Originally posted by Moirae I loath PvP with a passion because it is stupid and the games are full of leet doods and the worst possible behavior. Much worse than in a PvE environment. Too bad other than that, this game looks good. It's what SWG used to be. For that reason, I may give it a spin.
2am in the morning,but I'll give it a shot.
Yes Moirae,PvP games will have '1337 doods' and 'gankers'. DFO will have them. The only difference in DFO is that I feel they won't be tolerated as much,combining this with the player economy system.
Say player 1337 decides to gank people mining wood. That wood goes towards the construction of a clan's HQ. They need those new walls. Sadly,player 1337 decided it'd be better to 'gank' them for the hell of it. He is a 'lone wolf' as such. The clan aren't happy. They decide to hunt him down and reclaim that wood,as a political symbolisation they won't tolerate their player/NPC resource gatherers being 'ganked'.
Result? Player 1337 is swiftly and mercilessly slaughtered,and if he had any house of his own it's burnt down (most likely place where he stored the wood). He won't like that,not at all. He'll either have to pick less ambitious targets,or join a clan for protection. Unless he finds a clan that are all-ganking however,he's gonna have problems continuing his 'obnoxious' ways.
Basically,I believe that pointless ganking will be thrown out of the window in DFO. Repercussions of slaying a few resource gatherers could be major for a local community. I believe the only time ganking will occur is if it's motivated by a clan's objectives. The slaying of all elves for instance,or claiming their rights to a particular patch of land. Most likely,in a few weeks of playing DFO,if you're ganked there may be a reason. Stepping on someone's land without paying the fine,perhaps? The PvP is open to do that,so expect anything.
Bad behaviour will exist; Shadowbane forums (and in-game) is full of political smack-talk,but also full of sensible people who want these people to back it up. DFO will be no different; rivalling clans wil be spitting curses at each other, smack talk may be common, but it's all part of accepting diverse PvP.
Take the good with the bad. But there'll be less '1337 dudes'. '1337 clans' maybe,but they'll be challenged.
I don't have a clue what you just said and I'm not going to spend the next 10 minutes trying to translate it into the English language. So yeah, whatever.
lol take it easy man, just proving a valid point, no need to get ur panties in a bunch.
Originally posted by Moirae I loath PvP with a passion because it is stupid and the games are full of leet doods and the worst possible behavior. Much worse than in a PvE environment. Too bad other than that, this game looks good. It's what SWG used to be. For that reason, I may give it a spin.
I am glad you may try the game and I hope the pve and crafting will be good enough to rival other mmos. Sometimes I get pretty tired of people mouthing off in game and generally being a pain the butt. One thing I do is ignore the general chat or open chat channels and focus mainly on what is being said in my guild and group chat. I don’t want to have to listen to some jerk mouthing off about my mother or some crap so I use the /ignore command often.
Maybe you will even discover what pvp is about and realize how much more you can get from it.
Originally posted by Moirae I loath PvP with a passion because it is stupid and the games are full of leet doods and the worst possible behavior. Much worse than in a PvE environment. Too bad other than that, this game looks good. It's what SWG used to be. For that reason, I may give it a spin.
Sure, you get some of the players that are like that. But not ALL are the 'leet doods' PK jooz etc.
I used to loathe pvp. Played UO, got PK'd, hated it. Left to EQ. Loved the change, no more paranoia, etc. But eventually I felt something was missing. Played DAoC, realized what I was missing was the challenge. Sure, beating some big bad PvE mob can be challenging, but when that is all there is, and you figure out how to do it, the game no longer has any suprises. Once you have the system figured out, beating the next mob is just another equation of having the right number, classes, etc.
PvP adds some of the random factor back into the game. Adds a new challenge that can keep things interesting. It isn't for everyone, some people want to just hang out with their friends and kill mob after mob and do raid after raid. This game probably isn't for them, though, I'd say definitely give it a try and keep in mind that yes, you could be attacked, find friends make allies and do some PvP. I think you'll find, after having fun doing it, that it makes the game more enjoyable.
Things not to do if you want to have fun in a PvP game:
1. Go alone everywhere and don't make friends. If you are a solo player, then make sure you're ready to get killed a lot.
2. Be afraid of 'losing your stuff'. Don't get attached to the items you carry (in Darkfall, they won't have the same meaning as stuff you might get in WoW or EQ, etc.). You're going to lose them, probably pretty often. Though most likely most of your stuff will get left on your corpse, especially if they make sure its not easy to haul a ton of stuff.
3. Don't run from fights. Most likely you'll die anyway, so try taking someone with you. Sometimes you might need to/want to run, but I really suggest for the most part standing your ground and fighting.
Anyway, I understand your feelings about PvP, I used to have them. I've found that there is more to it than 'some leet dood pk'd me and took my stuffs'.
Not trying to convince you to change your feelings about PvP, just perhaps give it a try, attempting to have a 'it might be fun' attitude.
Originally posted by niccoli00 Originally posted by Moirae I loath PvP with a passion because it is stupid and the games are full of leet doods and the worst possible behavior. Much worse than in a PvE environment. Too bad other than that, this game looks good. It's what SWG used to be. For that reason, I may give it a spin.
Sure, you get some of the players that are like that. But not ALL are the 'leet doods' PK jooz etc.
I used to loathe pvp. Played UO, got PK'd, hated it. Left to EQ. Loved the change, no more paranoia, etc. But eventually I felt something was missing. Played DAoC, realized what I was missing was the challenge. Sure, beating some big bad PvE mob can be challenging, but when that is all there is, and you figure out how to do it, the game no longer has any suprises. Once you have the system figured out, beating the next mob is just another equation of having the right number, classes, etc.
PvP adds some of the random factor back into the game. Adds a new challenge that can keep things interesting. It isn't for everyone, some people want to just hang out with their friends and kill mob after mob and do raid after raid. This game probably isn't for them, though, I'd say definitely give it a try and keep in mind that yes, you could be attacked, find friends make allies and do some PvP. I think you'll find, after having fun doing it, that it makes the game more enjoyable.
Things not to do if you want to have fun in a PvP game:
1. Go alone everywhere and don't make friends. If you are a solo player, then make sure you're ready to get killed a lot.
2. Be afraid of 'losing your stuff'. Don't get attached to the items you carry (in Darkfall, they won't have the same meaning as stuff you might get in WoW or EQ, etc.). You're going to lose them, probably pretty often. Though most likely most of your stuff will get left on your corpse, especially if they make sure its not easy to haul a ton of stuff.
3. Don't run from fights. Most likely you'll die anyway, so try taking someone with you. Sometimes you might need to/want to run, but I really suggest for the most part standing your ground and fighting.
Anyway, I understand your feelings about PvP, I used to have them. I've found that there is more to it than 'some leet dood pk'd me and took my stuffs'.
Not trying to convince you to change your feelings about PvP, just perhaps give it a try, attempting to have a 'it might be fun' attitude.
I can not agree wth you more.
Pvp is the missing factor that many people cant see, or better yet dont want to see, just because their afraid of losing there items or losing the fight. Nonetheless it rocks!
Originally posted by DeletedAcct I find it interesting that you use the games CS, WC3, and BF2 as examples when those are not mmos.
