Realm Abilities?

logangregor

Im pretty sure that nothing has been mentioned at all about the possibility of realm abilities.
So logically everything I state is nothing more than wishful thinking, for now.

However I do realize that there is already mention of static points that you can change before fights.
Thats all well and good but so far it doesnt sound too hopeful that it will and of itself keep class's distinct from each other.

For instance, currently in WoW if you play a warlock there are about 4 VERY solid builds for pvp. If you play anything other than those four, your either tailoring your play to farming, pve or just gimping yourself. It would really be nice if there were RA's or other abilities that you could choose that would make your charachter that much more unique and suited to your playing style.

I know that some people care very heavily for the physical charachter customization in mmo's. Well for me, this is just as important, if not more so. I dont want to be playing cookie cutter build number 2 which just happens to be the most popular of the cookie cutter builds for my class.

Realm abilities like they were in DAOC, maybe modified to some extent, seem like they would be a very much appreciated extra set of abilities that would encourage individualistic class customization.

By the way, for the warhammer guys and anyone else that may not have played Dark Ages Of Camelot let me give you a brief run down on what Realm Abilities are. R

Realm abilities were spells or passive bonus's that were gained thru Realm Vs Realm Combat. When you attained higher ranks in DAOC you would earn Realm Points that you could turn in to buy Realm Abilities. Realm abilties could be something like "extra armor", "20 second run speed buff", "uninteruptable casting for so many seconds" or "added resistance", "added damage", "higher chance to crit"..."modified dex which lowered casting times" etc etc.

I admit even realm abilities for each class became a bit cookie cutter as people began to realize what abilities were most important for each class. But I still think it could be done RIGHT in WAR and make the game that much better.

bloodseeker

belive me they all want those realm abilities ... gives the game a purpose after geting max lvl ... u never get boored

Shaman64

I like the idea long, but sooner or later everything may become cookie cutter, as a game progresses, people gain a better understanding of things and soon realize whats best for thier character.

Ithuriel

I agree with above poster who says that, no matter how varied and well developed a realm ability system is, eventually a certain few will be viewed as "required" for certain classes and cookie cutter chaos will ensue.  I do, however, support anything in-game that allows a player to tinker with and personalize their character, in effect make it their own.  In my own experience, I get more enjoyment from mmo's where my toon feels unique, rather than just looking and acting like everyone else.

callmetoby

Yeah, I'm really hoping something similar to RAs will come into play in WAR.  You'd think something like that would have to since the PvP is going to be based on skill rather than being based on gear.  I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Oh...and L2poll  

eumenidex

I Love the Idea of increasing charicter customization. You'll almost always get the  from me on that kind of subject.

However, you have to be aware that, even if there are *limitless* options for charicter customization people are still going to fall into certain paterns in thier customization. Then these paterns will become common cookie cutters that are expected of people.

I don't think there has ever been a game with charicter customization that managed to dodge cookie cutter specializations for most(if not all) charicters. Still, even with cookiecutters being a likely inevitability, I would love for warhammer to have tons of customization and specializations options

logangregor

Toby, nice sig and avetar.

You know photoshop?

You are now my photoshop slave for now and all time.

callmetoby

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Originally posted by logangregor


Toby, nice sig and avetar.
You know photoshop?

You are now my photoshop slave for now and all time.

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Yes massa, I do ya proud.

Kyleran

My only concern would be how consistent are realm abilities with the original WH gameplay?

With DAOC they weren't constrained by an existing franchise, so they could develop the game anyway they chose.  But I would think Warhammer fans have expectations about how closely the game should follow the original.... and I have no idea whether they would object to realm abilities or not.

