LOTRO is ok at best.

franksalbe

Let's stay focused people.

1. The time frame they choose to set the game in was a HORRIBLE pick. They have to limit content and the extent of accomplishment that can be done in game so that it doesnt interfere with the periods history.

Turbine should have been smarter they should have taking the game pre-LOTR era. as far back as the Simarillion timeframe when you had so much more going in the world. This was the time of high adventure. Not at the end of an era.

Or they should have taken it post-LOTR era. Where they would have free reigns once again to create new history. something like 30 years after the LOTR incidents would have been good. You could have all set out for fresh new adventures.

2. The fact that they actually took the time to make classes from the warrior and thief tree is down right silly. and the lore master ... LOL ok i wont even go there. Since you cant really do PVP in LOTRO it was perfect for a skill tree implimentation. This game could have so benefitted from a Skill Tree progression. This is one of the few games that because the story line hinders the use of standard PVP practice. We could have been given freedom to mix  and match skills as we see fit. You could still choose to follow a specific skill tree to earn a profession or become any mix of talents. I feel Turbine missed the ball on this one Big Time.

 

these 2 reasons alone make it ok at best. A WOW killer not even close. At best they might hit Eq2 numbers in terms of subs. I dont see them hitting the 1 million mark not time soon if at all. Which is kinda sad for such a large IP. sigh.

qotsa

1. Right, because that's what would help them sell more copies. That would be like someone making a Star Wars game and picking an era that Jedi were rare. Then they could just trash the lore later on down the road, just to make more money. I don't disagree with picking a different era. I just hope you know they pick the one that will look best on the box.

"Set 30 years before anything most people know"

"Have coffee with the White Wizard, Dance with Frodo and hunt n00bs with Gollum, just like in the movies."

franksalbe

The IP alone no matter what era would have sold, and LOL your right you think Game Developers would keep track of each other. You already saw the nonsense that occurred in SWG... What in Gaming sakes would make you want to make the same MISTAKE. I hear you on that brother i understand that Turbine is a corporation and a coroporation sole purpose is to turn a profit.

But sometimes corporations are short sited. Sure choosing the most popular timeline would create the best result quickly, but just as quickly as it would sell it will quickly die out because you cant do anything with the IP. You are stuck in this period that can never grow really. Which is the worst type of product one that is stagnant.

franksalbe

HMMM that got me thinking. You Think Turbine towards the end of 07 when the game is not doing as it should will do an NGE change as well and introduce the  class of semi-wizard... LOL

sly220

---

Originally posted by franksalbe
HMMM that got me thinking. You Think Turbine towards the end of 07 when the game is not doing as it should will do an NGE change as well and introduce the  class of semi-wizard... LOL

---

 

HAHAH prolly

Ryowulf

You might have been able to set it after the ring's end, but then you'd
have even a bigger problem explaining why elves are still around.



Setting it before, while allowing you to have more open lore, makes it to alien for the average player.



They want to go mass market. In order to do that you have to set the world in a time that people know.



Look at the hulk moive. How many people, including reviewers were
flipping out because the only 'hulk' they knew about was from the tv
show.



Also keep in mind you have to sell your idea to backers.



The sad thing is, players who would have gotten why it was pre-lotr,
are they same ones would who have stuck around and made a community.
They ar also the ones who are playing just because its the lotr world
no matter the time frame, but they are a minority.

The others only think they want it set during lotr, once they figure
out they can't be Frodo or Gandulf they lose interest and leave.



They best thing to do is make a game that is fun and interesting and
set it (if based on a book or movie) in a time that supports these
things. It might never be Wow, but it will have a solid and steady base
of players.



Lotro is not going forward, but rather lateral. They are going to make
the world bigger, but still locked within that small time frame. What
does that really offer players who stay with the game? Sure 3 years
down the road new players will love how big the world is, but at some
point even they will ask, "okay I have seen a lot of the world and
helped with the war efforts...so when does the ring fall into Mount
Doom?"

At least with SWG is was a sandbox, so you could sort of make your own history.

Teiraa

Yes, judged from the SWG debacle, it would really have wiser to choose a time frame distant from the LOTR events (either in the future or the past), just to get more freedom.

