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I just don't get it
Gravez
Member Posts: 249
When a community rep tells you that "they've fixed more bugs this year than ever before" (I don't remember the exact quote from Blunderheart), Smed tells you straight out the game basically sucks right now (in his postathon in March?), they have you playing a game that doesnt even have half of the systems they want to/should have in the game (expertise finished) for the release of the (NGE), GCW system, Smuggler system, heals don't work, double professions, maxxed expertise, mobs running/shooting through walls, etc etc how is this not considered a beta/alpha test that people pay for? They add/adding things they basically told you sucked a year ago: resizable radar, camps, 2nd toolbar, bleh bleh, yet people praise them for it, I just can't get the SWG mindset that has and does pay for this game.
The same thing was with the Pre-CU and CU, it had the exact same problems, BH investigation missions, I remember almost every mission the mark was stuck in a wall/underground, smuggler didnt even have anything listed in the underworld tree?, BH still listed on the char creation screen that you need brawler even into the CU, server crashes, 90% composite, uber buffs, defense stacking, not being able to master Jedi, holocrons to keep people subbed, the Combat Revamp carrot for months, saying they had 2 seperate teams for the CR and JTL then going back on it and adding the Jedi publishes 8 & 9?, totally stupid HAM system that Raph himself admits didnt work the way it was supposed to, the list goes on. I just dont get it how people pay for this. Was just playing WOW and it reminded me how a game should be when it is launched and taken care of. IMO it would be better to let the whole thing be put out of its misery and let someone start over.
There's a reason they sold 1mil boxes and only reached only 350k (this is with many people having 2 or more accounts (some people 10? another discussion), because you only had 1 toon per server, the game sucked. Everything was half finished or didnt work at all. The only good thing was space (which if you beta tested as an Imp you most likely rubberbanded over and over to moenia starport to get to the emporers retreat missions). The game has been and always will be rushed out to meet deadlines or LEC movie tie ins. Who ever asked or even thought about Kashyyk or Mustaffar as expansions? Play any other DECENT game and they usually have new things on thier test server for a month at least, and let you know what they're thinking about adding ahead of time. There's a reason for this, so you dont release a bunch of garbage, which SOE/LEC has and always done with this game. It is basically the laughing stock of the MMO genre, (go to any other game and you'll find SWG refugees or people who will laugh at you for even playing, or forums with any industry insiders where Raph etc. posts) yet still despite all this, people beg for a broken, half completed game or vehemently defend a half finished, broken beta test.
I just have to ask if this game didn't have the Star Wars skin/name would you still be paying for it (NGE) or be begging for the PRE-CU broken game?
For the PRE-CU fanatics who say the game was perfect please read other gaming sites/forums where your messiah RAPH says straight out the HAM system/combat didn't work the way it was intended.
/End rant
Edit: Removed references to other gamesites so the PRE-CU drama queens and whines don't reach there.
Comments
Two things that were great about SWG.
Innovative open ended skill based character advancement, and the best damn crafting system I've seen in a game yet.
Classic SWG > CUNGE
Well, I'll answer your question like this...
If another game came out now, that was just like PreCU, bugs, imbalances and all, and it wasn't "Star Wars", I'd probably give it a go for a while and see what happens with it. If the Dev team showed their total incompetence and utter disregard for their player base like the monkeys over at SOE did, I'd be gone.
Just me. I had fun in SWG. Yeah there were a lot of things that needed fixed, but the game was still a lot of fun to play I think a majority of the time. But when they unleashed the CU on us, well, I knew it was my time to go. And so I did.
Classic SWG > CUNGE
Well, I'll answer your question like this...
If another game came out now, that was just like PreCU, bugs, imbalances and all, and it wasn't "Star Wars", I'd probably give it a go for a while and see what happens with it. If the Dev team showed their total incompetence and utter disregard for their player base like the monkeys over at SOE did, I'd be gone.
Just me. I had fun in SWG. Yeah there were a lot of things that needed fixed, but the game was still a lot of fun to play I think a majority of the time. But when they unleashed the CU on us, well, I knew it was my time to go. And so I did.