( I do know they can be an angry bunch when you get on their bad side or make a foolish suggestion or comment about the game or its development) 

Distortion0

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Originally posted by Kyleran

My only concern would be how consistent are realm abilities with the original WH gameplay?
With DAOC they weren't constrained by an existing franchise, so they could develop the game anyway they chose.  But I would think Warhammer fans have expectations about how closely the game should follow the original.... and I have no idea whether they would object to realm abilities or not.
( I do know they can be an angry bunch when you get on their bad side or make a foolish suggestion or comment about the game or its development) 

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Well, WH is mostly a table-top game. Unites don't really level up or advance unless you count heroes and wizards(Which only have three levels). I don't know how WHRP works but I don't think there's any conflicting lore. I don't see how an Orc using his Faction Points to buy the "thick hide" skill would break lore(other than the fact that both 'thick' and 'hide' are spelled in proper English.)

mjkittredge

Honestly, I loved the powers of realm abilities but hated the process of getting them. The amount of time it takes to get them is ridiculous, especially if your character is not powerful and groups aren't plentiful, or if the other 2 realms are well organized and moving in large numbers. The amount of time it took me to get 3 measly points in Thidranki, was painful to say the least. I could have gained a dozen levels if I went straight PVE with that chunk of time. But I wanted mastery of pain (increased crit chance) so badly. A great prize, but so much annoying work to get it. I don't like abilities where the only way to get it is through unbalanced pvp.

IMO WOW had a much better balanced battleground experience, and though there were no realm points, the item rewards gained from increased faction/pvp rank were a nice reward, and even if you lost every battleground you could still get the rewards eventually, there was no time wasted even if your char was gimp and your pug sucked ass. At least there was a system that only rarely and briefly allowed an imbalance in numbers, and that could improve part way through if more people joined. In DAOC, you could spend fruitless hours dicking around in battlegrounds getting your ass kicked, your group stomped and nothing to show for it. There could be 30 Hibernians, 20 Albions, and 10 Midgard players, and if you were midgard, well too bad sonny, guess you aren't getting any points tonight.

SO, in closing, take the faction/xp/pvp rank system of WOW battlegrounds and use it to get DAOC like Realm Abilities, so they can be for everyone, not just the realm that has more players, not just for those who have uber epic items and years of experience.

newbinator

I'm willing to bet my soul that WAR will have some form of realm point/realm ability system. It's one of the best features of DAOC and Mythic knows that  

newbinator

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Originally posted by mjkittredge

 
SO, in closing, take the faction/xp/pvp rank system of WOW

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Better yet look at how WOW did PvP and then do it exactly opposite for WAR please, kthx. I don't mind if they copy the PvE from WOW, that's the one thing Blizz did right, but IMO they did just about everything wrong regarding the PvP system.

mjkittredge

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Originally posted by newbinator



Originally posted by mjkittredge

 
SO, in closing, take the faction/xp/pvp rank system of WOW

Better yet look at how WOW did PvP and then do it exactly opposite for WAR please, kthx. I don't mind if they copy the PvE from WOW, that's the one thing Blizz did right, but IMO they did just about everything wrong regarding the PvP system.

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I think you're massively misunderstanding me here. Take from WOW the part of the system where even if you lose, you get some progress towards your goals, so it's not all wasted time some days like the DAOC system. Have the battleground pvp numbers balancing format so it's not 30 vs 10 or worse like Thidranki or whatnot. That's all.

WOW style PVP itself, thats not what I'm advocating. Just a better system to get Realm Points than was seen in DAOC. Have it be a system where everyone could succeed, not just those with the best equipped, best PVP characters on the side with the highest population.

