let alone Coruscant? All this game is now is on cash grab after another for unsuspecting and uniformed gamers.
People played it.
OH: Also they did not need to be told there is "to much reading"..
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
I swore I would never give those so and so's at $oe another dime of my money, but a couple of my guild mates went back and said it was fun and a couple more tried and they are having fun, then a couple more and now we have 20 active players back in game over the course of the last month.
Really I only wanted a couple of things from this game, I wanted to charge around and chop things up with a light saber and I wanted to blow up tie fighters in an X-wing with my mates around the world.
In the pre-CU game I was not able to have either, I couldn't have the light saber because I have a real life, and I couldn't have an X-wing because it wasn't in the game.
Sprinkle on top lots of bugs, incomplete boring misisons, broken promises by SOE on game improvements and there you have it, the ugly lump that was pre-CU.
Now we have a different game. Same graphics different game. Sure there were some things that I liked better about pre-CU, but overall, I didn't like the game, that's why I quit. By the same token there are things I dislike about NGE, but overall I like this game much better than pre-CU, so I'll keep paying.
In my opinion the game is more accessable to people who want to play regularly, but also have lives and don't have the time to devote to mastering 20 or more professions to find the right one to un-lock their Jedi. The downside to that is it's probably not as appealing to people who like to devote HUGE amounts of time to a game and enjoy the tediosness that was pre-CU.
I think grudges against $OE aside for their past sins, it boils down to do you like apples or oranges better.
IMO We now have a less buggy, more polished, more star warsy game than we had w/ pre-CU, although admitedly a much simpler game with fewer classes and fewer choices.
A point was made above about what made the game back then was the community. That's the one big problem with NGE, $OE has pissed so many people off, to the point to where, if they gave you a free, working, life sized x-wing you'd still have to think twice about giving those tards another cent of your money.
Maybe enough people will get over their hatred of $OE and give it a try again and we'll have a real community again, or maybe monkeys will fly out of my butt.
I'm having fun with my oranges, my light saber and my X-wing, so I'll see you on the Battlefield you Imperial Boot Licking Scum
-Adut:Chilastra [ronin]
In the SWG I purchased back in 2003, we played characters.
Today, we play toons.
You see, it makes perfect sense for characters to sit and watch an entertainer show because the characters want to relax. Or perhaps check in on their shift at the medical center. Characters do sit around camp and tell stories about themselves, because in the world of Star Wars, every character has a story.
I can't say the same about playing a toon though in this NGE. Toons are not meant to be treated as anything other than some subscriber's interface. Toons don't have desires, or need to relax. Toons don't have responsibilities. Toons don't have friends, and a toon has no story other than the owner thought it looked cool.
Toons are only useful for one thing, and that's transmitting the players intent to the game so it can crunch out calculations, and give you a result in graphic form. If it sits idle, it serves no purpose, which is why it came as such a suprise to Helios that we actually understood what camps, battle fatigue, travel times, and wounds were about. What he saw were a bunch of subscribers with idle toons. What he didn't see were characters living their own stories, and sharing their struggles with others.
When I played the SWG I purchased in 2003, I played characters.
Now, all I do is push a toon around a maze.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
Now Playing: World of Warcrack
Forum Terrorist
Because the one I played was "Kill 5 of those. Then drive 5km to kill 5 of those.".
Where is this multi-dimensionality you speak off. Please list a few quests that offer it. Because I can't remember a single one.
And unless my memory is playing heavy tricks on me, there were 0 go kill x mobs quests pre-cu. The only exception were the village missions. But one such mission every 3 weeks isn't that bad.
Why don't you go and play KOTOR. It has Jedi and it has space ships. You're looking for the wrong game. After all, you admit yourself you don't care about other classes, since all you want is Jedi.
And as always, I laugh at comments about polish. WoW is a polished game. SWG is B production.
CU restricted that somewhat. NGE got rid of any notion that this was any longer "The greatest Star Wars saga ever told... yours...."
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
Why don't you go and play KOTOR. It has Jedi and it has space ships. You're looking for the wrong game. After all, you admit yourself you don't care about other classes, since all you want is Jedi.
And as always, I laugh at comments about polish. WoW is a polished game. SWG is B production.
KOTOR is only a single player game.
