Originally posted by Vengeful Personally, I'd rather have a Trivial Loot Code than have jerkwads 20 levels higher than me zoom past me in a dungeon that is DESIGNED for players my level, take a kill that would have been ours otherwise and then sell then sell my item back to me for an inflated prices.
I'm not too big on gaming economies. I don't do alot of buying/selling in MMOs I play. But I do know that there is a major difference between real economies and MMO economies. In Real economies, there is wear and tear. Cars break down, shirts get ripped, couches get worn, plates break....yadda ya. If nothing broke in the real world, there wouldn't BE an economy...so the devs need to come up with some way of removing items from the game...and I just haven't heard any other viable alternative.
There was a decent Decay system in pre-cu SWG. There was PLENTY of things wrong with the economy in that game, but that wasnt really one of them. Was constantly buying new armor from crafters (the eventual addition of free space travel via JTL helped add competition and keep prices down) and even things like clothes and weapons would eventually need to be replaced. They eventually added "anti-decay" kits, and ultimately removed decay entirely to make way for their WoW-friendly pile of nonsense also known as the NGE, but i think a similar system could be used in this game to help keep the player economy going.
It gladdens my heart to see people who claim they want a challenging game come out and oppose a TLC and BOE items. If you are watching you will see the hypocrisy. A trivial loot code keeps you from enriching yourself by slaying mobs that pose no challenge. If you want a challenging game, you would fully support that. BOE items make you earn gear by having to kill the mob that drops it instead of just buying your way through the game. That also makes the game more challenging.
But the truth is, a lot of the self-styled l33t dudes don't, and never have wanted, a challenging game. They just want a game where their additional investment of time or twinkage from an older brother makes them much more powerful than anyone else. Throw a challenge at them and they run for the hills.
So let me say LMFAO!
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Originally posted by Vengeful Personally, I'd rather have a Trivial Loot Code than have jerkwads 20 levels higher than me zoom past me in a dungeon that is DESIGNED for players my level, take a kill that would have been ours otherwise and then sell then sell my item back to me for an inflated prices.
I'm not too big on gaming economies. I don't do alot of buying/selling in MMOs I play. But I do know that there is a major difference between real economies and MMO economies. In Real economies, there is wear and tear. Cars break down, shirts get ripped, couches get worn, plates break....yadda ya. If nothing broke in the real world, there wouldn't BE an economy...so the devs need to come up with some way of removing items from the game...and I just haven't heard any other viable alternative.
There was a decent Decay system in pre-cu SWG. There was PLENTY of things wrong with the economy in that game, but that wasnt really one of them. Was constantly buying new armor from crafters (the eventual addition of free space travel via JTL helped add competition and keep prices down) and even things like clothes and weapons would eventually need to be replaced. They eventually added "anti-decay" kits, and ultimately removed decay entirely to make way for their WoW-friendly pile of nonsense also known as the NGE, but i think a similar system could be used in this game to help keep the player economy going.
Item decay just isn't very fun imo. Sorta like having to buy a new car when yours breaks. Most people aren't too pleased about it. And though there needs to be some mechanic to remove items from the economy, you need to make sure that it doesn't stand in the way of fun.
Originally posted by Amathe It gladdens my heart to see people who claim they want a challenging game come out and oppose a TLC and BOE items. If you are watching you will see the hypocrisy. A trivial loot code keeps you from enriching yourself by slaying mobs that pose no challenge. If you want a challenging game, you would fully support that. BOE items make you earn gear by having to kill the mob that drops it instead of just buying your way through the game. That also makes the game more challenging. But the truth is, a lot of the self-styled l33t dudes don't, and never have wanted, a challenging game. They just want a game where their additional investment of time or twinkage from an older brother makes them much more powerful than anyone else. Throw a challenge at them and they run for the hills. So let me say LMFAO!
And then there is that. I agree with you. Twinkfest games aren't any fun or challenging, and luckily we're pretty sure that these aren't going to be the ONLY mechanics involved in the MUDflation problem. Will Vanguard solve the problem? No...but they are definately taking it more seriously than other games...and that's a start at least.
There are other ways to regulate an online economy. Just as in the real world (and used by other games) there are various otions.
1. Taxes. Used for years in FFXI Online. Of cause you need something to measure or quantify trade volumes.
2. Decay. Most players don't like this system. I never understood why, nothing in the real world will last forever. Of cause you can repair but it only prolongs lifetime so far. Very realistic and by far better than BOE. Used in Saga of Ryzom very effectively keeping both Economy and Crafting at a nice balance.
3. Monopoly. Just like in the real world, if Oil prices are getting too low, OPEC will simply reduce production to keep prices stable. In a gaming world this would be NPC exclusive items that are needed alot (like crafting materials, food for mounts or similar things).
There are many more ideas, Vanguard does not show any kind of innovation here, it simply implements the easiest.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Originally posted by taus01 There are other ways to regulate an online economy. Just as in the real world (and used by other games) there are various otions.
1. Taxes. Used for years in FFXI Online. Of cause you need something to measure or quantify trade volumes.
2. Decay. Most players don't like this system. I never understood why, nothing in the real world will last forever. Of cause you can repair but it only prolongs lifetime so far. Very realistic and by far better than BOE. Used in Saga of Ryzom very effectively keeping both Economy and Crafting at a nice balance.
