Science in Schools

outfctrl

This board has discussed Creationism and Evolution quite a bit. Some of you have come up with very valid points.  The question is, What should be taught in our schools?

Both my sons go to private christian schools.  One in a Christian School, the other in a Catholic School.  The one in Christian school has a bible class and the other in the Catholic School has a Catechism class.  They both have science classes too.  My youngest says the earth was created in 6 days by God and that Evolution is not true.  My other son, who is older, questions that belief.

I have been out of school for many years, so I am out of what they actually teach.  What do they teach in public schools?  Does Creationism come up?  Is Evolution taught? 

Creatism: This teaching includes the statement that the entire universe was created relatively recently, i.e less than 10,000 years ago. This statement contradicts results of astronomical research during the past two centuries indicating that some stars now visible to us were in existence millions or billions of years ago, as well as the results of radiometric dating indicating that the age of the earth is about 4 1/2 billion years.

Evolution: Evolution is a valid scientific theory for the origin of species that has been repeatedly tested and verified through observation, formulation of testable statements to explain those observations, and controlled experiments or additional observations to find out whether these ideas are right or wrong. A scientific theory is not speculation or a guess -- scientific theories are unifying concepts that explain the physical universe. 

How do you teens decide what is correct?  Help an old dog here.

thx all 

 

zakk_

Tell your sons to make up their own minds about spiritual matters,give them any experiences you may have had as an example.



Learn what they can about the sciences wherever they are.

Theutus

I believe God created the universe and used evolution as one of his tools... No where does the Bible state one of God's days = a set mortal timeframe. If anything there is proof that declarations of "set" amounts of time in the Bible are ancient slang. For example 40 days and 40 nights simply refers to a long time not an actual amount of time.

outfctrl

but

What exactly is taught in the schools?  If they teach Evolution, do you get a student who questions it with his belief?

Flem

Back in my day, religion was not taught in public schools but things like Darwins theory, evolution etc were.

Private religion schools and Public Schools teach different things on this topic.

Zepee

At least here in Portugal they teach evolution.... That creationism thing(which to me is a big piece of cr*p, but anyway) can't be taught on public schools... I mean, they can't give christian education in a normal class... Now, if they have special classes like you mentioned, I would say its probable they do learn Creationism, or whatever.... Think about it:

Can a public school who has christinas, budhists, muslims and whatever othe religions teach christian beliefs in normal classes? I don't think so.

Gorukha

  God I hope you aren't naked from the waist down in that vatar outofcontrol

 BTW people, if you want your kids to become athiests or agnostics send em to catholic school.  Most catholic schools in chicago teach theology, which is the history of the religion , meaning facts, and not made up nonsense. It's a good way to realise how phoney the religion really is.

Nierro

Fun fact; The KKK were the first to propose that Creationism should be given equal time as Evolution in the classroom.

Oh, and Creationism is religion not science.



To answer your question outofctrl, most kids just assume Evolution is
the way to good because it is taught in schools. I read about both
sides, and came up with the conclusion by myself ie. The Myth of
Creationism and the Science of Evolution, by Andrea Skybreak.

zakk_

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Originally posted by outfctrl
but What exactly is taught in the schools?  If they teach Evolution, do you get a student who questions it with his belief?

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If your children's schools taught evolution it would be as an example of the misguided beliefs of others wouldn't it?

Theutus

I graduated from high school in '94. Having gone to both public and private schools all over the country I can't recall ever being taught evolution... may have been briefly brought up in junior high. I did however watch the discovery channel and before that PBS so I have a pretty good understanding of evolution.

On a side note I went to a public elementary school up north, and a public high school in the south and I have to say I was shocked when my high school seemed stuck on teaching me things I had learned in the sixth grade... So region probably plays a big part of whatever curriculum your local public school teaches... despite whatever the national "agenda" may be.

scaramoosh

I belive that whats living on this planet is all that exists, theres nothing outside of us like spirits and shit. Evolution is a much more wonderful story than god creating the world in 6/7 days w/e.

Everyone can believe what they want but one of these days there will be hard facts and we'll know.

 

Sorry but i don't believe how god can be true and if it was i wudnt want to believe.