Board games like chess that are thousands of years old aren't MMO's- but you bet your sweet ass they're PvP. It's been a core theme to mankind since our existence; and I'll be damned if I'm gonna let a bunch of trammies and EverQuest sheep bring about 7 more years of darkness to online gaming when they're already had 7 so far.
Hell we should rise up and attack these game's servers. Lol- that's actually pretty funny now that I think about it. What would happen if you just smashed everything and wiped out 7 million WoW accounts? I'd be laughing my ass off. I might do some time and owe some money- but it would almost be so totally worth it in a way.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
Open PvP breaks the boring scripted framework and makes it a game for humans.
EQ, WOW, and so many other mmo´s are not human games they are just advanced chat rooms bringing you an illusion of a world where you have absolutely no impact on your surroundings.
Why ?
Because its a static world that wont change to your surroundings in an intelligent manner.
Does the computer brings any form of challenge when you know its nothing but scripted behaviour with no form of dynamic thinking ?
If you think "yes" then you prolly need a few more years in the scripted environment. Best example is Molten core raiding. If you find that funny and challenging then you prolly dont like the idea that other players can affect your situation in a negative ( Challenging ) way.
The illusion itself contradics its own stories
Why ?
Because you cant do any evil ! Its that simple. So no you are not a hero you are not showing anyone what you are made of, you are simply buying into the illusion that you are. Its playing FPS in god mode and feeling great that you finnaly killed the last boss.. Well DOH he cant kill you what did you expect ? we cant have our customers feeling like a failure, here have a new tier set item and forget the whole thing.. ( sorry ranting now.. )
You entered the world of safety there are 15495 players online, none of them can harm you in anyway and you are a fantastic amazing hero.
With Open PvP there is evil, there is consequence, there is a framekwork to show that you indeed are the hero.
UO in 1997 was a great game because it had evil and purpose to be thoughtfull of your actions. It also gave meaning to be a crafter, to be in a guild, to be nice, to be evil. And even to be crazy. Wether you roleplayed or felt like pissing off people it all made sense because you could interact with others.
Now you prolly think that i am nothing more than a leet dude that enjoys griefing people.
And you are right and im damn proud of it. Pwned OMG OMG HAX
J/K I just like the framework to be a tool for my fellow players to make my online life a LOT more fun.
Originally posted by Makeme Open PvP breaks the boring scripted framework and makes it a game for humans. EQ, WOW, and so many other mmo´s are not human games they are just advanced chat rooms bringing you an illusion of a world where you have absolutely no impact on your surroundings. Why ? Because its a static world that wont change to your surroundings in an intelligent manner. Does the computer brings any form of challenge when you know its nothing but scripted behaviour with no form of dynamic thinking ? If you think "yes" then you prolly need a few more years in the scripted environment. Best example is Molten core raiding. If you find that funny and challenging then you prolly dont like the idea that other players can affect your situation in a negative ( Challenging ) way. The illusion itself contradics its own stories Why ? Because you cant do any evil ! Its that simple. So no you are not a hero you are not showing anyone what you are made of, you are simply buying into the illusion that you are. Its playing FPS in god mode and feeling great that you finnaly killed the last boss.. Well DOH he cant kill you what did you expect ? we cant have our customers feeling like a failure, here have a new tier set item and forget the whole thing.. ( sorry ranting now.. ) You entered the world of safety there are 15495 players online, none of them can harm you in anyway and you are a fantastic amazing hero. With Open PvP there is evil, there is consequence, there is a framekwork to show that you indeed are the hero. UO in 1997 was a great game because it had evil and purpose to be thoughtfull of your actions. It also gave meaning to be a crafter, to be in a guild, to be nice, to be evil. And even to be crazy. Wether you roleplayed or felt like pissing off people it all made sense because you could interact with others. Now you prolly think that i am nothing more than a leet dude that enjoys griefing people. And you are right and im damn proud of it. Pwned OMG OMG HAX J/K I just like the framework to be a tool for my fellow players to make my online life a LOT more fun. Cheers Makeme
WoW is just for kids and peeps who want simple easy gameplay no thinking and no risk so 8 year old and 88 year old can play it.
Darkfall is for those who wanne accomplish something they worked hard for but are not affraid to lose it ,hardcore open pvp world with a much more complex gameplay then wow,s casual carebear kids game.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Then the games doom will start, because the 10% gankers/griefers will start killing the 50% PVMers and 100% of all the newbies. This will drive most of the PVMers away, and turnoff most of the newbies. Without prey the 10% of gankers will quit because they are too weak to actually kill hardcore PVP types. This in turn will turn off the rest of the players that are left because you cant PVP against yourself. Game slowly dies or changes to PVM.
Originally posted by Brainy Open pvp ganking will just kill the game. Basically because gankers need easy prey so they can 3v1 or kill some newbs many levels lower. From my general experience the community will start off with players representing (just taking a wild stab at these numbers) 10% gankers, 20% hardcore PVP, 20% casual PVP, 50% PVM. Then the games doom will start, because the 10% gankers/griefers will start killing the 50% PVMers and 100% of all the newbies. This will drive most of the PVMers away, and turnoff most of the newbies. Without prey the 10% of gankers will quit because they are too weak to actually kill hardcore PVP types. This in turn will turn off the rest of the players that are left because you cant PVP against yourself. Game slowly dies or changes to PVM.
Brainy i can understand that this would be a likely scenario IF the buyers are trying a MMO for the first time. ( the 50 % you are talking about ).
But we have LOADS of MMO´s that have locked down the player interaction, do you honestly think the market needs another ?
The big problem with open pvp is that some guys cannot deal with loosing without throwing a fit on the forums claiming that everyone is griefing them and thus ruining their game.
I dont mind being ganked 3-1 or 20-1 for that matter, and i have absolutely no problem when players are intelligent enough to be stronger in numbers. Hell they can res kill me for what i care ( i can just res somewhere else or i can choose to wait until their numbers have dwindled. I would hate myself if i were voting to have the framework changed because i cannot cope with a nasty situation in the game.
You do not get this kind of dynamics in any other game these days. Evil players with brains are making the game a whole lot more fun. ( so are evil players without brains )
Think about the satisfaction when you get one of those gankers alone and you show him how bad he is at handling a 1v1 situation ( that hurt the evil player in more ways you can imagine )
The reason the gankers are a problem is because you choose to let them be a problem, there are numerous ways to avoid being the victim its just a matter of being able to accept that you cannot win this situation "combat wise" alone.
So please dont sacrifice the freedom in order to create yet another mmo clone let the players police the game and try to be part of the world instead of trying to impose rules that makes it another carebear online.
Originally posted by EndDream there will be heavy penalties for random player killing... you will not be able to go to towns for example.. and you will be Kill on sight for most players... it is a much much easier path not to random pk but to kill enemies of your race and clan... most people will not be "PKs"... Many people read a few paragraphs about this complicated and sophisticated game and base opinions on them... and also.. I've said this before.. The reason the phrase "PvP" has a negative connotation is because of how terrible it has been in all MMORPGS to date (other than UO a long time ago, which many here have not played). PvP is a HUGE part of online gaming.. have you played counterstrike? Warcraft 3? battlefield 2? almost all online games are focused around PvP combat.. an MMORPG is a perfect arena because these confilcts will actually mean some.. crafters will have a purpose.. everyone will have a purpose.. even if you dont like PvP there will be alot more motivation to be a crafter when your guilds territory is on the line.. If this game is done correctly.. which i personally believe it will be.. (people are talking about omg the HYPE!!! it will suck..look at DnL.. the dev's arent even really hyping it.. they are too busy making the damn thing.. players are on the other hand.. and those players probably played UO or Asherons call on the darktide server.. and they just cant take grind, grind.. max leve..l quit.... which is the only thing that all mmorpgs since have provided... playing games like that are pointless.. you may as well play a single player rpg where at least there is a story...