And I'm having fun with the NGE and enjoying it so I don't need to get KOTOR.
Also I think I said it was more polished than pre-CU, and as far as polish, WoW is in a class by itself, most polished game I have ever seen. So compared to pre-CU IMO NGE has more polish, compared to WoW, just about every game is a B production. WoW doesn't have X-Wings and Light Sabers though
KOTOR is only a single player game.
And I'm having fun with the NGE and enjoying it so I don't need to get KOTOR.
WoW doesn't have X-Wings and Light Sabers though
Neither did SWG apparently. Why do you think it's OK to consider changes to the game good, simply because they delivered what you like? Did you consider some people considered the old game better?
When saying it improved, you're saying it improved for you. And if WoW adds lightsabers and x-wings, then you'll be happy, but 4 million players will quit.
And yet you claim pre-cu sucked. You tried to play a game that wasn't intended for you. Just like WoW isn't. That doesn't mean it sucked. That means you bought the wrong game.
This is one of the things that upset people most. They were told that the game improved. It was unfortunate that players didn't like it anymore, since there was nothing but improvement. Or was there?
It is such sales demographics driven development that is killing the products. You for example, have two buttons that need to be pushed. A Jedi and X-wing. Very simple, very understandable. And as such, you'll never experience or desire the remaining 95% of the game.
SOE's fatal flaw was in thinking that every player is has such simple needs. That SW fandom is truly merely about pushing the buttons. Jedi. Stormtrooper. Bounty hunter. And they figured if they add those 14 buttons, they'll have a hit.
Yes, the SWG did improve incredibly for you. You are the target market. But when claiming pre-cu sucked, you're forgetting a very important thing. Where are the masses of players? Where is the hit that NGE was to bring? How is it an improvement, if a game dies? What good is polish on a corpse? Better yet, pre-cu was so much better, that it developed rabid fan movement DESPITE the bugs, lack of polish, imbalances, etc.
Now imagine what if pre-cu got the polish and development time. You would still hate it, but would everyone else as well?
And if Jedi was too much grind, because you have a life, how come WoW has exactly the same ammount of grind for regular professions, at least 2 to 4 times as much grind for Epic pvp sets, and still manages to bring in the numbers?
Not only that, but grinding epic sets in WoW (the highest achievement) is like doing DWB (old school) for months.
Why do people flock to that game then? Is grind really the turn-off?
KOTOR is only a single player game.
And I'm having fun with the NGE and enjoying it so I don't need to get KOTOR.
WoW doesn't have X-Wings and Light Sabers though
Neither did SWG apparently. Why do you think it's OK to consider changes to the game good, simply because they delivered what you like? Did you consider some people considered the old game better?
** I think you said it well, I think the changes are good because I like them, if I didn't like them I wouldn't consider them good changes. It's my opinion and so what other people think doesn't matter in regards to my opinion, but it does matter in regards to their opionion. But since I'm only expressing my opinion here, I'm not taking into account other peoples opinions.
When saying it improved, you're saying it improved for you. And if WoW adds lightsabers and x-wings, then you'll be happy, but 4 million players will quit.
*** Yes that's exactly what I'm saying, is that it improved for me, not for you or the other players, but yes since pre-CU, SWG has improved for me.
And yet you claim pre-cu sucked. You tried to play a game that wasn't intended for you. Just like WoW isn't. That doesn't mean it sucked. That means you bought the wrong game.
*** Again, in my opinion it sucked, not because the game wasn't intended for me, but because it had bugs, lacked polish and $OE completely ignored the player base, it's why I left and it's why all my quild mates left. I still think $SOE sucks, but the game is much better (Again in my opinion)
This is one of the things that upset people most. They were told that the game improved. It was unfortunate that players didn't like it anymore, since there was nothing but improvement. Or was there?
*** One mans trash is another mans treasure
It is such sales demographics driven development that is killing the products. You for example, have two buttons that need to be pushed. A Jedi and X-wing. Very simple, very understandable. And as such, you'll never experience or desire the remaining 95% of the game.
*** I was a master doc/rifleman pre-CU I also mastered chef and played around with some weapons crafting. I think maybe I'll try bounty hunter or comando next. I got a character respec tool w/ 10 charges so I'll be checking out more than just the Jedi.