BUT--- Turbine had no choice, since they only got a license for the LOTR books, and not for the Silmarrilon or other stuff.

As for the wizards, the lore master class feels pretty much an int-caster, while the minstrel is a healer, so they actually did a good job to plan for standard RPG classes while still remaining close to the LOTR lore.

Whether LOTRO will be a success or not remains to be seen. I do hope that it will be a good game, as I hope that every new game will be a good one, since it gives more choices for us players.

Billius8

I agree with the O.P.  Maybe setting the game 50 years before the events of LOTR would have been optimal. 

Remember, this is a game about the player adventurers, not Aragorn, Frodo and Gandalf (with the players hanging out in the background and standing in their shadows or holding up the tails of their robes).

RK-Mara

Have you ever heard of expacks? Turbine has license for all ages and they might make expacks which are placed in other ages.

Ryowulf

---

Originally posted by Billius8
I agree with the O.P.  Maybe setting the game 50 years before the events of LOTR would have been optimal.  Remember,
this is a game about the player adventurers, not Aragorn, Frodo and
Gandalf (with the players hanging out in the background and standing in
their shadows or holding up the tails of their robes).

---

Naw
like I said they couldn't do that. If they were making the game for
gamers they might, but why use lotr, if not to draw fans to the game?
Its a catch 22. Setting it during the books brings people, but its that
same setting which also will drive people away.

Beldwyn

---

Originally posted by RK-Mara
Turbine has license for all ages and they might make expacks which are placed in other ages.

---

No they dont, they have the license to make a game about the Hobbit and the LotR trilogy, the Silmarillion and those books is heavely guarded by Cristopher Tolkien who has made it clear that he wont let go of that license for anything. The license for the The Hobbit and the LotR trilogy was sold to Tolkien Enterprises (which has very little contact with the Tolkien Estate) by Tolkien himself when he was in a big debt, which I guess we should be happy for seeing as how that made the movies possible. Apparently CT disowned his own son for being involved with the movies.

I can see CTs point tho, seeing what EA did to the lore.

nthnaoun

---

Originally posted by franksalbe

Let's stay focused people.
1. The time frame they choose to set the game in was a HORRIBLE pick. They have to limit content and the extent of accomplishment that can be done in game so that it doesnt interfere with the periods history.
Turbine should have been smarter they should have taking the game pre-LOTR era. as far back as the Simarillion timeframe when you had so much more going in the world. This was the time of high adventure. Not at the end of an era.
Or they should have taken it post-LOTR era. Where they would have free reigns once again to create new history. something like 30 years after the LOTR incidents would have been good. You could have all set out for fresh new adventures.
 
2. The fact that they actually took the time to make classes from the warrior and thief tree is down right silly. and the lore master ... LOL ok i wont even go there. Since you cant really do PVP in LOTRO it was perfect for a skill tree implimentation. This game could have so benefitted from a Skill Tree progression. This is one of the few games that because the story line hinders the use of standard PVP practice. We could have been given freedom to mix  and match skills as we see fit. You could still choose to follow a specific skill tree to earn a profession or become any mix of talents. I feel Turbine missed the ball on this one Big Time.
 
these 2 reasons alone make it ok at best. A WOW killer not even close. At best they might hit Eq2 numbers in terms of subs. I dont see them hitting the 1 million mark not time soon if at all. Which is kinda sad for such a large IP. sigh.

---

Mentioning PvP several times and also mentioning WoW-killer kind of dis-credits your post. A game doesn't need to kill WoW to be successful and neither should that be a goal. Look at the maturity level of the WoW community to see why. A game also doesn't need to be PvP to be fun, but that is subjective, which is why it should have been left out of your post.

But the idea of being in a seperate time-line and the skill system I agree with. They pride themselves so much on sticking to the lore, but the class system defeated all of that. Since when was anyone in LoTR ever restricted to doing one thing?

I won't be playing this game, but mainly because of the poor class selection, the theme-park feel it has, because of the quest based only content and because I don't exactly like Turbines art direction. It is the same look as DDO. The graphics are fine, just not the art.