None of that will stop a PKer at all.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Think about the satisfaction when you get one of those gankers alone and you show him how bad he is at handling a 1v1 situation ( that hurt the evil player in more ways you can imagine )
Well you make some decent points, however I think this idea is a bit flawed. Here are a few reasons,
1) The person ganked is likely a newb player just starting, by the time they get experience or the necessary levels/skills this person that killed them will be gone. What are they going to do hold a grudge against every ganker that ever ganks them, how can they possibly remember all the names. What if the person just makes another guy with a different name. I suppose if the game attached all characters on someones account and allowed players to make a hit list by account so every person on a specified list name would glow, maybe then this concept could come to life.
2) You cant gank a ganker for various reasons, the main one being that they just run or dont put themselves into the situation. There is no 1v1 or 2v2 with them because they dont want a fight they might lose, thats why they are ganking newbs in the first place. They dont pvm, they gank, so they dont put themselves into a gankable situation.
3) The victims are likely not going to be pvping these people in the first place, thats the point, they are victims and dont want to pvp, yet are thrown into an FFA situation where gankers many levels higher and sometimes just plain better skilled are killing them and taking there stuff without remorse. These victims/crafters/miners/pvmers have no recourse. Maybe if there was something where they could hire a bounty hunter and the ganker if killed would lose everything in thier bank/home, maybe that would be fair, but its a bit unrealistic.
4) gankers likely will lose nothing if killed because they carry the bare minimum, even if killed what do they lose? Nodda, yet thier victims lose good pvm gear/items aquired.
5) Victims wont get revenge on gankers because the victims dont have the same type of behavior issues. Most of these gankers are antisocial little kids. Victims are not going to change their behavior and become antisocial punks just to get revenge on a few little kids. Usually they will either take it with frustration, or quit.
6) Games that have FFA style pvp fail pure and simple. Good example is Mordred/Andred servers in DAOC, both servers were popular at first but died quick deaths, finally they merged them, yet thier population continued to die. Yet the PVM equivalent, no pvp server has had a consistent population.
7) Gankers require victims but victims dont need gankers. Therefore games that allow the majority of the population to become victims will see that majority disappear to games that dont, and on top of that a side effect is the gankers will also leave with them because no victims = no fun for them.
"The victims are likely not going to be pvping these people in the first place, thats the point, they are victims and dont want to pvp-"
why are you in darkfall? It is the basic nature of the game, seriously why would someone who cares about this play?
"Victims wont get revenge on gankers because the victims dont have the same type of behavior issues"
stop for the love of god thinking that in FFA pvp game there are good guys and bad guys, it doesnt play this way. There is no behavior issue! its a game, that goes out of the way to allow these things to happen, for the enjoyment of the players... If you absolutely cannot see yourself enjoying it, don't play it. I'm not being an ass, or trying to say there is something wrong with not enjoying that gamestyle, but why spend money and time in a game you don't like? plenty of alterantive games.
" Games that have FFA style pvp fail pure and simple"
games not intended for true PvP fail at being PvP games. if PvP is not the core of the game, it cannot suceed as such. The only game to take this on was SB, which is a poor comparsion to anything because it started off bad due to money.
I see posts like this and just think people missed what its supposed to be about.
victim- false word in a game like this, you signed up for the same thing the enemy did. Even non combat classes have to accept this when they are in the line of fire... remember your enemy has to have these types also, and your forces do the same to them- if it was something you could not easily recover from, the game would kill itself. In a setting like this, everyone PvPs, even if you do no actual damage yourself.
items- so you lost your item to a 'ganker'- so what? buy another. in a game that allows you to lose an item, the item no longer represents 1000 hours of your gameplay. If they were hard to get, the system would be self defeating and very quickly nobody would play.
non-combat toon- no such thing. A game like this allows crafters not only to be equal to a combatant, but superior. If crafters put the same thing on the line combatants do, and cant even defend themselves, they become a valuable resource no guild would want to be without. You get to put it all on line, but you get to know that no matter who actually killed your enemy, thye died by your hand.
Think about the satisfaction when you get one of those gankers alone and you show him how bad he is at handling a 1v1 situation ( that hurt the evil player in more ways you can imagine )
Well you make some decent points, however I think this idea is a bit flawed. Here are a few reasons,
1) The person ganked is likely a newb player just starting, by the time they get experience or the necessary levels/skills this person that killed them will be gone. What are they going to do hold a grudge against every ganker that ever ganks them, how can they possibly remember all the names. What if the person just makes another guy with a different name. I suppose if the game attached all characters on someones account and allowed players to make a hit list by account so every person on a specified list name would glow, maybe then this concept could come to life.
2) You cant gank a ganker for various reasons, the main one being that they just run or dont put themselves into the situation. There is no 1v1 or 2v2 with them because they dont want a fight they might lose, thats why they are ganking newbs in the first place. They dont pvm, they gank, so they dont put themselves into a gankable situation.
3) The victims are likely not going to be pvping these people in the first place, thats the point, they are victims and dont want to pvp, yet are thrown into an FFA situation where gankers many levels higher and sometimes just plain better skilled are killing them and taking there stuff without remorse. These victims/crafters/miners/pvmers have no recourse. Maybe if there was something where they could hire a bounty hunter and the ganker if killed would lose everything in thier bank/home, maybe that would be fair, but its a bit unrealistic.
4) gankers likely will lose nothing if killed because they carry the bare minimum, even if killed what do they lose? Nodda, yet thier victims lose good pvm gear/items aquired.
5) Victims wont get revenge on gankers because the victims dont have the same type of behavior issues. Most of these gankers are antisocial little kids. Victims are not going to change their behavior and become antisocial punks just to get revenge on a few little kids. Usually they will either take it with frustration, or quit.
6) Games that have FFA style pvp fail pure and simple. Good example is Mordred/Andred servers in DAOC, both servers were popular at first but died quick deaths, finally they merged them, yet thier population continued to die. Yet the PVM equivalent, no pvp server has had a consistent population.
7) Gankers require victims but victims dont need gankers. Therefore games that allow the majority of the population to become victims will see that majority disappear to games that dont, and on top of that a side effect is the gankers will also leave with them because no victims = no fun for them.
Overall i think you have totally misunderstood the idea of open pvp. It means freedom to do what you want, be it evil or good. Its your choice. What you want is that freedom removed.
Let me answer each arguement you posted.
1) Newbies hungry for safety should not even play this game at all. The market is full of titles that has a static environment in order to keep players from harming eachother in a negative way. Your point is that new players getting ganked will leave the game very fast. I agree with you on that point. However those players should read the info on the game before they purchase the product. This game is intended for players who can deal with loosing their equipment and dying a lot dont forget that.
2) That only shows the gankers are not ganking for honor and glory but for getting your stuff or being evil Do you expect to impose your own virtues on to someone who feels differently ? Its called freedom of choice.