That's a respectable, honest answer. It differs alot from the rose colored glasses people seem to wear who support PRE-CU and the NGE. I think the thing that bothers me is how SOE/LEC whore out the Star Wars name just to keep people playing/begging for classic servers just because it's Star Wars. They forget to see everything that is and was fundamentaly wrong with the game from the beginning. Even from a no star wars point of view. Would it be such a big deal a year later if it was Space Battles: Divided the sandbox MMO? If they released classic servers how long would it last? Do some research and you'll see the game was about to have it's plug pulled if the NGE wasnt done, which means since the NGE was a failure Id have to say it is done.
I personally don't think it should have been a sandbox type game to begin with.
I left just before the CU hit, the Star Wars name attracted me to the game but didn't keep me any longer. I'd been playing a year or more and heard the constant CURB hype alongside the JTL hype, and I suppose I just accepted SOE's word for it. When I got JTL and played it I could hear Han Solo in the back of my head whispering "I've got a bad feeling about this!".
JTL was a pile of rubbish compared to the hype, plain and simple. Only a hardcore deluded SWG fanbois that's drunk after a lobotomy could argue otherwise. I had pre-ordered it and it became nothing more than an a shuttle system.
Then the CURB hype started kicking into gear, and like you said we the customer weren't allowed to know squat about it. I had a conversation with Thunderfart that amounted to him saying "it's really exciting" and dodging every other question I asked with "I'm not allowed to tell you". When I heard that I understood it was time to leave, they had sold me a turd once and now the CURB (which I'm not meant to be paying extra for) is going to be a good thing? I didn't think so.
I gave my account to my Girlfriend and started playing EVE. My girlfriend took the brunt of the CU then the NGE before she quit, and it wasn't a quiet day when the NGE was announced. She went beserk asking me why these business people would be so stupid as to flush a good thing down the pan? I shrugged my shoulders and replied "Because they are idiots?". She now refuses to touch SOE with a barge poll.
SOE is good at betrayl based on a lust for easy money, Smedley is like a second hand car salesman selling broken down chop shop rejects. Some of us here were taken in and are angry at SOE and want to make their business as tough as possible for them. Those that stick with the game are hardcore Star Wars fans that don't mind being crapped on from a great height by upper SOE managment, aslong as they get to be a jedi/BH.
I see Thunderheart and Helios as stunt correspondents/Developers they take the flak for everyone else, and try and provide a focus/distraction for the communities anger. The bait and switch guys.
I came to the game because it had the Star Wars name, but left due to bad managment. No brand name is enough to make it so that'll I'll pay to be treated like scum and smile. May the farce be with us all!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I played at launch (got the game for free for doing my guild's website) got in afew days after I watched my cousin play. My guild of around 30+ quit because of the bugs, no content, server crashes when taking bases etc, after about 3 months. I think this is the case with many people. I came back afew times including JTL, ROOW beta and the NGE trial in Nov. There's a nice GU comic that has the SWG discs with a content not included stciker.
The whole CR (combat revamp) thing was a sham which many people seem to forget and there was a documented post with every TH response that seems to get lost in this whole thing. I had direct questions I asked myself he answered and he stated the combat revamp was all to be included with Patch 4? and every response to the problems with the game was the CR.
I don't really see Helios as a bad Dev, hes just doing what the market demands, but TH ito me is a total sellout who is one of the biggest problems with SWG.
Ok Imagine you work for a car company. This kid has been playing with matchbox cars from your company since you began. He idolizes those cars and no matter what you say there is no better car. So the ideal choice for your community rep would be to hire this guy right? Wrong. You want someone with different opinions, you want someone with objective ideas. You dont hire the ultimate fanbot when you have people who are in marketing that are paid to do that. When you have the ultimate fanbot as your hero of the people, the people dont get heard loud enough, because he won't speak for the people. They speak the voice of the happy customer. If something sucks do you honestly think he tells the people up there it sucks? No.
He can't comprehend in his mind to actually stand up (whether its paycheck or blind optimism) and say this doesn't work. So you have one conduit to the player base, the Devs obviously never played (because they said striaght out they were making them play), that is the consumate yes man. So all the senate reports, correspondent system is a total waste. What does this guy actually do?
Playing: Everthing
Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW.
I have played every MMO that has ever come out.
