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NO grinding please.
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Ha ha, you got me. Didn't notice.
You are out of your gourd is you think or believe WOW only has 20 hours of content. Grinding levels the fastest way possible is not "playing". Never was. You can spend 20 hours in 1 pre-60 dungeon, easy.
By grinding, do you mean repeatedly doing the same thing over and over again?
Like:
--repeatedly firing a gun at virtual enemies in an FPS
--repeatedly hitting a little green ball over a net
--repeatedly rolling a heavy ball down a lane to knock down some pins.
I think I've hit on something here. MMO "grinding" is not boring because of the repetition, it's boring because it is so predictable. There needs to be more random chance involved to make it more exciting.
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Why limit your choices to traditional level grinders? Seriously look out side the box at sandbox MMO's IMHO. EVE Online is great MMO if you have the patience and are social. EVE allows you do whatever you like when you like as long as you are willing to wait for skills to train up for a period of time. If you got the right skills you could PVP one day, haul cargo the next day from station to station, run missions the day after that, go out and try to find exploration complexs after that, etc.... On top of this you don't have to worry about having to play 24/7 a day to make progress on your character.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
You are out of your gourd is you think or believe WOW only has 20 hours of content. Grinding levels the fastest way possible is not "playing". Never was. You can spend 20 hours in 1 pre-60 dungeon, easy.
Actually, the funniest thing is that the poster mistook 20.3 DAYS for 20.3 HOURS. Minor mistake, that one. Anyway, given that, its shocking how little grinding WoW actually has - it really does have a lot of content.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson
If you like PvP. Lots of PvP.I'll wait for the vapourware trolls to jump up.
http://www.darkfallonline.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bYYT6Wg3Gg
leveling IS NOT enjoyable for many people.
i hate PvE with a passion.
Now we are only talking about semantics. What is called "rpg" today, often are hack-n-slash games. Diablo is the first of the kind and a ultra successful one. Story is immaterial, character development is about pure power, stats and equipment.
Apparently, hack-n-slash is also what people want. It is fun, it is easy and it passes as good entertainment.
Because hack-n-slash is a) so successful (and more so than the story-based RPGs) and because it is born out of traditional RPG (take the stat, the accounting, the equip, ramp up the combat and discard the story), it has sometimes take over the RPG name.
When the word RPG is used, it now often means hack-n-slash.
leveling isn't so bad when you have friends the same lvl, as soon as they pass you or fall behind ,is when it can start to get boring. Or when you are making an alt, and want to do a dungeon the whole "your not the right class" is the major kicker and also the lack of effort people are giving is annoying.
So for me it isn't so much grinding its more of a community that I dislike
MMO idea of RPG, grind on mobs, throw in some mindless kill task to create the illusion of "content" to meet the low expectations of the player, throw in some flashy lights when you "ding" bait them with an "uber skill" or piece of uber loot, and Shazam..an MMO - RPG is born.
Killing things has nothing to do with core ideas and concepts behind RPG's.
Its pointless to even explain it, do some research. With attitudes like that, its no wonder MMO's suck.
One of the best posts I've ever read here.
Ummm, you have it completely wrong. RPG stands for RolePlayingGame. The concept of a Role Playing Game is a game, in which you Role Play (act, pretend). You can cut out grinding, grinding makes the game system, not rpg games loool.
MMORPGs are no more actual roleplaying games than Final Fantasy is. Just because they stuck some letters in their name doesn't mean they are actually doing it right. You want an actual RPG, go get some friends and sit around a table. You just can't get that experience in any MMO on the planet.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
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Actually Cephus404, that used to be the norm. Plenty of people used to roleplay, with ogres talking like orgres, trolls acting like trolls, dark elves hating high elves, and so on. Everybody actually WAS their character. It wasnt just a game to get phat lewts and level to the end.
Sadly, that has been ruined once MMORPGs turned into hack and slash fests. Hopefully one day it will come back better then ever.
Yep. MMORPG's are about the journey, not the destination. Or at least use to be...sadly. But also, as Torak pointed out...they should be about the story/lore and your part in it and how you effect it. Not just miondless grinding to get to end game so you feel you've accomplished something. Wondering when we will ever see, or IF we will ever see a MMO that allows you to alter the lore and/or history of that lore within the game world through your actions/decisions made. Now they are all turning into glorified console RPG's, successfully rendering the genre extinct.
Diablo does, though, look very dated now. Part of the reason I enjoyed Dragon Age so much was that along with the immersive elements it could be played quite neatly as a party-based hack and slasher through its many dungeons. However, the hack-and-slash of Dragon Age is not grinding since you are clearing dungeons, not re-clearing them for extra xp. WoW on release was a combo of quest and grinding, I can remember myself and others grinding on mobs on release, but now it has become a non-grind level game, but it's an old mmo now and after cataclysm, preferably on a brand new server to get the levelling feeling again as a meaningful exercise, it will be gone I think. That really leaves FF XIV and SW:TOR as the mmo games to wait for in terms of a long-term gaming commitment. I think both will be heavy on the plot and immersion, that means very little grind, but for the good I think.