logangregor

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Originally posted by mjkittredge
Honestly, I loved the powers of realm abilities but hated the process of getting them. The amount of time it takes to get them is ridiculous, especially if your character is not powerful and groups aren't plentiful, or if the other 2 realms are well organized and moving in large numbers. The amount of time it took me to get 3 measly points in Thidranki, was painful to say the least. I could have gained a dozen levels if I went straight PVE with that chunk of time.
I respect your opinion but Im still a bit shocked. You think thid wasnt fun?
You understand that out of every daoc player Ive EVER known your the only one to say that.
And who cares how many levels you could of got in pve with that ammount of time.
PVE SUCKS. RVR IS FUN.
Games that I enjoy playing ARENT about getting max level, they ARE about having fun.
As long as your having fun, who cares. And seriously, if you didnt have fun in DAOC in THID no less....why are you even bothering to play warhammer. THID pvp was DAOC at its best in many ways. I agree it could also be a bit zergy and laggy but thid was a whole lot of fun. Capping rp's in thid Good times But I wanted mastery of pain (increased crit chance) so badly. A great prize, but so much annoying work to get it. I don't like abilities where the only way to get it is through unbalanced pvp. Daoc was not ubalanced pvp. It was group pvp. If you had even a decent group, the pvp was always balanced. I dont care what realm you played and what aoe mez you had to endure, most of daocs pvp was balanced. WoW's pvp as it stands now has nothing to do with the group and everything to do about the player. Its the most selfish pvp I have ever experienced. Do you know how often morons break my seduce in pvp? I realize its pug groups but a pug group in a daoc bg could kick some serious ass. And if you broke someones mez before you were supposed to, you would get many a nasty tell. In wow people are ok with other people playing like complete morons. The best example of PvP team work in WoW is a priest healing a overpowered geared out warrior. IMO WOW had a much better balanced battleground experience, and though there were no realm points, the item rewards gained from increased faction/pvp rank were a nice reward, and even if you lost every battleground you could still get the rewards eventually, there was no time wasted even if your char was gimp and your pug sucked ass.WoWs pvp much better....hmmm...not exactly. If you like the way WoW is and you see no imbalance in Alterac valley or Gear dependency your missing something. Ive went for the honor grind with a farm team that wiped the floor with everything we came up against, and it was indeed a BORING GRIND. Give me the bgs of daoc or Full Blown RvR in daoc anytime over the honor grind. At least there was a system that only rarely and briefly allowed an imbalance in numbers, and that could improve part way through if more people joined. In DAOC, you could spend fruitless hours dicking around in battlegrounds getting your ass kicked, your group stomped and nothing to show for it. There could be 30 Hibernians, 20 Albions, and 10 Midgard players, and if you were midgard, well too bad sonny, guess you aren't getting any points tonight.SO, in closing, take the faction/xp/pvp rank system of WOW battlegrounds and use it to get DAOC like Realm Abilities, so they can be for everyone, not just the realm that has more players, not just for those who have uber epic items and years of experience. The faction pvp xp system of WoW's battlegrounds are flawed. You know how long it would take to get exalted in Warsong if you lost every time? Do you think coming up against a farm team is anything close to fair? Do you realize how much time you have to put in to become high warlord, week after week, month after month?
This isnt a bash wow reply either, let me make it clear that I still play wow. I think for the most part its fun. But I also see some serious flaws everytime I play. Obviously you dont see the same thing I do, because your advocating a system that you beleive to be Great. I perceive that system to be broke at best.

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mjkittredge

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Originally posted by logangregor




Originally posted by mjkittredge
Honestly, I loved the powers of realm abilities but hated the process of getting them. The amount of time it takes to get them is ridiculous, especially if your character is not powerful and groups aren't plentiful, or if the other 2 realms are well organized and moving in large numbers. The amount of time it took me to get 3 measly points in Thidranki, was painful to say the least. I could have gained a dozen levels if I went straight PVE with that chunk of time.


I respect your opinion but Im still a bit shocked. You think thid wasnt fun?
You understand that out of every daoc player Ive EVER known your the only one to say that.
And who cares how many levels you could of got in pve with that ammount of time.
PVE SUCKS. RVR IS FUN.
Games that I enjoy playing ARENT about getting max level, they ARE about having fun.
As long as your having fun, who cares.
And seriously, if you didnt have fun in DAOC in THID no less....why are you even bothering to play warhammer. THID pvp was DAOC at its best in many ways. I agree it could also be a bit zergy and laggy but thid was a whole lot of fun. Capping rp's in thid Good times
 