Teiraa

We'll just have to wait another 43 years. Then the copyright for Tolkien's works will expire, and every company can make all Hobbit or Silmarillon MMORPGs they like... 

shadowglyph

This doesn't seem to be a game that would appeal to the MMORPG freaks out there.

This seems to be a game that expects a burst launch and about a 1 - 2 year life at best... after that it will dwindle down and they will come out with a new one.

The whole goal of making this game is profit - they have been pumping out the LOTR titles left and right.

it only makes sense to  create an MMORPG so they can nab as many $ as possible.

 

However; i do not see this game being great ... even good by my standards

Warspine

I think the game will draw customers who likes lord of the rings. I do not think that most people will sit and read about era's and skill system before they buy the game. It's only us mmorpg'ers that will dig into them that deep.
The game will be bought in a huge ammount, but the accualy fun will be decided after release.

Huge success at launge, then we will see how many that will stay. Depends on how fun the game is


______________________________
And no, english isnt my native tounge

SpectralHunter

The time difference between the Hobbit and LotR is around 50-60 years (I forget exactly).  That would have been the perfect era to create a MMO.  The lands were still hostile.  Sauron was consolidating his power.  Instead Turbine went for a very limited timeline (like 9 months) because people recognize LotR.  Seems like a very short sighted decision to me.

Warspine

Yeah i get youre point, I think that you look more at the game, and forthcomming expantions. And he/they think more about recognizing and $

Hellebore

---

Originally posted by Billius8

I agree with the O.P.  Maybe setting the game 50 years before the events of LOTR would have been optimal. 
Remember, this is a game about the player adventurers, not Aragorn, Frodo and Gandalf (with the players hanging out in the background and standing in their shadows or holding up the tails of their robes).

---

The timeline may well be a little limited. But the game isn't soely based upon players following the journey of the fellowship, hense the games sub-title "Shadows of Angmar" and not "Following the Fellowship". I'd presume players divert away from the events of the Fellowship to fight their own war in Angmar - giving Turbine the opportunity to add both unique, unseen content which they have freedom to add things not included in the lore and content based upon familiar events.

 

 

cholla84

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Originally posted by RK-Mara
Have you ever heard of expacks? Turbine has license for all ages and they might make expacks which are placed in other ages.

---

Oh I hope so!

Solon22

---

Originally posted by franksalbe

Let's stay focused people.
1. The time frame they choose to set the game in was a HORRIBLE pick. They have to limit content and the extent of accomplishment that can be done in game so that it doesnt interfere with the periods history.
Turbine should have been smarter they should have taking the game pre-LOTR era. as far back as the Simarillion timeframe when you had so much more going in the world. This was the time of high adventure. Not at the end of an era.
Or they should have taken it post-LOTR era. Where they would have free reigns once again to create new history. something like 30 years after the LOTR incidents would have been good. You could have all set out for fresh new adventures.
2. The fact that they actually took the time to make classes from the warrior and thief tree is down right silly. and the lore master ... LOL ok i wont even go there. Since you cant really do PVP in LOTRO it was perfect for a skill tree implimentation. This game could have so benefitted from a Skill Tree progression. This is one of the few games that because the story line hinders the use of standard PVP practice. We could have been given freedom to mix  and match skills as we see fit. You could still choose to follow a specific skill tree to earn a profession or become any mix of talents. I feel Turbine missed the ball on this one Big Time.
 
these 2 reasons alone make it ok at best. A WOW killer not even close. At best they might hit Eq2 numbers in terms of subs. I dont see them hitting the 1 million mark not time soon if at all. Which is kinda sad for such a large IP. sigh.

---

Your logic is flawed. Much, Much, MUCH more people know the background of the 3rd age, than they did the 1st age of middle-earth. Back then, there wasn't as much going on as you think. Battle was, for the most part, on one single front against Morgoth. In the 3rd age it's everywhere! Although Tolkien doesn't speak of it too much, there is war at the Elven Halls in Mirkwood, Lonely Mountain, Dale, etc. There's war on the fronts of Rohan, and Gondor as well. There's also war in Arnor. If you actually bother reading the Fellowship of the Ring, you'd understand there are many, many evil forces at work that Aragorn and the rangers had long since been fighting to keep the Shire, and other lands safe from harm. With them gone, who will guard these lands? We can!