Not really. GW is a dull game where PvP is already content there is. I welcome traditional grinds in comparison.
heres a suggestion on a rpg with no grind and this i know from exp i've been playing Forsaken World made by perfect world and you dont get good xp from killing higher lvls for example i was lvl 28 and killed a lvl 33 and got only 33 xp now in order to lvl you must do quest and instances so you may want to check this out.
so u grind quests/instances
pretty much also you grind for mats to make potions and food, with on this game you will need to have both you burn pots like no tomorrow, they also have a skill who can raise the xp ammount you can get, but to get xp for it you need to make groups.
and really if you want a grindless game leave MMOs, all MMo will have grind in someway or other, be it for equips, mats to make equips, grind to make money or lvl, grind to raise your rank, grind to get achievement, hell forget about MMos, ALL games have a grind in some way, if you have a problem with grind better find another thing to do
I think the common statement of grinding appears when the player does not feel immersed witin the game world or his/her character. I played many MMORPG and have tried many, yet never encountered grind, due to how I play which is to immerse myself with the game and my character. And obviously if I enter a game that doesn't immerse me within it's gameworld or my character I thankfully have the choice to not play it, especially when I know more people then me myself and I are enjoying it and just leave the game, it's so simple.
I don't expect my character to wield the Sword of Awesomeness at day one, I know and play it the way that I need to build my character, just like it would work in real life, when I first entered a gym in rl I start out slow with less weights then I am able to push now. But it seems that many people want to push that top weight right after they start, same goes for MMORPG, when people keep using the same playstyle most games will come of as being WoW-Clones, and be heavy on the grind cause it seems to most it only matters how they can achieve the most efficient and fastes way to cap lvl and they for some reason feel end-game of cap lvl is where the game starts, and sure for some with a limited playstyle they truly believe endgame or cap lvl is where it starts.
If I would not want to build my character I play other genre of games that allow me to jump right into the action.
And sorry OP have no game suggestions for you cause I do not know you personaly and don't know what you would really consider grind as I heard the term grind in almost any game even if I never encounterd it myself in those same games.
It's all about a persons playstyle and not so much about the games, but we have seen with the years that blaming the game is much easier then actually looking at how a person play's it.
You guys know the problem of nowadays mmorpg? MMO companies try to numb you to play their game on a daily basis even if you don't feel like it. And it works. How many of you find yourself past midnight bored as hell still grinding to get the imaginary "rare drop" and you still keep going even if you haven't gotten it ever before? Well i can say i have found myself in that position quite many times. They give you a chance of something to happen and you keep trying to get that happen because you "know" you have a chance at it.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
-Albert Einstein
EDIT: Oh and for those who wanna play mmo's of today; More grinding, less whining
Sorry for bad english
Okay number 1. Insanity's definition doesn't even belong in your example, as your example is based on chance(a very low one). Insanity's definition is a principle, not doing something and repeating it over and over expecting different results on something based on chance i.e waiting for a drop to happen. You get very different results in fact nearly every time you kill a mob. You may get 1 leather, you may get 0 leather the next, you may get 5 silver the next, you may get all the next, etcetc.
Secondly, don't blame developers on your own personal issues with not being able to pull yourself away from grinding. I don't see why people don't just play the market and buy what they want instead of grinding for it, so much easier.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
That's how I feel when I am told to get X item from some npc. Say like 10 bat ears... then I find out that most bats apparantly don't have ears. Maybe them little tufted things on their heads get cut off by my sword.. I'm not sure. Or they ask for fur off these very large and very furry animals... and most of them turn out to be bald... shaved or who knows... Its like can I buy some rogaine and pour it over these things?
Now when I had to collect X amount of Insect meat so my Bio Engineer could work on my next genetic master piece... I waged a war that took out entire colonies of insects. Yet it never felt grindy... probably due to my personal "goal" that was involved in the process and the fact I really liked playing a Bio Engineer and creating things with it.
When i play mmo i want to PLAY not to PAY for something in it. And obviously you missed my point. AND a pc is alltogether precisely defined. You can't make an equation where same input gives different results everytime. So you can't make anything happen "based on chance".
You say developers. I say mmo games haven't developed one bit. More like copy machines to me. But hey we don't need anything new right? We can just buy what we want in da market.
Perhaps mmos are just not for you. Grinding of somesorts is in everyone of them. It can be fun and it can be a bit boring. The way you go about it is a big factor. Example grinding a area for a drop way past being bored. THat is the players fault not really the mmos you dont need anymore than basic gear for most things and if you are wanting top teir stuff you can just do the grind a little each week mixing it with other things making it less of a chore.