I agree and I think that is what was wrong with the game from the beginning. The game was never considered done or ready for release. I remember a girl on my teamspeak in the early days couldnt move because they lowered the restrctions on how much you could carry, she couldn't put anything in her house and didnt want to delete the things she had in her backpack? I had to log in her account and figure out a workaround. You still see this this today, you have problem A ok do this B, this doesnt happen in a game that that is 3 years old. This was on a patch day with no real warning from the Devs. The day the majority of my guild quit was when they went to destroy a neighboring cities bases and the server crashed due to too many people and that was the straw that broke the camels back after an untold amount of bugs/unfinished systems.
I think this is a more rationalized concentrated discussion about the gameplay mechanics of the current/past SWG than the useless things that are constantly posted here.
Playing: Everthing
Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW.
I have played every MMO that has ever come out.
The reason for the bugs was the apathetic attitude of the DEVs towards them. They talked about fixing them but never took action, and so the bugs just accumulated from day one. I never found content as a problem, with a good RP community there was plenty.
They worked on expansion/action packs instead of fixing bugs. Whenever fixing bugs were mentioned they'd start chanting the CURB mantra and about how that'll be the answer to all our prayers.
JTL was split into two (JTL became JTL/RotW) for extra profit, rushing out the first half before christmass. I remember before JTL many people were crying out for bug fixes and the promissed "Smuggler revamp" after all those Jedi publishes. What did we get? A whole publish dedicated to entertainers or was it Image Designers? I can't quite remember now.
The CURB turned SWG into an EQ clone, when that didn't help they had the DEVs programme some crappy WoW clone in less than 5 months. Please don't insult my intelligence and say "They had been programming it for a year", because only a total simpleton would actually believe that cock and bull story from the lips of Smedley. Why say "The CU is here to stay" if you're making the NGE? Because they weren't making the NGE yet. Also could anyone other than a rabid NGE fanbois suffering from advanced senility actually tell me they believe SOE spent more than 5 months programming the NGE before release? How hard could it be to remove 90% of the features and replace it with a Counter Strike combat system, that didn't work with twice as many bugs including all the previous ones? Then they spend the next year cloning WoW, all ot the expense of the playerbase.
Oh and why are they keeping it going? The 21/14 day trial (now outside the station) is an obvious attempt to fill up the servers for when they release SWG: Complete. The purpose of all of this (no we're going into pure speculation but not without evidence) is for when the PS3 is on the market soon after. Yeah I know tinfoil hat time right? Well Smed is a business man and he's not going to keep SWG going (low profits and horrific PR) unless he believes it'll make a comeback. The only possible way with next years releases would be the PS3 in my opinion. However we'll have to wait and see for that one.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I don't think anyone here will argue that the Pre-CU game didn't have problems. The game, as it was released, should have never seen the light of day for at least another 3-6 months of hardcore development work. LA was getting really tired of all the release date pushbacks, and from what I can tell, all but forced SOE to release it as is. It had lots of bugs, no doubt. However, the core of the game was outstanding. The free-form style of gameplay made up for the issues. Because if something didn't work quite right, you could easily find something else fun to do, or even a workaround until the bug was fixed. Which often was never, since SOE may be the worst company I've ever seen at fixing bugs. Their inability to fix anything important was causing a slow, but steady stream of players to leave. I still hold that if SOE would have gotten correctly focused on the issues, and actually fixed them instead of dangling carrots to appease some players, the game would be in a good shape today.
The issue now is that they've made a game for idiots, and STILL haven't fixed the bugs. They've dumbed the game down to a point where you can barely find anything fun to do in the first place, and even what you ARE allowed to do is buggy or broken. There's no more free-form gameplay to save the unplayable parts. Which is why the exodus accelerated exponentially after the NGE, until you're left with hardcore fans that would play a game that just involves staring at a blank screen as long as the box was branded Star Wars, a few pre-teen kids who aren't playing WoW, and simpletons who just like shiny objects.
As a side note on the SWG launch, it actually wasn't the worst game I've seen at release. I was around for the Anarchy Online launch, and I can tell you... THAT was a game so incomplete and bug-ridden as to be unplayable. That was an example of a game company releasing a game early to get money, so they could continue development. The difference was, they actually worked on the bugs in AO. It took a while, and it was a sleazy thing to do to your playerbase, but they eventually produced a really stable game. The SOE devs could never do that.