SOE's fatal flaw was in thinking that every player is has such simple needs. That SW fandom is truly merely about pushing the buttons. Jedi. Stormtrooper. Bounty hunter. And they figured if they add those 14 buttons, they'll have a hit.
*** I would have to disagree, I think their fatal flaw was that they released a game that wasn't finished, then they took too long to fix it, then didn't fix it properly, then instead of fixing it correctly, they re-wrote it. I still think the game now is better than (IMO) pre-CU, but I do think that it would be an even better game if they had fixed the original pre-CU game. But since that is apparently not going to happen anytime soon, if ever, I'm thinking it's either time to enjoy the NGE for what it is, or move on to another game.
Yes, the SWG did improve incredibly for you. You are the target market. But when claiming pre-cu sucked, you're forgetting a very important thing. Where are the masses of players? Where is the hit that NGE was to bring? How is it an improvement, if a game dies? What good is polish on a corpse? Better yet, pre-cu was so much better, that it developed rabid fan movement DESPITE the bugs, lack of polish, imbalances, etc.
*** I left pre-CU, as did everyone in my guild. We didn't even stick around for the CU. We were all so pissed at how we had been treated as customers by $OE. I think there are alot of people in that camp that are not even willing to look at NGE because of how bad Sony had burned us all. Be that as it may, it's only my opinion, perhaps I'm the only one, perhaps not, but it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it, just as you are entitled to yours.
Now imagine what if pre-cu got the polish and development time. You would still hate it, but would everyone else as well?
*** Sure if they would have done that, it would probably be a better game still, but since the chances of this every happening are very small to nill, it's really a moot point.
And if Jedi was too much grind, because you have a life, how come WoW has exactly the same ammount of grind for regular professions,
*** I have to disagree with you there, most people I know that made Jedi mastered 20+ professions.
at least 2 to 4 times as much grind for Epic pvp sets, and still manages to bring in the numbers?
Not only that, but grinding epic sets in WoW (the highest achievement) is like doing DWB (old school) for months.
*** That's why I left WoW, to be competitive in PvP you had to grind for the epic sets in large groups. I'm sorry but I just don't find killing the same mobs over and over again for endless hours, fun. WoW was very gear dependant, so if you didn't grind for the phat lewt, you were somebodies' hand puppet. I enjoy PvE and I enjoy PvP, but I don't want to have to do the same mindless, repetitive things over and over to be effective at it either. I also want an MMO, not and FPS, where there is advancement based on varied activites and questing, not just the same ones repeated into inifinity. I don't think I'm alone on this.
*** Actually what I really want is an old school, UO, pre-trammel/feluca game, where there was hardcore PvP, anyone could kill anyone, anywhere anytime, when you killed them you could loot their corpse of their gold, their weapons, even their clothes. Rogues could actually steal stuff from you and danger lurked around every corner, none of this namby pamby care bear crap, but I digress.
Why do people flock to that game then? Is grind really the turn-off?
*** You can make the WoW comparision, but I don't think any other game can measure up against WoW. WoW didn't do anything new, they just took all of the things that were already there and polished them to a new level. I've got nothing bad to say about WoW and I've never played a Blizzard game I didn't like. But seeing as how this is not the WoW forum, I'll say no more about that.
This is also not the NGE forum.
i wish they went back to pre-CU SWG...i enjoyed playing my TKA/Doc. if they went back i would go back, i didnt mine the bugs, would rather deal with the bugs than all them darn jedis that killed the game
Dommin Nation
Scylla server
I'll report every single one of your posts till they IP ban you. oh and grow up already
The Mutt Troll. Alternatively known as Dogs or Yapping Dogs. Mutts are pack animals characterized by their loud barking – vociferous, repetitive, usually ignorant and irrational criticism of anything and anyone they do not like. Mutts frequently become obsessed with a few or even a single poster with whom they disagree, often for purely personal reasons. Like a dog gnawing at a bone, the Mutt will attack the object of its ire over and over again, making a fool of itself in the eyes of those who understand such childish behavior for what it is. Often one Mutt in a group of Yapping Dogs will act as the alpha of the pack, while the others chime in to voice their mindless (but loud) support for their leader's opinions.
*Edit LMAO the noob got pwnt! Enjoy the ban