But I wanted mastery of pain (increased crit chance) so badly. A great prize, but so much annoying work to get it. I don't like abilities where the only way to get it is through unbalanced pvp.
Daoc was not ubalanced pvp. It was group pvp. If you had even a decent group, the pvp was always balanced. I dont care what realm you played and what aoe mez you had to endure, most of daocs pvp was balanced.
WoW's pvp as it stands now has nothing to do with the group and everything to do about the player. Its the most selfish pvp I have ever experienced. Do you know how often morons break my seduce in pvp? I realize its pug groups but a pug group in a daoc bg could kick some serious ass. And if you broke someones mez before you were supposed to, you would get many a nasty tell. In wow people are ok with other people playing like complete morons. The best example of PvP team work in WoW is a priest healing a overpowered geared out warrior.
IMO WOW had a much better balanced battleground experience, and though there were no realm points, the item rewards gained from increased faction/pvp rank were a nice reward, and even if you lost every battleground you could still get the rewards eventually, there was no time wasted even if your char was gimp and your pug sucked ass.
WoWs pvp much better....hmmm...not exactly. If you like the way WoW is and you see no imbalance in Alterac valley or Gear dependency your missing something. Ive went for the honor grind with a farm team that wiped the floor with everything we came up against, and it was indeed a BORING GRIND. Give me the bgs of daoc or Full Blown RvR in daoc anytime over the honor grind.
At least there was a system that only rarely and briefly allowed an imbalance in numbers, and that could improve part way through if more people joined. In DAOC, you could spend fruitless hours dicking around in battlegrounds getting your ass kicked, your group stomped and nothing to show for it. There could be 30 Hibernians, 20 Albions, and 10 Midgard players, and if you were midgard, well too bad sonny, guess you aren't getting any points tonight.
SO, in closing, take the faction/xp/pvp rank system of WOW battlegrounds and use it to get DAOC like Realm Abilities, so they can be for everyone, not just the realm that has more players, not just for those who have uber epic items and years of experience.
The faction pvp xp system of WoW's battlegrounds are flawed. You know how long it would take to get exalted in Warsong if you lost every time? Do you think coming up against a farm team is anything close to fair? Do you realize how much time you have to put in to become high warlord, week after week, month after month?

This isnt a bash wow reply either, let me make it clear that I still play wow. I think for the most part its fun. But I also see some serious flaws everytime I play. Obviously you dont see the same thing I do, because your advocating a system that you beleive to be Great. I perceive that system to be broke at best.

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The problems I had with Thid and all DAOC pvp were Number of players imbalance (30 vs 10 was common) making progression extremely difficult if not impossible, SOME pvp imbalance (you mentioned mezz, add to that casters getting a mile with their spell range), and the fact you could fight hard, but if you or your group didn't kill anybody you got absolutely nothing for your effort. Everybody hates overwhelming odds and wasted time.

I'm not advocating WOW pvp mechanics, but the reward system, faction and pvp rank, perhaps a bit sped up. I know it would take forever to gain faction and rank losing every single battleground, but at least you got one mark and some honor points. If you make a valiant effort and come up a little short it's still worth something besides a moral victory.

One thing I would advocate is WOWs smoother interface and UI and movement, and how if you clicked on another player in the distance it would actually target them (I had massive trouble targetting people in DAOC, my connection was a stable 10mpbs, I'd click on an enemy player, it wouldn't target them, no lag that I could notice otherwise. WTF?)

I'm not endorsing all of WOW as great, nope. Good but flawed in many ways. DAOC had potential, I suppose if I made a character on a side like Hibernia with tons more people than the other realms, and picked a class with AOE mezz and super long range attacks, I'd love their system. And if the targetting was a bit more accurate.

In closing, As far as WAR is concerned, I'm hoping they can stagger it so it's not one side almost always being outnumbered and zero rewards always for the losers.

Vegetta

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Originally posted by newbinator
Originally posted by mjkittredge

SO, in closing, take the faction/xp/pvp rank system of WOW

Better yet look at how WOW did PvP and then do it exactly opposite for WAR please, kthx. I don't mind if they copy the PvE from WOW, that's the one thing Blizz did right, but IMO they did just about everything wrong regarding the PvP system.

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Amen to that

logangregor

Yeah I agree there were problems with daoc.
This has sort of been discussed before on another thread but Im all for the smooth gameplay that WoW has to offer.

I trust that Mythic will do it right.