3) Its a mmo you need to find your friends and not put yourself in a dangerous situation when you lack the skills. If you want to play alone and be safe all the time you should play singleplayer games or try one of the other titles like WoW, EQ2, etc..
4) Dont forget the element of surprise. Its true not much is needed to pk, however they suffer other permanent consequences compared to your temporary consequence ( death and loss of items ). What happens when 10 people stumble upon a lone PK ? they become the gankers very fast. It goes both ways.
5) Actually you would be surprise to see how many socially stable people become PK´ers. I do no consider myself an anti-social person, i have a good life with strong ties to real life people. Dont judge what you cant see or know nothing about. And yes i have been PK´ing in a lot of different ways. Have also been the Anti chasing the PK´ers its all good fun.
6) You are comparing 2 different things here and you are not making any sense with your point at all. DAOC, EQ,WOW has nothing to do with open pvp in darkfall it has more in common with uo in 1997 ( pre trammel )
7) It is true that gankers need victims that is only logical and victims do need gankers. ( its called adrenaline dont be affraid of it ) I recall my first time being pked i was so frustrated my heart was pounding and i did all the stupid things in order to make sure i got killed again... BUT DAMN .. i just realized a game made my heart go nuts and my palms sweaty. Only in open pvp do you get that feeling imo.
Its clear you have a lot frustration in regards to other players harming you when outnumbered. I understand the frustration i have been there myself but to sacrifice the freedom in order to impose fairness in war is a contradiction if you want evil to be stay evil. Yes you need evil in a game so that you may step out of the shadows and proove you can deal with it and even drive it back. ( killing a mob is not driving back evil )
Be a true hero and dont let the evil ways of gankers get to you.
In order to have a cilivized game here in Darkfall rules need to be implemented PERIOD!
Random Ganking no matter how fun it is for the person or group doing at the time. Is very counterproductive to the rest of the community.
There are very effective ways to curb this behavior.
1. Certain key skills should be alignment oriented once you pass a certain point the gods strip you of that skill (maybe temporarily maybe permenatly) as you are not deemed worthy of it any more.
2. Players can post Wanted tags on Gankers. This doesnt stop the Ganker from playing the game if they keep a low profile, but when entering certain cities he will not be given admittance (legally anyway) and once detect they are flagged for X amount of time or until they leave the current zone they are in.
3. Live GMs during peak times. Eventually Darkfall should promote high level/ high reputation players to become GM's that represent all three sides equally, good, evil, and nuetral. To hold Judgement on cases brought before them.
Well Makeme I see what your vision is, however I just dont agree you can get there with those type of dynamics. What I think most pvpers want is just a fair / fun pvp environment in a fantasy setting. Much like an FPS MMO with swords/spells, where you can keep and gain wealth long term. Actually I think FFA in that type of game would work, but there are key ingredients that are missing in this game.
In FPS you basically are equal or almost equal to your opponent at minute you join. There are no huge level differences, everyone has basically the same chance to kill thier opponent, teamplay, skill, experience are normally the deciding factors. Not levels, gear .... If a FPS had something where you can just gank lowbies right as they logged in without penalty, what you would see is people would just stop joining that IP or game and never join it again. They would gravitate to fair games.
Your point 7) is way off IMO, its absolutely ridiculous to say people enjoy being ganked. Ya maybe 1 time (stress maybe). If you enjoy being ganked so much why dont you just run around on a low level guy without weapons/armor/spells? Why even level up at all just start a low guy and play it forever in high end zones, what fun it would be to just be ganked all day long without hope to win. Yeah I see alot of people signing up for that.
Also if being ganked was so great then why do games have to offer double xp, bonus items, bonus rewards, bonus everything just to get people to pvm / play in PVP zones?
ok i have to ask because ive never played a PvP mmorpg, played many mmorpg, just never PvP centered... i think that is what i want to try next tho, and this games seems like a good start for it. now to my question, instead of a level 50 being able to go up to a level 20 and just slicing and dicing him (which cant be much fun, or i wouldnt blow money on a game just to do that) why dont they make a game where both players, or entire partys must agree to a fight? ya know, walk up and slap the guy for stealing your kill or whatever, then ask if he wants to fight, if he does, kick his @ss or get your @ss kicked and your sword taken, if he dont, call him a wuss and get the next mob/item or w/e.
i dont think i would like a game where i am lvl 20 get killed over and over by a lvl 50 and all ive worked for so far taken.. but even maybe a justice system where super high lvl NPCs or w/e go out to bring this person down and return your stuff. or maybe have an ingame place where you can look up info on chars to tell how many times they have simply murdered someone, and what lvl they where when they killed a lvl 20.. this would at least keep people from trusting that person, or helping them, i know in alot of games ive played reputation has been very important... of course it could mean nothing in this type of game, im not sure thats why i need someone to reply to this so i know, gimme some answers XD.
okay Eagler and all the other DF-noobs, go and read about the game before you start making suggestions. Its not really that big a job, if youre really interested of it.
Originally posted by Eagler777 ok i have to ask because ive never played a PvP mmorpg, played many mmorpg, just never PvP centered... i think that is what i want to try next tho, and this games seems like a good start for it. now to my question, instead of a level 50 being able to go up to a level 20 and just slicing and dicing him (which cant be much fun, or i wouldnt blow money on a game just to do that) why dont they make a game where both players, or entire partys must agree to a fight? ya know, walk up and slap the guy for stealing your kill or whatever, then ask if he wants to fight, if he does, kick his @ss or get your @ss kicked and your sword taken, if he dont, call him a wuss and get the next mob/item or w/e. i dont think i would like a game where i am lvl 20 get killed over and over by a lvl 50 and all ive worked for so far taken.. but even maybe a justice system where super high lvl NPCs or w/e go out to bring this person down and return your stuff. or maybe have an ingame place where you can look up info on chars to tell how many times they have simply murdered someone, and what lvl they where when they killed a lvl 20.. this would at least keep people from trusting that person, or helping them, i know in alot of games ive played reputation has been very important... of course it could mean nothing in this type of game, im not sure thats why i need someone to reply to this so i know, gimme some answers XD.
As an experienced MMO gamer of 6 years, I can completely understand your concern, Eagler777. The thing that you need to note about Darkfall Online is that there [i]are[/i] no levels. It's an entirely skill based game. What's more, the developers have discussed the possibility of setting a flat HP max for all players, regardless of their advancement in skill trees. Basically, what it comes down to (and what the devs have noted on multiple occasions), is that no one is going to get entirely annihilated by one other character. It'll all be based on your knowledge of the game and personal skill, along with a little tweaking to your character with spells, equipment, and skills. They've also noted that any small group of 3 or 4 players freshly starting out in the game will be a grave challenge for a single player - no matter how experienced they are. So, in a game built as Darkfall is, you need not worry about some high level player coming along and smacking you around like his red headed step child while you're out wandering the fields... Especially if you team up early with a guild, and have multiple people there to back you up.
So basically Eagler777, expect to be ganked over and over again while you are just starting. Not just by 1 player, but by groups of players. Just like in OLD style UO, as soon as you walk right outside of town dozens of players will be waiting for you and your newb friends so they can gank the hell out of them. Dont expect to be able to call for help and get other highly skilled players to escort or help you, because all the starting zones will be controled by gankers. The best you will find is someone pretending to be your friend but soon as you are outside they backstab ya and kill ya with thier ganker buddies.