 

Christians say big bang is wrong cus what made that? But i cud just say what made God?

outfctrl

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Originally posted by Gorukha
  God I hope you aren't naked from the waist down in that vatar outofcontrol

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I live in Florida.  I never wear a shirt around the house.

viadi

Sadly there is no science in creationism at all and the people that believe in it try to sell science as a faith or religion (maybe because they are so blinded by there faith all they see is religious faith in every one)

Science is not fact, and only a true scientist will say that. Science is observation and critical thinking. And all the observation tells us evolution is what happened and that no god came along and made us, We were never made at all.

I've seen on church advertisements "god is life" so in that context I ask anyone that thinks we were made if god made us and no life is possible without god then who made god?

On another note your son that thinks god made us please educate him into science of evolution don’t let dogma hold him back. I know we don’t see eye to eye but if ever you listen to me please let it be now

 

Awakened

Evolution should be taught because it's an important scientific theory.  Should it be deemed "correct and accurate"?  I don't think so, as long as it's understood that it's not hard fact, I see nothing wrong with it.

outfctrl

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Originally posted by viadi

Sadly there is no science in creationism at all and the people that believe in it try to sell science as a faith On another note your son that thinks god made us please educate him into science of evolution don’t let dogma hold him back. I know we don’t see eye to eye but if ever you listen to me please let it be now
 

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I use to have a decal with a fish and legs on my truck.  My son got upset.  He said "How can you believe we came from apes?"  I tried to explain it, but he said his teacher told him that God made everyone and Evolution is just plain wrong.  I swear, these Christians Schools brainwash our kids.  I have to admit though, the education is superior in other ways.

scaramoosh

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Originally posted by outfctrl



Originally posted by Gorukha
  God I hope you aren't naked from the waist down in that vatar outofcontrol

I live in Florida.  I never wear a shirt around the house.

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I live in England 5c

zakk_

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Originally posted by outfctrl
I
use to have a decal with a fish and legs on my
truck.  My son got upset.  He said "How can you believe we
came from apes?"  I tried to explain it, but he said his teacher
told him that God made everyone and Evolution is just plain
wrong.  I swear, these Christians Schools brainwash our
kids.  I have to admit though, the education is superior in other
ways.

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Children are naturally inquisitive.



They reach 5 years old and we send them off to school to be reprimanded
for any thought that requires an answer not in the text book.



Help your kids understand they need to decide for themselves when it's not 2 + 2

Gorukha

  Lets face it though, at age of 5-10 kids grow the most as far as knowledge goes. I prsonally dont think its time to confuse em with relativism and deciding stuff for themselves at such a young age. Obviously you wanna make sure the knowledge they are getting isnt complete BS.  BTW a 5 year old isnt mature enough or knowledgable enough usually to decide stuff on his own, something many "progressive" parents dont seem to get. They will have enough time for that in HS and the extermely liberal colleges we have in the US

FreakFace

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Originally posted by zakk_




Originally posted by outfctrl

but
What exactly is taught in the schools?  If they teach Evolution, do you get a student who questions it with his belief?

If your children's schools taught evolution it would be as an example of the misguided beliefs of others wouldn't it?

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yeah

bhagamu

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Originally posted by outfctrl

but
What exactly is taught in the schools?  If they teach Evolution, do you get a student who questions it with his belief?

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Disclaimer: I'm about to describe High School Biology, as I'm a Physics major and thus, I do not need to put up with that trash xP.

Hey -
No, this isn't how it works. In public schools, students learn 'Modern Biology' or 'Biology I' or some deviant of that name, which is very heavily based on evolutionary biology.
Evolution generally isn't taught as: "Man was created like this: ". That's what creationism is. Evolution is not acutally indoctrinated, but it's more drawn out as a corollary after biological classification and fossil record analysis.
We studied different types of animals in increasing complexity; we started with prokaryotes, then euk, working up to more and more complex creatures.  

Nobody in our class has said, "No, that's not how it works; I believe that God said x and y was created". Even if s/he did, this wouldn't be considered Modern Biology because that belief couldn't help you in classifying organisms and working with them and such.

outfctrl

My youngest son is 13 and my oldest is 15.  Its my 13 year old that is a hard core Christian.  Caught my 15 year old sneaking a shot of tequila last week while I was gaming......LOL. 

