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What type of death penalty you think is best in a MMORPG?
Anofalye
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433
I know, many such questions in the past, just a poll for the fun of it.
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Comments
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All your base are belong to me.
Who got the idea to make an anime and a game based on an MMORPG, but not an actual MMORPG?
I believe there should be some penatly, but what it should be is different depending on the game and how difficult it is to get what you lose back.
I think we need penaltys to keep people from doing things they shuld not do.
Like in Paintball, I tell people "of course it hurts". If it didn't hurt, it wouldn't be any fun because people would just run around like idiots getting themselves shot. They wouldn't try to be careful.
When I am behind a log and lots of shots are hitting off of it, it keeps my head down. There is a certain amount of fear with knowing that it is going to hurt if I stick my head up and get hit. Keeps people from doing just ricidulous things that you wouldn't do if you were in a real firefight...
Penalty should always depend on the game, but a painful penalty is allowed, but death shouldnt be like it is in a UT game. Although death needs to sting.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
but penalty makes it more intresting or fun, like running for corpse, run Forest RUN!!! XP penalty sucks big time.
∙name: EViLD0G
∙clan: [EXE]
∙playing: EQ, SIMS, AC, AC2, DAoC, FFXI, AW, RS
∙planning: SoR
Permanent death.
I like the overall thrill and I like a game that makes me think and second guess what I should do next, or whether that uber mob is sitting right around the corner. Makes for a very fun time and a great sense of accomplishment when I reach a high goal. Ah, the memories of beating Hardcore mode on Diablo II.
However, I can see how some people would be frustrated in getting somewhat far and screwing up, destroying their progress. Fortunately, some games have cut that progress loss somewhat and are implementing an 'heir' system, having him/her inheret your character's possessions and being your new character.
Well, maybe I'm just nuts.
whoamg.
I voted on Experience Loss and Corpse run. I remember from Everquest how badly it hurt to die. I hated it. That is what kept the game so exciting when in dangerous situations. It wasn't like I could just try and take on anything for the hell of it and not worry about the consequences. I am in favor of permadeath, and I would have voted for it, but I like to play these MMORPGs with lots of other people, and there will never be a lot of "other people" in a game with permadeath.
I feel like there has to be a steep punishment for dying. I know that sometimes people can die because of unfair circumstances, but that is part if the risks, without a sense of danger and that scared feeling, I don't get much satisfaction over beating MOBs senseless. It is when I go into a Dungeon knowing I may never come out, that I feel that suspense.
When I speak of permadeath, I dont mean you get killed and that's it, your done for good. I mean you'd get knocked unconscious or something. Or maybe you'd be limited to a finite number of deaths in a period of time (one of the choices that seems like a good idea). There would have to be some forgiving aspect that would give players a chance and not make the game so difficult.
Also, incorporated into the permadeath idea I think there should be a way to kind of bring your original character back in the form of some skills, attributes, items, even appearances, and the name of you character. Someone brought up a very good point that I never realized about permadeath - once your character dies, you'll lose your name! That would suck! Well, all these things are in support of permadeath which I would like to see in a MMORPG, but I think we never will.
I like how Horizon's does death, with a point system. A few points, no big deal. No XP penalty, no corpse run. But you have a temporary stats penalty, and accumulate any more than 3 or 4 death points and you're suckin' big time.
I agree with almost any death penalty except corpse runs. Cause there's a good possibility you're just going to die again. That, and losing XP (potentially a level) is pretty dumb. I know, it's incentive not to die, but still..
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
exp loss and corpse run. I agree with death should have a penalty that hurts. It keeps the really bad players away from me once the game gets past a certain skill level.
I think EQ implimented death very well.
There is an article on nytimes.com .You can get the link thru everquest alka realm news page.
Basically it talks about the harsh penalties of old EQ,the fact that developers are afraid of the ganking effect in pvp,about why permadeath was removed from the jedi in SWG and the fact there will be no deaths whatsoever in MEO.
I do like that idea of the punishment graduated dependent on the number of deaths within a certain timeframe i.e. frequent deaths in a short time-frame results in extremely poor statistics - hence, time.