Yeah they'd still have a Sims game with a Star Wars skin which you and a handfull of people would like. I dont want to start a flame war, but I seem to remember you when my roomate would post on the bloodfin forums as someone who would constantly complain on the forums/create drama and then after the NGE come here and constantly do the same thing complaining about SOE but pay for a station pass. Didn't you state you just cancelled your account in 09-06? Yet you act as some sort of martyr who was crucified by the devs and senate, but you pay for a SOE all access pass? That pretty much makes you a troll IMO who just comes here to create some drama. Please explain to me how you are so into your cause when you pay a portion of the salary to the people you constantly complain about?
I just want to start a civil discussion without the "crucified vets of SWG" stepping in without any reason or something to say besides the same old rehashed PRE-CU arguement. I think if anyone looked they could dig up some past post history on you and see you as one of the very pro-nge people with your many complaints on the forums no matter how many forum names you hide under.
Yeah I dont think the game was bad per se, I just think it was rushed and I never felt the whole "Star Wars" thing. It just kind of popped you into this empty world and was like "oh heres jabba and you can get this stormtropper armor but it sucks", BUT you can have a cool house with star wars paintings and be a virtual stripper or sell drugs or be some mom and pop store to sell things. Just never seemed Star Wars to me.
I know there's different playstyles but that was mine and many of my guild's opinions. It should've been totally centered around the GCW, thats why I <-- and others think it never reached the potential. The bugs/rushed release were another factor.
I never once watched a Star Wars movie and wanted to be Uncle Owen or his twliek niece dancing in a cantina getting spammed for my myspace address.
SWG Team Mtg.
The Devs have never stuck with anything long enough to fix it or finish it. Well, until the NGE. Which is a framework that is completely inadequate to the task of being a MMO worthy of the Star Wars franchise. The irony is they went from two frameworks with lots of potential that needed fixing, to a framework with little potential that still needs lots of fixing and they think they've accomplished something.
SWG is the complete opposite of DDO, the other disappointing MMO out there that has vast potential but is lacking something fundamental.
DDO has what I think is an excellent core system, enjoyable combat system, mix and match class system (you can triple class if you wish) and allows for more customization than any other post-WoW MMO to date.
Unfortunately it lacks anything resembling a "world" being confined to a single city and instanced dungeons. They are starting to rectify that, DDO got it's first wilderness area just in the past week. But I think it's too late.
SWG has a vast series of worlds, lots of dungeons, lots of space and so forth, but is built on a crap framework, only token character customization, and narrow choices, and a combat system that is schitzo button mash mania.
It's unfortunate that DDO is likely to fail due to inadequate world and content, and that the Pre-CU SWG wasn't ever really given a chance. I honestly think that WoW is the exception that proves the rule. MMORPG's should be persistent virtual world games, that is what they can do that networked or standalone combat games cannot do. WoW is basically a glorified BF2 with turn based combat, orcs, elves, magic, quests and levels that runs off a central server.
With everyone else rushing to clone WoW (with their own little twists) instead of trying to be REALLY different, I am certain that virtually all the next gen MMOs will fail and fail badly. Will they learn from that and start to make different types of MMOs?
I doubt it, most likely the other companies will simply give up on MMOs altogether, or, try even harder to clone WoW...
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
But the irony is that if it had, it'd likely still be there largely as it was...
But the irony is that if it had, it'd likely still be there largely as it was...
Well I started another thread on what my visiion of a cool SW MMO would be. I just think something like that is what I was looking for. You have the "Uncle Owen" thing in the background but reality will slap you in the face when you see that it can't work for a mainstream audience. Give me WOW with a SW skin and I'd be happy.
Yeah but would you still be here mad about it?
Edit: Sorry half alseep in my past few posts.
The "Nancy McIntyre" version of SWG has managed to lose 150,000+ of them in just one year.
Which version of the game that should have been perfected and extended is obvious to everyone outside San Diego and Austin. There is nothing about the older system that precluded battlefields (indeed it used to have them) PvP systems, GCW revamps, etc. They didn't need to throw out the rest of the game.