Both are hardcore gamers too.  Each has a level 60 in WoW...Oh, and my 13 year old had a level 50 Paladin in DAoC when he was 11.

 

tetsul

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Originally posted by outfctrl

I have been out of school for many years, so I am out of what they actually teach.  What do they teach in public schools?  Does Creationism come up?  Is Evolution taught? 
...
How do you teens decide what is correct?  Help an old dog here.

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I just figured I would repost the questions since it seems like most of you just saw evolution and creationism, then decided to use the thread as their soapbox.

When I was in school neither came up in any class unless you took biology in high school, which not suprisingly focused on evolution. Couldn't give you any specifics on the class because I hated it and spent most of my time either completely zoned out or asleep.

Not that I'm a teen, but I'm guessing they go by what they want to believe. Either choice they make is better then "ah whatever, pass the pipe."

bhagamu

In school, it's not really about right or wrong. Biology is not an attempt to ascertain the origins of man, but to explore the characteristics and function of living things.

Adreal

For the most part, I think evolution is taught in public schools. It's probably touched on in some private Christian schools as well, but mostly in public schools. However, creationism is not taught in public schools - none at least that I know of.

Oh, and Creationism is religion not science.

Creationism, alone, is a philosophy which is closely related to religions, but is not a religion. I'd have to say that the pursuit of truth in any form is science. Before anyone does, don't start labeling theology as non-science. Theology is the philosophy of critiquing religions; through it we can tell whether one religion is probably wrong or right when empirical evidence can not yet tell.

Murais

    I go to a Catholic High School in Massachusetts. You'd think they'd teach creationism solely, but no, they don't. In a science class (like say, biology), we are taught and expected to know evolution and evolution theory. And, we also have religion courses (Intro Religion freshman year, Scripture in sophomore year, Morality & Justice in Junior year, and the optional World Religions course in senior year), in which we are taught creationism as well.

    The funny thing is, even though it is a Catholic school, with a Catholic environment (We have morning prayer, and hold masses on every holiday), I don't feel like it's pressuring me. You see, I'm the only Agnostic at this school, and yet, even though I don't believe in Jesus, or God presumebley, I'm not pressured into doing so. During morning prayer, I'm quiet and respectful, but I don't say a word, during a mass, I listen to what's being said, and when the Eucharist comes around, I just say "No thank you" and return to my seat. In Religion class, I do my work, although occasionally get into a philosophical arguement with the teacher, and I listen what he has to say. It's a wonderful thing.

    The thing that alarms me though, is that I get the sense that you might be pushing your faith on your sons. That's not really a good thing. One thing my parents did for me, is they never pressured their religion on me, my mother being a Catholic, from a very devout Catholic family, and my father, just being somewhere in between. And I was grateful for it. I got to ask questions, and make my own decisions, and get a greater sense of self and self choice.

    If one of your sons is an avid Christian and enjoys it, then more power to him, he found a religion that gives him a great sense of self and fits him as a person. Christianity was a religion that fit with his heart. But, your other son, from what you have said, seems to question it, and defy it. It means it doesn't fit him, and if you try to impose it on him (force him into Church every week, etc), he's going to hate it even more, and even resent you. And all that is going to do is going to force him to become sneakier.

   I chose my school of my own accord. My parents never forced me here. I saw the brochure, and I said "I want to go here". I get a great education, including about Christian values, despite the fact that I don't believe in them. I don't resent any religion's beliefs because of it. Make sure your son doesn't either. Be open with him. Tell him his doubts could very well be correct, but that nobody knows, and that's why you have different religions.

   After all, you can't prove or disprove the existence of God, but you can't prove or disprove the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, either.

BlazinBlades

You mostly learn Evolution in school, I for one do not believe in Evolution, because it explains absolutely nothing, but I also do not believe in Creatists. I believe that everything was created by god. Out at sea in the dark of night on a clear beautiful night you will never see a more full sky, all the stares and the beauty, when I look up at that, I know that it did not come by chance, I know it was created by god. Brig it on down now.