If they set it Post 3rd age, it would be BORING. All conflict would be over. It would just be a bunch of petty skirmishes here and there. In the 4th age, the lands were free. There wasn't any evil forces with the downfall of Sauron - just a few orcs here and there.

Though you think PvP would bring a lot to the table it really doesn't. It's just the same regurgitated content from other MMO's. Instead, heaven forbid, Turbine thought up something with PvMP.

The time they chose was an excellent choice. Take a step back, and realize that there's much more going on in the background than just the Fellowship's story in the books.

jgomx

Id definitly have to agree with you. Nice post.

Athela

---

Originally posted by franksalbe

1. The time frame they choose to set the game in was a HORRIBLE pick. They have to limit content and the extent of accomplishment that can be done in game so that it doesnt interfere with the periods history.   Since this is based on the Lord of the Rings trilogy BOOKS, they did have to go with the time frame they are using.  This is the familiar story that will draw people in.  Apparently, one of the reasons they changed the name away from Middle Earth Online was to give it focus and the recognition factor LOTRO gives.
Turbine should have been smarter they should have taking the game pre-LOTR era. as far back as the Simarillion timeframe when you had so much more going in the world. This was the time of high adventure. Not at the end of an era.  Not as many people are familiar with the Silmarillion era, and the appeal would not be as great.  The Rings era gives a better framing device for the story to play out.  Notice also that the many games available on other platforms use  this same timeline.
Or they should have taken it post-LOTR era. Where they would have free reigns once again to create new history. something like 30 years after the LOTR incidents would have been good. You could have all set out for fresh new adventures.  Licensing is with the Tolkien estate.  Dodgey whether they would allow a new story beyond J.R.R's to be told, especially in an online format where the human factor (the player) infuses the world with sensibilities probably not intended by anyone.
2. The fact that they actually took the time to make classes from the warrior and thief tree is down right silly. and the lore master ... LOL ok i wont even go there. Since you cant really do PVP in LOTRO it was perfect for a skill tree implimentation. This game could have so benefitted from a Skill Tree progression. This is one of the few games that because the story line hinders the use of standard PVP practice. We could have been given freedom to mix  and match skills as we see fit. You could still choose to follow a specific skill tree to earn a profession or become any mix of talents. I feel Turbine missed the ball on this one Big Time.  You'll want to wait and see how the Traits system plays out as far as changing how the players skills develop.
 
these 2 reasons alone make it ok at best. A WOW killer not even close. At best they might hit Eq2 numbers in terms of subs. I dont see them hitting the 1 million mark not time soon if at all. Which is kinda sad for such a large IP. sigh.   Don't need a WOW-killer, really, just a few Davids to bring down the Goliath.

---

RK-Mara

---

Originally posted by Athela
   Don't need a WOW-killer, really, just a few Davids to bring down the Goliath.

---

And many Davids coming out next year

lordrenan

this topic is very nice

 

Lotro is best game of all

 

sorry im brasilian my inglish is noot good ... lol

SignusM

I haven't read the whole thread, so I apologize if any of this is mentioned.

But the time frame from the game is fine. It's when all the action people actually know about is going on. How many people have really read the Silmarilion? A good amount, but not near as many people as have read the Lord of the Rings or seen the movies. Also, Turbine has no rights to the Silmarilion, and probubly won't while anyone over at Tolkien Enterprises still draws breath.

Now the classes, true I like skills like in SWG before the rehash, but the classes are in no way bad. I got a chance to play at LotROG and there is NOTHING wrong with the Loremaster. It isn't like any other class in any of the 8 MMOs I've played. The only really classic archetypes I detected was the guardian, main tank. All the rest had their own things that set them apart from the norm.

Jackdog

I really don't think the time frame matters  at all. We won't be playing the books, just going around kicking mobs butts 90% + of the time and interacting with the characters less than 10% of the time on some quests. All that matters to me is that the game is fun and entertaining and gives me something to do after the wife goes to bed. If it captures the 1 - 60 fun of WoW then I will be pleased.