Oh yes dont forget to join a guild soon as you join the game. Yes it will be difficult because you will have no clue which guild to join, and the good guilds wont even let newbs join them. Also when you do finally join a newb guild, unfornately plan for that group to be fresh meet for the gankers. Even if your newb guild, brings twice as many players to help you then the gankers have, the gankers will just call in thier long list of ganker buddies. I mean who doesnt want to kill an entire group of newbs and take thier stuff. All this sounds like so much fun.
haha pretty funny stuff, who ever said i wasnt going to be the one with all the ganker buddies brainy?? >.> anyway i went back and got all the facts straight now... and im sure if this game ever gets released ill have the game from release date. seems like it will be alot of fun and stuff now that i know how the system works. and for the record i wasnt trying to give ideas on how to make or change a game, im no where near skilled enough to develope a game, was just addressing my opinion very broadly as to what kinds of thoughts could make a game fair and fun. anyway, they have it perfect enough the way they are doing it. everything this way will be fair.. if a ganker comes up to me and decides to slap me, i might be skilled way more than him and woop some @ss and take his stuff, which is another good point. gankers in this game will have to be using/wearing their good gear and stuff if they plan on killing someone, if not they are prolly gonna be the ones getting ganked.
Well ganking is not the same as PVP imo. I think what you are talking about is evenly skill/pvp/gear, which is not ganking IMO. Ganking is when the attacker chooses to kill people that they know have no chance of defending themselves. Im all for PVP. but what im talking about that is a problem is ganking. There will be newb locations where gankers will know there is no way you will win. If there was a way you would win then they would bring 10 v 1 therefore you still wouldnt win. If you bring the 20 people vs thier 1 you would be the ganker. Same concept really. Either way it will all be about ganking.
Its really too bad they cant make a PVP game where the majority of fights are even, except for skill/intelligence. Guess that concept is a pipe dream. Seems these developers either support ganking, or class imbalances, super classes/abilities.
I've played 2 other games where there is open PvP one is very similar to this KO(now known as KE i believe) and SRO. In SRO there was a nice system, you PK for no reason u become a murderer and ur murderer lvl went higher as u killed more people. If you entered a town u would lose hp and if u were outside a safe zone people can attack you and kill you w/o penalties which was a good system in stopping most people from attacking. In KE there was 1 main town w/o any PvP so you can get items from humans or orks or w/e side u want to get shit from. Everywhere else was an Open PvP zone, so it encouraged teamwork i saw barely anyone(cept me cuz i dont care if i get killed in PvP it just makes me train harder to b stronger) leave a town w/o a party or friend to help them if they got mobbed. There were tons of parties and usually you would see about 2-5 of them running around together, like they say safety in numbers, so if you are against PvP saying its anti-social then you dont know what youre talking about. It encourages teamwork more than splitting people apart. I mentioned SRO because it had a good system for preventing random killing and KO/KE to prove to the anti-PvP that it doesnt split ppl apart it brings them together and promotes teamwork.
Originally posted by Brainy Well ganking is not the same as PVP imo. I think what you are talking about is evenly skill/pvp/gear, which is not ganking IMO. Ganking is when the attacker chooses to kill people that they know have no chance of defending themselves. Im all for PVP. but what im talking about that is a problem is ganking. There will be newb locations where gankers will know there is no way you will win. If there was a way you would win then they would bring 10 v 1 therefore you still wouldnt win. If you bring the 20 people vs thier 1 you would be the ganker. Same concept really. Either way it will all be about ganking. Its really too bad they cant make a PVP game where the majority of fights are even, except for skill/intelligence. Guess that concept is a pipe dream. Seems these developers either support ganking, or class imbalances, super classes/abilities.
You have obvious never read anything about darkfall. Yeap, ganker choose normally players with a lesser skills than themself.
But it is impossible to know in darkfall which player has a lower skill.
There are no level in Darkfall, there are no Name Tags in Darkfall. And you do not know how good anyone is, you cant see it at the equipment. There are no low level locations, or newb locations.
They spawn in the capitol city or some cities around it, but all those cities are also well visited from all other players, because there they can trade, get stuff, and so on and so forth.
Next point, Darkfall has a alignmentsystem, if you gank players all day long, you will become evil, and you cant visit the capitol city or be even near of it without danger. Other players will kill you, Guards will attack you, the normal good player get + alignment for killing evil players, and with good alignment you get some extra quests and so on.
And again.. there are no levels, as it was said again and again.. 3-4 newbs can kill a veteran. Time is not as important, equipment is not game breakin, it depends just on your skill, like any fps game.
And if they bring a lot of gankers(evil players) near the capital city, i think you will see as fast as possible a lil war with a lot of good aligned players, which want to kill the evil guys.. and i also think such things can be really funny.
Sure every noob, and all other players will die a lot, no question.. it is a pvp game.
Comments
2am in the morning,but I'll give it a shot.
Yes Moirae,PvP games will have '1337 doods' and 'gankers'. DFO will have them. The only difference in DFO is that I feel they won't be tolerated as much,combining this with the player economy system.
Say player 1337 decides to gank people mining wood. That wood goes towards the construction of a clan's HQ. They need those new walls. Sadly,player 1337 decided it'd be better to 'gank' them for the hell of it. He is a 'lone wolf' as such. The clan aren't happy. They decide to hunt him down and reclaim that wood,as a political symbolisation they won't tolerate their player/NPC resource gatherers being 'ganked'.
Result? Player 1337 is swiftly and mercilessly slaughtered,and if he had any house of his own it's burnt down (most likely place where he stored the wood). He won't like that,not at all. He'll either have to pick less ambitious targets,or join a clan for protection. Unless he finds a clan that are all-ganking however,he's gonna have problems continuing his 'obnoxious' ways.
Basically,I believe that pointless ganking will be thrown out of the window in DFO. Repercussions of slaying a few resource gatherers could be major for a local community. I believe the only time ganking will occur is if it's motivated by a clan's objectives. The slaying of all elves for instance,or claiming their rights to a particular patch of land. Most likely,in a few weeks of playing DFO,if you're ganked there may be a reason. Stepping on someone's land without paying the fine,perhaps? The PvP is open to do that,so expect anything.
Bad behaviour will exist; Shadowbane forums (and in-game) is full of political smack-talk,but also full of sensible people who want these people to back it up. DFO will be no different; rivalling clans wil be spitting curses at each other, smack talk may be common, but it's all part of accepting diverse PvP.
Take the good with the bad. But there'll be less '1337 dudes'. '1337 clans' maybe,but they'll be challenged.
I am glad you may try the game and I hope the pve and crafting will be good enough to rival other mmos. Sometimes I get pretty tired of people mouthing off in game and generally being a pain the butt. One thing I do is ignore the general chat or open chat channels and focus mainly on what is being said in my guild and group chat. I don’t want to have to listen to some jerk mouthing off about my mother or some crap so I use the /ignore command often.
Maybe you will even discover what pvp is about and realize how much more you can get from it.
I used to loathe pvp. Played UO, got PK'd, hated it. Left to EQ. Loved the change, no more paranoia, etc. But eventually I felt something was missing. Played DAoC, realized what I was missing was the challenge. Sure, beating some big bad PvE mob can be challenging, but when that is all there is, and you figure out how to do it, the game no longer has any suprises. Once you have the system figured out, beating the next mob is just another equation of having the right number, classes, etc.