The most important commodity in MMOG's is time.
Whatever penalty is implemented, Risk should be consummerate with Reward. As much as EQ's death system was harsh (those corpse runs!) I personally liked the harsh and sometimes unfairness of the system. There were certain zones where if you messed up by just a fraction, you were looking at an ugly CR.
Whatever system is in place it should be consummerate with Risk vs potential Reward. That said, I might need to check out Horizon's death penalty system further. I really do like that idea - it's novel.
Regards,
Riotgirl
"she's like this cleavagey, slut-bomb walking around going 'oh, check me out. i'm wicked cool. i'm five by five'."
"If you think I'm plucky and scrappy and all I need is love, you're in way over your head. I don't have a heart of gold or get nice. There are a lot nicer people coming up. We call them losers."
Right on. I've said for a long time that time is much more valuable than money when it comes to MMOGs. I may have enough cash to maintain 30 accounts in 6 distinct games, but I still only have 1440 minutes a day, no matter what.
I understand the motivation of many game developers to try to mitigate the sting of death, but death has to be undesirable to a degree. If not, people will die willy nilly and then so what? If you've ever played a game of Pac-Man (or whatever) where you had unlimited lives, then you know you just turn the thing off after a while because there's no challenge. It gets boring if there's no potential for loss.
As flawed as EQ's death system was/is, it gave me some of the more memorable moments in my MMOG experiences. One time I died while swimming across the stream in Nektulos (I was a noob and didn't realize that the stream was loaded with piranhas). My body sank to the bottom of the stream. When I had to go retrieve it, my heart was literally pounding out of my chest as I gingerly inched down the stream bed, constantly on the lookout for piranhas, as I attempted to get close enough to drag my body out. I can still remember taking about 10 deep breaths after I retrieved it and was safely on the shore. Remember, this is a COMPUTER GAME! That kind of experience is rare nowadays.
I think that there has to be some motivation to return to the scene of one's death. In EQ, that motivation is obvious. In DAoC, you can regain some experience. If all that happens is I temporarily lose some ability which can be regained by sitting in a safe zone, I don't consider that to be such a dire consequence. There's gotta be some reason to want to stay alive and to retread that pernicious territory if one does perish.
By the way, it's nice to see you back among us, RG.
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Old timer.
Death is usually a penalty in itself. I don't think it's necessary to lower one stats because he/she died. It's weird when games have that a player won't lose any of the items he/she had on him/her because of looting, but his/her stats will lower. (And why am I being so politcally correct with he/she writing?)
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Give me your lunch money.
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Give me your lunch money.
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I hate experience loss. Nothing is a bigger turnoff to me than investing several hours in a game (deciding what to do, getting everyone organized and to the same spot, traveling to the hunting grounds, killing in the same pattern over and over again) and then because someone does something stupid or the group overextends itself (it happens) you end up back where you started. Or worse you have fewer xp than when you started the night.
I also don't think you should ever lose a level. It's totally disheartening and demoralizing, makes you want to just walk away from the game.
Corpse running is almost as bad. Kill me, strip me of my best possessions and weapons, then send me back to the same area I couldn't handle at full strength in the first place? And let's not forget that terrible percentage of time you ending up dying trying to recover your corpse.
That said, I do believe in fairly harsh penalties for dying. I like having to seriously consider the risks involved in a particular adventure. Knowing that real loss is a possibility really does add to the level of excitement.
I like the idea of some kind of social stigma being attached to death. These are large communties, lots of people, some kind of low level humiliation might be a good penalty. Maybe a number or icon (black cloud, black cloud with lighting, etc.) over your head indicating the number of times you have died over a certain time period. Of course the opposite could apply to successful hunters.
I think random item and money loss are effective. And not just what you are carrying on you but a percentage of your total inventory.
Permadeath is tempting...and in the right settings I'd go for it.
Littlemonkey
Think with your stomac nacho mind
Think with your stomac nacho mind
Corpse runs annoyed me, and kept me from getting past level 20 in Everquest... Eh
So, Gear Degradtion and EXP Loss works, and it worked in Shadowbane when I remember playing it...