3. Monopoly. Just like in the real world, if Oil prices are getting too low, OPEC will simply reduce production to keep prices stable. In a gaming world this would be NPC exclusive items that are needed alot (like crafting materials, food for mounts or similar things).
There are many more ideas, Vanguard does not show any kind of innovation here, it simply implements the easiest.
Vanguard's innovation is to the extent that they use multiple means of stabilizing the economy....including but not limited to:
Bind of Equip Bind on Pickup Alter/Sacrifice System Quests that require old items in order to create new items Trivial Loot Code
We'll see how they balance these together...it could work out rather well. Who knows.
Originally posted by Amathe It gladdens my heart to see people who claim they want a challenging game come out and oppose a TLC and BOE items. If you are watching you will see the hypocrisy. A trivial loot code keeps you from enriching yourself by slaying mobs that pose no challenge. If you want a challenging game, you would fully support that. BOE items make you earn gear by having to kill the mob that drops it instead of just buying your way through the game. That also makes the game more challenging. But the truth is, a lot of the self-styled l33t dudes don't, and never have wanted, a challenging game. They just want a game where their additional investment of time or twinkage from an older brother makes them much more powerful than anyone else. Throw a challenge at them and they run for the hills. So let me say LMFAO!
i agree with you here, Amathe (i know surprising huh? ) and you make a very solid point about people wanting easy loot by farming greys but yet they claim they want a challenging game.
personally, i want the TLC in...not just because of the point you made about the game being challenging. but also because i think in a game where there is no instancing i think not having a TLC in and allowing higher lvl characters to farm lower "grey" mobs hurts the community and economy as a whole.
if you have no instancing and you let higher lvl characters farm greys for loot then that will (for the lack of a better term) "cockblock" the players that are of appropriate lvl trying to do a quest or just trying to get xp or whatnot.
also it helps slow mudflation and makes the gold farmers life alot harder as well, and that is a good thing. IMO all the positives TLC brings firmly outweighs the negatives.
yeah its fun twinking a alt and plowing through low lvl content with the gear you have farmed, but so what? that is a small sacrifice to do without to make the overall community and economy alot better in vanguard IMHO.
Comments
It gladdens my heart to see people who claim they want a challenging game come out and oppose a TLC and BOE items. If you are watching you will see the hypocrisy. A trivial loot code keeps you from enriching yourself by slaying mobs that pose no challenge. If you want a challenging game, you would fully support that. BOE items make you earn gear by having to kill the mob that drops it instead of just buying your way through the game. That also makes the game more challenging.
But the truth is, a lot of the self-styled l33t dudes don't, and never have wanted, a challenging game. They just want a game where their additional investment of time or twinkage from an older brother makes them much more powerful than anyone else. Throw a challenge at them and they run for the hills.
So let me say LMFAO!
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Item decay just isn't very fun imo. Sorta like having to buy a new car when yours breaks. Most people aren't too pleased about it. And though there needs to be some mechanic to remove items from the economy, you need to make sure that it doesn't stand in the way of fun.
There are other ways to regulate an online economy. Just as in the real world (and used by other games) there are various otions.
1. Taxes. Used for years in FFXI Online. Of cause you need something to measure or quantify trade volumes.
2. Decay. Most players don't like this system. I never understood why, nothing in the real world will last forever. Of cause you can repair but it only prolongs lifetime so far. Very realistic and by far better than BOE. Used in Saga of Ryzom very effectively keeping both Economy and Crafting at a nice balance.
3. Monopoly. Just like in the real world, if Oil prices are getting too low, OPEC will simply reduce production to keep prices stable. In a gaming world this would be NPC exclusive items that are needed alot (like crafting materials, food for mounts or similar things).
There are many more ideas, Vanguard does not show any kind of innovation here, it simply implements the easiest.
Vanguard's innovation is to the extent that they use multiple means of stabilizing the economy....including but not limited to:
Bind of Equip
Bind on Pickup
Alter/Sacrifice System
Quests that require old items in order to create new items
Trivial Loot Code
We'll see how they balance these together...it could work out rather well. Who knows.
i agree with you here, Amathe (i know surprising huh?
) and you make a very solid point about people wanting easy loot by farming greys but yet they claim they want a challenging game.
personally, i want the TLC in...not just because of the point you made about the game being challenging. but also because i think in a game where there is no instancing i think not having a TLC in and allowing higher lvl characters to farm lower "grey" mobs hurts the community and economy as a whole.
if you have no instancing and you let higher lvl characters farm greys for loot then that will (for the lack of a better term) "cockblock" the players that are of appropriate lvl trying to do a quest or just trying to get xp or whatnot.
also it helps slow mudflation and makes the gold farmers life alot harder as well, and that is a good thing. IMO all the positives TLC brings firmly outweighs the negatives.
yeah its fun twinking a alt and plowing through low lvl content with the gear you have farmed, but so what? that is a small sacrifice to do without to make the overall community and economy alot better in vanguard IMHO.