PvP adds some of the random factor back into the game. Adds a new challenge that can keep things interesting. It isn't for everyone, some people want to just hang out with their friends and kill mob after mob and do raid after raid. This game probably isn't for them, though, I'd say definitely give it a try and keep in mind that yes, you could be attacked, find friends make allies and do some PvP. I think you'll find, after having fun doing it, that it makes the game more enjoyable.
Things not to do if you want to have fun in a PvP game:
1. Go alone everywhere and don't make friends. If you are a solo player, then make sure you're ready to get killed a lot.
2. Be afraid of 'losing your stuff'. Don't get attached to the items you carry (in Darkfall, they won't have the same meaning as stuff you might get in WoW or EQ, etc.). You're going to lose them, probably pretty often. Though most likely most of your stuff will get left on your corpse, especially if they make sure its not easy to haul a ton of stuff.
3. Don't run from fights. Most likely you'll die anyway, so try taking someone with you. Sometimes you might need to/want to run, but I really suggest for the most part standing your ground and fighting.
Anyway, I understand your feelings about PvP, I used to have them. I've found that there is more to it than 'some leet dood pk'd me and took my stuffs'.
Not trying to convince you to change your feelings about PvP, just perhaps give it a try, attempting to have a 'it might be fun' attitude.
Niccoli
I used to loathe pvp. Played UO, got PK'd, hated it. Left to EQ. Loved the change, no more paranoia, etc. But eventually I felt something was missing. Played DAoC, realized what I was missing was the challenge. Sure, beating some big bad PvE mob can be challenging, but when that is all there is, and you figure out how to do it, the game no longer has any suprises. Once you have the system figured out, beating the next mob is just another equation of having the right number, classes, etc.
PvP adds some of the random factor back into the game. Adds a new challenge that can keep things interesting. It isn't for everyone, some people want to just hang out with their friends and kill mob after mob and do raid after raid. This game probably isn't for them, though, I'd say definitely give it a try and keep in mind that yes, you could be attacked, find friends make allies and do some PvP. I think you'll find, after having fun doing it, that it makes the game more enjoyable.
Things not to do if you want to have fun in a PvP game:
1. Go alone everywhere and don't make friends. If you are a solo player, then make sure you're ready to get killed a lot.
2. Be afraid of 'losing your stuff'. Don't get attached to the items you carry (in Darkfall, they won't have the same meaning as stuff you might get in WoW or EQ, etc.). You're going to lose them, probably pretty often. Though most likely most of your stuff will get left on your corpse, especially if they make sure its not easy to haul a ton of stuff.
3. Don't run from fights. Most likely you'll die anyway, so try taking someone with you. Sometimes you might need to/want to run, but I really suggest for the most part standing your ground and fighting.
Anyway, I understand your feelings about PvP, I used to have them. I've found that there is more to it than 'some leet dood pk'd me and took my stuffs'.
Not trying to convince you to change your feelings about PvP, just perhaps give it a try, attempting to have a 'it might be fun' attitude.
I can not agree wth you more.
Pvp is the missing factor that many people cant see, or better yet dont want to see, just because their afraid of losing there items or losing the fight. Nonetheless it rocks!
Board games like chess that are thousands of years old aren't MMO's- but you bet your sweet ass they're PvP. It's been a core theme to mankind since our existence; and I'll be damned if I'm gonna let a bunch of trammies and EverQuest sheep bring about 7 more years of darkness to online gaming when they're already had 7 so far.
Hell we should rise up and attack these game's servers. Lol- that's actually pretty funny now that I think about it. What would happen if you just smashed everything and wiped out 7 million WoW accounts? I'd be laughing my ass off. I might do some time and owe some money- but it would almost be so totally worth it in a way.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
I think its funny how people act like gankers are going to be rare, or even uncommon, in an open PvP game...
there is a word for that, and its naive
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
Open PvP breaks the boring scripted framework and makes it a game for humans.
EQ, WOW, and so many other mmo´s are not human games they are just advanced chat rooms bringing you an illusion of a world where you have absolutely no impact on your surroundings.
Why ?
Because its a static world that wont change to your surroundings in an intelligent manner.
Does the computer brings any form of challenge when you know its nothing but scripted behaviour with no form of dynamic thinking ?
If you think "yes" then you prolly need a few more years in the scripted environment. Best example is Molten core raiding. If you find that funny and challenging then you prolly dont like the idea that other players can affect your situation in a negative ( Challenging ) way.
The illusion itself contradics its own stories
Why ?
Because you cant do any evil ! Its that simple. So no you are not a hero you are not showing anyone what you are made of, you are simply buying into the illusion that you are. Its playing FPS in god mode and feeling great that you finnaly killed the last boss.. Well DOH he cant kill you what did you expect ? we cant have our customers feeling like a failure, here have a new tier set item and forget the whole thing.. ( sorry ranting now.. )
You entered the world of safety there are 15495 players online, none of them can harm you in anyway and you are a fantastic amazing hero.
With Open PvP there is evil, there is consequence, there is a framekwork to show that you indeed are the hero.
UO in 1997 was a great game because it had evil and purpose to be thoughtfull of your actions. It also gave meaning to be a crafter, to be in a guild, to be nice, to be evil. And even to be crazy. Wether you roleplayed or felt like pissing off people it all made sense because you could interact with others.
Now you prolly think that i am nothing more than a leet dude that enjoys griefing people.
And you are right and im damn proud of it. Pwned OMG OMG HAX
J/K I just like the framework to be a tool for my fellow players to make my online life a LOT more fun.
Cheers
Makeme
WoW is just for kids and peeps who want simple easy gameplay no thinking and no risk so 8 year old and 88 year old can play it.
Darkfall is for those who wanne accomplish something they worked hard for but are not affraid to lose it ,hardcore open pvp world with a much more complex gameplay then wow,s casual carebear kids game.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Open pvp ganking will just kill the game. Basically because gankers need easy prey so they can 3v1 or kill some newbs many levels lower.
From my general experience the community will start off with players representing (just taking a wild stab at these numbers)
10% gankers, 20% hardcore PVP, 20% casual PVP, 50% PVM.
Then the games doom will start, because the 10% gankers/griefers will start killing the 50% PVMers and 100% of all the newbies. This will drive most of the PVMers away, and turnoff most of the newbies. Without prey the 10% of gankers will quit because they are too weak to actually kill hardcore PVP types. This in turn will turn off the rest of the players that are left because you cant PVP against yourself. Game slowly dies or changes to PVM.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Well you make some decent points, however I think this idea is a bit flawed. Here are a few reasons,
1) The person ganked is likely a newb player just starting, by the time they get experience or the necessary levels/skills this person that killed them will be gone. What are they going to do hold a grudge against every ganker that ever ganks them, how can they possibly remember all the names. What if the person just makes another guy with a different name. I suppose if the game attached all characters on someones account and allowed players to make a hit list by account so every person on a specified list name would glow, maybe then this concept could come to life.
2) You cant gank a ganker for various reasons, the main one being that they just run or dont put themselves into the situation. There is no 1v1 or 2v2 with them because they dont want a fight they might lose, thats why they are ganking newbs in the first place. They dont pvm, they gank, so they dont put themselves into a gankable situation.