EQ death penalty of the old was not bad in one sense.It made a dungeon crawl feel like a dangerous place to be and pumped adrenaline.
In old EQ you go to sebilis you dare not go too deep unless you got a good group.In DAoC people just hop with whatever they got to the deepest parts and there is no adrenaline rush at all.
Now why EQ old system was not so great was for the following reasons
1)Timer on exp rezz.Now if you die in EQ at say level 59 you lose exp which took hours to gain even with a 95% exp rezz.Now imagine not having any rezz at all thats days or a whole week's levelling gone!While contrary to belief corpse decay with items on it on EQ took a few weeks.So those post you see that oh I could not go to bed because I will lose my items is totally crap because you have weeks to get them.But the rezz timer was only a few hours meaning you could not log out till you got the body and a rezz.
And since in EQ you can actually lose your level it was a danger to even us level 60 chars(60 been highest when i was there).So basically if you die and its 11pm and have work at 8am ,you are in trouble espically if you die somewhere deep you need to get a rogue/group to get you out or a necro/sk to summon the body(have to go to the end of the game world to get the stuff to summon your body too) and then find a cleric high enough to rezz you for good enough exp.
This was a total pain espically if you die in some obsecure place.You could have a bad pull in a realtive low 40s zone as a level 60 and end up been ganked by 30 mobs.Now since high level clerics do not come there you are faced with begging in guild chat for one to come there.Not in a guild even worse problems.
2)Many high level zones in EQ are raid level.So if you are in a raid and it gets wiped you are in big trouble.It usually involves another raid party going to get them since such zones have high aggro mobs right on zone in.I can recall 2 occasions that we had to wait for another guild to raid the zone to do corpse's run .On one occasion it took a wait of 3 days!So thats exp gone for you.
I certainly thing danger should be involved to get the blood rushing or it would be dead boring but many a few adjustment to way EQ handled it.
Take SWG for instance,most players have at least a million credits.When they do pve(can't get gear degration in pvp) no one uses their expensive krayt guns unless they are mega rich.
So they use some 10k credit gun and armor that cost another 50k.They lose 1 percent degrade per death on it.This means nothing at all.You need wounds healed which is no big deal with so many doctors/dancers trying to be jedis once you walk into the hospital like 5 people trying to get exp heal you at once.So no downtime at all.Heck just pick basic medical skills and buy good wound packs and you can do it yourself.
So in SWG I never had second thoughts of trying any mob at all in SWG with no fear.In EQ my heart was pumping for even simple even con mobs .We place for exictement after all.
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Final Fantasy XI
Name: Rosencranz
World: Titan
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Final Fantasy XI
Name: Rosencranz
World: Titan
I voted for gear degredation only because i only have a limited time playing games, the last thing i want is my nights work undone by walking into something i shouldnt.
For me just getting put back to your bind point is enough of a punishment because that often means i spend most of my night getting back where i was. Running after my corpse only to die again, or losing my nights xp is not good. I get a rush going into dark tunnels etc because i empathise with my character and it is as if i am going down there myself, even if i got a huge bonus for getting killed it still wouldnt lessen this feeling for me.
I think it should be optional which death penalty you wish to face, this would of course allow for some people to have an easier time on the game than others, but if you want it to be hard then feel free to have it hard. This would attract more people to the game and help to satisfy most people.
Muahahahahahahaha
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
Personally I favor Harsh penalties but I must admit corpse recoveries while being able to be a mission of there own can get very annoying. Like when having lag or connection problems this can lead to Call of death syndrome where the player rushes to death over and over again. Also there is the issue of unrecoverable corpses e.g fallen through an gfx glich, down inaccessible mountain side or in an extreme server lag zone major mobs concentration.
Also it depends how you want our players to interact harsh penalties often lead to over cowardliness a general tends I have even seen often in no penalty systems. But as said before even none active penalty system can have hidden penalties like eg. Time it take to get to hunting area although I am no fan of downtimes minor or major.
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Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
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Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.