3) The victims are likely not going to be pvping these people in the first place, thats the point, they are victims and dont want to pvp, yet are thrown into an FFA situation where gankers many levels higher and sometimes just plain better skilled are killing them and taking there stuff without remorse. These victims/crafters/miners/pvmers have no recourse. Maybe if there was something where they could hire a bounty hunter and the ganker if killed would lose everything in thier bank/home, maybe that would be fair, but its a bit unrealistic.
4) gankers likely will lose nothing if killed because they carry the bare minimum, even if killed what do they lose? Nodda, yet thier victims lose good pvm gear/items aquired.
5) Victims wont get revenge on gankers because the victims dont have the same type of behavior issues. Most of these gankers are antisocial little kids. Victims are not going to change their behavior and become antisocial punks just to get revenge on a few little kids. Usually they will either take it with frustration, or quit.
6) Games that have FFA style pvp fail pure and simple. Good example is Mordred/Andred servers in DAOC, both servers were popular at first but died quick deaths, finally they merged them, yet thier population continued to die. Yet the PVM equivalent, no pvp server has had a consistent population.
7) Gankers require victims but victims dont need gankers. Therefore games that allow the majority of the population to become victims will see that majority disappear to games that dont, and on top of that a side effect is the gankers will also leave with them because no victims = no fun for them.
a few things I noticed-
"The victims are likely not going to be pvping these people in the first place, thats the point, they are victims and dont want to pvp-"
why are you in darkfall? It is the basic nature of the game, seriously why would someone who cares about this play?
"Victims wont get revenge on gankers because the victims dont have the same type of behavior issues"
stop for the love of god thinking that in FFA pvp game there are good guys and bad guys, it doesnt play this way. There is no behavior issue! its a game, that goes out of the way to allow these things to happen, for the enjoyment of the players... If you absolutely cannot see yourself enjoying it, don't play it. I'm not being an ass, or trying to say there is something wrong with not enjoying that gamestyle, but why spend money and time in a game you don't like? plenty of alterantive games.
" Games that have FFA style pvp fail pure and simple"
games not intended for true PvP fail at being PvP games. if PvP is not the core of the game, it cannot suceed as such. The only game to take this on was SB, which is a poor comparsion to anything because it started off bad due to money.
I see posts like this and just think people missed what its supposed to be about.
victim- false word in a game like this, you signed up for the same thing the enemy did. Even non combat classes have to accept this when they are in the line of fire... remember your enemy has to have these types also, and your forces do the same to them- if it was something you could not easily recover from, the game would kill itself. In a setting like this, everyone PvPs, even if you do no actual damage yourself.
items- so you lost your item to a 'ganker'- so what? buy another. in a game that allows you to lose an item, the item no longer represents 1000 hours of your gameplay. If they were hard to get, the system would be self defeating and very quickly nobody would play.
non-combat toon- no such thing. A game like this allows crafters not only to be equal to a combatant, but superior. If crafters put the same thing on the line combatants do, and cant even defend themselves, they become a valuable resource no guild would want to be without. You get to put it all on line, but you get to know that no matter who actually killed your enemy, thye died by your hand.
Well you make some decent points, however I think this idea is a bit flawed. Here are a few reasons,
1) The person ganked is likely a newb player just starting, by the time they get experience or the necessary levels/skills this person that killed them will be gone. What are they going to do hold a grudge against every ganker that ever ganks them, how can they possibly remember all the names. What if the person just makes another guy with a different name. I suppose if the game attached all characters on someones account and allowed players to make a hit list by account so every person on a specified list name would glow, maybe then this concept could come to life.
2) You cant gank a ganker for various reasons, the main one being that they just run or dont put themselves into the situation. There is no 1v1 or 2v2 with them because they dont want a fight they might lose, thats why they are ganking newbs in the first place. They dont pvm, they gank, so they dont put themselves into a gankable situation.
3) The victims are likely not going to be pvping these people in the first place, thats the point, they are victims and dont want to pvp, yet are thrown into an FFA situation where gankers many levels higher and sometimes just plain better skilled are killing them and taking there stuff without remorse. These victims/crafters/miners/pvmers have no recourse. Maybe if there was something where they could hire a bounty hunter and the ganker if killed would lose everything in thier bank/home, maybe that would be fair, but its a bit unrealistic.
4) gankers likely will lose nothing if killed because they carry the bare minimum, even if killed what do they lose? Nodda, yet thier victims lose good pvm gear/items aquired.
5) Victims wont get revenge on gankers because the victims dont have the same type of behavior issues. Most of these gankers are antisocial little kids. Victims are not going to change their behavior and become antisocial punks just to get revenge on a few little kids. Usually they will either take it with frustration, or quit.
6) Games that have FFA style pvp fail pure and simple. Good example is Mordred/Andred servers in DAOC, both servers were popular at first but died quick deaths, finally they merged them, yet thier population continued to die. Yet the PVM equivalent, no pvp server has had a consistent population.
7) Gankers require victims but victims dont need gankers. Therefore games that allow the majority of the population to become victims will see that majority disappear to games that dont, and on top of that a side effect is the gankers will also leave with them because no victims = no fun for them.
Overall i think you have totally misunderstood the idea of open pvp. It means freedom to do what you want, be it evil or good. Its your choice. What you want is that freedom removed.
Let me answer each arguement you posted.
1) Newbies hungry for safety should not even play this game at all. The market is full of titles that has a static environment in order to keep players from harming eachother in a negative way. Your point is that new players getting ganked will leave the game very fast. I agree with you on that point. However those players should read the info on the game before they purchase the product. This game is intended for players who can deal with loosing their equipment and dying a lot dont forget that.
2) That only shows the gankers are not ganking for honor and glory but for getting your stuff or being evil
Do you expect to impose your own virtues on to someone who feels differently ? Its called freedom of choice.
3) Its a mmo you need to find your friends and not put yourself in a dangerous situation when you lack the skills. If you want to play alone and be safe all the time you should play singleplayer games or try one of the other titles like WoW, EQ2, etc..
4) Dont forget the element of surprise. Its true not much is needed to pk, however they suffer other permanent consequences compared to your temporary consequence ( death and loss of items ). What happens when 10 people stumble upon a lone PK ? they become the gankers very fast. It goes both ways.
5) Actually you would be surprise to see how many socially stable people become PK´ers. I do no consider myself an anti-social person, i have a good life with strong ties to real life people. Dont judge what you cant see or know nothing about. And yes i have been PK´ing in a lot of different ways. Have also been the Anti chasing the PK´ers its all good fun.
6) You are comparing 2 different things here and you are not making any sense with your point at all. DAOC, EQ,WOW has nothing to do with open pvp in darkfall it has more in common with uo in 1997 ( pre trammel )
7) It is true that gankers need victims that is only logical and victims do need gankers. ( its called adrenaline dont be affraid of it ) I recall my first time being pked i was so frustrated my heart was pounding and i did all the stupid things in order to make sure i got killed again... BUT DAMN .. i just realized a game made my heart go nuts and my palms sweaty. Only in open pvp do you get that feeling imo.
Its clear you have a lot frustration in regards to other players harming you when outnumbered. I understand the frustration i have been there myself but to sacrifice the freedom in order to impose fairness in war is a contradiction if you want evil to be stay evil. Yes you need evil in a game so that you may step out of the shadows and proove you can deal with it and even drive it back. ( killing a mob is not driving back evil )
Be a true hero and dont let the evil ways of gankers get to you.
Cheers
Makeme
In order to have a cilivized game here in Darkfall rules need to be implemented PERIOD!
Random Ganking no matter how fun it is for the person or group doing at the time. Is very counterproductive to the rest of the community.
There are very effective ways to curb this behavior.
1. Certain key skills should be alignment oriented once you pass a certain point the gods strip you of that skill (maybe temporarily maybe permenatly) as you are not deemed worthy of it any more.
2. Players can post Wanted tags on Gankers. This doesnt stop the Ganker from playing the game if they keep a low profile, but when entering certain cities he will not be given admittance (legally anyway) and once detect they are flagged for X amount of time or until they leave the current zone they are in.
3. Live GMs during peak times. Eventually Darkfall should promote high level/ high reputation players to become GM's that represent all three sides equally, good, evil, and nuetral. To hold Judgement on cases brought before them.
Faranthil Tanathalos
EverQuest 1 - Ranger
Star Wars Galaxies - Master Ranger
Everquest2 - Ranger WarhammerOnline - Shadow Warrior
WOW - Hunter
That's right I like bows and arrows.
Well Makeme I see what your vision is, however I just dont agree you can get there with those type of dynamics. What I think most pvpers want is just a fair / fun pvp environment in a fantasy setting. Much like an FPS MMO with swords/spells, where you can keep and gain wealth long term. Actually I think FFA in that type of game would work, but there are key ingredients that are missing in this game.
In FPS you basically are equal or almost equal to your opponent at minute you join. There are no huge level differences, everyone has basically the same chance to kill thier opponent, teamplay, skill, experience are normally the deciding factors. Not levels, gear .... If a FPS had something where you can just gank lowbies right as they logged in without penalty, what you would see is people would just stop joining that IP or game and never join it again. They would gravitate to fair games.
Your point 7) is way off IMO, its absolutely ridiculous to say people enjoy being ganked. Ya maybe 1 time (stress maybe). If you enjoy being ganked so much why dont you just run around on a low level guy without weapons/armor/spells? Why even level up at all just start a low guy and play it forever in high end zones, what fun it would be to just be ganked all day long without hope to win. Yeah I see alot of people signing up for that.
Also if being ganked was so great then why do games have to offer double xp, bonus items, bonus rewards, bonus everything just to get people to pvm / play in PVP zones?
ok i have to ask because ive never played a PvP mmorpg, played many mmorpg, just never PvP centered... i think that is what i want to try next tho, and this games seems like a good start for it. now to my question, instead of a level 50 being able to go up to a level 20 and just slicing and dicing him (which cant be much fun, or i wouldnt blow money on a game just to do that) why dont they make a game where both players, or entire partys must agree to a fight? ya know, walk up and slap the guy for stealing your kill or whatever, then ask if he wants to fight, if he does, kick his @ss or get your @ss kicked and your sword taken, if he dont, call him a wuss and get the next mob/item or w/e.
i dont think i would like a game where i am lvl 20 get killed over and over by a lvl 50 and all ive worked for so far taken.. but even maybe a justice system where super high lvl NPCs or w/e go out to bring this person down and return your stuff. or maybe have an ingame place where you can look up info on chars to tell how many times they have simply murdered someone, and what lvl they where when they killed a lvl 20.. this would at least keep people from trusting that person, or helping them, i know in alot of games ive played reputation has been very important... of course it could mean nothing in this type of game, im not sure thats why i need someone to reply to this so i know, gimme some answers XD.
So basically Eagler777, expect to be ganked over and over again while you are just starting. Not just by 1 player, but by groups of players. Just like in OLD style UO, as soon as you walk right outside of town dozens of players will be waiting for you and your newb friends so they can gank the hell out of them. Dont expect to be able to call for help and get other highly skilled players to escort or help you, because all the starting zones will be controled by gankers. The best you will find is someone pretending to be your friend but soon as you are outside they backstab ya and kill ya with thier ganker buddies.
Oh yes dont forget to join a guild soon as you join the game. Yes it will be difficult because you will have no clue which guild to join, and the good guilds wont even let newbs join them. Also when you do finally join a newb guild, unfornately plan for that group to be fresh meet for the gankers. Even if your newb guild, brings twice as many players to help you then the gankers have, the gankers will just call in thier long list of ganker buddies. I mean who doesnt want to kill an entire group of newbs and take thier stuff. All this sounds like so much fun.
Well ganking is not the same as PVP imo. I think what you are talking about is evenly skill/pvp/gear, which is not ganking IMO. Ganking is when the attacker chooses to kill people that they know have no chance of defending themselves. Im all for PVP. but what im talking about that is a problem is ganking. There will be newb locations where gankers will know there is no way you will win. If there was a way you would win then they would bring 10 v 1 therefore you still wouldnt win. If you bring the 20 people vs thier 1 you would be the ganker. Same concept really. Either way it will all be about ganking.
Its really too bad they cant make a PVP game where the majority of fights are even, except for skill/intelligence. Guess that concept is a pipe dream. Seems these developers either support ganking, or class imbalances, super classes/abilities.
I've played 2 other games where there is open PvP one is very similar to this KO(now known as KE i believe) and SRO. In SRO there was a nice system, you PK for no reason u become a murderer and ur murderer lvl went higher as u killed more people. If you entered a town u would lose hp and if u were outside a safe zone people can attack you and kill you w/o penalties which was a good system in stopping most people from attacking. In KE there was 1 main town w/o any PvP so you can get items from humans or orks or w/e side u want to get shit from. Everywhere else was an Open PvP zone, so it encouraged teamwork i saw barely anyone(cept me cuz i dont care if i get killed in PvP it just makes me train harder to b stronger) leave a town w/o a party or friend to help them if they got mobbed. There were tons of parties and usually you would see about 2-5 of them running around together, like they say safety in numbers, so if you are against PvP saying its anti-social then you dont know what youre talking about. It encourages teamwork more than splitting people apart. I mentioned SRO because it had a good system for preventing random killing and KO/KE to prove to the anti-PvP that it doesnt split ppl apart it brings them together and promotes teamwork.
But it is impossible to know in darkfall which player has a lower skill.
There are no level in Darkfall, there are no Name Tags in Darkfall. And you do not know how good anyone is, you cant see it at the equipment. There are no low level locations, or newb locations.
They spawn in the capitol city or some cities around it, but all those cities are also well visited from all other players, because there they can trade, get stuff, and so on and so forth.
Next point, Darkfall has a alignmentsystem, if you gank players all day long, you will become evil, and you cant visit the capitol city or be even near of it without danger. Other players will kill you, Guards will attack you, the normal good player get + alignment for killing evil players, and with good alignment you get some extra quests and so on.
And again.. there are no levels, as it was said again and again.. 3-4 newbs can kill a veteran.
Time is not as important, equipment is not game breakin, it depends just on your skill, like any fps game.
And if they bring a lot of gankers(evil players) near the capital city, i think you will see as fast as possible a lil war with a lot of good aligned players, which want to kill the evil guys.. and i also think such things can be really funny.
Sure every noob, and all other players will die a lot, no question.. it is a pvp game.